2016 NBA Draft Discussion

[hrdboild]

I agree, I think the best way to describe Lee is "solid". In a perfect world we would get Bazemore but I don't think he will come here and therefore I wonder if it would make more sense to focus on Lee as a priority. Another option would be Shumpert via trade. Who else you got?

Regarding Anderson, the interesting thing about Anderson for me is not even his 3 point Shooting but his ability to give his team a first option on offense. He would anchor our bench and give us a first option when Cousins misses some games because of injuries. We all know our record without Cousins. With Anderson and Willie beside him I would at least expect us to have a chance. He is also a good teammate and finished top five in teammate of the Year voting. The question is: how much is all that worth? 12 million? 15 million? 18 million?

Iman Shumpert is my #1 target. He's a reliably strong individual defender. He's also a little younger (25) and already signed for 3 years so you've got stability there and some promise of upside. He's not bringing as much to the table as a shooter -- I would expect around 33-34% from three but he's only been in the league 5 years and one of those years he shot 40% from deep so it's possible he grows into a more consistent jumper with the right coaching/teammates.

Allen Crabbe is a restricted free agent and he'll be a more expensive sign than Lee, but he's got a good combination of upside (still just 24) and production. He showed last season that he can knock down the three consistently. A bit of a mixed bag on defense this season, but he's got good size for the position and showed some flashes of potential there. He's about average right now but could develop into a plus defender as he matures.

The wing player I'd be interested in trading for from the Grizzlies would be Lance Stephenson. Obviously you have the character concerns -- he was terrible in Charlotte, he didn't fit in well with the team culture in LA -- but Joerger had good things to say about him and when he's motivated, he's a dynamic offensive player and a difference maker on defense. Still inconsistent with the three, but he's trending up (33% in 2013, 35% in 2014, whatever happened in Charlotte in 2015, and then 38% this season) and the bonus would be his playmaking ability that makes it easier to run a shooter like Seth Curry as your primary backup PG.

I could try to think of more, but those are the ones that come to mind. League-wide the selection of shooting guards is pretty poor in general right now.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Iman Shumpert is my #1 target. He's a reliably strong individual defender. He's also a little younger (25) and already signed for 3 years so you've got stability there and some promise of upside. He's not bringing as much to the table as a shooter -- I would expect around 33-34% from three but he's only been in the league 5 years and one of those years he shot 40% from deep so it's possible he grows into a more consistent jumper with the right coaching/teammates.

Allen Crabbe is a restricted free agent and he'll be a more expensive sign than Lee, but he's got a good combination of upside (still just 24) and production. He showed last season that he can knock down the three consistently. A bit of a mixed bag on defense this season, but he's got good size for the position and showed some flashes of potential there. He's about average right now but could develop into a plus defender as he matures.

The wing player I'd be interested in trading for from the Grizzlies would be Lance Stephenson. Obviously you have the character concerns -- he was terrible in Charlotte, he didn't fit in well with the team culture in LA -- but Joerger had good things to say about him and when he's motivated, he's a dynamic offensive player and a difference maker on defense. Still inconsistent with the three, but he's trending up (33% in 2013, 35% in 2014, whatever happened in Charlotte in 2015, and then 38% this season) and the bonus would be his playmaking ability that makes it easier to run a shooter like Seth Curry as your primary backup PG.

I could try to think of more, but those are the ones that come to mind. League-wide the selection of shooting guards is pretty poor in general right now.

Shump could be possible with the JR money blues, maybe they take Ben back, were interested in KK earlier.

I also agree he may be able to spot up more consistently over time, and you could say the .402 was an anomaly, I see it more as potential like yourself.

He's a real big guard.

Injury concerns are legit though.

 

[The Hammer]

Curious, what is cognizant about drafting raw players at positions we don't need?

And we aren't drafting at all like the Spurs. They stash guys that they don't need since they are stacked or pick talented upper classmen that slide to later in the first. We didn't do that.

