Free Agency

[joemama]

If the Kings match on Bogi, a real possibility, ATL will have to give the Kings a lot more than Snell for Buddy.

Now that they have made McNair and the Kings mad, I would demand one of their young swing players (Hunter, Huerter or Reddish) and a first round pick for Buddy.

Who knows, this may have been ATL end game all along, to get Buddy to be the running mate for Trae Young.

Yep, they have cap space, picks and young players . . .so they have pieces to add to snell package.

 

[The Effort Police]

It's fun to be a contrarian, but sometimes a little feedback on when you've gone over the edge is useful.

You've gone over the edge with regards to Bagley. He is an already-good player with star potential who when healthy makes our team better, not worse. There is no "decision" about whether to pick up his fourth-year option. Not only will we pick it up, we would chase after it into moving traffic like it was a $100 bill blowing in the wind.

The numbers don't back this up.

And while Vlade would do that, I'm not so sure Morey-student McNair is desperate to retain him, even if I think he will ultimately have his option picked up.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The numbers don't back this up.

We sure seemed a heck of a lot better when he played his rookie season than when he didn't.

 

[The Effort Police]

We sure seemed a heck of a lot better when he played his rookie season than when he didn't.

Rookie Year
Net Rating On: -3.1
Net Rating Off: +0.5

Last year
Net Rating On: -14.0
Net Rating Off: -0.9

My hopes for a tank season is lost if Marvin Bagley isn't there. Fox is good enough by himself especially if he takes another jump to carry us out of top 3 range without Bagley's bad defense/shooting, ill-matched fit, and outdated face-up and post-up isos.

It's making me giddy... the situation is perfect.

 

[sactowndog]

It's fun to be a contrarian, but sometimes a little feedback on when you've gone over the edge is useful.

You've gone over the edge with regards to Bagley. He is an already-good player with star potential who when healthy makes our team better, not worse. There is no "decision" about whether to pick up his fourth-year option. Not only will we pick it up, we would chase after it into moving traffic like it was a $100 bill blowing in the wind.

I disagree completely. Right now Bagley is a very poor defensive big who shoots with a low percentage from outside. That isn’t being a contrarian. Those are simply the facts. Not to mention he has a problem staying on the floor.

They may or may not continue but if they do the Kings will not pick up his option.

 

[cwebb2002]

yes. this is Monte's team now. Out with the old.

Thats all well and good but wtf is the plan here. Get rid of everyone and get no draft picks?

 

[sactowndog]

Thats all well and good but wtf is the plan here. Get rid of everyone and get no draft picks?

it’s why I want to keep Bogi. We need some one of value to put in trade packages.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Thats all well and good but wtf is the plan here. Get rid of everyone and get no draft picks?

Get rid of dead weight and secure a top 5 pick next season, most likely.

 

[cwebb2002]

The numbers don't back this up.

And while Vlade would do that, I'm not so sure Morey-student McNair is desperate to retain him, even if I think he will ultimately have his option picked up.

Then while he has value for others, package him with buddy and ship them for actual assets that will make the team better. There has been zero moves to pick a direction with this team. I won't give McNair any credit for haliburton becuz he fell into McNairs lap. Giles gone for the minimum, Bazemore gone for less than $3M, Bogie gone for no return. I get the whole capspace thing but no moves have been done to take on salary in exchange for any assets. So far they look like a bunch of morons...hope they prove me wrong.

 

[cwebb2002]

Get rid of dead weight and secure a top 5 pick next season, most likely.

Getting rid of dead weight usually would have you take on salary in exchange for picks. Right now you are in tank mode with a single first rounder with no guarantee of a very high pick as is when you still have fox, buddy and bagley. You want to tank for real you trade your assets for picks. Whether the asset is players or cap space. They have done neither.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Then while he has value for others, package him with buddy and ship them for actual assets that will make the team better. There has been zero moves to pick a direction with this team. I won't give McNair any credit for haliburton becuz he fell into McNairs lap. Giles gone for the minimum, Bazemore gone for less than $3M, Bogie gone for no return. I get the whole capspace thing but no moves have been done to take on salary in exchange for any assets. So far they look like a bunch of morons...hope they prove me wrong.

