Luka Doncic (the 'LET'S RE-LITIGATE THE PICK UNTO PERPETUITY~!' thread)
- Thread starter Hansel
- Start date
- Status
If Bagley turns into Anthony Davis then I'm with you there. If he turns into Paul Milsap or anything worse, I'll take Doncic.
It's much easier to find a rebounding center that can play defense and catch lobs than it is to find a player with Doncic's abilities. If I can get myself two all star caliber wings and then plug in a big man from free agency or lower in the draft, I'll do that every time because outside shooting and play making is much more important to the game these days than doing work down in the post. Big men that do big men things can be found all over the draft but players with Doncic's skills are normally found right near the top. Bagley is going to have to wind up being really special to justify it. We've seen him do some special things and we've seen him do some not so special things. He's not Embiid or AD or even Ayton right out of the box so it's going to take some patience to see if he develops like Fox has.
It's just if it was me, I would have gone the other route which I personally feel gives you the higher odds of building a complete team.
It's much easier to find a rebounding center that can play defense and catch lobs than it is to find a player with Doncic's abilities. If I can get myself two all star caliber wings and then plug in a big man from free agency or lower in the draft, I'll do that every time because outside shooting and play making is much more important to the game these days than doing work down in the post. Big men that do big men things can be found all over the draft but players with Doncic's skills are normally found right near the top. Bagley is going to have to wind up being really special to justify it. We've seen him do some special things and we've seen him do some not so special things. He's not Embiid or AD or even Ayton right out of the box so it's going to take some patience to see if he develops like Fox has.
It's just if it was me, I would have gone the other route which I personally feel gives you the higher odds of building a complete team.
Doncic has been decent, but there's a huge difference when you get to control the offense and all the minutes he can handle to work through any struggles. He controls the ball and the offense. So of course, he's going to look better than the 20+ MPG big who gets 6-7 minute stretches to do something and isn't the lead ball-handler.
I'm more annoyed that a few posters are so willing to decide that we made mistake 20 games in to their rookie year. Especially when Doncic hasn't been any sort of outlier for a rookie in terms of positive impact for his team yet ( -15.1 ON/OFF rating, massive TOV rate, .073 WS/48). He's in a situation where he controls the offense and a 30+ MPG role. Thought Mitchell got the same kind of leash last year.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yep he’s been a disappointment for me, flat out. He’s been showing nothing lately as well. Most concerning, I don’t have a confidence that Fox/Buddy for sure have a running mate going forward.
Would you like me to start a third party redraft thread, and IMO have the median for Bagley be 6 or lower? We will see which is the more objective stance
Would you like me to start a third party redraft thread, and IMO have the median for Bagley be 6 or lower? We will see which is the more objective stance
Last edited by a moderator:
I feel ya, I believe vlade went Bagley because he on the flip side feels we have a solid backcourt rotation and he wanted a young atletic big to be fox's running mate for the next decade. Thats vlades blueprint. It's what he knows best.
It wouldn't surprise me if vlades view and plan is to spend our cash on trading for or signing a star wing to fill our void, taking on the perception that they are available but a young athetic big with bagleys potential is not.
It wouldn't surprise me if vlades view and plan is to spend our cash on trading for or signing a star wing to fill our void, taking on the perception that they are available but a young athetic big with bagleys potential is not.
In the end, Bagley is going to be a big part of a playoff team here in Sac. He has star potential and he’s going to deliver on it. Bagley is awfully young and he’s just scratching the surface of his talent. Doncic as advertised has been more ready to play in the NBA but I think it’s also awfully early to be anointing him the best player in this draft. Might not be accurate in a year or two.
Meanwhile Luka just beat the Warriors (granted no Steph or Draymond) but 24 PTS, 9 REBS, 4 Assists with some clutch baskets and rebounds down the stretch is impressive.
Two things can be equally true.
1.) Marvin Bagley may very well still have a great future and still have been a great pick. That remains to be seen.
2.) Luka is much better right now and already appears to be a borderline all-star in his rookie season.
Time will tell if the Kings made the right pick or a good pick or not but one thing is for sure, Luka Doncic is a damn good player already and the Kings passed on a sure thing to take Bagley (who is a probable thing but not a sure thing)
Two things can be equally true.
1.) Marvin Bagley may very well still have a great future and still have been a great pick. That remains to be seen.
2.) Luka is much better right now and already appears to be a borderline all-star in his rookie season.
Time will tell if the Kings made the right pick or a good pick or not but one thing is for sure, Luka Doncic is a damn good player already and the Kings passed on a sure thing to take Bagley (who is a probable thing but not a sure thing)
They don't want to recognize his game because deep down they know the Kings probably blew the pick and as such they get defensive.