We drafted/obtained multiple first round picks and drafted them based on longterm/extensive knowledge of the players. This is always a "need". This is actually a very low risk approach. Riskier would have been to draft for need at 8 and pray they don't bust. Less risky is to draft multiple players, based on good scouting, even if some don't come over this year. NBA doesn't have a farm system. What we did this year is the equivalent of investing in a farm system. All you alarmists just lost your right to complain that we never develop players. We got 4 players out of this draft. If ONE becomes an NBA started/6th man... it's a win. Some of the teams that drafted in the lottery won't even come out of it with a rotation player. Vlade is now on record as saying Papa as all star potential. Sure, every GM is gonna hype up his picks... but Vlade is not really a hype guy. He's big on him, sure, because he drafted him. But frankly I LIKE the fact that I had never heard of any of the guys we drafted. To me it's a sign that we drafted them for a reason, there were very specific things that Vlade saw in these guys... not because they were high on some bloggers draft board.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If he'd just sat out a year like Thon Maker did instead of going to Kentucky he would have been a top 10 pick.

While I'm not super excited about Skal - precisely because of his poor season at Kentucky - this is an important point. Skal has looked very good at every level until college. Had he sat the year out, we might well be looking at Skal on a #8 scale contract and feeling good about it, instead of looking at Skal on a #28 contract with lower pressure, and Papagiannis, and Bogdanovic, and a future 2nd. There's a decent chance Skal busts. But we can afford that chance at #28.

 

[bajaden]

Okay, I haven't read the thousands of other comments, so I may be misunderstanding...

We didn't draft DMC's brother Jaleel. We drafted Isaiah Cousins who, to my knowledge, is no relationship to Demarcus. Am I missing something?

That's correct, but it was assumed that Jaleel would be signed to the Kings summer league team since he said that Joerger told him he would be seeing a lot of him. Just an assumption of course. I was making a joke about the fact that with Willie, Papagiannis, Labrissiere, and with Gudiatos coming to play on our summer league team, it doesn't look like there would be any minutes left over for Jaleel.

 

[bajaden]

I have a hard time getting excited about Courtney Lee. He only projects to give us Ben McLemore level production. Granted consistent game-to-game production instead of the roulette wheel of misfortune Ben has subjected us to is worth paying a little extra for, but I see better options out there. Then again, Joerger is already familiar with Courtney Lee and he's got a solid career 3pt percentage. I can see why Lee/Anderson makes sense, I'm just not obsessed with acquiring 3pt shooters when our biggest problems lie elsewhere. I'd rather have a better defender at that SG position and a more well-rounded PF who can play inside and out, set hard screens, and rebound instead of a 3pt specialist like Ryno.

I think it should be pointed out that Lee has been a good defender when in the right system. One plus, as you pointed out is that Joerger and Lee are very familiar with one another. He's a solid three point shooter. One thing is for sure, he would be an upgrade over what we had last season.

 

[funkykingston]

While I'm not super excited about Skal - precisely because of his poor season at Kentucky - this is an important point. Skal has looked very good at every level until college. Had he sat the year out, we might well be looking at Skal on a #8 scale contract and feeling good about it, instead of looking at Skal on a #28 contract with lower pressure, and Papagiannis, and Bogdanovic, and a future 2nd. There's a decent chance Skal busts. But we can afford that chance at #28.

Yeah, at this point Labissiere is essentially taking Eric Moreland's roster spot. And for about the same amount of money. If he develops, awesome. If not, he's still a low cost guy that occupies the 15th roster slot. For a guy that people were debating as the preseason #1 against Ben Simmons, that's a great gamble to take.

 

[kingsboi]

He has a reputation as a good defender -- mostly stemming from one good playoff series against Cleveland in his rookie year. But if you look at his whole career, he's been average at best on that end of the floor. If you draw a line between Ben's good days and Ben's bad days, Courtney Lee is basically that line. Not a scorer but he'll hit open shots. Not an impact defender, but he's better than terrible (which I suppose qualifies him as an upgrade in Kings land...)

I'm with you on Courtney Lee. Not really seeing how he is such a big improvement, I mean he's changed teams six times all ready since being drafted back in 2008....so there must be a reason why he doesn't stick with a team more than two or three seasons. I hope Vlade is weighing more options out there but if it comes down to having Lee or Ben, I'd lean more towards Ben and hope he turns it around with Dave.

 

[kingsboi]

I think calling Ryan a 3pt specialist is misleading. He has always been a good post player who can also shoot 3s. He doesn't play like Channing Frye.

