[The Athletic] Dumars has no interest in being the long-term head of basketball operations, and will not be a candidate in the search.

#31
Exactly. Vlade whiffed when it came to the use your noodle portion of the draft (beyond pick 5) but he was building the first thing that made some sense on paper. As bad as he stacked at positions it was nothing like Petrie in his final few years. The biggest backlash in that for Vlade was that he probably somewhat duped the players into thinking their roles were solid upon signging when they weren't. As good as Holmes was in no other situation would Dedmon be misused and then promptly thrown from the rotation like he was here. That word gets around with players come FA time.

That said, Petrie first trading assets for Hickson who didn't fit next to a Cousins anyway, then still signing JT to that deal was a killer. Gosh that was anger inducing. At least Vlade kept those deals overpaid but short and bailed before things went full on nuclear. The Petrie towards the end would've signed Dedmon to a full lifetime contract after he was benched if he could have.
Most of the moves vlade made were applauded when they happens besides Luka mistake and boogie trade. Besides those two we liked his moves and he saw early if he made a mistake a fixed it. In the era I don’t get how anyone can go sign 4 power forwards
 
#32
I mean, after Perry's job with the Knicks he's already worked his way back to the Kings? They chew you up and spit you out fast up there. In reality it looks like Dumars is putting his band back together though. Or trying to. They had one hit in 2004, but if it happens it will cement that legacy too depending on what happens here.
No reporter has asked, looked into, and answered the following question: NYK was Perry's dream job. He cut from Sac after 3/4 months. What happened there, what did he accomplish, and why is he looking to cut? And, no, Dolan is not a sufficient answer.
 
#33
Wait it said no Hinkie!

Holy ****ing crap man this franchise, were hyping up a GM for getting an obvious pick to come in for a workout. A ****ing workout, no wonder they chose Bagley he dominated chairs at workout and is one of the reasons we took him
Sorry. Meant Hinkie was not mentioned. Like 20 other people were mentioned, however. Which is, I guess, another way of saying NO HINKIE.
 
#34
No reporter has asked, looked into, and answered the following question: NYK was Perry's dream job. He cut from Sac after 3/4 months. What happened there, what did he accomplish, and why is he looking to cut? And, no, Dolan is not a sufficient answer.
It's quite troubling, isn't it?

I'm not sure I buy it's Perry but we'll see I guess. I don't think they'd bother with a large search committee if it was a guy who is basically an in-house hire (even if he left house).
 
#36
It's quite troubling, isn't it?

I'm not sure I buy it's Perry but we'll see I guess. I don't think they'd bother with a large search committee if it was a guy who is basically an in-house hire (even if he left house).
Search firms, if used properly, can be gold. They vet candidates, helps owners/management fine tune their message, identify what they really need, give PR cover, price point salaries/compensation/demands...

That said, Vivek still needs to listen to the search firms recommendations. That is certainly not a sure thing.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#37
Again my god we’re impressed with someone cause he got a college player to come workout for us this is a new low I don’t even think Browns fans have hit. Scott Perry is rock bottom folks and I might pull a Brick and leave
The expertise on front office executives on this site is quite impressive!
 
#38
Search firms, if used properly, can be gold. They vet candidates, helps owners/management fine tune their message, identify what they really need, give PR cover, price point salaries/compensation/demands...

That said, Vivek still needs to listen to the search firms recommendations. That is certainly not a sure thing.
What him not listening? Surely not, unless it's the demons in his ear.
 
#39
yeah I don't get what Dumars' purpose is. Either give him the reins, or let him go and let the hired sports firm find the new GM. I can understand that we need someone to see over the draft and free agency, but then make it clear Dumars will do this and then leave once the new GM is hired. Anyone who would want the GM job must be thinking the same to themselves about Dumars. Its a potential problem.
 
#40
yeah I don't get what Dumars' purpose is. Either give him the reins, or let him go and let the hired sports firm find the new GM. I can understand that we need someone to see over the draft and free agency, but then make it clear Dumars will do this and then leave once the new GM is hired. Anyone who would want the GM job must be thinking the same to themselves about Dumars. Its a potential problem.
But this is so asinine (not your post!) and so reflective of ownership's management style. You get Vlade to "step down" rather than answer to Dumars but once Vlade "steps down" then suddenly Dumars isn't good enough for being top dog. Somebody, anybody explain that logic.
 
#41
Just reading up a bit on Matina, sorry but I don’t think shes going anywhere. Brought in originally by Petrie to help facilitate getting Peja out of his contract in Greece, Matina is well connected.
In a league that is perceived starved of female influence, it’s not likely an organisation like the Kings which prides itself in correctness and innovation would risk letting her go. Anyways as I knew little about her and since she has been mentioned in recent discussions thought I would read up. No explanation though of her clout within the organisation.
 