Lots of reporting that Haliburton’s draft position was a little more nuanced—some credit to McNair here. Agree that if we do not match Bogi, we better see one of these bad contracts coming our way with multiple picks attached.

 

[ESP47]

If Bogi and Halliburton’s skills overlap than how is he gonna make Kobe I mean buddy any better

The year before last, when Buddy was rarely handling the ball, he was very good running off screens, in catch and shoot situations and in just running teams off the floor in general. If you get him back to that, which is obviously his bread and butter, he's far superior to Bogi because Fox and Haliburton will be doing most of the ball handling on the team.

Bogdan becomes valuable when you have a poor ball handling backup PG or need to give the starting PG a rest a few times down the floor. He can do what Buddy cannot do at all in that regard. In those situations, Bogdan is the more valuable player.

In the end it depends on who is on the team around them. If you have solid playmakers, you want them passing the ball to Buddy for open shots. If you need someone to do some playmaking for you, then you want Bogdan carrying some of that load. The Kings now have (hopefully) 2 really solid playmakers and to me that makes Bogdan's skills less valuable and Hield's skills more valuable.

yes and no.

I agree to some extent that Bogi and Haliburton skills over lap but high (or higher) IQ players do better when surrounded by other higher IQ players.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for having playmaking at every position on the team if possible. I mean obviously during the early 2000s, the Kings had overlapping skills at every position with their passing. That's never a bad thing but if I'm forced to choose between the two players with this roster, I'm choosing Buddy. It's kind of like picking between Peja and Hedo.

Then again if it was me, I would have traded basically everyone other than Fox and Haliburton and started over with a top pick next year.

 

[hrdboild]

I don't think Bagley is a negative value player, but I also think the best way to maximize his value as an asset is probably to trade him now before he depreciates further. I feel like most people have penciled him into their lineups long-term on the assumption that he gets better and eventually lives up to his #2 pick status (or close to it) but we've seen plenty of top 5 picks flame out before their rookie contracts are up. I haven't personally seen evidence yet that he's going to be an All-Star big man for us and I like the lineup better with Holmes at C and two Forwards who can shoot, pass, and play effective team defense out there along with whoever rises to the top in our backcourt. What Bagley brings to the table right now is rebounding and finishing plays but if he's neither an efficient perimeter shooter, average playmaker, or much of a factor on defense I don't think investing in him long-term is worth it.

 

[ESP47]

I don't think Bagley is a negative value player, but I also think the best way to maximize his value as an asset is probably to trade him now before he depreciates further. I feel like most people have penciled him into their lineups long-term on the assumption that he gets better and eventually lives up to his #2 pick status (or close to it) but we've seen plenty of top 5 picks flame out before their rookie contracts are up. I haven't personally seen evidence yet that he's going to be an All-Star big man for us and I like the lineup better with Holmes at C and two Forwards who can shoot, pass, and play effective team defense out there along with whoever rises to the top in our backcourt. What Bagley brings to the table right now is rebounding and finishing plays but if he's neither an efficient perimeter shooter, average playmaker, or much of a factor on defense I don't think investing in him long-term is worth it.

I guess it depends on which direction you want the franchise to go. I would trade Bagley in an instance but I don't think we could even get a Divincenzo type player for him. In that case, I'd play him big minutes this year. He's either going to continue the way he's been going and will cost us wins (helping us get a higher draft position) or he will do what I think he has an extremely low percentage chance of, which is become a really good player. Either way we win in some manner. I wouldn't dump him for nothing but if the right young promising player becomes available, I'd deal him in a second. I'm just not holding my breath on that one.

 

[The Effort Police]

I guess it depends on which direction you want the franchise to go. I would trade Bagley in an instance but I don't think we could even get a Divincenzo type player for him. In that case, I'd play him big minutes this year. He's either going to continue the way he's been going and will cost us wins (helping us get a higher draft position) or he will do what I think he has an extremely low percentage chance of, which is become a really good player. Either way we win in some manner. I wouldn't dump him for nothing but if the right young promising player becomes available, I'd deal him in a second. I'm just not holding my breath on that one.

