The Harry Giles option conundrum

We can only offer him up to the value of the option we declined, which was about $4M. (I don't recall exactly, it was $3.99M or something.) That is regardless of cap space or MLE or anything else. Doesn't matter how much we can offer other players. We are not allowed to give Giles a raise relative to what his rookie deal would have been, because other teams abused that loophole in the past to give their players a raise before their rookie deal was "over".
Can the Kings offer Giles a 3 or 4 year deal for the max increases, but give him a player option after year 2 or 3?

I think that would help the Kings retain him this summer, if they can.
 
We can only offer him up to the value of the option we declined, which was about $4M. (I don't recall exactly, it was $3.99M or something.) That is regardless of cap space or MLE or anything else. Doesn't matter how much we can offer other players. We are not allowed to give Giles a raise relative to what his rookie deal would have been, because other teams abused that loophole in the past to give their players a raise before their rookie deal was "over".
Damn I think teams will give him 4M unfortunately
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
While I like what Harry brings with the passing/passion the guy has to put on weight and get stronger in the offseason I seriously doubt he could hold his ground against the bigger SF/SG's in the post let alone PF/C's.
Lol, Give me a break with that. Giles is a dog. He gets beat on defense mainly on cuts and bad/slow rotations. While he’d probably still get overpowered by the biggest of guys he returns the fight and isn’t a pushover despite his small frame.
 
Way to go Harry! 27min Woot!!
He played better defense - more min
He got 12 rebounds - more min
Sas had some big dudes out there - more min
Only 2 fouls - more min
Belly had 4 fouls - more min

So now that you know what to do Harry - go get that playing time
Give him all the min he wants if he slows Giannis Monday!
I like Giles, but expecting him to slow down Giannis is lofty. Maybe if Giles hadn't had all those injuries.......in an alternative universe - but then he would've been drafted 1 to 3 and likely not a King.

The Kings will have to shoot a very high percentage to have a fair chance tomorrow. - just as a starting point. I may watch the game live - the first time in over a month.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
Can the Kings offer Giles a 3 or 4 year deal for the max increases, but give him a player option after year 2 or 3?

I think that would help the Kings retain him this summer, if they can.
As I understand, the restriction we have on Giles' contract is for first year of contract salary only. We are free to offer any (otherwise legal) contract that starts at or below that salary, so yes, we should be able to offer max raises and a five-year deal. Still, that would only mean a contract that looks about like: $4M, $4.32M, $4.64M, $4.96M, $5.28M - a total of $23.2M over 5 years. And only the last year of any deal can be a player option.

Still, that's not a ton of money compared to what teams with cap space can do...if anybody has realistic cap space, and if anybody wants to spend on Harry.

For my part, I feel like Harry would rather "bet on himself" and if he were to sign with us take a one year deal (or a one plus player option deal) and try again next year when we can offer significantly more. I just kind of doubt he would take 5/$23.2M, but I guess you never know what he would do and what other teams would offer.
 
For my part, I feel like Harry would rather "bet on himself" and if he were to sign with us take a one year deal (or a one plus player option deal) and try again next year when we can offer significantly more.

Yeah, that is what I am thinking too. With Giles knee history, teams may shy away from a big money contract, i.e. $8 mil+, multi-year contract. If so, the Kings may be able to sneak in and get a 2 year deal, with a player option and hopefully hang on to Harry.

Such a sad plight that the FO put the fans in, by not exercising Harry's paltry option. :(
 
Lol, Give me a break with that. Giles is a dog. He gets beat on defense mainly on cuts and bad/slow rotations. While he’d probably still get overpowered by the biggest of guys he returns the fight and isn’t a pushover despite his small frame.
If nothing else, I don't really worry about his slight frame, I'm more worried about the defensive assignments he missed and wonder if it is the same issue rookies or young players have which is to play faster than the game and get ahead of himself, or if it is more serious and prominent than that, which is to say maybe he is just a generally broad brush stroke kind of guy that is bound to be careless at times. (Think Buddy Hield)
 
As I understand, the restriction we have on Giles' contract is for first year of contract salary only. We are free to offer any (otherwise legal) contract that starts at or below that salary, so yes, we should be able to offer max raises and a five-year deal. Still, that would only mean a contract that looks about like: $4M, $4.32M, $4.64M, $4.96M, $5.28M - a total of $23.2M over 5 years. And only the last year of any deal can be a player option.

