Devin Carter to undergo shoulder surgery

[sactowndog]

Is standing reach more important or dynamic reach?

well if by Dynamic Reach you mean how high can you leap I would say it depends by position.

For a center who is tasked with Rim protection, I would look at Dynamic Reach because in shot blocking you are going to leave your feet.

for a wing defender who is primarily closing out on a defender I would look at Standing reach because you don’t want them leaving their feet and getting fouls or driven past.

 

[sactowndog]

If you’re contesting a shot, it’s usually a good idea to jump. I would even go as far as to say ALL of the best defenders this league has seen mastered the art of jumping when contesting shots

EDIT: @sactowndog here’s some good reading on closeouts and has a video at the end to watch as well: https://www.hooperuniversity.com/breakdowns/the-right-way-to-closeout-and-contest

Here’s a quote directly from the article…

I think depending on the angle of approach to the shooter and whether the shooter still has a live dribble wings will certainly leave their feet but if it’s straight on and the player has their dribble available they generally in my experience do not leave their feet and close out with arms up.

 

[sactowndog]

You forgot vertical again!

0.4 BLKs per 40 min vs. 1.1 BLKs per 40 min. As the tape shows, there’s a reason why there’s a difference.

you do realize the vast majority of those blocks are at the rim where I agree like with Malik his hops will help. And yes his wingspan will help deflect in passing lanes. But he will still be challenged by taller players just shooting over him at the 2 and especially the 3.

 

[SLAB]

cracks me up how this place defends someone to the 9’s when he is a King then suddenly nothing he does is good when he is gone.

Davion was able to get over screens better than many guards in the NBA and certainly he and Keon were among the best on the team. If Carter can navigate screens as well as Davion that will be the first step in him becoming a very good NBA defender.

I’ve been saying the same thing about Davion since about a month into his rookie season.

 

[ESP47]

cracks me up how this place defends someone to the 9’s when he is a King then suddenly nothing he does is good when he is gone.

Davion was able to get over screens better than many guards in the NBA and certainly he and Keon were among the best on the team. If Carter can navigate screens as well as Davion that will be the first step in him becoming a very good NBA defender.

I never said nothing he does is good but his defense not only didn't look very impactful on the court but none of the metrics I've looked at have him as anything but below average on that end of the court either.

I rooted for Davion as much as anyone but Keon's defense was impactful from the moment he played big minutes. Davion's was impactful here and there but never on a consistent basis.

 

[The_Jamal]

cracks me up how this place defends someone to the 9’s when he is a King then suddenly nothing he does is good when he is gone.

Davion was able to get over screens better than many guards in the NBA and certainly he and Keon were among the best on the team. If Carter can navigate screens as well as Davion that will be the first step in him becoming a very good NBA defender.

I called Davion one of the worst players in basketball getting regular minutes, until his last 25 game stint last season. Does that count as me defending him to the 9's?

 

[PorchSurfin]

the quoted part has zero credibility. Mitchell can stay in front of people better than most NBA players.

Staying in front of people is a lot different than being able to contest their shots. Davion stayed in front of Klay but Klay was able to rise up and hit a shot over him to win a game because Davion was too short, not long enough, and couldn't Jump high enough to contest.

 

[twslam07]

I think depending on the angle of approach to the shooter and whether the shooter still has a live dribble wings will certainly leave their feet but if it’s straight on and the player has their dribble available they generally in my experience do not leave their feet and close out with arms up.

No, you sprint to the close out and jump with them after they have left their feet. You don’t stay on the ground and let the player jump over you and shoot.

 

[twslam07]

you do realize the vast majority of those blocks are at the rim where I agree like with Malik his hops will help. And yes his wingspan will help deflect in passing lanes. But he will still be challenged by taller players just shooting over him at the 2 and especially the 3.

You do realize that it’s much more rare to block jump shots, right? The trajectory of the ball goes much higher in the air than when shooting at the rim. I think that goes without saying but even then, the video still shows him blocking jump shots despite his smaller standing reach. He even blocked a jump shot while jumping behind a Clingan screen. How could that be? It’s because of his instincts, timing, and vertical (which is much better than Mitchell’s).

