Players that I would target with the 9th pick:
- Thread starter bajaden
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I've been watching Besiktas games lately and if they aren't willing to potentially let Sengun stay overseas to develop I don't like his chances under Luke. Holy cow his defense is bad. I can't see Walton playing him much if at all and at least early if they are trying to win he might have a legit gripe. Sengun should get better over time but he doesn't seem to have much understanding on that end of the floor and at times watches the game go by.
That's arguable in that 9-11 range though. There is little separation unless one of those top 5 or 6 drop. After that it's anyones guess who BPA is. I've seen Wagner go as high as 6 and there is probably a decent argument for it to be honest. Now to me you take Barnes if he drops over anyone but he has amazing physical tools that shouldn't be dropping in a draft like this one IMO. If you're looking for upside especially.
In that clip, yes. I just picked it because it shows his defensive versatility and some of his offensive skillset. There's a lot more footage of him online. More often I see him getting blocks when guys try to back him down and he just throws it back in their face. Everything is subjective though and there's no point arguing who's right or wrong because there's no way to know right now. I just want people to seek out the footage and make up their own mind and forget what the mock draft sites think about anybody. There could easily be a surprise like Giannis buried in the players Kings fans are writing off as not top 10 worthy.
For my part, I wouldn't touch Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey, or Kai Jones anywhere near the top 10 and I think Scottie Barnes is being way overrated for a wing player who can't shoot at all from anywhere on the floor. Even as a defensive specialist you need to be able to score to be more than a situational role-player. The Rondae Hollis-Jeffersons of the world have a place in the league but I don't think you need a top 10 pick to get a guy like that. But those are just my hot takes.
I also think it's time to throw out the idea of fit once and for all. We've sucked for too long to be worried about building a great team on paper. We just need to draft the best player we can, period, even if that's another PG or SG. But anyway, I've already said enough on the topic. Bajaden listed Garuba on his short list so I'm sure we'll get his take soon and he's a guy I've only recently started researching so perhaps I've let my enthusiasm get away from me a bit. For the things I'm looking at though, Usman is checking almost all of the boxes so talk of him being available in the 20s even in a deep draft like this is baffling to me. Paul Millsap is a 4x All-Star. That's not my comparison, but isn't that type of player worthy of a #9 pick?
For my part, I wouldn't touch Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey, or Kai Jones anywhere near the top 10 and I think Scottie Barnes is being way overrated for a wing player who can't shoot at all from anywhere on the floor. Even as a defensive specialist you need to be able to score to be more than a situational role-player. The Rondae Hollis-Jeffersons of the world have a place in the league but I don't think you need a top 10 pick to get a guy like that. But those are just my hot takes.
I also think it's time to throw out the idea of fit once and for all. We've sucked for too long to be worried about building a great team on paper. We just need to draft the best player we can, period, even if that's another PG or SG. But anyway, I've already said enough on the topic. Bajaden listed Garuba on his short list so I'm sure we'll get his take soon and he's a guy I've only recently started researching so perhaps I've let my enthusiasm get away from me a bit. For the things I'm looking at though, Usman is checking almost all of the boxes so talk of him being available in the 20s even in a deep draft like this is baffling to me. Paul Millsap is a 4x All-Star. That's not my comparison, but isn't that type of player worthy of a #9 pick?
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This is where people could be making a huge mistake on Barnes because he can run point. The typical tweener wings that can't shoot, can't create, can't run an offense are a different beast altogether. He's got bust potential for sure but right now being able to defend and run a team while being able to play PF, which he will be able to, is closer to what you see out of a Ben Simmons, Draymond Green, or Giannis, not a RHJ. He could very well be the next Anthony Randolph but the question has to be raised whether the modern game wouldn't be way better for someone like him also. I do think he has a much higher motor and potential than Randolph though. To me he's the best gamble guy past 6-8 because if he does learn to shoot he's a major addition to any team and potentially a star in the making. Worst case he's a cog to a teams defense which isn't a bad thing for where a team like Sac sits currently. They need players like him probably more than anyone above them right now.
I haven't had a chance (and probably won't) to see actual game film of Garuba, but his profile looks a lot like Biyombo as an undersized athletic big man. Both played in the Liga ACB, and their numbers are pretty similar. Garuba seems to be a somewhat better passer and will shoot threes (but isn't very good at it), Biyombo was a much better shotblocker, and the rest of the stats (MPG, scoring, rebounding, 2 PT FG%, age) were basically a push.