Still, that's not a ton of money compared to what teams with cap space can do...if anybody has realistic cap space, and if anybody wants to spend on Harry.

For my part, I feel like Harry would rather "bet on himself" and if he were to sign with us take a one year deal (or a one plus player option deal) and try again next year when we can offer significantly more. I just kind of doubt he would take 5/$23.2M, but I guess you never know what he would do and what other teams would offer.
The only thing that would make sense for both parties is if we agreed to a "golden handshake" sort of deal like a 3yr/13 mil with that 3rd year being a player option. Harry gets the guaranteed 5th and 6th year if things go bad with his knees and has the opportunity to hit UFA earlier than most (I guess he technically gets to this year, but I sincerely hope something has been worked out). We get potentially get a steal the 5th year of the contract with the ability to sign him to a big deal if he starts to ball out. If injuries happen, he's cheap enough that it's not a big deal.

The 1&1 is just giving all the leverage to Harry for no reason pretty much. I'm all for empowering players and all that, but just needlessly reckless with one of the most important young assets we have on the team. But hey, I guess if it works, it'd be a positive look for the FO that we value giving our player autonomy.
 
Lol, Give me a break with that. Giles is a dog. He gets beat on defense mainly on cuts and bad/slow rotations. While he’d probably still get overpowered by the biggest of guys he returns the fight and isn’t a pushover despite his small frame.
There's a difference between not being a pushover and playing good defense - it's called fouling.
 
As I understand, the restriction we have on Giles' contract is for first year of contract salary only. We are free to offer any (otherwise legal) contract that starts at or below that salary, so yes, we should be able to offer max raises and a five-year deal. Still, that would only mean a contract that looks about like: $4M, $4.32M, $4.64M, $4.96M, $5.28M - a total of $23.2M over 5 years. And only the last year of any deal can be a player option.

Still, that's not a ton of money compared to what teams with cap space can do...if anybody has realistic cap space, and if anybody wants to spend on Harry.

For my part, I feel like Harry would rather "bet on himself" and if he were to sign with us take a one year deal (or a one plus player option deal) and try again next year when we can offer significantly more. I just kind of doubt he would take 5/$23.2M, but I guess you never know what he would do and what other teams would offer.
Many professional athletes in many sports have inflated ideas of what they should be paid. Giles has gone through much injury-hardship and rehabilitation; I don't know if that alone will temper his desire for a 'big payday' or not. All he has to do is check out Greg Oden's story if wants some background on being injury plagued at the professional level for an entire shortened pro career. I love Giles passing ability - it is the best or 2nd on the team to Bjelica, He may always be a liability on defense like Bjelica, but has enough upside on offense to help you accept it. On the other end of things, making it big in the NBA doesn't mean you're financially indestructible (see Allen Iverson, or Antoine Walker). I think 5 years 20MM+ is a very good deal for Giles and fair for the Kings both, He's getting a chance for some solid minutes finally, and needs to continue to focus.
 
I don't think it's going to come to down to money, I'd say PT (as well as money) will be the deciding factors.

If he comes back to the Kings, he is #5 on the big men depth chart. A rebuilding team can say to Giles, "We'll pay you the same as the Kings, but we have a couple of open spots in our rotation. Or you can go back to Sacramento and plays 12 mins a game if they have a bunch of injuries again. What say you?"

If I have to guess, $4-5 millions for two years (with an option for the 2nd year) and a chance to play 20+ mins will be enough to lure Giles away. For that amount, he'd be a steal if he produces and a no-big-deal if he flops.

Also, he is the type of players that GMs love to sign away from other teams to show how smart they are - tons of potential, not well known, low salary, low risk, high return. This is the kind of FA signings that impress fans, 'Geez, where did (insert name of GM) find this kid? Sure, the defense is suspect but this kid can ball!"

.
 
I don't think it's going to come to down to money, I'd say PT (as well as money) will be the deciding factors.

