What his Haney does is what’s best for Giles not the other guys. What promise could be made anyways with not picking up his option? 4 million is chump change if the FO is dumb enough to make a deal with him it’s worse than not picking it up cause they don’t trust his talent. Giles will get more than 4mill I don’t see him here next year
The Harry Giles option conundrum
- Thread starter AMR42700
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It's been explained a dozen times how a 2 year with a player option vs. extending and then RFA is mutually beneficial to all involved given Harry's injury issues. Particularly if these concerns were keeping him off the floor this year.
How about we just wait and see what actually happens? I'm not going to give them a pass if we lose him I am just not going to crucify them prematurely.
How about we just wait and see what actually happens? I'm not going to give them a pass if we lose him I am just not going to crucify them prematurely.
If he remained under contract I think he'd be allowed a ~5% raise in year 2.
If we had extended him the 2021 cap hold would be 2.5-3x his contract (this range has to do with "estimated average salary", beyond me sorry).
His cap hold as a UFA would be 190% of his last salary assuming that he falls under the "below expected average salary" by signing the 2 year offer with the lesser raise in year 5 than he'd get.
So yeah, it could actually be a pretty significant difference.
If we had extended him the 2021 cap hold would be 2.5-3x his contract (this range has to do with "estimated average salary", beyond me sorry).
His cap hold as a UFA would be 190% of his last salary assuming that he falls under the "below expected average salary" by signing the 2 year offer with the lesser raise in year 5 than he'd get.
So yeah, it could actually be a pretty significant difference.
Without flipping through all 13 pages, can someone summarize the situation with Harry?
So we didn't pick up his contract option, and we can only bring him back for no more than his original contract's worth? 4m?
Capt maybe can come for rescue?
So we didn't pick up his contract option, and we can only bring him back for no more than his original contract's worth? 4m?
Capt maybe can come for rescue?
Hopefully Richaun Holmes makes his way back soon and reclaims the starting center spot. It would help hide Harry from potential suitors for the rest of the year, if Richaun starts and finishes games like he was before his injury. If Harry comes off the bench, the less likely some team falls in love with him and gives him a big contract this summer.
Very interesting, and in the same summer where Bagley would be due in extension, which also happens to be the last summer we could on-board a free agent assuming the core all stay and get paid as anticipated. Thanks! And, Bagley and Giles have the same agent. I don’t particularly trust Vlade at this point, but I do implicitly trust Catanella, and there’s enough going on here to think that maybe Ken has something up his sleeve. We’ll see. Thanks again!
I'm piggybacking off of this post, but it's not directed at you.
Kings fans may be overvaluing Harry just a bit. He's a tweener. Definitely has a lot of fight in him, but physically he's not a 5 and doesn't have the frame to grow big enough to bang with centers in the league (his listed weight is a lie). The physical difference when Len got into the game against the Clippers was stark and that physicality changed everything. Giles is not quite laterally quick enough to guard 4s and doesn't have the shooting ability or defensive ability to play 3. Combine that with whatever broke down between him and the team over the summer and there are some questions. Does he see the floor and pass well? Yes. Does he play hard? Yes. Does he have the physical qualities that teams will be scrambling to try to get this offseason? I don't think so.
Bjelica signed for 6mil per and Holmes signed for less than 5mil. Those were vets with established attributes. I'd be surprised if Giles could easily get their type of money on the open market. This isn't as much of a conundrum as it is an educated gamble on the Kings part. Or maybe, like some have suggested, a backroom deal.
Kings fans may be overvaluing Harry just a bit. He's a tweener. Definitely has a lot of fight in him, but physically he's not a 5 and doesn't have the frame to grow big enough to bang with centers in the league (his listed weight is a lie). The physical difference when Len got into the game against the Clippers was stark and that physicality changed everything. Giles is not quite laterally quick enough to guard 4s and doesn't have the shooting ability or defensive ability to play 3. Combine that with whatever broke down between him and the team over the summer and there are some questions. Does he see the floor and pass well? Yes. Does he play hard? Yes. Does he have the physical qualities that teams will be scrambling to try to get this offseason? I don't think so.
Bjelica signed for 6mil per and Holmes signed for less than 5mil. Those were vets with established attributes. I'd be surprised if Giles could easily get their type of money on the open market. This isn't as much of a conundrum as it is an educated gamble on the Kings part. Or maybe, like some have suggested, a backroom deal.
Nailed it. There’s no question that Giles balls with heart and he is a fan favorite because of it. He is definitely capable of making big plays in key moments with his hustle and passing ability. Overall though, I see Giles as a solid rotational piece with a skill-set that works best in the right game situations. He definitely has room to grow and to become more of a consistent contributor, but I don’t think that his ceiling is dramatically higher than what we are seeing now.