Anderson can take it inside and out, he is versatile. He is a chucker though. He would be a good fit for Cleveland to replace Kevin Love.

 

[bajaden]

He's negative value on the defensive end of the court and a below average rebounder at his position. He may not be a one-dimensional shooter, but you're not paying him $17 million dollars a year for any other reason than he knocks down 3 pt shots. I'd say that makes him a specialist. Regardless of the terminology though, he's just not a guy I want as our last big in the rotation. With other teams trending smaller we can get away with Omri at the 4 spot in stretches if we need more shooting on the floor. Cauley-Stein is a lot of things but he's not really a banger in the post. I really want a rebounder/post defender down there to take some of the pressure off of Cousins defensively. Especially if we're not spending money to upgrade the perimeter defense situation.

Actually Anderson's rebounding depends on how he's used. He is in fact, a very good rebounder if you play him strictly at PF and let him post up more than sit on the perimeter and shoot three's. He was third in the PAC 10 in rebounding at Cal his sophmore year. Although most people think of him as a PF, he plays mostly on the perimeter now, and it's hard to be a great rebounder from out there. If you look at him from the perspective of a SF, then his rebound numbers look fine. I think if you play him strictly at PF, then his defense improves as well. He struggles when has to guard SF's.

 

[dude12]

He has a reputation as a good defender -- mostly stemming from one good playoff series against Cleveland in his rookie year. But if you look at his whole career, he's been average at best on that end of the floor. If you draw a line between Ben's good days and Ben's bad days, Courtney Lee is basically that line. Not a scorer but he'll hit open shots. Not an impact defender, but he's better than terrible (which I suppose qualifies him as an upgrade in Kings land...)

Enough guys are stating he's average that I had to go back and research this as I believe he's way better than average. Read these 2 articles on Lee. One is from 2014 and one is from just this past year when he was with Charlotte and gives some defensive numbers.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/new...tney-lees-defense-ep-307078964-326060061.html

http://www.atthehive.com/2016/3/6/11167418/courtney-lees-impact-as-a-perimeter-defender


Lee is a guy we absolutely would want.

 

[bajaden]

While I'm not super excited about Skal - precisely because of his poor season at Kentucky - this is an important point. Skal has looked very good at every level until college. Had he sat the year out, we might well be looking at Skal on a #8 scale contract and feeling good about it, instead of looking at Skal on a #28 contract with lower pressure, and Papagiannis, and Bogdanovic, and a future 2nd. There's a decent chance Skal busts. But we can afford that chance at #28.

Yeah, I look at him as a very low risk, but very high reward guy. He is very skilled. His problem is that he can't play in a crowd at the moment, and that's what Calapari wanted him to do. If you use him strictly as a face up player, you might get some use out of him sooner than later.

 

[kingsboi]

Enough guys are stating he's average that I had to go back and research this as I believe he's way better than average. Read these 2 articles on Lee. One is from 2014 and one is from just this past year when he was with Charlotte and gives some defensive numbers.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/new...tney-lees-defense-ep-307078964-326060061.html

http://www.atthehive.com/2016/3/6/11167418/courtney-lees-impact-as-a-perimeter-defender


Lee is a guy we absolutely would want.

If he has such an impact as a perimeter defender, I'm sure Charlotte will do everything in their power to retain the guy and not let him get away.

 

[kingsboi]

Yeah, I look at him as a very low risk, but very high reward guy. He is very skilled. His problem is that he can't play in a crowd at the moment, and that's what Calapari wanted him to do. If you use him strictly as a face up player, you might get some use out of him sooner than later.

Really goes back to playing to your strengths. Hopefully new personnel on this team can help polish the skills he all ready does possess and then expand from there.

 

[dude12]

If he has such an impact as a perimeter defender, I'm sure Charlotte will do everything in their power to retain the guy and not let him get away.

They got lots of FAs....they can't get all of them back and there is a reason they traded for Bellinelli.......I think they know Lee will be out of reach.