If he comes back to the Kings, he is #5 on the big men depth chart. A rebuilding team can say to Giles, "We'll pay you the same as the Kings, but we have a couple of open spots in our rotation. Or you can go back to Sacramento and plays 12 mins a game if they have a bunch of injuries again. What say you?"

If I have to guess, $4-5 millions for two years (with an option for the 2nd year) and a chance to play 20+ mins will be enough to lure Giles away. For that amount, he'd be a steal if he produces and a no-big-deal if he flops.

Also, he is the type of players that GMs love to sign away from other teams to show how smart they are - tons of potential, not well known, low salary, low risk, high return. This is the kind of FA signings that impress fans, 'Geez, where did (insert name of GM) find this kid? Sure, the defense is suspect but this kid can ball!"

.

And we aren't trying to win now anyway!


If he can find a younger squad where he won't get pushed out of the rotation as he's learning then that would be best for him honestly. Vlades moves, or non-moves at the deadline really cement the fact that they feel they aren't far from where they want to be. But if they think they can fit 5 bigs on the squad then he's dead wrong and the wheels will come falling off in the locker room and on the floor before he can blink twice. Bagleys injury might be a saving grace on that front because almost everything statistically says that this team as a big team sucks the big one.
 
I look at it 2 ways. Either we have our golden handshake deal with Harry and he'll resign or Vlade gets fired for letting him walk. Either way, something positive comes out of the situation.
The Kings can only offer him a one year deal at around the $4 million dollar mark. He will get more than that in the open market. Someone will be willing to gamble on the talent. The Kings did something only the most incompetent of franchises are capable of.
 
The Kings can only offer him a one year deal at around the $4 million dollar mark. He will get more than that in the open market. Someone will be willing to gamble on the talent. The Kings did something only the most incompetent of franchises are capable of.
Let’s wait and see. Amick has all but confirmed that Vlade has lost decision making authority. I think that, with new management, it behooves Harry to stay a known environment and maintain bird rights. But, we’ll see.
 
Just gotta hope and pray his love for Sac is real. Fingers crossed.
Given his injury history, why would he take a one year low money level deal over a team offering something like three years $15-20 million? This is professional sports, there is no loyalty. Harry has to do what's best for he and his family. The Kings will get absolutely crucified when he leaves this summer. Pathetic.
 
Let’s wait and see. Amick has all but confirmed that Vlade has lost decision making authority. I think that, with new management, it behooves Harry to stay a known environment and maintain bird rights. But, we’ll see.
This isn't a good off-season to test the market for a guy like Giles anyway with so few teams having money. Would make sense for him to sign like a 2yr/8 mil deal with a player option to maintain bird rights with us and then get to hit UFA in summer 2021 when virtually everyone has a bunch of money. He gets more guaranteed money (with his injury history, not the worst idea) and gets to control his destiny if he wants test FA after another good year next year.

Again, this is me trying to justify a completely asinine move and make some sense of it. I do think Harry's love of Sac could play a part for sure in him staying.
 
Given his injury history, why would he take a one year low money level deal over a team offering something like three years $15-20 million? This is professional sports, there is no loyalty. Harry has to do what's best for he and his family. The Kings will get absolutely crucified when he leaves this summer. Pathetic.
I’ll wait until this offseason until I’m up in arms. I’ll keep convincing myself he loves it here enough to stay until then.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
This isn't a good off-season to test the market for a guy like Giles anyway with so few teams having money. Would make sense for him to sign like a 2yr/8 mil deal with a player option to maintain bird rights with us and then get to hit UFA in summer 2021 when virtually everyone has a bunch of money. He gets more guaranteed money (with his injury history, not the worst idea) and gets to control his destiny if he wants test FA after another good year next year.

Again, this is me trying to justify a completely asinine move and make some sense of it. I do think Harry's love of Sac could play a part for sure in him staying.
It should be noted that the sudden ratings apocalypse has completely thrown the offseason up into the air in terms fo available salary cap space. Teams also went crazy last offseason and killed most available capspace for this summer which means teams will be looking for bargains like Harry at 5 or 6 million a year, which probably isn't a huge enough increase over what we could offer him to completely draw him away from Sacramento. I mean, for reference, we got Holmes for 5 million dollars a year and he arguably had a better NBA track record than Harry will have after this season.
 
