[Grades] Grades v. Spurs 11/9/2015

[mac]

The only coach worth keeping he bonded with and loved and a gerbil sent that coach packing

Well then maybe we should be asking why it is that there's only this one coach in the entire world who Cousins actually respects and likes. If it's so hard to win with this HOF talent then maybe we should go a different route? It may not even be Cousins' fault, but say if you've only got a pool of coaches who know how to play smallball and don't know how to utilize a big man then it still remains easier to win with a smallball system and coach than with Cousins and a coach who doesn't know how to use him.

But I'm sure we'll turn this around... right?

 

[randymoss1881]

Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones 38s39 seconds ago
The changing lineups has been frustrating for players. Acy started last game, didn't play at all today. Ben up and down, for example.

Lol Karl is a ****ing moron players in high school would revolt too if they had rotations like that.
I for one am happy the players don't agree with the nonsense that is our defensive schemes like switch picks for no reason. Karl has to go and he has to go now not after the season now.

Anyway good time for a meeting

 

[randymoss1881]

Well then maybe we should be asking why it is that there's only this one coach in the entire world who Cousins actually respects and likes. If it's so hard to win with this HOF talent then maybe we should go a different route? It may not even be Cousins' fault, but say if you've only got a pool of coaches who know how to play smallball and don't know how to utilize a big man then it still remains easier to win with a smallball system and coach than with Cousins and a coach who doesn't know how to use him.

But I'm sure we'll turn this around... right?

I know your not talking about trading a player cause an idiot coach doesn't know how to use the franchise player. Coach Pop has tailored and changed his system multiple times to fit his players. If DMC was traded for Curry tommorow you wouldn't see GS play like they do they'ed switch to fit the players.

 

[kennadog]

We can talk about lineups and offensive/defensive schemes, but can any one explain why this damn team sucks horribly at the free throw line? It's pathetic.

 

[Bricklayer]

This doesn't have to be anything so dramatic as a player revolt or fire the coach thing. But it could be a players talk it out, figure out a united set of desires, and go to the coach and ask for some changes thing. Whether that "ask" would be a "demand", or whether a stubborn old coach like Karl would just go along with it in the interests of making this work or not, who knows. Maybe we find out.

There still appears to be enough talent on the floor to do some things, just very clearly not all on the same page.

 

[KingMilz]

If there is issues with the team it's Rudy Gay and Rondo............

#Rudy does not matter where you play him SF/PF you know two things he's going to take horrific shots and not play any defense
#Rondo liked the fact he battled but he doesn't make anyone better and he kills floor spacing and his defense for the most part other than reaching in is.......
#Cousins good to see him back look good next to Willie for stretches but his inner Josh Smith keeps taking over with TO's and horrid shot selection
#WCS liked what I saw him and Cousins can be something really nice
#Kosta good mins
#Casspi played very well our best wing player this year which is a massive concern
#SG's........no comment needed.
#Karl seriously needs to stop pulling Willie from games the kid can ball and is super disruptive other teams.

I think we can still salvage the season DMC/WCS is a terrific duo to build around but man we need the right pieces rather than big names that play no defense and put up empty stats.

 

[KingMilz]

Ailene Voisin

✔@ailene_voisin
Cousins referred to internal and non-basketball issues, though Gay expanded the scope, said offensive, defensive schemes need to be examined

Boy never thought I would see those words go together

 

[mac]

I know your not talking about trading a player cause an idiot coach doesn't know how to use the franchise player. Coach Pop has tailored and changed his system multiple times to fit his players. If DMC was traded for Curry tommorow you wouldn't see GS play like they do they'ed switch to fit the players.

My line of argument (and I'm playing devil's advocate here) is more like ... If there are 40 legitimate choices for head coaches in the league, out of whom most of the good ones are taken up and so effectively you only have 4-5 coaches to choose from, and those 4-5 happen to be "idiot" coaches who don't know how to design a system around a dominant big man, then you're better off going with getting players that they do know how to design a system around. Because right now it seems that every single coach we've had (other than Malone), and we've had plenty, either isn't a good coach, or is a good coach who doesn't know how to use Cuz, or is a decent coach who knows how to use Cuz but who Cuz won't get along with (I put Westphal in this category). And that Malone ship has sailed. So are you going to keep bringing in new coach after new coach hoping they stick? Other teams have made much larger strides with far less talent.