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#42
Just reading up a bit on Matina, sorry but I don’t think shes going anywhere. Brought in originally by Petrie to help facilitate getting Peja out of his contract in Greece, Matina is well connected.
In a league that is perceived starved of female influence, it’s not likely an organisation like the Kings which prides itself correctness and innovation would risk letting her go. Anyways as I knew little about her and since she has been mentioned in recent discussions thought I would read up. No explanation though of her clout within the organisation.
No, I don't think they will let her go but not because of political correctness.

If they really believed in political correctness and applied it to themselves they wouldn't be doing Dumars as it appears they are.

And I don't know what I think of him. There are good arguments for AND against him.
 
#43
Something doesn’t add up. The reason vlade quit/stepped down/got fired/ whatever is because they wanted to take away some of his responsibilities/reduced role and he didn’t want to. I assumed Dumars would have been given those responsibilities but now it states he doesn’t want it or he would have no authority over the new gm. So what gives.
 
#44
Something doesn’t add up. The reason vlade quit/stepped down/got fired/ whatever is because they wanted to take away some of his responsibilities/reduced role and he didn’t want to. I assumed Dumars would have been given those responsibilities but now it states he doesn’t want it or he would have no authority over the new gm. So what gives.
Nope it doesn't. You have to figure that Dumars was on board with the greater responsibility before they went to Vlade. And if it was just to get rid of Vlade, that is just bush league. I have to wonder how Dumars feels right now. Used? Done dirty? It doesn't look good in any light and this looks even worse.
 
#45
Carmichael Dave and Sam had an extensive conversation on the topic this morning, which was great. One issue has still not been broached—will the COO continue to have decision making authority over basketball operations? Would this particular COO be amenable to relinquishing basketball ops authority, or do we need a new COO in conjunction with a new president of basketball operations? Per Mr Youngman, he was fired by the COO. No one of the caliber of Simon, Webster or Zarren will even interview if the COO would have the authority to fire the GM’s new training staff—which we would obviously hire a new staff given the disastrous results this season.

I wish someone like Carmichael Dave or Marcos Breton would address what specific authority the COO has within this organization. We hear a lot of conversation about Vivek, and minority owners, but the COO is never discussed despite poor basketball decisions.

Which begs the question: why do the (mostly local) minority owners want Scott Perry so badly? Perry would captain another weak front office. Shouldn’t the minority owners want a strong, new voice in the front office to champion the best interests of the on-court product directly to Vivek? Wouldn’t on-court results drive the biggest increase in equity?
Hear! Hear!
 
#46
Just reading up a bit on Matina, sorry but I don’t think shes going anywhere. Brought in originally by Petrie to help facilitate getting Peja out of his contract in Greece, Matina is well connected.
In a league that is perceived starved of female influence, it’s not likely an organisation like the Kings which prides itself in correctness and innovation would risk letting her go. Anyways as I knew little about her and since she has been mentioned in recent discussions thought I would read up. No explanation though of her clout within the organisation.
Her responsibilities could be modified. IMO She should no authority over Basketball decisions.
 
#47
No reporter has asked, looked into, and answered the following question: NYK was Perry's dream job. He cut from Sac after 3/4 months. What happened there, what did he accomplish, and why is he looking to cut? And, no, Dolan is not a sufficient answer.
It actually answers itself if you think about it. If you have your dream job in a city like New York you left cause you weren’t successful there.
 
#48
No reporter has asked, looked into, and answered the following question: NYK was Perry's dream job. He cut from Sac after 3/4 months. What happened there, what did he accomplish, and why is he looking to cut? And, no, Dolan is not a sufficient answer.
Sam talked about it, saying that he thought it would be a dream job but ultimately was never let off the leash of the FO and it turned sour.

I supposed (not saying you, I guess) sometimes doing just headline reading is about as well as window shopping.


It's also funny to see all of you GMs out there not having a job managing a team anywhere and just sit here in front of your monitor and keyboard criticizing every little move with zero credibility or even source sometimes. Just going on a hunch.
 
#49
Sam talked about it, saying that he thought it would be a dream job but ultimately was never let off the leash of the FO and it turned sour.

I supposed (not saying you, I guess) sometimes doing just headline reading is about as well as window shopping.


It's also funny to see all of you GMs out there not having a job managing a team anywhere and just sit here in front of your monitor and keyboard criticizing every little move with zero credibility or even source sometimes. Just going on a hunch.
You’re throwing a lot of assumptions out.

First, I haven’t read anything that addresses the questions that I posed. Second, I haven’t watched nor listened to the Amick interview. It’s easier to read articles than to listen to a full interview bcz I’m juggling work plus a newborn. Third, saying he wants to leave NYK because of a lack of freedom doesn’t address his performance nor the other obvious issue—Vivek ain’t going to be giving him free reign either.