Let’s wait and see. Amick has all but confirmed that Vlade has lost decision making authority. I think that, with new management, it behooves Harry to stay a known environment and maintain bird rights. But, we’ll see.
That would be our best chance of keeping Giles this summer. We can offer him a two year guaranteed deal with a player option for year 2, starting at $4 million a year.

Hopefully, it will be unlikely for a team to offer a big money, long term contract (i.e. 3 years/$21 mil) to Harry on a half-season of injury free play, considering his long injury history.

Giles balls out next year and opts opt of the 2nd year with the Kings having full bird rights. After next season, the Kings can sign him to a much bigger deal. I would hope that this is the trump card that the Kings can offer Giles, that other teams can't.

Fingers crossed! ;)
 
That would be our best chance of keeping Giles this summer. We can offer him a two year guaranteed deal with a player option for year 2, starting at $4 million a year.

Hopefully, it will be unlikely for a team to offer a big money, long term contract (i.e. 3 years/$21 mil) to Harry on a half-season of injury free play, considering his long injury history.

Giles balls out next year and opts opt of the 2nd year with the Kings having full bird rights. After next season, the Kings can sign him to a much bigger deal. I would hope that this is the trump card that the Kings can offer Giles, that other teams can't.

Fingers crossed! ;)
No, he's best taking a 1 year deal. He can then sign a bigger/longer deal the next year and make up the difference of the 1 year deal.
 
The Kings can only offer him a one year deal at around the $4 million dollar mark. He will get more than that in the open market. Someone will be willing to gamble on the talent. The Kings did something only the most incompetent of franchises are capable of.
That remains to be seen. Declining the option was unwise. Whether or not a team offers him more money will really depend. Big men are less and less valuable.
 
No, he's best taking a 1 year deal. He can then sign a bigger/longer deal the next year and make up the difference of the 1 year deal.
A one year deal would not give the team signing him (besides the Kings) his Bird rights to sign him to a much bigger deal the following summer.

Considering his extensive injury history, I can't see teams guaranteeing more than say $6-$7 million/year on a 1 or 2 year flyer on Giles. Any other team signing him to a 1 year deal would not have Bird nor Early Bird rights.

A two year deal with the Kings would guarantee him about $9 million in the bank, whether he gets re-injured or not during the 1st year. If he balls out next year and stays healthy, he opts out and the Kings (with full bird rights) could in theory offer him something like a 3 year/$40 million contract.

So, in theory, Giles could opt for a 2 year/$14 million contract with another team OR he could opt for 2 year $ 9 million with the Kings. After the first year, he could opt out and have full bird rights with the Kings and sign a huge deal the following summer. If he signs with another team, he would have to wait until after year 2, to get a real pay day.

In theory, Giles could receive his big pay day 1 year earlier with the Kings (because of Bird Rights) than if he signed with any other team.
 
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A one year deal would not give the team signing him (besides the Kings) his Bird rights to sign him to a much bigger deal the following summer.

Considering his extensive injury history, I can't see teams guaranteeing more than say $6-$7 million/year on a 1 or 2 year flyer on Giles. Any other team signing him to a 1 year deal would not have Bird nor Early Bird rights.

A two year deal with the Kings would guarantee him about $9 million in the bank, whether he gets re-injured or not during the 1st year. If he balls out next year and stays healthy, he opts out and the Kings (with full bird rights) could in theory offer him something like a 3 year/$40 million contract.

So, in theory, Giles could opt for a 2 year/$14 million contract with another team OR he could opt for 2 year $ 9 million with the Kings. After the first year, he could opt and have full bird rights with the Kings and sign a huge deal the following summer. If he signs with another team, he would have to wait until after year 2, to get a real pay day.

In theory, Giles could receive his big pay day 1 year earlier with the Kings (because of early Bird Rights) than if he signed with any other team.
A 1 year deal with the Kings. Doesn't make sense for 2 years with the Kings. I said this in another thread. Using your numbers, a 2 year $14 million deal would need a 1 year $4 mil then a new deal starting at $10 mil makes up the lost money with the Kings.