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Funny, if someone would say roughly similar things about Bagley (yes, I know Bagley has better lateral quickness), many people would be up in arms.
Let's not forget that Harry is less than a year older than Bagley and yet played almost 700 less NBA minutes in his young career. If Bagley isn't a finished product, neither is Giles. And in my opinion, Harry may have more chance to develop further, because of his mindset, his BBIQ and his team oriented spirit. No doubt that Bagley has the higher upside, but plenty of people don't reach that upside.
I know that the Spurs draft players largely based on character profiles, and look almost as much (if not more) to players' character makeup as to physical traits. I suspect that Giles is more of a Spurs type than Bagley is.
Let's not forget that Harry is less than a year older than Bagley and yet played almost 700 less NBA minutes in his young career. If Bagley isn't a finished product, neither is Giles. And in my opinion, Harry may have more chance to develop further, because of his mindset, his BBIQ and his team oriented spirit. No doubt that Bagley has the higher upside, but plenty of people don't reach that upside.
I know that the Spurs draft players largely based on character profiles, and look almost as much (if not more) to players' character makeup as to physical traits. I suspect that Giles is more of a Spurs type than Bagley is.
I have all those things, yet here I am. Physical deficiencies matter.
When the Spurs lost Tim Duncan, Parker, Ginobili....it was all downhill from there. Spurs are a team full of smart role players with no stars, and what you get with that is a well coached average team with an average record. So Giles may fit their system, but he's not moving the needle. How much do teams value that kind of player is the question.
When the Spurs lost Tim Duncan, Parker, Ginobili....it was all downhill from there. Spurs are a team full of smart role players with no stars, and what you get with that is a well coached average team with an average record. So Giles may fit their system, but he's not moving the needle. How much do teams value that kind of player is the question.
I've been trying to stay out of this conversation simply because there is no right answer. Now if I had privy to Giles thoughts, then I might have some insights. But I don't. I tend to agree with the Capt that a one year deal, or a two year deal with an option on the 2nd year might be appealing to Giles, who seems to love playing here. For one thing, this isn't a good year to be a free agent. Only a few teams have a lot of room under the cap, and some of those have their own free agents to consider.
If your a team with capspace, are you looking at Giles, or are you looking at a more proven player? Yeah, Giles might be a cheap risk, but will he be a difference maker? Are you looking at Giles, or perhaps Joe Harris, Montrezl Harrell, Brandon Ingram, Fred Van Fleet, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Paul Milsap, Derrick Favors, Marcus Morris, Danilo Gallinari, Serge Ibaka, Marac Gasol, or Jae Crowder. And the list of unrestricted free agents goes on and on. Yes, some of those players will resign with their current team, but that also reduces the chance that, that team would look to sign Giles.
Hey, I'm just trying to be optimistic here. I personally think that Giles would benefit more from signing a one year deal where he can establish himself and then re-enter the free agent market a year later, which would also give us a chance to give him a bigger contract. Or maybe I'm living in fantasy land... Very nice place, you should join me...
If your a team with capspace, are you looking at Giles, or are you looking at a more proven player? Yeah, Giles might be a cheap risk, but will he be a difference maker? Are you looking at Giles, or perhaps Joe Harris, Montrezl Harrell, Brandon Ingram, Fred Van Fleet, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Paul Milsap, Derrick Favors, Marcus Morris, Danilo Gallinari, Serge Ibaka, Marac Gasol, or Jae Crowder. And the list of unrestricted free agents goes on and on. Yes, some of those players will resign with their current team, but that also reduces the chance that, that team would look to sign Giles.
Hey, I'm just trying to be optimistic here. I personally think that Giles would benefit more from signing a one year deal where he can establish himself and then re-enter the free agent market a year later, which would also give us a chance to give him a bigger contract. Or maybe I'm living in fantasy land... Very nice place, you should join me...
We know he might leave. We also know he might stay. Harry is a Fan favorite in Sactown and IMO the Kings are his best chance to succeed. Vlade took the gamble of drafting a damaged player and has stuck with him. Yes there is the contract thing but he is still here now and we love him.
Wet Bandits!!! Harry and Marv coming soon
Wet Bandits!!! Harry and Marv coming soon
Remember, the decision is still Giles. Unless the offer is an offer he can't refuse, then he could decide to take less for one year. We originally drafted Brian Grant, and he led us into the playoffs for the first time since the first year the team arrived. But when his contract was up, he decided to sign with the Trailblazers for less money than we offered. Sometimes, it's not just about money..
