[The Athletic] Dumars has no interest in being the long-term head of basketball operations, and will not be a candidate in the search.

[kb02]

My goodness I forgot about that absurd Porzingis deal. Dallas got a 23 year old unicorn plus Hardaway for Dennis smith and a first.


Just say no to Perry

A quick google search of Perry indicates a few things:

1. Dude was pretty horrible in NYC
2. Dude got a 1 yr contract, bcz of Covid. Leon Rose didn’t want to make a GM change bcz Covid limited interviews n scouting. But he’s pretty much gone after this year. He’s not interested in the Kings job, bcz he didn’t have freedom in NYC. He’s interested, bcz he’s effectively already out as the Knick’s GM.

So, yep, sounds like the kind of dude that should be the leading Kings GM candidate (insert sarcasm face here).

 

[captain bill]

Most of the moves vlade made were applauded when they happens besides Luka mistake and boogie trade. Besides those two we liked his moves and he saw early if he made a mistake a fixed it. In the era I don’t get how anyone can go sign 4 power forwards

Uhhhh please explain.... IIRC the Rondo maneuvers were even worse, didn’t he unnecessarily give up a 1st in a salary dump to sign Rondo??? Like not as major franchise consequences but prob the most brain dead. What was good?

 

[SacTownKid]

The expertise on front office executives on this site is quite impressive!

Well, Vivek has already run through to many types it's actually quite amazing. Within 4-5 years he's run through former players, agents, long time front office guys, stat guys, Warrior buds, I mean it is truly an amazing feat.

 

[SacTownKid]

If some of y'all don't find a way to enjoy this GM search, then you may not get another chance for 3 years! Dumars is the 'wise old sage' in Vivek's ear. That may not be great, but with all thangz Kangz, it could be much, much worse. In fact, wasn't it just that?

Yeah, they could half finish the sweep job and create another George Karl situation except his time the whole team might go up in flames. So yes, it could be much worse and still might be depending on what happens. A fresh start gives you a chance but this ain't quite a fresh start yet.

 

[SacTownKid]

Did Scott Perry sign 50 PFs to the Knicks this year or did Steve Mills sign them? Basketball reference lists them under Mills.

Perry's only transaction according to reference is trading Marcus Morris to the Clips for Harkless and a 2020 and 2021 1st round draft pick.

Those are the types of moves the Kings should be making.

For what reason though? To pick players or to build a trade cache? What's going to be tough if they decide to go all in on drafting is that could take years. The Kings have finally did that and it's been 10 years since. Starting with Reke/Cuz and whiffing a few after them. Now with Fox and Bagely and whiffing a few prior to and after them. With Cuz they missed their window to use cap the right way and unfortunately the Kings might be in the same kind of situation now. The rookies you'd be building around are already knocking on the rookie max door. They just signed Buddy long term. They signed Harrison long term as well. Hording picks usually aligns with cap space if done right and who knows what the cap looks like moving forward.

 

[SacTownKid]

My goodness I forgot about that absurd Porzingis deal. Dallas got a 23 year old unicorn plus Hardaway for Dennis smith and a first.


Just say no to Perry

In fairness his back was kind of against the wall with that Porzingis deal. If anything the talent evaluation is sketchy although I think he owned Vlade on that Ignas trade last year. That kid has tremendous potential.

 

[Joshoua]

Uhhhh please explain.... IIRC the Rondo maneuvers were even worse, didn’t he unnecessarily give up a 1st in a salary dump to sign Rondo??? Like not as major franchise consequences but prob the most brain dead. What was good?

Nobody was up in arms when we signed ZBo/Hill/Belinelli/Bjlecia/Temple were all signings that most of us endorsed at the time. Barnes trade was also a trade people loved at the time.

 

[24 rick barry]

Nobody was up in arms when we signed ZBo/Hill/Belinelli/Bjlecia/Temple were all signings that most of us endorsed at the time. Barnes trade was also a trade people loved at the time.