Dump him after this year if he does the first one; hopefully he will have put up some counting stats that might sucker some other team into trading for him. He'll be good for PTS/REB at least if you play him big minutes.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Getting rid of dead weight usually would have you take on salary in exchange for picks. Right now you are in tank mode with a single first rounder with no guarantee of a very high pick as is when you still have fox, buddy and bagley. You want to tank for real you trade your assets for picks. Whether the asset is players or cap space. They have done neither.

I think there is a very real chance we trade Buddy, which would leave us with Fox and Bagley. We're tearing it down. You aren't getting assets for Baze or Harry and it's pretty clear that it just takes one team like Atlanta to completely blow whatever we could have done with Bogi.

I think Monte is actually salvaging what he can with this roster and being pretty shrewd about it compared to what a Hinkie would do.

 

[captain bill]

Gasol to the Lakers lol you can’t make this stuff up. Who goes ring hunting after they already have a ring??

 

[sactowndog]

It's fun to be a contrarian, but sometimes a little feedback on when you've gone over the edge is useful.

You've gone over the edge with regards to Bagley. He is an already-good player with star potential who when healthy makes our team better, not worse. There is no "decision" about whether to pick up his fourth-year option. Not only will we pick it up, we would chase after it into moving traffic like it was a $100 bill blowing in the wind.

just to follow up on this post.

Bagley. 51.2 TS%. 114.6 Defensive Rating
Giles. 55.4 TS%. 115.0 Defensive Rating
Parker. 63.8.TS%. 103.8 Defensive Rating
Barnes. 57.5 TS%. 111.4 Defensive Rating
Bjelicia. 60.2 TS%. 111.1 Defensive Rating

Right now Bagley has similar numbers to Giles who signed for a 1 year minimum deal. In Barnes case he routinely drew the other teams hardest offensive player. I did not say the Kings would not pick up his option but at this point it is realistic to say it is far from a given at $11M a year.

if they don’t pick up Bagley and let Bogi walk they will only have Fox, Buddy, Barnes, Haliburton James, Jeffries, Woodard, and Ramsey under contract.

Fox won’t be traded, Barnes too old, Buddy still to expensive and you don’t want to trade your young guys on cheap contracts. You literally have no assets with which to make a deal.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Gasol to the Lakers lol you can’t make this stuff up. Who goes ring hunting after they already have a ring??

I'm guessing there wasn't a huge market for him?

 

[sactowndog]

I guess it depends on which direction you want the franchise to go. I would trade Bagley in an instance but I don't think we could even get a Divincenzo type player for him. In that case, I'd play him big minutes this year. He's either going to continue the way he's been going and will cost us wins (helping us get a higher draft position) or he will do what I think he has an extremely low percentage chance of, which is become a really good player. Either way we win in some manner. I wouldn't dump him for nothing but if the right young promising player becomes available, I'd deal him in a second. I'm just not holding my breath on that one.

Selling Bagley low now would be pointless. As you said you give him a year to prove his worth. If he doesn’t make a big jump you don’t have a choice. You can’t pay him $11M for production similiar to Giles.

 

[sactowndog]

Dump him after this year if he does the first one; hopefully he will have put up some counting stats that might sucker some other team into trading for him. He'll be good for PTS/REB at least if you play him big minutes.

most teams are going to look at TS% and defensive rating. Those have to get better.

 

[ESP47]

Selling Bagley low now would be pointless. As you said you give him a year to prove his worth. If he doesn’t make a big jump you don’t have a choice. You can’t pay him $11M for production similiar to Giles.

It depends on how you look at it. His only real value is wrapped up in "potential" right now. A GM may be willing to give up an asset at a crack at him not realizing his potential due to injuries so far.

If you play him a year and he still isn't very good, the only value he had is now gone and no GM is going to give you anything worthwhile for him.

 

[sactowndog]

The year before last, when Buddy was rarely handling the ball, he was very good running off screens, in catch and shoot situations and in just running teams off the floor in general. If you get him back to that, which is obviously his bread and butter, he's far superior to Bogi because Fox and Haliburton will be doing most of the ball handling on the team.