Side note on Pop: He's one of the greatest coaches of all time. If we're depending on lucking into a coach like that just to make the frikin playoffs we're going to be waiting for a long time. We arguably have a coach in Karl that's at least somewhat in that realm of elite coaches, but then now people aren't happy that he supposedly doesn't know how to use Cuz. Also, while Pop has changed his system multiple times his players have also adapted and grown to fit whatever new styles.

 

[King Baller]

How many times this season have the Kings ended a defensive stand running out on an open 3 point shooter? Too many for it to be the players, the scheme is leaving 3 point shooters wide open time after time. Time to change the defensive scheme because it is not working

I almost made this rant when Cousins went out with the strained achilles. Pace is dumb. Slow this freaking team down. It does not matter how many points you score, it only matters that you score more than the other team! This is not the GSW folks. Walk the ball up, pass it to Cousins, Koufos or Rudy inside and let them bang the heck out of the small ball defenders. If the defense stacks inside then pass to an open shooter. If your best player is Cousins and you need him in the game to win why run him so hard??? You can still run out on rebounds but if the shot is not there back it out and run the sets.

Settle on a rotation. Is the coaching staff really this backward about how the players minds work? I don't think so........

Lastly Karl and all that coaching talent sitting there collecting paychecks must know all of this. Karl or one of those assistants needs to take the reins and play a different brand of Basketball.

Thibs is out there, that is all I am saying.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I dont't care about our offensive playstyle. Go ahead Karl - push the damn pace, if this is what you think leads to more wins.
All I care about is our defense and the amount of broken plays and miscommunications, that cost us game after game. Wether it's Belli dribbling the ball of his knee, Rondo throwing passes right into the hands of the opposing team, Cuz dribbling into traffic, Rudy being lose with his dribble, Ben stumbling while driving straight, useless switches, that end up with Rondo guarding Pierce or Griffin or Belli and Rudy leaving 3point shooters wide open, because they are not on the same page while switching matchups - this has to stop.

Yesterday I saw a couple of very good plays designed for Belli, that led to wide open looks for our best shooter. And I saw a team, that was over all decent, when defending 5vs5 after made baskets. 3 quarters looked like a step into the right direction.
But in the 4th we played like the 76ers again.
I think the main reason is that we added so many new players. But actually this is not an excuse, when you have a whole training camp and preseason to get on track.
We are a veteran team, but we don't have a strong system to fall back to, when under pressure. Players try to win games going 1vs5, the ball stops moving, we take bad shot after bad shot and turn the ball over. And this happens every time, when the opponents trying to close the quarter strong and lock us down.

We need to fix this fast, or this season will be just another disappointment.

 

[Chubbs]

So how's the tried and true method of selecting a coach based on fan sign volume working out?

The danger of yanking starters after 2/3 games was dissent among the players. Benching Ben started the merry-go-round. If the team's core wanted a change at sg, that's one thing. If the core (currently rondo, boogie and gay, for better or worse) were planning on Ben and were solidly on team Ben, (and team wcs for that matter) then that's another thing. Starting acy just really made no sense.

The players are lost, confused what they're running, unfamiliar with the players they're playing with, and it shows in sporadic effort. There's just no consistency in rotations. Part of that is injuries (one healthy pg is a problem). Part of that is teaching young Willie lessons that hopefully pay dividends later. Another huge part is an unforgiving schedule.

Perhaps most significantly this is simply having a roster ill suited to the style they're attempting.

 

[mac]

I dont't care about our offensive playstyle. Go ahead Karl - push the damn pace, if this is what you think leads to more wins.
All I care about is our defense and the amount of broken plays and miscommunications, that cost us game after game. Wether it's Belli dribbling the ball of his knee, Rondo throwing passes right into the hands of the opposing team, Cuz dribbling into traffic, Rudy being lose with his dribble, Ben stumbling while driving straight, useless switches, that end up with Rondo guarding Pierce or Griffin or Belli and Rudy leaving 3point shooters wide open, because they are not on the same page while switching matchups - this has to stop.