I was and am against these signings. What a waste. Should have taken on bad contracts in exchange for number 1s. The Kings would in a much better position today. Never could understand the just make it to the playoffs/8th seed mentality. Over half the league makes the playoffs. Under .500 teams make it to the playoffs.

 

[ESP47]

For what reason though? To pick players or to build a trade cache? What's going to be tough if they decide to go all in on drafting is that could take years. The Kings have finally did that and it's been 10 years since. Starting with Reke/Cuz and whiffing a few after them. Now with Fox and Bagely and whiffing a few prior to and after them. With Cuz they missed their window to use cap the right way and unfortunately the Kings might be in the same kind of situation now. The rookies you'd be building around are already knocking on the rookie max door. They just signed Buddy long term. They signed Harrison long term as well. Hording picks usually aligns with cap space if done right and who knows what the cap looks like moving forward.

The reason would be to try and land a Siakam, Brogdon, John Collins, Harrell, Josh Richardson etc type at the back end of the first round. The Kings aren't going to build a playoff team through free agency and they don't have the talent to build it through trades either. It's going to have to come mainly via the draft with a smaller emphasis on smart trades and free agent signings.

Buddy, Barnes and all those guys aren't going to be here when the Kings make the playoffs. The merry go round of veteran free agents + our weak core needs to stop. Every year they try and square peg this round hole is another year wasted.

The draft is no joke. Picking Luka would have sent us on a path of being a perennial playoff team for the next decade or more. Not picking Luka just cost the Kings another minimum of 3-5 years of wasted time and that's IF they can make the correct decisions in that time period...which most of us doubt they can do.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Re: Scott Perry and the Fox workout. If Fox did not workout here, Vlade would have taken Donovan Mitchell at #5, who worked out twice for us. So, that’s at worst a wash for us, and possibly even an ironic detriment. The one time Vlade’s gut instincts would have been correct, they were superseded by Perry’s ability to land a workout from a top prospect. Again, no thanks on Perry and a weak, agent appeasing, always available for minority owner concerns and chit-chat type of front office.

A GM might wildly overpay KCP as a favor because they know Lebron is coming the following summer. You don’t wildly overpay George Hill and Z-Bo for just general good will and agent bonhomie.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Again my god we’re impressed with someone cause he got a college player to come workout for us this is a new low

No lower than those who are impressed by a former GM that fielded g-league rosters for years, played a game of craps, and has since been out of the league for over 4 years now.

Yeah, you’re guilty of that So go easy on those who might believe Perry wasn’t calling all the shots in NY.

BTW, this supposed super team that the former Sixers GM laid the foundation for by purposely tanking is already half way to a first round exit in the bubble. And with only two other disappointing playoff exits under their belts, I gotta ask — were all those years of g-league rosters really worth that kind of pay off? SMH.

 

[SacTownKid]

The reason would be to try and land a Siakam, Brogdon, John Collins, Harrell, Josh Richardson etc type at the back end of the first round. The Kings aren't going to build a playoff team through free agency and they don't have the talent to build it through trades either. It's going to have to come mainly via the draft with a smaller emphasis on smart trades and free agent signings.

Buddy, Barnes and all those guys aren't going to be here when the Kings make the playoffs. The merry go round of veteran free agents + our weak core needs to stop. Every year they try and square peg this round hole is another year wasted.

The draft is no joke. Picking Luka would have sent us on a path of being a perennial playoff team for the next decade or more. Not picking Luka just cost the Kings another minimum of 3-5 years of wasted time and that's IF they can make the correct decisions in that time period...which most of us doubt they can do.

I see. That makes some sense but hording picks might not be the answer, having a competent scouting department likely is. Which this team hasn't had since Vlade has been involved. Honestly, not to toot the horn of this board too much but someone in the Kings organization would be wise to check out a thread or two. It might make them look like a draft genius if they did.

Luka is a what if to me considering this franchises ability to completely muck up a decent situation and fit. Vlade was right to think this organization couldn't make Fox and Luka work. Heck, they can't even make Fox and Buddy work which is utterly ridiculous considering the 5 man net ratings tell you it already does work.