 

[sactowndog]

I’ve been saying the same thing about Davion since about a month into his rookie season.

seriously? You really think I was referring to you? When have you ever been all in for whatever move Monte makes?

 

[sactowndog]

No, you sprint to the close out and jump with them after they have left their feet. You don’t stay on the ground and let the player jump over you and shoot.

I think you should become an NBA coach and tell those wings they are going it all wrong. Because I see guys close out to the shooter and not leave their feet quite often.

 

[sactowndog]

I called Davion one of the worst players in basketball getting regular minutes, until his last 25 game stint last season. Does that count as me defending him to the 9's?

you aren’t Slab and I would bet money I could find positive comments of Davion’s defense against Steph in the 7 game play-off series. But I didn’t have you in the always in on defending Monte bucket either.

Davion’s problem is not that he was terrible. It was that his stature limited his ability to guard anyone but 1’s. With Fox and Monk his fit on the Kings was terrible. The fit problem was completely on Monte and what a number of us said at the time he was drafted. Given the wings still on the board it was a particularly bad draft pick.

on another topic what did we bet on? I thought it was where the Kings finished but pending free agency. Given DeRozen I think the Kings will do better this year.

 

[SLAB]

seriously? You really think I was referring to you? When have you ever been all in for whatever move Monte makes?

Demar DeRozan probably. Lol

 

[The_Jamal]

you aren’t Slab and I would bet money I could find positive comments of Davion’s defense against Steph in the 7 game play-off series. But I didn’t have you in the always in on defending Monte bucket either.

Davion’s problem is not that he was terrible. It was that his stature limited his ability to guard anyone but 1’s. With Fox and Monk his fit on the Kings was terrible. The fit problem was completely on Monte and what a number of us said at the time he was drafted. Given the wings still on the board it was a particularly bad draft pick.

on another topic what did we bet on? I thought it was where the Kings finished but pending free agency. Given DeRozen I think the Kings will do better this year.

I'm pretty sure it was Devin Carter being a rotation player year 1. Something like 42 games 12+MPG to qualify as a "rotation player"?

We didn't have a win total bet though. I'm sure we'll figure something out though; gotta keep the charity bet tradition going.

Also, Davion did play great defense on Steph in that series. Even if his shot wasn't falling, I think it was probably a mistake to take him out the rotation in game 6 and game 7 from Brown.

 

[twslam07]

I think you should become an NBA coach and tell those wings they are going it all wrong. Because I see guys close out to the shooter and not leave their feet quite often.

Yeah, don’t leave your feet if they don’t jump and shoot. But if they jump, jump with them to better contest the shot. It’s pretty straightforward.

 

[sactowndog]

I'm pretty sure it was Devin Carter being a rotation player year 1. Something like 42 games 12+MPG to qualify as a "rotation player"?

We didn't have a win total bet though. I'm sure we'll figure something out though; gotta keep the charity bet tradition going.

Also, Davion did play great defense on Steph in that series. Even if his shot wasn't falling, I think it was probably a mistake to take him out the rotation in game 6 and game 7 from Brown.

okay well given the injury I am assuming the bet is canceled.

as to a win total bet I’m not sure what my thoughts are currently with DeRozen. It could go very well or very poorly depending on his fit with Sabonis. So currently kind of hard to bet as I have no idea what the win total will be. I certainly wouldn’t touch any number in Vegas. Way too much potential variation in both directions.

As to Davion agree. I’m glad he didn’t end up in the west where Fox has to face him multiple times.

 

[The_Jamal]

okay well given the injury I am assuming the bet is canceled.

as to a win total bet I’m not sure what my thoughts are currently with DeRozen. It could go very well or very poorly depending on his fit with Sabonis. So currently kind of hard to bet as I have no idea what the win total will be. I certainly wouldn’t touch any number in Vegas. Way too much potential variation in both directions.