Bogdan becomes valuable when you have a poor ball handling backup PG or need to give the starting PG a rest a few times down the floor. He can do what Buddy cannot do at all in that regard. In those situations, Bogdan is the more valuable player.

In the end it depends on who is on the team around them. If you have solid playmakers, you want them passing the ball to Buddy for open shots. If you need someone to do some playmaking for you, then you want Bogdan carrying some of that load. The Kings now have (hopefully) 2 really solid playmakers and to me that makes Bogdan's skills less valuable and Hield's skills more valuable.





Don't get me wrong, I'm all for having playmaking at every position on the team if possible. I mean obviously during the early 2000s, the Kings had overlapping skills at every position with their passing. That's never a bad thing but if I'm forced to choose between the two players with this roster, I'm choosing Buddy. It's kind of like picking between Peja and Hedo.

Then again if it was me, I would have traded basically everyone other than Fox and Haliburton and started over with a top pick next year.

I don’t disagree one of Buddy or Bogi needs to be traded. I don’t think we have to make that decision this year. You keep one of them next year when you know how they mesh versus guessing. Buddy (maybe) or Bogi are your only real assets that can be used as trade chips.

 

[sactowndog]

It depends on how you look at it. His only real value is wrapped up in "potential" right now. A GM may be willing to give up an asset at a crack at him not realizing his potential due to injuries so far.

If you play him a year and he still isn't very good, the only value he had is now gone and no GM is going to give you anything worthwhile for him.

Perhaps. I don’t think you get anything of value now. Better let him play out or use the cap space.

 

[NewArena]

Eh

if he does walk for nothing, I’m glad it’s Atlanta and not any western conference team. Let him go over there and enjoy losing even more games than before

 

[SacTownKid]

Gasol to the Lakers lol you can’t make this stuff up. Who goes ring hunting after they already have a ring??

One good thing about this FA period is the rich have gotten richer. And a few of the teams trying to hang with the wealthy have arguably fell even further back in the pack (Clippers in particular). This could bode well for the Kings if they can recoup some lost value and they aren't able to start being competitive as is.

 

[SacTownKid]

just to follow up on this post.

Bagley. 51.2 TS%. 114.6 Defensive Rating
Giles. 55.4 TS%. 115.0 Defensive Rating
Parker. 63.8.TS%. 103.8 Defensive Rating
Barnes. 57.5 TS%. 111.4 Defensive Rating
Bjelicia. 60.2 TS%. 111.1 Defensive Rating

Right now Bagley has similar numbers to Giles who signed for a 1 year minimum deal. In Barnes case he routinely drew the other teams hardest offensive player. I did not say the Kings would not pick up his option but at this point it is realistic to say it is far from a given at $11M a year.

if they don’t pick up Bagley and let Bogi walk they will only have Fox, Buddy, Barnes, Haliburton James, Jeffries, Woodard, and Ramsey under contract.

Fox won’t be traded, Barnes too old, Buddy still to expensive and you don’t want to trade your young guys on cheap contracts. You literally have no assets with which to make a deal.

Bagley clearly had a rough year last year. Look at his rookie year when he played more than 20 games for a bit more balance.

 

[SacTownKid]

most teams are going to look at TS% and defensive rating. Those have to get better.

And some people are also going to look at his rookie year when he was healthier. Right now he needs to prove himself for sure, but you can't just emphasize one set of evidence and ignore the others. He's also a young big. Typically it will take time for all of that to come together. If he can't stay on the floor next year or he doesn't fit it's not a good sign and moving him via trade as an add on to maybe a Buddy Hield or Harrison Barnes package should be an option.

 

[The_Jamal]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1330598778387140608

Very appealling imo. Cleaning up the books; gives you opportunity to potentially take salary for assets back, go take a shot on a Thon Maker/Sterling Brown/Hollis-Jefferson type.

 

[jiimbob]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1330598778387140608

Very appealling imo. Cleaning up the books; gives you opportunity to potentially take salary for assets back, go take a shot on a Thon Maker/Sterling Brown/Hollis-Jefferson type.

Great strategy. As long as player suggestions make a significant difference for this team and fit the youth time line. Enough loading up vets that don’t make this team any better.