As for the team, I see a bunch of square pegs put into the right hole one game, then promptly attempted to be shoved into a round hole the next. That's why this is so frustrating. Vlade was actually the first GM that somewhat knew what a team should look like. Then he's watched his coaches inflict as much damage to it as possible as they jack hammer a system in the half court that mostly fits the talent at what should be the back end of the rotation. As they watch a Buddy Hield get pushed out the door in favor of a Cory Joseph. It's infuriatingly maddening.

 

[VF21]

That would be the simplest solution.
I have a fair grasp what her job should entail as COO, and from what I have read she is successful at it.
I also read the Pete Youngman tweets which implied she has influence into hiring firing and basketball decisions as well as some posters opinions on this. I don’t know, but do know something aint working here in Sacramento so hopefully the latest events purge this team of more than just GM dysfunction.

You guys are missing the main point. MK has much more power than is generally acknowledged. It has been whispered about for years but never brought out into the light by any media. You aren't going to learn what's really going on by reading about her. When someone like Pete Youngman breaks his silence and makes pretty obvious comments, you really need to pay attention. Pete is universally respected throughout the athletic world.

There are people who know things and people who know those people. Sometimes little tidbits get out but no one so far has been willing to completely pull back the curtain and expose what's really going on. Suffice to say (once again), MK came to the Kings in 1998, was here throughout the Maloof years good and bad, and IS STILL HERE. That in and of itself is curious. Underestimate her influence at your own risk is all I'm saying.

 

[Livinthedream]

You guys are missing the main point. MK has much more power than is generally acknowledged. It has been whispered about for years but never brought out into the light by any media. You aren't going to learn what's really going on by reading about her. When someone like Pete Youngman breaks his silence and makes pretty obvious comments, you really need to pay attention. Pete is universally respected throughout the athletic world.

There are people who know things and people who know those people. Sometimes little tidbits get out but no one so far has been willing to completely pull back the curtain and expose what's really going on. Suffice to say (once again), MK came to the Kings in 1998, was here throughout the Maloof years good and bad, and IS STILL HERE. That in and of itself is curious. Underestimate her influence at your own risk is all I'm saying.

You've been saying this for years VF21 and I've been trying to pay attention as best I can to what she does because of that. She stays under the radar though.

 

[Joshoua]

No lower than those who are impressed by a former GM that fielded g-league rosters for years, played a game of craps, and has since been out of the league for over 4 years now.

Yeah, you’re guilty of that So go easy on those who might believe Perry wasn’t calling all the shots in NY.

BTW, this supposed super team that the former Sixers GM laid the foundation for by purposely tanking is already half way to a first round exit in the bubble. And with only two other disappointing playoff exits under their belts, I gotta ask — were all those years of g-league rosters really worth that kind of pay off? SMH.

Smh Brand destroyed Philadelphia it’s a miracle there where they are now and that’s only cause of Hinkies players. One of them being hurt smh

 

[jiimbob]

You guys are missing the main point. MK has much more power than is generally acknowledged. It has been whispered about for years but never brought out into the light by any media. You aren't going to learn what's really going on by reading about her. When someone like Pete Youngman breaks his silence and makes pretty obvious comments, you really need to pay attention. Pete is universally respected throughout the athletic world.

There are people who know things and people who know those people. Sometimes little tidbits get out but no one so far has been willing to completely pull back the curtain and expose what's really going on. Suffice to say (once again), MK came to the Kings in 1998, was here throughout the Maloof years good and bad, and IS STILL HERE. That in and of itself is curious. Underestimate her influence at your own risk is all I'm saying.

Don’t get the idea I’m defending her. I really wanted to get a better idea of what she’s paid for and how the media, or Matina, presents her.
Although I take away that she’s effective with off court operations, connected and well respected by some, I always question someones need for power and influence. If Matina is part of the problem with this team, which from Pete Youngman sounds like she is, then hope it’s recognised and remedied.

 

[Dime Dropper]

No lower than those who are impressed by a former GM that fielded g-league rosters for years

Intentionally, with a valid purpose that is now being proven correct.

played a game of craps

"Maximised his odds of getting stars" is the term you're searching for here. The opposite of playing craps, actually.

and has since been out of the league for over 4 years now.