Yesterday I saw a couple of very good plays designed for Belli, that led to wide open looks for our best shooter. And I saw a team, that was over all decent, when defending 5vs5 after made baskets. 3 quarters looked like a step into the right direction.
But in the 4th we played like the 76ers again.
I think the main reason is that we added so many new players. But actually this is not an excuse, when you have a whole training camp and preseason to get on track.
We are a veteran team, but we don't have a strong system to fall back to, when under pressure. Players try to win games going 1vs5, the ball stops moving, we take bad shot after bad shot and turn the ball over. And this happens every time, when the opponents trying to close the quarter strong and lock us down.

We need to fix this fast, or this season will be just another disappointment.

I think we need a game against a team like Detroit/Minnesota to gauge just how good we are. Collapses in the 4th quarter can also be attributed to elite teams stepping up and taking control of the game. I do think the little things like getting back in transition when the score is close in the 4th separate the good teams from the not so good teams. Complaining to refs/ just being slow to get back are signs of a weak team. We know we can "compete" with the best when we play and execute well, but so can at least 20 other teams. That's not good enough to be in the playoff conversation. Hence the need for games against more "level" competition.

 

[ESP47]

The only guy out there I see giving it 100% all game is Belinelli. The guy puts in EFFORT night in and night out.

Would be nice to see everyone playing like him. Tired of giving up 2 points every time Cousins doesn't get a call and allows his teammates to have to play 4v5 on the defensive end. Tired of seeing them switching on every screen so we end up with massive mismatches all over the place. Tired of seeing these guys all playing out of position on the court. Just tired of watching a square peg trying to be shoved into a round hole.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I think we need a game against a team like Detroit/Minnesota to gauge just how good we are. Collapses in the 4th quarter can also be attributed to elite teams stepping up and taking control of the game. I do think the little things like getting back in transition when the score is close in the 4th separate the good teams from the not so good teams. Complaining to refs/ just being slow to get back are signs of a weak team. We know we can "compete" with the best when we play and execute well, but so can at least 20 other teams. That's not good enough to be in the playoff conversation. Hence the need for games against more "level" competition.

Actually the games versus the Clippers, Warriors and Spurs were winnable and were lost by unforced errors and bad habits.
The whole issue with Cuz not getting back is a bit overblown for me. Of course he should stop arguing with the refs sometimes. But when you rely on a center, that searches for contact on every play this is the price to pay. Cuz ended on the floor a couple of times yesterday. Of course he will be late getting back sometimes.
We could reduce the number of occasions, where this happens, if we could manage to give Cuz more easy looks and quit forcefeeding the ball into him, because we have no backup plan, when he is defended well.
But this will always be our achilles heel, because this is the way Cuz plays.

 

[dude12]

It would be nice if our guys knock down the open looks. The other teams get an open look and they make them.....we just don't have that many shooters on the team right now.

 

[Kingston Jamaica]

I dont't care about our offensive playstyle. Go ahead Karl - push the damn pace, if this is what you think leads to more wins.
All I care about is our defense and the amount of broken plays and miscommunications, that cost us game after game. Wether it's Belli dribbling the ball of his knee, Rondo throwing passes right into the hands of the opposing team, Cuz dribbling into traffic, Rudy being lose with his dribble, Ben stumbling while driving straight, useless switches, that end up with Rondo guarding Pierce or Griffin or Belli and Rudy leaving 3point shooters wide open, because they are not on the same page while switching matchups - this has to stop.

Yesterday I saw a couple of very good plays designed for Belli, that led to wide open looks for our best shooter. And I saw a team, that was over all decent, when defending 5vs5 after made baskets. 3 quarters looked like a step into the right direction.
But in the 4th we played like the 76ers again.
I think the main reason is that we added so many new players. But actually this is not an excuse, when you have a whole training camp and preseason to get on track.
We are a veteran team, but we don't have a strong system to fall back to, when under pressure. Players try to win games going 1vs5, the ball stops moving, we take bad shot after bad shot and turn the ball over. And this happens every time, when the opponents trying to close the quarter strong and lock us down.