So, if the question is, should we use the #9 pick on Biyombo v.2, the answer is probably no, not in a draft like this one. There are bound to be players in this draft who are going to move the needle more than Garuba. I'd rather take a chance at finding one of those impact players than draft a guy who turns out to be a rotation big who doesn't start half his games and doesn't really do much to get his teams to the playoffs (2 appearances in 10 years for Biyombo). In the 20s, when you're looking at already good teams who could use a defensive big off the bench and the likely future stars are already picked through, sure, Garuba is a nice pick. But we have to take a bigger swing for the fences at #9.
So, if the question is, should we use the #9 pick on Biyombo v.2, the answer is probably no, not in a draft like this one. There are bound to be players in this draft who are going to move the needle more than Garuba. I'd rather take a chance at finding one of those impact players than draft a guy who turns out to be a rotation big who doesn't start half his games and doesn't really do much to get his teams to the playoffs (2 appearances in 10 years for Biyombo). In the 20s, when you're looking at already good teams who could use a defensive big off the bench and the likely future stars are already picked through, sure, Garuba is a nice pick. But we have to take a bigger swing for the fences at #9.
My biggest issue with some of these prospects like Kai Jones, Sengun and Garuba is just the positional value of a big man if he's not going to be a generational type player. Like even if we lose Holmes this off-season, Im confident we can get 80% of him back in someone like Noel/Theis or even go a different direction with a spacer like Kelly O. I feel like that's essentially your hope with these back-half lotto big men; you're hoping they turn into a Turner/Holmes/Theis/Kelly O/Noel type C as a top 15-25 center.
It'd be one thing if there were no quality wing/guard prospects, but that's certainly not the case. There's gonna be SOME quality wing that's there at the 9/10 slot. Even still, I'd rather take a flier on a riskier wing prospect than grab a big man who you're hoping is the next Turner/Holmes impact level.
It'd be one thing if there were no quality wing/guard prospects, but that's certainly not the case. There's gonna be SOME quality wing that's there at the 9/10 slot. Even still, I'd rather take a flier on a riskier wing prospect than grab a big man who you're hoping is the next Turner/Holmes impact level.
If the question is should we use the #9 pick on Biyombo v.2, then we are in agreement, the answer is no. I think we are also in agreement that there will be better players available for the Kings at 9 than Garuba. And if we keep Holmes I think it will be hard for him to get on the court, which will hurt his development. But will Garuba be the next Biyombo? I don't know. It's definitely possible. But I don't think it's as simple as saying there are some similarities between him and Biyombo, therefore his outlook is Biyombo.
That's true. But I really don't have a lot to go on, and the stats and the measurables and the overall game seem very similar. Nobody knows how Garuba will turn out, but the most recent and apt comparison seemed to me to be Biyombo, and when I was looking up Euro stats to compare them I found that I'm far from the only person who has made the same comparison. It's certainly not going to be perfect, but in the end it's probably a better gauge of his future value than if you compared him to, say, Tim Duncan. That wouldn't make any sense.
As has been mentioned above, big men that aren't generational-level big men are not exactly a hot commodity in today's game, and until the pendulum swings back in that direction, players like Garuba who play D but don't seem to have much offensive game are likely to have a somewhat depressed value. And one thing that worries me a bit, is that as a guy who is going to make his mark as a defensive big man, Garuba's block numbers are not great. Maybe it's because he affects the offense in other ways, maybe it's because he's such a great shotblocker that nobody will challenge him, but it's also possible that shotblocking is just not one of his great strengths. I'd like to have had a chance to watch full games to get a better feel for that, but European games are not the easiest thing to find on TV out here.
As has been mentioned above, big men that aren't generational-level big men are not exactly a hot commodity in today's game, and until the pendulum swings back in that direction, players like Garuba who play D but don't seem to have much offensive game are likely to have a somewhat depressed value. And one thing that worries me a bit, is that as a guy who is going to make his mark as a defensive big man, Garuba's block numbers are not great. Maybe it's because he affects the offense in other ways, maybe it's because he's such a great shotblocker that nobody will challenge him, but it's also possible that shotblocking is just not one of his great strengths. I'd like to have had a chance to watch full games to get a better feel for that, but European games are not the easiest thing to find on TV out here.
Exactly, and you can also typically find similar players in the mold of a Kai Jones in particular later in the draft or even undrafted. Nick Claxton says hi. Those tweener PF/C players are the worst tweeners you can get right now. For every Christian Wood that's being used like crazy by his franchise you get a G-league full of those types with their futures being highlighted by the potential of a camp invite or a 10 day contract. This is a draft where players going to the right team is going to matter big time.