As he was blacklisted for playing the system exactly as it needs to be in order to maximise a quick turnaround.

Fixed your perspective for you. You can twist it into your narrative but it doesn't change the effectiveness of what he intentionally achieved.

Yeah, you’re guilty of that So go easy on those who might believe Perry wasn’t calling all the shots in NY.

Yet you're willing to believe that Scott Perry's poor moves weren't actually his, based on what exactly? Vlade doesn't get a pass just because Brandon Williams may have pushed the Bagley pick. He has to own the moves as he called the final shots, just as Perry did.

BTW, this supposed super team that the former Sixers GM laid the foundation for by purposely tanking is already half way to a first round exit in the bubble. And with only two other disappointing playoff exits under their belts, I gotta ask — were all those years of g-league rosters really worth that kind of pay off? SMH.

They're a perennial 50+ win team, something this god-awful franchise can only dream of at the moment. The irony of a Kings fan critiquing Philly's team and upside after only 3 years of tanking, when the Kings have been in the gutter for the last 15 years with a pretty hopeless immediate future. You are completely out of touch with reality.

BTW, are you Kingster's alt? Surprising how similar your philosophies and posting styles are.

 

[Joshoua]

Intentionally, with a valid purpose that is now being proven correct.


"Maximised his odds of getting stars" is the term you're searching for here. The opposite of playing craps, actually.



As he was blacklisted for playing the system exactly as it needs to be in order to maximise a quick turnaround.

Fixed your perspective for you. You can twist it into your narrative but it doesn't change the effectiveness of what he intentionally achieved.





Yet you're willing to believe that Scott Perry's poor moves weren't actually his, based on what exactly? Vlade doesn't get a pass just because Brandon Williams may have pushed the Bagley pick. He has to own the moves as he called the final shots, just as Perry did.



They're a perennial 50+ win team, something this god-awful franchise can only dream of at the moment. The irony of a Kings fan critiquing Philly's team and upside after only 3 years of tanking, when the Kings have been in the gutter for the last 15 years with a pretty hopeless immediate future. You are completely out of touch with reality.

BTW, are you Kingster's alt? Surprising how similar your philosophies and posting styles are.

 

[Pacboy]

You've been saying this for years VF21 and I've been trying to pay attention as best I can to what she does because of that. She stays under the radar though.

My guess would be her connection with the real estate market. Her husband is a real estate mogul that build a lot of midtown shopping and apartment complex. I am sure through that connection was use in negotiation of DOCO and probably why she is around even after Maloof left

 

[burekijogurt]

You don't need Hinkie to tank. Just play they worst players you can find. Not talking about other aspects of the job, but tanking can be done by anyone. Its the drafting that will be the diferentiator.

But as far as tanking is concerned, Sixers should start tanking next season cause this is not going to work. The purpose of the NBA team is to win a championship, so any team that cannot reach the conference finals consistently should tank to restructure. NBA should just be 4 teams trying to win and rest trying to lose to get the best chance to become one of the 4 teams vying for a championship.

 

[The_Jamal]

You don't need Hinkie to tank. Just play they worst players you can find. Not talking about other aspects of the job, but tanking can be done by anyone. Its the drafting that will be the diferentiator.

But as far as tanking is concerned, Sixers should start tanking next season cause this is not going to work. The purpose of the NBA team is to win a championship, so any team that cannot reach the conference finals consistently should tank to restructure. NBA should just be 4 teams trying to win and rest trying to lose to get the best chance to become one of the 4 teams vying for a championship.

Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself. I'd probably widen the margin of teams to somewhere around top 6 or 7 teams, but the point still stands. There's no reason to be stuck as the 12th best team in the league with no real chance to win a title.

 

[Joshoua]

You don't need Hinkie to tank. Just play they worst players you can find. Not talking about other aspects of the job, but tanking can be done by anyone. Its the drafting that will be the diferentiator.