If not for the huge improvement from Fox (and to an extent Buddy/WCS) and the team in general this would absolutely be a major talking point right now. Also as the season goes on if the Kings record really starts to slide and Bagley doesn't start showing a lot more then this discussion is going to continue to be fueled.
I don't know how Luka would have gelled with Fox but one thing I do know is that both are very smart and unselfish players so I think they could have figured it out. Maybe both get off to a little bit slower starts (with shared responsibilities) but in the long run both would end up thriving. Smart players don't get held down and the cream always rises to the top.
If not for the huge improvement from Fox (and to an extent Buddy/WCS) and the team in general this would absolutely be a major talking point right now. Also as the season goes on if the Kings record really starts to slide and Bagley doesn't start showing a lot more then this discussion is going to continue to be fueled.
I don't know how Luka would have gelled with Fox but one thing I do know is that both are very smart and unselfish players so I think they could have figured it out. Maybe both get off to a little bit slower starts (with shared responsibilities) but in the long run both would end up thriving. Smart players don't get held down and the cream always rises to the top.
You know what impresses me about Luka? That Luka is not impressing me at all, he's just performing his solid basketball and it works great already.
No 35 points games, no triple double games,... You can see he's not a normal rookie, he's not driven by emotions. No ups and downs, just doing his business.
No 35 points games, no triple double games,... You can see he's not a normal rookie, he's not driven by emotions. No ups and downs, just doing his business.
since when did individual success > team success? The Kings are playing .500 ball right now, that may change in another week after they've piled up more losses but the fact remains, no players success is more important than the Kings organization building a culture around winning and playing the right way, moving the ball and playing team defense.
Of course not, that's not what I said. Counting stats are byproduct of how much you get the ball and how long you get to be on the court. That's it. What matters is what you actually do in those minutes (Scoring efficiency,how many available rebounds do you get, how often are you involved in playmaking opportunities, how often you turn the ball over, how often you get to the free throw line etc).
Justin Jackson currently has a 12% USG rate. So if we decided "hey you know what Justin, you're the man and the #1 now, go at it" and he all of a sudden comes through with a 26% USG rate and 33 minutes, he'd have a decent looking counting stat line too. That's the point.
Justin Jackson currently has a 12% USG rate. So if we decided "hey you know what Justin, you're the man and the #1 now, go at it" and he all of a sudden comes through with a 26% USG rate and 33 minutes, he'd have a decent looking counting stat line too. That's the point.
In 33.7 Minutes Per Game Luka Doncic is averaging:
19.5 PPG
6.6 RPG
4.2 APG
3.9 TO
0.9 STL
.467 FG% and .38 3-PT %
All of the above as a 19 year old rookie with the ball in his hands a lot........I'll take it and who the hell wouldn't take those numbers?
Other than the high turnovers where is the problem? Where is the inefficiency? His FG% is pretty good for a perimeter player that is mostly creating his own shot. Rebounding numbers are fine for a wing player playing SF. Assists are high for a SF (granted he's a point-forward).
Y'all are impossible. We are muucch better than most expected this year. Let us just enjoy something good for once instead of wondering about two draft pick 16 games into their respective careers. It is almost as though some of you would prefer we were a dumpster fire so we could more angrily rant and whine about the lack of Doncic. Quite frankly it is disappointing.
I'll leave it alone since you aren't listening to anything I'm saying.
Doncic 3pt volume and overall efficiency has been surprisingly great. And while the rebounding is excellent if he were a wing, he's almost exclusively played as the 4 on defense, which leaves his 11% TRB as weak for the position.
I'm not even bashing Doncic really. He has a couple points working in his favor so far this year that make him look like a future star absolutely. But I'm not going to pretend he's some outlier rookie in terms of impact when he really hasn't been close. And the fact that his counting stats are fueled by his role and minutes. I will agree that him even having the role and producing at his efficiency levels is really impressive as well.
Doncic 3pt volume and overall efficiency has been surprisingly great. And while the rebounding is excellent if he were a wing, he's almost exclusively played as the 4 on defense, which leaves his 11% TRB as weak for the position.
I'm not even bashing Doncic really. He has a couple points working in his favor so far this year that make him look like a future star absolutely. But I'm not going to pretend he's some outlier rookie in terms of impact when he really hasn't been close. And the fact that his counting stats are fueled by his role and minutes. I will agree that him even having the role and producing at his efficiency levels is really impressive as well.
- Status