I've been watching some Sengun and Garuba games lately and while he could definitely develop into something more, Garuba is a role player and looks the part at the moment. And I don't think comparing someone to a player that's lasted as long as Biyombo has is some kind of insult haha. I think that comp is pretty good on a few levels to be honest. Guess what, if anyone the Kings draft has that kind of staying power then that means they did very well for themselves. The major difference with Biyombo is obviously length but maybe Garuba develops into a Charles Oakley type in time. I think he could certainly fit on the Kings for sure but yeah, value, value, value. The Kings went dropper last year and it came up combo G. They still badly need potential on the wing moving forward. They tried to swing for Bey in a deal but couldn't get it done. This might be the year to get it done while not having to move your former number 2 pick. Wagner, Moody, Barnes (crosses fingers), somebody will be there at that pick.
And never underestimate positional value relative to where the game is at currently. Luka was never not going to be a top pick and plays a position and a style that the league is built for right now. Sengun's argument for being drafted that high is he could be the next Jokic. Maybe, however unlikely considering bigs like that don't come along too often. Jokic is every bit as unique for a big as Dirk was in his time and you see how many chops at the block it took for him. Even so, Sengun has to go into a situation where a team will give him that opportunity and make use of the definite talent he has. He certainly has talent and skill nobody should argue that and yes, for the right team maybe that's a top 10 worthy gamble that will big time pay off. Look at Domantas Sabonis who is probably closer to a good comp than Jokic is. Sabonis found the right team but the question still remains if he's going to take that team anywhere at the center spot.
The Kings offense is fairly well accounted for at the moment and potentially long term if Bagley sticks. If you are a skill/non-athlete/non-defense big the options in team build are very narrow if you are looking to win. And I think Denver has a pretty decent team around Jokic defensively too. We already know Walton is going to go with role player toughness over talent, that's a pretty big hurdle for a big like Sengun and there is no way you can trust this franchise. Papa G, Giles, Bagley, this list should stop growing until this franchise can at least prove they can make it right with that Bagley pick. Richard Jefferson made a statement in that last Suns/Nuggets game about the Suns building through the draft. He said sometimes it's not a bad thing to draft for need like they did with Mikal Bridges. I think it depends on the draft of course but this looks like it might be shaking out that way. Especially for Sac who has a lot of spots and shots covered but NOTHING on the wing long term with legit value/potential.
The Kings offense is fairly well accounted for at the moment and potentially long term if Bagley sticks. If you are a skill/non-athlete/non-defense big the options in team build are very narrow if you are looking to win. And I think Denver has a pretty decent team around Jokic defensively too. We already know Walton is going to go with role player toughness over talent, that's a pretty big hurdle for a big like Sengun and there is no way you can trust this franchise. Papa G, Giles, Bagley, this list should stop growing until this franchise can at least prove they can make it right with that Bagley pick. Richard Jefferson made a statement in that last Suns/Nuggets game about the Suns building through the draft. He said sometimes it's not a bad thing to draft for need like they did with Mikal Bridges. I think it depends on the draft of course but this looks like it might be shaking out that way. Especially for Sac who has a lot of spots and shots covered but NOTHING on the wing long term with legit value/potential.
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My post Luke assessment is to draft basketball players not athletes. All the length, speed, hops, and athleticism in the world won't help you if you don't know what to do with it. I would also caution people away from thinking scorers are the only players who matter. If you're hoping to land a future MVP you probably need a guy who can put up 30 points a night but even those guys don't win championships by themselves. You still need 4 other guys who will grab rebounds, box out, set screens, make smart cuts off the ball, close out on shooters without fouling or taking themselves out of the play, and the list goes on from there. There's a lot of ways a player can help you win.
I like him but there's not much evidence he's going to be a star if that's what people are thinking. He could certainly develop but the good thing about him is his floor is pretty high since he does play defense and has a super solid physical profile. The concern is whether he can he play center full time since the PF spot is of so little value. He's obviously undersized but I do think he can play significant minutes at C.
Yeah Im more convinced that Barnes is the absolute perfect mesh of fit and upside. He's gonna be a 3/4 flex wing, allows Harrison Barnes to play close to full time at the 4, adds elite big wing playmaking (which there's like...6 guys that could qualify for that tag) and has legitimate 1-4 defensive versatility. It's almost like he was designed to play next to Fox/Hali.