But as far as tanking is concerned, Sixers should start tanking next season cause this is not going to work. The purpose of the NBA team is to win a championship, so any team that cannot reach the conference finals consistently should tank to restructure. NBA should just be 4 teams trying to win and rest trying to lose to get the best chance to become one of the 4 teams vying for a championship.

Lol no good try

The purpose of a tank is to get a superstar or franchise player, Philadelphia has that and Simmons.

We could just keep doing what we’ve been doing for 15 years that’s worked. Or go get that 6-8th seed and get swept routinely or be like Orlando and win 1 playoff a game for no reason

 

[The_Jamal]

No lower than those who are impressed by a former GM that fielded g-league rosters for years, played a game of craps, and has since been out of the league for over 4 years now.

Yeah, you’re guilty of that So go easy on those who might believe Perry wasn’t calling all the shots in NY.

BTW, this supposed super team that the former Sixers GM laid the foundation for by purposely tanking is already half way to a first round exit in the bubble. And with only two other disappointing playoff exits under their belts, I gotta ask — were all those years of g-league rosters really worth that kind of pay off? SMH.

Yeah Hinkie 100% used a future first round pick to move up from 3 to draft Fultz only to trade him a year and a half later. Or how could I forget the time he paid Al Horford 25 million a year to not be able to play effectively next to Joel Embiid. Or trading two very good role players who Hinkie actually did find (Saric and Covington) for 1 year of Jimmy Butler. Or hey, how about that time Hinkie traded Shamet (good young player) Miami's unprotected 2021 pick, 2 Detroit 2nd round picks (2021, 2023) and their own pick protected in the lottery for the right to pay Tobias Harris the 5th largest contract in NBA history?

This is just you trying to construct your own narrative thinking you're "right" because you don't understand what Hinkie was actually building in Philly. He's the only reason Philly is a playoff team at this point. The fact that the following GM's completely ruined the greatest accumulation of assets in NBA history isn't his fault.

 

[burekijogurt]

Lol no good try

The purpose of a tank is to get a superstar or franchise player, Philadelphia has that and Simmons.

We could just keep doing what we’ve been doing for 15 years that’s worked. Or go get that 6-8th seed and get swept routinely or be like Orlando and win 1 playoff a game for no reason

Philly looks like they are not going to fare that much better than Orlando as far as having ceiling they cannot break through. what we did finally worked, but the drafting was the difference. we could have had our guy . interestingly, Warriors "got to tank" while they are good. Philly should just do the same and replenish with a potential superstar while they are still good

 

[Joshoua]

So Dumars was already planting stories around the league that turned candidates off, **** that guy man.

Smh all the good candidates are put off because they don’t know if they’ll be in charge. How dumb is vevik why would you have Dumars doing interviews.

We’re about to let Dumars make calls on big decisions this year than hire a GM next year. How incompetent is this franchise

 

[whozit]

So Dumars was already planting stories around the league that turned candidates off, **** that guy man.

Smh all the good candidates are put off because they don’t know if they’ll be in charge. How dumb is vevik why would you have Dumars doing interviews.

We’re about to let Dumars make calls on big decisions this year than hire a GM next year. How incompetent is this franchise

Very.

 

[chief bromden]

So Dumars was already planting stories around the league that turned candidates off, **** that guy man.

Smh all the good candidates are put off because they don’t know if they’ll be in charge. How dumb is vevik why would you have Dumars doing interviews.

We’re about to let Dumars make calls on big decisions this year than hire a GM next year. How incompetent is this franchise

This interview was a waste of time. Jason Anderson said absolutely nothing substantial. We already know Vivek and Matina is a s show up top. Carmichael Dave is more plugged than Jason Anderson, he should have just interviewed himself on this topic for the 916th time.

 

[24 rick barry]

Yeah Hinkie 100% used a future first round pick to move up from 3 to draft Fultz only to trade him a year and a half later. Or how could I forget the time he paid Al Horford 25 million a year to not be able to play effectively next to Joel Embiid. Or trading two very good role players who Hinkie actually did find (Saric and Covington) for 1 year of Jimmy Butler. Or hey, how about that time Hinkie traded Shamet (good young player) Miami's unprotected 2021 pick, 2 Detroit 2nd round picks (2021, 2023) and their own pick protected in the lottery for the right to pay Tobias Harris the 5th largest contract in NBA history?