As to Davion agree. I’m glad he didn’t end up in the west where Fox has to face him multiple times.

Assuming no other major moves, I'm guessing the line will be set around 45.5-46.5

That seems about right. Pretty sure we were around 42.5 last year and adding DDR is a huge upgrade. And if the national narrative on the Kings "not addressing defense" is to be believed, they vastly underrate what a full season of Keon will be for our defense.

I think the upside for 50+ wins is here and even in a worst case scenario, below 40-41 wins seems unlikely. Which puts us firmly in that 5-9 range in the west imo

 

[ESP47]

Assuming no other major moves, I'm guessing the line will be set around 45.5-46.5

That seems about right. Pretty sure we were around 42.5 last year and adding DDR is a huge upgrade. And if the national narrative on the Kings "not addressing defense" is to be believed, they vastly underrate what a full season of Keon will be for our defense.

I think the upside for 50+ wins is here and even in a worst case scenario, below 40-41 wins seems unlikely. Which puts us firmly in that 5-9 range in the west imo

Do you remember what the DRTG ranking was before and after Keon started playing routine minutes?

I'm going to guess that they win 49 games as long as the main guys stay relatively healthy.

 

[The_Jamal]

Do you remember what the DRTG ranking was before and after Keon started playing routine minutes?

I'm going to guess that they win 49 games as long as the main guys stay relatively healthy.

Something like 21st in DRtg before Keon, ended the year 14th and Keon as a starter we were 3rd in DRtg from that point of the season till the end of the year.

He had a truly absurd impact last year. Davion playing well of course was a big part of that, but those were the only 2 major rotation changes.

 

[sactowndog]

Assuming no other major moves, I'm guessing the line will be set around 45.5-46.5

That seems about right. Pretty sure we were around 42.5 last year and adding DDR is a huge upgrade. And if the national narrative on the Kings "not addressing defense" is to be believed, they vastly underrate what a full season of Keon will be for our defense.

I think the upside for 50+ wins is here and even in a worst case scenario, below 40-41 wins seems unlikely. Which puts us firmly in that 5-9 range in the west imo

you have a narrower potential variation than I have I could see 38 or 39 wins if the fit goes poorly. It’s the fit with Sabonis I am most concerned about.

 

[PorchSurfin]

seriously? You really think I was referring to you? When have you ever been all in for whatever move Monte makes?

I really get so annoyed with your posts it's uncanny how one man can be so smug and self important.

I would love to make a bet with you too. Just because you are always so wrong about things yet act like you are so smart.

I'll be happy to be the first person to make that bet. My bet would be the Kings finish higher in both win total and win placement from the previous year. I got $25 on the bet into a pool.

 

[The_Jamal]

you have a narrower potential variation than I have I could see 38 or 39 wins if the fit goes poorly. It’s the fit with Sabonis I am most concerned about.

Outside of a massive injury to our big 3, this is a fairly pessimistic view of this squad (go figure).

I very seriously doubt that if relatively healthy, this squad that's more talented than last year drops by 8 wins

 

[Padrino]

Outside of a massive injury to our big 3, this is a fairly pessimistic view of this squad (go figure).

I very seriously doubt that if relatively healthy, this squad that's more talented than last year drops by 8 wins

Yeah, that certainly seems implausible without factoring the possibility of major injuries into the equation. The west will continue to be the better conference, but it will be weaker next season. And guys like LeBron James and Kevin Durant are only getting older and creakier. It's highly unlikely that the Kings fall out of the play-in race altogether and finish below .500 after improving this off-season. There's plenty of room for nuance in a discussion about this roster's capabilities, but there's a difference between pessimism and outright nihilism.

 

[Jdbraver137]

Yeah, that certainly seems implausible without factoring the possibility of major injuries into the equation. The west will continue to be the better conference, but it will be weaker next season. And guys like LeBron James and Kevin Durant are only getting older and creakier. It's highly unlikely that the Kings fall out of the play-in race altogether and finish below .500 after improving this off-season. There's plenty of room for nuance in a discussion about this roster's capabilities, but there's a difference between pessimism and outright nihilism.