Usman Garuba: PF/C, 6'9", 230 Lb's, 7'3" Wingspan, Age 19.3 years old, Real Madrid.
18 mpg - 5.8 ppg - 46.1% fgp - 33.8% 3pp - 67.6% ftp - 5.4 rpg - 1.1 apg - 0.45 Blks
OK, lets get one thing straight from the beginning, Garuba is not Biyomba. Other than they look similar in height and weight, the comparison ends there. Garuba joined the youth academy at age 11. He started his pro career with Real Madrid B at age16 years and 7 months, becoming the 3rd youngest player to play for Real Madrid behind Roberto Nunez, and Luka Doncic. Yep, Real Madrid was Doncic's team and they play in what's considered the 2nd toughest professional league in the world behind the NBA. Garuba won the rising star award at age 17, and at age 14 while playing in the U17 European championships against players older than him, he was named the league's MVP.
Garuba has been playing professional ball since 2017, and became a starter on Sept 29th, becoming the youngest starter in the history of Real Madrid, passing Luka Doncic. He's listed at 6'9" in shoes and is an above average athlete, especially with foot speed and lateral quickness. He's considered one of the best defenders in the European League. His ability to close on help defense was surprising. His quickness from the perimeter to help under the basket was startling. He also has excellent instincts in that regard. If I were to criticize, it would be that sometimes he over helps. I seriously doubt he'll become a foul magnet in the NBA trying to block shots. He's not going from college to the NBA, he's going from the 2nd best league in the world to the NBA.
In the games I saw he defended everyone from the PG to the Center, and did it surprisingly well. I think we have to remember that first, he's only 19 years old, and second, he was playing against the best players in Europe. What kind of stats would he have put up against college players? So while his stats aren't gaudy, lets remember who he was playing against. In 18 minutes a game he averaged 5.4 rebounds, but project that out to per 36 and it adds up to 9.0 rebounds a game.
So while he could probably play right now defensively, he's has some work to do offensively. That's not to say he's a total wash offensively. He has a terrific motor and runs the floor like a deer. Give him 25 minutes a game and he'll probably get you 10 to 12 pt's on put backs and alley oops. His post game is a work in progress, but he does show good patience in the post using drop steps and pump fakes. I didn't see much of a mid-range shot, but he does take an occasional 3 pt shot and shot 33.8%, which while not horrible, needs to get better.
Overall his shooting form isn't broken, but needs polishing. His release tends to be a bit different from time to time, and a little more arc on his shot would help as well. Nothing a good shot doctor couldn't fix. Frankly, I think he has fairly high floor, and a fairly high ceiling. Some scouts have called him a poor man's Draymon Green. Not quite sure I see that, but it is a compliment, and Garuba has shown an ability to make good passes. Thats another thing that surprised me. I saw him make instant decisions on the fly with touch passes that led to easy baskets. Of course I saw him turn the ball over as well, but once again, he just turned 19 in March.
In general, he looks like a diamond in the rough that simply needs some refining. His overall skill set is superior by far to Biyombo's as is his feel for the game and his overall BBIQ. He's not my first choice, but he certainly wouldn't be a bad choice, and would be some insurance against Holmes finding another home. Like Holmes, he's a physical player and probably has more long range potential, and that's not a knock on Holmes. If he can polish his game, I see him as a PF who can play some small ball center. Although only 6'9", his 7'3" wingspan allows him to play taller than he is.
18 mpg - 5.8 ppg - 46.1% fgp - 33.8% 3pp - 67.6% ftp - 5.4 rpg - 1.1 apg - 0.45 Blks
OK, lets get one thing straight from the beginning, Garuba is not Biyomba. Other than they look similar in height and weight, the comparison ends there. Garuba joined the youth academy at age 11. He started his pro career with Real Madrid B at age16 years and 7 months, becoming the 3rd youngest player to play for Real Madrid behind Roberto Nunez, and Luka Doncic. Yep, Real Madrid was Doncic's team and they play in what's considered the 2nd toughest professional league in the world behind the NBA. Garuba won the rising star award at age 17, and at age 14 while playing in the U17 European championships against players older than him, he was named the league's MVP.