We need to fix this fast, or this season will be just another disappointment.

Right, I saw that too. Twice Casspi cut in the middle while Belinelli came out the opposite way, got the ball and shot and scored one 3-pointer and one 2-pointer. Both were uncontested, because the defense went with Casspi.

Concerning the lost games, the one thing that I truly miss is the Kings defense in the beginning of the last season (Malone). It was so good that opponent teams just could not score. Most of those players are still there, but where's the effort? It's a simple fact of life, that defense wins games. Warriors are a good example of it. People pay attention to the hilarious 3-point shooting. They should notice the great defense the Warriors have in place.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

We can talk about lineups and offensive/defensive schemes, but can any one explain why this damn team sucks horribly at the free throw line? It's pathetic.

No matter what we do with "X's and O's",....to really be dangerous, we have to have clutch players. One of the things we've always struggeled with, are players who seemingly always shoot below their "conceived ability" during the most important moments.

Notably, this is where IT (Thomas) excels. I feel like he gets better down the stretch.

To break whatever this "barrier" is, we need guys who actually deliver the goods in 4th quarters. Many times wins and losses, simply come down to the basic free throw.

Having your lead guard be a 50-60% free throw shooter is a massive liability....especially down the stretch in big games

 

[gunks]

My line of argument (and I'm playing devil's advocate here) is more like ... If there are 40 legitimate choices for head coaches in the league, out of whom most of the good ones are taken up and so effectively you only have 4-5 coaches to choose from, and those 4-5 happen to be "idiot" coaches who don't know how to design a system around a dominant big man, then you're better off going with getting players that they do know how to design a system around. Because right now it seems that every single coach we've had (other than Malone), and we've had plenty, either isn't a good coach, or is a good coach who doesn't know how to use Cuz, or is a decent coach who knows how to use Cuz but who Cuz won't get along with (I put Westphal in this category). And that Malone ship has sailed. So are you going to keep bringing in new coach after new coach hoping they stick? Other teams have made much larger strides with far less talent.

Side note on Pop: He's one of the greatest coaches of all time. If we're depending on lucking into a coach like that just to make the frikin playoffs we're going to be waiting for a long time. We arguably have a coach in Karl that's at least somewhat in that realm of elite coaches, but then now people aren't happy that he supposedly doesn't know how to use Cuz. Also, while Pop has changed his system multiple times his players have also adapted and grown to fit whatever new styles.

You lost me at Westphal and decent coach. That guy was horrible.

 

[Bricklayer]

No matter what we do with "X's and O's",....to really be dangerous, we have to have clutch players. One of the things we've always struggeled with, are players who seemingly always shoot below their "conceived ability" during the most important moments.

Notably, this where IT (Thomas) excels. I feel like he gets better down the stretch.

To break whatever this "barrier" is, we need guys who actually deliver the goods in 4th quarters. Many times wins and losses, simply come down to the basic free throw.

Having your lead guard be a 50-60% free throw shooter is a massive liability....especially down the stretch in big games

thing is...some of it is us.

Rudy had a noted rep as a clutch shot maker coming here. So does Bels. But I think we are always so confused, never just focused, settled, in control, running smart controlled plays to focus on our strengths.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The only guy out there I see giving it 100% all game is Belinelli. The guy puts in EFFORT night in and night out.

I see Marco, Casspi, and Collison....giving consistent great effort

 

[Kingster]

The Kings players are to blame. Just a few examples: BMac not getting back on D on two consecutive occasions in the 3rd quarter, with the Spurs converting on fast breaks on both occasions. (Karl yanked him after that; BMac is right up there with Collison in the speed department, but he doesn't get back on D?). Rudy and Belli being confused on a switch (pointing fingers), leaving a wide open shot for Leonard - swish. Middle of the 4th and Rondo gets lost; Spurs find the guy in the corner for the easy swish. These are just a few of brain-dead or lazy plays on defense. It's not the system, for crying out loud. The system is not preventing BMac from getting back on D or leaving easy corner 3s for the opposition.