We know he might leave. We also know he might stay. Harry is a Fan favorite in Sactown and IMO the Kings are his best chance to succeed. Vlade took the gamble of drafting a damaged player and has stuck with him. Yes there is the contract thing but he is still here now and we love him.
Wet Bandits!!! Harry and Marv coming soon
Wet Bandits!!! Harry and Marv coming soon
This team has been pretty bad at developing young talent.
Also, I think the love by fans will rate quite low on the list of factors for players to decide where they'll play next. I get that this is one of the few calling cards we have - and we should be proud of it - but it is sadly because of a lack of other things and not that impactful.
Something that may hold back teams from offering Harry a big contract this summer, besides his injury history, is his lack of a 3 point shot thus far.
The bigmen Free Agents that are in high demand these days are the ones that can stretch the floor. Although I think HG can develop the 3 point shot in time, he has not shown that ability yet. That may be the saving grace for the Kings to re-sign HG this summer.
The bigmen Free Agents that are in high demand these days are the ones that can stretch the floor. Although I think HG can develop the 3 point shot in time, he has not shown that ability yet. That may be the saving grace for the Kings to re-sign HG this summer.
And even in Harry's recent play he's still showing that as a center he has got some significant gains to make physically before he'll ever be able to find consistent minutes for a team. He's doing much better lately but he's still a bit stuck between positions and likely will always be to a degree. Players like that usually have to find a situation where they can produce stats, otherwise values on a player like that can vary wildly between teams.
The idea of bringing Giles back actually complicates things more and more. There is absolutely no way you can make a big lineup of Bagley, Holmes, Bjelica, Giles, and likely one other true sized center (Len?) work without shutting certain players out of the lineup game to game. That's not even considering the fact that the Kings are usually better off playing small on top of it because of Barnes. Just like the reality that historically platoon lineups never last, neither does that type of game by game rotation management. The failures on and off the court this year can be largely tied to that exact style of roster management. We've seen it first hand, it won't work without players getting pissed and without chemistry on the floor suffering. If someone like Giles is just going to be rotated on a game to game basis the hard truth is he might be better off going to a situation where he can find a more solid spot in the rotation to gain the experience you can only gain from a consistent role. The great thing about the NBA is if you keep that relationship on solid ground in a few years you can prepare to make a play for him when he's developed. Maybe Giles isn't part of a needed change, but as is, there is likely some reduction necessary in the frontcourt this summer.
The idea of bringing Giles back actually complicates things more and more. There is absolutely no way you can make a big lineup of Bagley, Holmes, Bjelica, Giles, and likely one other true sized center (Len?) work without shutting certain players out of the lineup game to game. That's not even considering the fact that the Kings are usually better off playing small on top of it because of Barnes. Just like the reality that historically platoon lineups never last, neither does that type of game by game rotation management. The failures on and off the court this year can be largely tied to that exact style of roster management. We've seen it first hand, it won't work without players getting pissed and without chemistry on the floor suffering. If someone like Giles is just going to be rotated on a game to game basis the hard truth is he might be better off going to a situation where he can find a more solid spot in the rotation to gain the experience you can only gain from a consistent role. The great thing about the NBA is if you keep that relationship on solid ground in a few years you can prepare to make a play for him when he's developed. Maybe Giles isn't part of a needed change, but as is, there is likely some reduction necessary in the frontcourt this summer.
To me due to his injury the Kings were probably babying him more than they should (understandably) whereas in protecting the long term health of the guy they were probably completely stifling his development and harming his career earning potential at the same time.
It makes sense in a case like that, especially one where the team took a chance on someone and rehabbed them (at full pay) to make a handshake deal that benefits both parties. Some people are good for their word, others are Carlos Boozer.
I didn't realize Grant took less money. But yeah a million here or there isn't quite the same when you have already accumulated 15 million or so. Unless you're a moron and have spent it already.
It makes sense in a case like that, especially one where the team took a chance on someone and rehabbed them (at full pay) to make a handshake deal that benefits both parties. Some people are good for their word, others are Carlos Boozer.
I didn't realize Grant took less money. But yeah a million here or there isn't quite the same when you have already accumulated 15 million or so. Unless you're a moron and have spent it already.
WCS averaged 12pts 8reb and 2.4 ast last season and is considered a defensive shot blocker. he had one call for league minimum and was then traded for nothing. Harry is averaging 5pts 3 reb 1 ast and has a history of bad knees and is only starting because of injuries. Vlade did fine. we will get Giles back if we want him for far less than 4 million a year.