 

[bajaden]

Enough guys are stating he's average that I had to go back and research this as I believe he's way better than average. Read these 2 articles on Lee. One is from 2014 and one is from just this past year when he was with Charlotte and gives some defensive numbers.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/new...tney-lees-defense-ep-307078964-326060061.html

http://www.atthehive.com/2016/3/6/11167418/courtney-lees-impact-as-a-perimeter-defender


Lee is a guy we absolutely would want.

Yeah I like Lee, and suggested him as a target a couple of weeks ago. You can't just look at a players defensive rating and pass judgement. If you watch him play, you can see that he's a good defender regardless of what the stats say. Too often defensive and offensive stats are affected by who your playing with. But your eyes don't lie.

 

[kingsboi]

They got lots of FAs....they can't get all of them back and there is a reason they traded for Bellinelli.......I think they know Lee will be out of reach.

so they don't value defense then?

 

[bajaden]

Really goes back to playing to your strengths. Hopefully new personnel on this team can help polish the skills he all ready does possess and then expand from there.

As I said, put Labissiere in the weight room with a lot of food and a trainer, and lock the door. In a year you might have a hell of a player. If not, throw him out with the left over food.

 

[kingsboi]

As I said, put Labissiere in the weight room with a lot of food and a trainer, and lock the door. In a year you might have a hell of a player. If not, throw him out with the left over food.

You would only give him a year? One of the easiest things players can do is put on weight, they have top of the line trainers and nutritionists. I'm not worried at all from that perspective. It's his work ethic that will define him as a player.

 

[dude12]

Yeah I like Lee, and suggested him as a target a couple of weeks ago. You can't just look at a players defensive rating and pass judgement. If you watch him play, you can see that he's a good defender regardless of what the stats say. Too often defensive and offensive stats are affected by who your playing with. But your eyes don't lie.

I'd go so far that if we sign him and Rondo and Curry to go with the remainder of our team that we have currently, then we could push into the playoffs. Replace Koufos with Anderson and we are even better.

 

[bajaden]

I'd go so far that if we sign him and Rondo and Curry to go with the remainder of our team that we have currently, then we could push into the playoffs. Replace Koufos with Anderson and we are even better.

I don't think Rondo is coming back, despite what Vlade said. Vlade didn't bring Rondo up, but was asked if he was still interested in resigning Rondo. What is he supposed to say to that. Of course he's going to say he'd love to have him back, depending on the cost. And for the right price, that may well be true. However I think the amount that Vlade has in mind is different than the amount Rondo has in mind. Plus, I'll say it again. Both Vlade and Joerger have stated they want more ball movement. You will not get more ball movement with Rondo. Take the ball out of his hands, and he's nothing special. That's not a criticism, just a fact about the kind of PG Rondo is.

 

[Telemachus]

If he has such an impact as a perimeter defender, I'm sure Charlotte will do everything in their power to retain the guy and not let him get away.

Don't forget that MKG will be back this season.

 

[kingsboi]

Don't forget that MKG will be back this season.

While true, the injury history for the guy is not on his side. Dependability.

 

[Tetsujin]

Don't forget that MKG will be back this season.

And they traded for Marco... and still have to re-sign half their team.

 

[Gilles]

Dude unless one of our Dunn or Hield slid to 8 there are no other players that would have helped us win starting next season.

Baldwin is no better as a back up PG in the NBA than Seth Curry is. Curry certainly helps more if we are talking about a win now mode.

Luwawu is a project. I bet you have not seen a single game he played for Mega Leks. He is not ready to contribute to a play off team in his rookie season. Nice prospect but c'mon.

I can't comment on Murray because I have not seen him play.

We basically got four 1st round picks for pick 8 and Bellineli. We had no youth other than WCS and McLemore. With 3 of the 4 first round picks we went for high upside picks to fill out the end of the roster.

McLemore will be traded and Richardson becomes the rookie SG with high upside who will not get much playing time but will be in development year.

Kosta is very likely to be traded in order to sign Anderson to try and get a more flexible 3 man big rotation that will get most of the minutes.

Essentially, Papagiannis, Richardson and Skal are 3 high upside picks that will take the spots of Moreland, Dukan et al. We are increasing the talent pool and asset base from the bottom of the list up. The rest gets filled up during the free agency and with trades.