Look at my posts. And those of others. As it relates to Perry, none of us are professing to be qualified to know whether he is good. We’re questioning the reasons for why he is so awesome—signing retread vets, getting Fox to show up for a workout, n having league connections are head scratching examples of his awesomeness. Show us performance, finding and developing diamonds in the rough when he was the man—if you’re going to be putting out major spin jobs about his awesomeness. Until we see relevant evidence or until the PR campaign ends, questioning why he is so awesome is fair.
 
#50
Her responsibilities could be modified. IMO She should no authority over Basketball decisions.
That would be the simplest solution.
I have a fair grasp what her job should entail as COO, and from what I have read she is successful at it.
I also read the Pete Youngman tweets which implied she has influence into hiring firing and basketball decisions as well as some posters opinions on this. I don’t know, but do know something aint working here in Sacramento so hopefully the latest events purge this team of more than just GM dysfunction.
 
#51
You’re throwing a lot of assumptions out.

First, I haven’t read anything that addresses the questions that I posed. Second, I haven’t watched nor listened to the Amick interview. It’s easier to read articles than to listen to a full interview bcz I’m juggling work plus a newborn. Third, saying he wants to leave NYK because of a lack of freedom doesn’t address his performance nor the other obvious issue—Vivek ain’t going to be giving him free reign either.

Look at my posts. And those of others. As it relates to Perry, none of us are professing to be qualified to know whether he is good. We’re questioning the reasons for why he is so awesome—signing retread vets, getting Fox to show up for a workout, n having league connections are head scratching examples of his awesomeness. Show us performance, finding and developing diamonds in the rough when he was the man—if you’re going to be putting out major spin jobs about his awesomeness. Until we see relevant evidence or until the PR campaign ends, questioning why he is so awesome is fair.
There is also the thing that Perry being the front runner partly because of his relationship with Dumars. With the status of Dumars going forward unclear, I'm not sure if that relationship is even a factor one way or the other.

I trust the PR spin related to the Kings less than I trust the daily news cycle. And that is a really, really low bar to fit under.
 
#53
If some of y'all don't find a way to enjoy this GM search, then you may not get another chance for 3 years! Dumars is the 'wise old sage' in Vivek's ear. That may not be great, but with all thangz Kangz, it could be much, much worse. In fact, wasn't it just that?
yeah its kind of exciting times and Joe is a decent bloke. Im a bit old myself, so the GM search is kind of a mixed bag for me weighing the younger approach to analytics...and just old school approach of gut feeling and hands on.
 
#54
Honestly, this is the best news we could have hoped for. Lets hope the messaging clears up with this firm. Most of the top candidates would not be willing to take the job without final say. This removes that unknown. The Matina not being involved in basketball ops is huge too. For that to be said publicly means enough of that has been floating around it needed to be addressed. The last straw is some final clarity to what Dumars involvement is. If he is the Jerry West sage advice veteran great, if he is a looming figure that will cause Vivek and Co. to second guess every decision, then bad.

I am concerned we won't have enough $$$ to fill out the FO. There has already been a cash call on the ownership group. I cant imagine there won't be another.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#55
Honestly, this is the best news we could have hoped for. Lets hope the messaging clears up with this firm. Most of the top candidates would not be willing to take the job without final say. This removes that unknown. The Matina not being involved in basketball ops is huge too. For that to be said publicly means enough of that has been floating around it needed to be addressed. The last straw is some final clarity to what Dumars involvement is. If he is the Jerry West sage advice veteran great, if he is a looming figure that will cause Vivek and Co. to second guess every decision, then bad.

I am concerned we won't have enough $$$ to fill out the FO. There has already been a cash call on the ownership group. I cant imagine there won't be another.
When they hire a new GM, I think they can supplement it or fills Peja’s role with the guy from Stockton of the G League. He’s done a good job and this could be a natural Progression and affordable option for a hungry guy.
 
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#57
Did Scott Perry sign 50 PFs to the Knicks this year or did Steve Mills sign them? Basketball reference lists them under Mills.

Perry's only transaction according to reference is trading Marcus Morris to the Clips for Harkless and a 2020 and 2021 1st round draft pick.

Those are the types of moves the Kings should be making.
 
#58
Did Scott Perry sign 50 PFs to the Knicks this year or did Steve Mills sign them? Basketball reference lists them under Mills.

Perry's only transaction according to reference is trading Marcus Morris to the Clips for Harkless and a 2020 and 2021 1st round draft pick.

Those are the types of moves the Kings should be making.
Mills was President. Perry was GM. Here’s one dude’s opinion:

https://nypost.com/2019/12/06/knicks-also-must-fire-steve-mills-and-scott-perry/