Tyrese Haliburton
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
I'm not complaining. At all. 
But I think it's a classic case of:
1. Front offices out thinking themselves. See Vlade and the Luka decision.
2. The low jump shot, average athleticism, and lack of bulk. So they likely had him rated as a subpar shooter, one level at best scorer, and a passer who would mostly move the ball on the perimeter--basically a taller Cojo.
3. They underrated the brains, the shot (which is aided by the brains), his athleticism (meaning he's more athletic than what can be seen on tape), and the 6'5 height and 7 feet wingspan (he plays big--unlike Bags).
4. And like Curry and Russ, I think his athleticism is going to tick up once he's has a year or two of offseason training. Should be a consistent three level scorer by year three. Currently, his scoring, at the rim, in half court sets is a by product of opponents playing him for the pass or his jump shot. Should be able to muscle through eventually. Dude's IQ is off the charts.
Add on: I've watched a decent amount of Wolves games. Edwards athleticism is shocking at times. Dude is a next level athlete--and it's functional. He has warts, however. Is mostly a black hole right now and his vision is poor. If the Kings were picking #1, without the benefit of hindsight, I think they would pick Edwards. With hindsight, no way they do so..
But I think it's a classic case of:
1. Front offices out thinking themselves. See Vlade and the Luka decision.
2. The low jump shot, average athleticism, and lack of bulk. So they likely had him rated as a subpar shooter, one level at best scorer, and a passer who would mostly move the ball on the perimeter--basically a taller Cojo.
3. They underrated the brains, the shot (which is aided by the brains), his athleticism (meaning he's more athletic than what can be seen on tape), and the 6'5 height and 7 feet wingspan (he plays big--unlike Bags).
4. And like Curry and Russ, I think his athleticism is going to tick up once he's has a year or two of offseason training. Should be a consistent three level scorer by year three. Currently, his scoring, at the rim, in half court sets is a by product of opponents playing him for the pass or his jump shot. Should be able to muscle through eventually. Dude's IQ is off the charts.
Add on: I've watched a decent amount of Wolves games. Edwards athleticism is shocking at times. Dude is a next level athlete--and it's functional. He has warts, however. Is mostly a black hole right now and his vision is poor. If the Kings were picking #1, without the benefit of hindsight, I think they would pick Edwards. With hindsight, no way they do so..
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I'm not complaining. At all.
But I think it's a classic case of:
1. Front offices out thinking themselves. See Vlade and the Luka decision.
2. The low jump shot, average athleticism, and lack of bulk. So they likely had him rated as a subpar shooter, one level at best scorer, and a passer who would mostly move the ball on the perimeter--basically a taller Cojo.
3. They underrated the brains, the shot (which is aided by the brains), his athleticism (meaning he's more athletic than what can be seen on tape), and the 6'5 height and 7 feet wingspan (he plays big--unlike Bags).
4. And like Curry and Russ, I think his athleticism is going to tick up once he's has a year or two of offseason training. Should be a consistent three level scorer by year three. Currently, his scoring, at the rim, in half court sets is a by product of opponents playing him for the pass or his jump shot. Should be able to muscle through eventually. Dude's IQ is off the charts.
Add on: I've watched a decent amount of Wolves games. Edwards athleticism is shocking at times. Dude is a next level athlete--and it's functional. He has warts, however. Is mostly a black hole right now and his vision is poor. If the Kings were picking #1, without the benefit of hindsight, I think they would pick Edwards. With hindsight, no way they do so..
But I think it's a classic case of:
1. Front offices out thinking themselves. See Vlade and the Luka decision.
2. The low jump shot, average athleticism, and lack of bulk. So they likely had him rated as a subpar shooter, one level at best scorer, and a passer who would mostly move the ball on the perimeter--basically a taller Cojo.
3. They underrated the brains, the shot (which is aided by the brains), his athleticism (meaning he's more athletic than what can be seen on tape), and the 6'5 height and 7 feet wingspan (he plays big--unlike Bags).
4. And like Curry and Russ, I think his athleticism is going to tick up once he's has a year or two of offseason training. Should be a consistent three level scorer by year three. Currently, his scoring, at the rim, in half court sets is a by product of opponents playing him for the pass or his jump shot. Should be able to muscle through eventually. Dude's IQ is off the charts.
Add on: I've watched a decent amount of Wolves games. Edwards athleticism is shocking at times. Dude is a next level athlete--and it's functional. He has warts, however. Is mostly a black hole right now and his vision is poor. If the Kings were picking #1, without the benefit of hindsight, I think they would pick Edwards. With hindsight, no way they do so..