Eventually the Kings players will probably get it together, but will they get it together to make a run at the playoffs? They better win two out of next three games at home; they have a seven game road trip after that and they aren't going to have any practice during that trip. This team definitely needs the practice.

 

[Livinthedream]

The Kings players are to blame. Just a few examples: BMac not getting back on D on two consecutive occasions in the 3rd quarter, with the Spurs converting on fast breaks on both occasions. (Karl yanked him after that; BMac is right up there with Collison in the speed department, but he doesn't get back on D?). Rudy and Belli being confused on a switch (pointing fingers), leaving a wide open shot for Leonard - swish. Middle of the 4th and Rondo gets lost; Spurs find the guy in the corner for the easy swish. These are just a few of brain-dead or lazy plays on defense. It's not the system, for crying out loud. The system is not preventing BMac from getting back on D or leaving easy corner 3s for the opposition.

Eventually the Kings players will probably get it together, but will they get it together to make a run at the playoffs? They better win two out of next three games at home; they have a seven game road trip after that and they aren't going to have any practice during that trip. This team definitely needs the practice.

If only Karl had pulled BMac in the 4th too, we wouldn't have gotten blown out in that quarter. I mean, the game was close when the quarter started.

 

[pshn80]

We need at least three meetings, players only, coaches only, players and coaches, free doughnuts and coffee, about the good practices, a conditioning program for all, a hew hire PG, and a come to Jesus lecture for everyone from Vlade. I'm sure I'm missing something but its a start. The test is a series of basketball games where we play well and are not charitable. As some others have pointed out, our players are the problem. Coaches are not allowed to enter games. No matter the scheme, the rotations, the injuries, the players are the problem. We can't give player leaders a very high grade either. Come on, play basketball.

 

[VF21]

My only issue is that guys are missing fundamental plays left and right. Why single that moment out? Rudy could have been benched half the season at this point.

My guess? WCS is a rookie, a talented rookie, but still a rookie. You want to make sure they get the fundamentals down pat and not allow them to develop bad habits.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

we could possibly keep our draft pick if we continue the course which might not be a bad thing. they'd for sure can karl & we'd possibly have a top 3 pick.

 

[Bricklayer]

we could possibly keep our draft pick if we continue the course which might not be a bad thing. they'd for sure can karl & we'd possibly have a top 3 pick.

we'd lose everything.

Can't be done. This could be our Waterloo peeps. No more loserball or next season will be a full blown mess.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

we'd lose everything.

Can't be done. This could be our Waterloo peeps. No more loserball or next season will be a full blown mess.

it's not a full blown mess right now? they hired coach b4 gm. vlade can point the finger at V and say hey u brought him in here. i ironed out the wrinkles between star player/coach, gave him the pieces he wanted and he can't make it work. the guys he brought in are all vets. they won big and know how to play the game. they didn't suddenly forget how to play ball. so where does the problem lie? i'd say the coaching. he's pulling some smart rotations jerking players around and can't stick to a game plan to let the guys gel.

 

[Bricklayer]

it's not a full blown mess right now? they hired coach b4 gm. vlade can point the finger at V and say hey u brought him in here. i ironed out the wrinkles between star player/coach, gave him the pieces he wanted and he can't make it work. the guys he brought in are all vets. they won big and know how to play the game. they didn't suddenly forget how to play ball. so where does the problem lie? i'd say the coaching. he's pulling some smart rotations jerking players around and can't stick to a game plan to let the guys gel.

No, right now its a mess with potential.

Next year with no Karl, Cuz, Rondo or Gay is just a mess. Its not feasible. We have the talent and vets to win, so we simply have to win, no more complex than that.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

How difficult is it really to improve from what we have right now? There is too many confusions on both ends. Run simple plays, inside/out, penetrate and dish, some pick and rolls when DC is playing point. Forget the stupid run run run at all cost. All those turnovers and poor shot selections that happen from this "Pace" offense leads to our players scrambling to defend on the other end. That never ends well and this is a recurring cycle.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

James Ham ‏@James_Ham 52m52 minutes ago
"We had a problem in the family. We addressed it, we talked about it." -Vlade Divac