Bottom line is unless you were picking top 6 or if cards fell you way, you could get players to help you now. We didn't get the break so we did what any smart franchise does, trade down, increase asset base and in a weak draft go for high risk high reward picks. We are talking 3-4 roster spots on a 15 spot roster. Good play off teams go 10 deep and fill out the bottom of their roster with rookies and youth.

People fall in love with certain picks and all hell breaks loose if we don't pick those players. The job of the the GM is to look at both short and long term. He realized that we have no young prospects and little picks coming in next 1-2 years so he needed to take that into account at some point.

By trading Bellinelli and trading down, we have cleared additional cap space to go and get role players that fit. Not only did we unload Bellineli on Charlotte for a 1st round pick, but we also made it harder for them to re-sign Lee given all the FA they want to bring back.

Again, unless we were drafting Dunn and maybe Hield, no other player would be instant help so I am not sure why people are going nuts over it. In a crap draft, swing for the fences. You can always get role players in the free agency but small market teams get stars via the draft.

Dunn might be a lot of help with all those TOs he's racking up. Who wants Ramon Sessions? And rookie Hield might not be better than current Anthony Morrow.
And Baldwin has raw PG game, but a lot of positive markers, and all of his negatives are not prohibitive or even limiting.
I remember, a bit of philosophical debate couple of years ago with Brick bringing the point, that most coaches being guards don't really appreciate big men, and for some ideal big is "defend, and get out of the way on offense". In Vlade's case it might be the opposite as he recognizes talented bigs pretty quickly and appreciates them.
Papas is a talented player, but he is also a true center. How much impact will he have on a team with healthy Boogie? Anyone sees him being playable for more than 20 minutes, if he pans out? In this sense we should all root for Skal to live up to his early promise (fat chance!).

...This of course assumes Rudy Gay is out of the picture, which I think seems quite likely as he and KK are our biggest trade assets. Also, Rudy is suddenly on a great looking contract for a career 18-20ppg scorer. These guys don't grow on trees.

But seemingly everyone here wants to get rid of him.
And no, Anderson has no chance at SF: easier to guard and would be a constant problem chasing smaller guys.

 

[ockingsfan]

Yeah, I look at him as a very low risk, but very high reward guy. He is very skilled. His problem is that he can't play in a crowd at the moment, and that's what Calapari wanted him to do. If you use him strictly as a face up player, you might get some use out of him sooner than later.

Do you think skal can develop into a very tall and long small forward?

His skill set and frame seems to me more like a small forward than power forward.

If he can develop his 3 point shot, I think he could be a taller version of Kevin Durant.

 

[KingsFan80]

If we kept Chriss at 8, then we wouldn't have the 13th pick.

I was saying either we keep Chriss and draft the 22nd pick or we trade Chriss then take Baldwin at 13, Richardons at 22 and Skal at 22. That would have made this draft a success

 

[KingsFan80]

Joe Kleine was picked 6th.

I'm curious would you rather have the resurrection of Big Joe, or George & Skal and a future 2nd?

Skal will be a better pro player than our 13th pick. Mark it down.

 

[Mass]

I was saying either we keep Chriss and draft the 22nd pick or we trade Chriss then take Baldwin at 13, Richardons at 22 and Skal at 22. That would have made this draft a success

How do you know? How can you judge players who have still to step foot on an NBA court? What makes you think that Baldwin will be a great player and Papagiannis a bust? Have you seen Papagiannis play? Because honestly I haven't. And that's why I don't feel like I can judge this kid with the info I have.
Can we all agree that maybe Vlade has some more information about these players than we do, and maybe we should just hold our judgment for now?

 

[Telemachus]

I was saying either we keep Chriss and draft the 22nd pick or we trade Chriss then take Baldwin at 13, Richardons at 22 and Skal at 22. That would have made this draft a success

Successful in who's opinion? I wanted the Kings to take Baldwin because I think he can be good in the future. However, I liked the potential of Cameron Payne in last year's draft more, and he did nothing in his rookie season.

3 years from now, we could have a solid player in Papagiannis while Baldwin struggling to find minutes, or it could be reversed. We will have to wait to find out. The truth is that there were only about 5 players in this draft who are likely to be immediately helpful this season IMO. They were all gone by the time we picked.