Garuba has been playing professional ball since 2017, and became a starter on Sept 29th, becoming the youngest starter in the history of Real Madrid, passing Luka Doncic. He's listed at 6'9" in shoes and is an above average athlete, especially with foot speed and lateral quickness. He's considered one of the best defenders in the European League. His ability to close on help defense was surprising. His quickness from the perimeter to help under the basket was startling. He also has excellent instincts in that regard. If I were to criticize, it would be that sometimes he over helps. I seriously doubt he'll become a foul magnet in the NBA trying to block shots. He's not going from college to the NBA, he's going from the 2nd best league in the world to the NBA.
In the games I saw he defended everyone from the PG to the Center, and did it surprisingly well. I think we have to remember that first, he's only 19 years old, and second, he was playing against the best players in Europe. What kind of stats would he have put up against college players? So while his stats aren't gaudy, lets remember who he was playing against. In 18 minutes a game he averaged 5.4 rebounds, but project that out to per 36 and it adds up to 9.0 rebounds a game.
So while he could probably play right now defensively, he's has some work to do offensively. That's not to say he's a total wash offensively. He has a terrific motor and runs the floor like a deer. Give him 25 minutes a game and he'll probably get you 10 to 12 pt's on put backs and alley oops. His post game is a work in progress, but he does show good patience in the post using drop steps and pump fakes. I didn't see much of a mid-range shot, but he does take an occasional 3 pt shot and shot 33.8%, which while not horrible, needs to get better.
Overall his shooting form isn't broken, but needs polishing. His release tends to be a bit different from time to time, and a little more arc on his shot would help as well. Nothing a good shot doctor couldn't fix. Frankly, I think he has fairly high floor, and a fairly high ceiling. Some scouts have called him a poor man's Draymon Green. Not quite sure I see that, but it is a compliment, and Garuba has shown an ability to make good passes. Thats another thing that surprised me. I saw him make instant decisions on the fly with touch passes that led to easy baskets. Of course I saw him turn the ball over as well, but once again, he just turned 19 in March.
In general, he looks like a diamond in the rough that simply needs some refining. His overall skill set is superior by far to Biyombo's as is his feel for the game and his overall BBIQ. He's not my first choice, but he certainly wouldn't be a bad choice, and would be some insurance against Holmes finding another home. Like Holmes, he's a physical player and probably has more long range potential, and that's not a knock on Holmes. If he can polish his game, I see him as a PF who can play some small ball center. Although only 6'9", his 7'3" wingspan allows him to play taller than he is.
I concur with this assessment. Good stuff Bajaden! 
I hope you're able to take it easy now that your moving is done. I really had no knowledge of Garuba until a few weeks ago but the more footage I watch of him the sharper his "diamond in the rough" potential comes into focus for me. Nobody is a sure thing of course. He does fumble passes at times and he needs to tighten the mechanics on his jump shot like you said but he's far more than just a bruiser. The foundation is there for a multi-dimensional player. He's a guy I'd be willing to gamble on considering his pedigree is so impressive and he excels in areas where we need A LOT of help.
I hope you're able to take it easy now that your moving is done. I really had no knowledge of Garuba until a few weeks ago but the more footage I watch of him the sharper his "diamond in the rough" potential comes into focus for me. Nobody is a sure thing of course. He does fumble passes at times and he needs to tighten the mechanics on his jump shot like you said but he's far more than just a bruiser. The foundation is there for a multi-dimensional player. He's a guy I'd be willing to gamble on considering his pedigree is so impressive and he excels in areas where we need A LOT of help.Agree on Wagner, but don't be surprised if Scottie Barnes jumps up into the top four. There are a lot of teams that really like him, and apparently he's been working on his shot, and it's looking good. Another player that could make a jump up is Davion Mitchell. He's a bit undersized at 6'2", but if one of the top four teams needs a PG, and Sugg's is already gone, they might grab Mitchell. He may be the best defensive player in the draft, and the dude can shoot the ball as well (44.7% 3pp). The only knock on him is his age. He's almost 23 years old. Other than that, what's not to like.
I'm assuming that you think Kuminga is the player to fall in those scenarios. Still, I'm having a tough time believing that four players (Barnes, Mitchell, and two more) will jump Kuminga and let us pick him at #9. Because, wow, that would be a gift. A bigger no-brainer than Haliburton at #12 - more risk, but still more of a no-brainer.
I think this could be a wild draft so who knows. Just speculation on my part, but I do know that Barnes is really liked by a lot of teams. Another player that could surprise and jump into the top 7 is Jalen Johnson. I hope not, because I would love for the Kings to get a shot at him, but he's a very talented player with an already NBA body, great size and length, and a very high skill level. Anyway, there are a lot of rumors, and some of them could just be smoke screen.