This is just you trying to construct your own narrative thinking you're "right" because you don't understand what Hinkie was actually building in Philly. He's the only reason Philly is a playoff team at this point. The fact that the following GM's completely ruined the greatest accumulation of assets in NBA history isn't his fault.

You're right on target. Hinkie turned it all around in 3 years from the bottom to a contender. He did it the right way. He wasn't responsible for the moves that came later by the Colangelos on. Hinkie didn't get us here. He has a proven method to turn us from being the perennial non factor team to a contender. Let's follow his path, bear the short term pain, and we will come out a top 5 contender for sometime. If not, we stay a below average team forever. You've got to take that shot. We are the NBA's laughing stock. BTW Vivek does know that you have to take it ALL apart before you can rebuild it. Vivek also knows that their is no one better than Hinke, with the proven track record and method, to accomplish this. But does he have the (financial) courage to do this and see it all the way through.

 

[steelevt]

You're right on target. Hinkie turned it all around in 3 years from the bottom to a contender. He did it the right way. He wasn't responsible for the moves that came later by the Colangelos on. Hinkie didn't get us here. He has a proven method to turn us from being the perennial non factor team to a contender. Let's follow his path, bear the short term pain, and we will come out a top 5 contender for sometime. If not, we stay a below average team forever. You've got to take that shot. We are the NBA's laughing stock. BTW Vivek does know that you have to take it ALL apart before you can rebuild it. Vivek also knows that their is no one better than Hinke, with the proven track record and method, to accomplish this. But does he have the (financial) courage to do this and see it all the way through.

My main concern is if this really is the right way. We don't really know because the guy got fired before he could see if the process really worked. The fact that the sixers havent won it all or even made it to the ECF doesnt help. Yes we can blame the GMs that followed but again no one could ever really know unless possibly they won it all not too long after he left. This is really a copycat league. Big 3 star teams, increase 3 point shooting etc. If tanking was the right way, he wouldnt be the only one that did it. Now if you say he was great/good at drafting or trading, I can get on board with that. i just dont think tanking is the only way or even a proven way. Hell, vlade's way could have gotten us fox and luka. I think that duo has just as much potential as Embiid/ben simmons if not more. Dont get me wrong, I'm not against hinkie. His drafting was pretty decent with high picks and later picks and found covington from the d-league. Also able to swindle vlade in a trade. I'd personally rather hear the guys accomplishments like others have mentioned on this site vs a gimicky "strategy" to cheat the system.

 

[whozit]

My main concern is if this really is the right way. We don't really know because the guy got fired before he could see if the process really worked. The fact that the sixers havent won it all or even made it to the ECF doesnt help. Yes we can blame the GMs that followed but again no one could ever really know unless possibly they won it all not too long after he left. This is really a copycat league. Big 3 star teams, increase 3 point shooting etc. If tanking was the right way, he wouldnt be the only one that did it. Now if you say he was great/good at drafting or trading, I can get on board with that. i just dont think tanking is the only way or even a proven way. Hell, vlade's way could have gotten us fox and luka. I think that duo has just as much potential as Embiid/ben simmons if not more. Dont get me wrong, I'm not against hinkie. His drafting was pretty decent with high picks and later picks and found covington from the d-league. Also able to swindle vlade in a trade. I'd personally rather hear the guys accomplishments like others have mentioned on this site vs a gimicky "strategy" to cheat the system.

Those are the key words, cheat the system. Cheat the system. I want my team to do their best. I want it to be competitive. I don't want it screwed because of political infighting in upper reaches. I want competence on the side lines. I don't want to think that they are taking the masses for a ride charging full price for a product designed to fail. Fail in shorting the customer who is paying the price for admission today with promises of tomorrow. We aren't promised tomorrow.

It may be successful but it feels dirty.