What you should ask yourselves is whether this team is better than last year. That is a resounding yes. Particularly because the offseason isn’t over. Just like everyone roasting Monte before he got derozan. At least wait to judge.

 

[sactowndog]

Outside of a massive injury to our big 3, this is a fairly pessimistic view of this squad (go figure).

I very seriously doubt that if relatively healthy, this squad that's more talented than last year drops by 8 wins

generally when building a range of outcomes your lower bound should be a pessimistic view. I did not say it was my expected outcome.

 

[sactowndog]

Yeah, that certainly seems implausible without factoring the possibility of major injuries into the equation. The west will continue to be the better conference, but it will be weaker next season. And guys like LeBron James and Kevin Durant are only getting older and creakier. It's highly unlikely that the Kings fall out of the play-in race altogether and finish below .500 after improving this off-season. There's plenty of room for nuance in a discussion about this roster's capabilities, but there's a difference between pessimism and outright nihilism.

so what part of lower range vs expected outcome do you guys not get.

the lower range view (by definition pessimistic) goes something like as follows:

1) DeRozan ball stopping tendencies cut into the flow of the Kings offense and we move to more ISO ball

2) Teams don’t respect Demar’s 3 point shot like Barne’s shot and help off him onto Sabonis.

3) lack of length on the wing continues to be a big issue for us against Pels, Houston and a now healthy Griz team.

4) we miss Davion’s point of attack defense more than expected

 

[midtowner]

The real alternative to the DeRozan acquisition is rebuilding. I am stoked that the Kings are going for it.

Most of the criticism of the move is rooted in a belief that Sabonis is overrated/can’t be part of a winning playoff squad. But the Kings are already all in on that front.

I am down to quibble about fit - because I obviously have a Kings’ obsession problem. But the conversation needs to start with the Fox, Keegan, Sabonis and DDR being able to go for 20+ on any given night. Plus, Monk if he’s coming off the bench.

At the end of the season, the bench was scoring nothing, and a bad Fox game meant that the Kings were toast.

 

[The_Jamal]

generally when building a range of outcomes your lower bound should be a pessimistic view. I did not say it was my expected outcome.

Not really. There's not a whole lot of value in having like a 16 spread for your "range". Because if we're saying 38 is a lower end proj, then 54-55 has to be the upper range in that set.

 

[Tetsujin]

Upper Range: 82-0
Lower range: 0-82

 

[iowamcnabb]

Yeah, that certainly seems implausible without factoring the possibility of major injuries into the equation. The west will continue to be the better conference, but it will be weaker next season. And guys like LeBron James and Kevin Durant are only getting older and creakier. It's highly unlikely that the Kings fall out of the play-in race altogether and finish below .500 after improving this off-season. There's plenty of room for nuance in a discussion about this roster's capabilities, but there's a difference between pessimism and outright nihilism.

I agree that we will most likely be better for the following reasons:

1- DDR is a big talent upgrade
2- what does a full year of the end of the season defense look like?
3- Keegan Murray improvement
4- on paper our bench is better than last year.

Having said that, I’m not sure the West is weaker. The only team we know for sure is worse is LAC. They aren’t going to fall to the bottom though with two elite scorers surrounded by elite defenders, rim protection and high level coaching. The Nuggets could be worse but they had a weird year anyway last season and I’m a big fan of the additions of Saric and Holmes on the bench. They will also be hungry after last season’s failure. Memphis is going to be a big problem. Injury concerns are there but they have just as good of a chance at 50 wins as we do. The Spurs could make an OKC from two years ago like jump. Wemby looks insane this summer, CB/Barnes steady the ship and they prob will actually try to win this year. Houston will prob make a big trade at the deadline and if the Suns are flailing I’d imagine it will be for Durant. It’s going to be a nutso season.