Have you watched Tyrese play?
He runs the offense brilliantly, far better than any king in recent memory as matter of fact.
He has pose and timing. His assist to turnover rate is elite. He is already making the "right play," pivotal shots, and energizing team mates. He is the first person there hyping up players. One specific example was when Chavano hit the and-one in the last game. Who was there to congratulate him and help him up? I look at how he reacts with teammates, such as Bagley in the last game. That alley oop to Bags and pocket passes to Holmes got the offense going and made passing the ball contagious, so I don't see what you see. He made every facet of our offense better in the 1st quarter of the last game, so I'm going to have to disagree with you on this.
He runs the offense brilliantly, far better than any king in recent memory as matter of fact.
He has pose and timing. His assist to turnover rate is elite. He is already making the "right play," pivotal shots, and energizing team mates. He is the first person there hyping up players. One specific example was when Chavano hit the and-one in the last game. Who was there to congratulate him and help him up? I look at how he reacts with teammates, such as Bagley in the last game. That alley oop to Bags and pocket passes to Holmes got the offense going and made passing the ball contagious, so I don't see what you see. He made every facet of our offense better in the 1st quarter of the last game, so I'm going to have to disagree with you on this.
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Current Number 1 on NBA.com's first rookie ladder ranking. Let's go!
https://ca.nba.com/news/2020-21-nba...an-patrick-williams/hgpl59lyosuv1v7moq22kzmtu
https://ca.nba.com/news/2020-21-nba...an-patrick-williams/hgpl59lyosuv1v7moq22kzmtu
Going into the draft, you would have thought that a guard would have been the lowest "need". A SF would have been where you would be looking and someone to replace Beli might have been second, Barnes and Beli being "the old guys" and Baggy still a question mark).
I mean, you are already paying two guards big money.
Tyrese slipped to where he was a no-brainer (but I doubt that they thought he would be another cornerstone)
Would Vlade have made that pick?
I wonder if Joe Dumars had some influence on the choice. From experience, he knows that a point guard (Isiah), instant offense off the bench (Vinnie Johnson) and a combo guard (Dumars himself) could be a winning core - but in that formula, Buddy comes off the bench.
Maybe someone needs to show Buddy some game film from 30+ years ago - he still GETS his money.
I mean, you are already paying two guards big money.
Tyrese slipped to where he was a no-brainer (but I doubt that they thought he would be another cornerstone)
Would Vlade have made that pick?
I wonder if Joe Dumars had some influence on the choice. From experience, he knows that a point guard (Isiah), instant offense off the bench (Vinnie Johnson) and a combo guard (Dumars himself) could be a winning core - but in that formula, Buddy comes off the bench.
Maybe someone needs to show Buddy some game film from 30+ years ago - he still GETS his money.
After reading the article in The Athletics by Sam Amick regarding the whole Bogi incident, where Joe Dumar (and Vivek?) contacted Bogi to ensure him and his position on the team just to have McNair pulling the trigger on the trade that blindsided Bogi, I'm not sure if Joe, Vivek, and McNair were all on the same page. Hopefully, the hierarchy has been established now, but it definitely didn't feel right at the time.
I had seen that. Hopefully Dumars involvement was prior to McNair being fully in place. When I read that I wondered if that was a cause for discrepancy between what McNair sold the fans and what Walton was giving the fans. Mixed signals on play type with Walton betting on Dumars winning in the end. Pure speculation on my part.
Not the young Joe Axelson.
Of course, there were more rounds in the draft but Axelson thought he had a solid guard corps going into the 1971 draft and because the then-Royals had not been good, he was putting together a team partially through good picks in the draft. The previous year, he had drafted both Sam Lacey (1st round) and Tiny Archibald (2nd round) and in 1971, the Royals had the 4th overall pick in the draft.
And Axelson blew it. With the fourth pick, he took Ken Durrett, a small forward (drafting for need). The correct pick was (the 6th pick), (Downtown) Freddie Brown, but he was a guard and Axelson did not see that as his prime position of need, already having Tiny Archibald, Matt Goukas and Norm Van Lier at guard (he traded away Flynn Robinson on draft day).
Since there were less teams and more rounds, his number two pick that year, shooting guard John Mengelt was almost the equivalent of a first rounder. Mengelt had a decent ten year career, but mostly not with the Royals/Kings. Brown went on to be the Buddy Hield of his day and could have flourished with Archibald and Goukas but Durret is unremembered.
So, no, based on his early history, Axelson would probably not have drafted Haliburton, but who knows - #12 is different than #4.