George Karl, Mark Jackson or ??? (merged)
- Thread starter funkykingston
- Start date
Listened to Aaron Bruski's podcast which implied that everyone (press and public) is telling the Kings to hire Karl and that PDA wants Karl, but Vivek is the one holding on to the idea of Mullin coaching. Also, press near the Kings are told that Corbin may just be given the reigns for the whole year. Connecting the dots, that means Corbin coaching is prep for Mullin coaching next year.
It's a little silly to balk at paying Karl 5 million when rookie coaches are making that much.
It's a little silly to balk at paying Karl 5 million when rookie coaches are making that much.
When teams draft poorly or makes a bad signing, fans get upset. Poor basketball decisions are a part of the game though. Disappointment happens.
However, this firing doesn't feel like a basketball decision. We can see reasons, even if we don't like basketball decisions. But I want no part of emotional or personal dealings that affect the basketball team I want to watch.
However, this firing doesn't feel like a basketball decision. We can see reasons, even if we don't like basketball decisions. But I want no part of emotional or personal dealings that affect the basketball team I want to watch.
If this is true and Vivek really is holding onto hope to hire Mullin to coach, we are screwed. It means Vivek really does not have a clue and we will see a series of bad decisions. I mean, in the span of a week, he's gone from franchise savior with a plan, to an owner that has no clue and his sound bites (need a jazz leader, NBA 3.0, positionless basketball, 4x5) are just gibberish and mocked.
If true this means that for an intelligent guy Vivek is doing something very dumb. Not every former player makes a good coach. And unfortunately for us (if this is true) the better the player the worse his odds of succeeding on the sidelines.
Journeyman players HAD to learn systems. Had to find their role. Had to understand the offense. Very good players got to dictate how things were done. The game came easier to them. Great advantages as a player, but weaknesses as a coach.
And if Ranadive is looking at Golden State for validation that this is a great idea, I'm befuddled for two reasons
(1) Steve Kerr was a major target of Phil Jackson and the Knicks who he spurned to go to Golden State. There were several people that thought Kerr was going to be a great coach. Besides Vivek who has been beating down Mully's door?
(2) If the Kings DID want to see a Warriors like build they already screwed the pooch and wrecked the formula. GS let Jackson take the team as far as he could and allowed him to BUILD something before letting him go and giving Kerr the reins to take it to the next level. The Warriors learned to win under Jackson. The Kings were just STARTING to learn how to win under Malone.
I don't have any faith that Mullin will be a good coach. Honestly I think he'll be worse than Reggie Theus who at least paid his dues and had actual coaching experience. And beyond that, the Kings are still a team in disarray who will likely miss the playoffs again and have no stability.
Hiring a new coach to take a playoff team into championship contention is a winner move. Firing a coach midseason, and letting an interim coach limp into the lottery YET AGAIN before bringing in a first time coach to start all over again is a loser move.
Sheesh. I hate typing in caps and yet it's the only way I can convey how frustrated I am as a Kings fan right now.
Journeyman players HAD to learn systems. Had to find their role. Had to understand the offense. Very good players got to dictate how things were done. The game came easier to them. Great advantages as a player, but weaknesses as a coach.
And if Ranadive is looking at Golden State for validation that this is a great idea, I'm befuddled for two reasons
(1) Steve Kerr was a major target of Phil Jackson and the Knicks who he spurned to go to Golden State. There were several people that thought Kerr was going to be a great coach. Besides Vivek who has been beating down Mully's door?
(2) If the Kings DID want to see a Warriors like build they already screwed the pooch and wrecked the formula. GS let Jackson take the team as far as he could and allowed him to BUILD something before letting him go and giving Kerr the reins to take it to the next level. The Warriors learned to win under Jackson. The Kings were just STARTING to learn how to win under Malone.
I don't have any faith that Mullin will be a good coach. Honestly I think he'll be worse than Reggie Theus who at least paid his dues and had actual coaching experience. And beyond that, the Kings are still a team in disarray who will likely miss the playoffs again and have no stability.
Hiring a new coach to take a playoff team into championship contention is a winner move. Firing a coach midseason, and letting an interim coach limp into the lottery YET AGAIN before bringing in a first time coach to start all over again is a loser move.
Sheesh. I hate typing in caps and yet it's the only way I can convey how frustrated I am as a Kings fan right now.
It would explain quite a bit though.
PDA initiates a power play against Malone, but in his scurrying little mind its to remake us in Denver's image, because he's Denver.
Vivek jumps in enthusiastically because in his ignorant little mind he's thinking Mully! Dear Mully! He'll remake us in Golden State's image!
Mullin assists PDA, but is now caught trying not to disappoint his NBA 3.0 meal ticket.
And hence we are paralyzed as all sides are pushing for their own agendas, with Vivek even pondering letting Corbin serve out a lameduck season just to realize his Mully/Golden State wet dream.
The joke is that Vivek screwed this all up. Not just by ignorance of basketball, but by terrible backstabbing technique. All he had to do is wait until the summer, kill Malone then, and he could have been in control as he installed his dear Mully while response/resistance would have been muted. That suggest several things: 1) one possibility is that Mullin actually WANTED the job, that he played his part here thinking he was going to waltz in, but the blowback chased him off. That would explain how/why Vivek would have made such a blunder without making sure he had his man lined up first. Maybe he did, but dear Mully chickened out. 2) another possibility is that the timing of this was PDA all the way, because HIS man was Karl. So he kills his nemesis who won't run n gun like all those championship Denver teams, plans on picking up old boss/mentor/idol Karl before any other team can snag him first...and then suddenly runs into a wall when he discovers that Vivek has his own Mully fantasies.
PDA initiates a power play against Malone, but in his scurrying little mind its to remake us in Denver's image, because he's Denver.
Vivek jumps in enthusiastically because in his ignorant little mind he's thinking Mully! Dear Mully! He'll remake us in Golden State's image!
Mullin assists PDA, but is now caught trying not to disappoint his NBA 3.0 meal ticket.
And hence we are paralyzed as all sides are pushing for their own agendas, with Vivek even pondering letting Corbin serve out a lameduck season just to realize his Mully/Golden State wet dream.
The joke is that Vivek screwed this all up. Not just by ignorance of basketball, but by terrible backstabbing technique. All he had to do is wait until the summer, kill Malone then, and he could have been in control as he installed his dear Mully while response/resistance would have been muted. That suggest several things: 1) one possibility is that Mullin actually WANTED the job, that he played his part here thinking he was going to waltz in, but the blowback chased him off. That would explain how/why Vivek would have made such a blunder without making sure he had his man lined up first. Maybe he did, but dear Mully chickened out. 2) another possibility is that the timing of this was PDA all the way, because HIS man was Karl. So he kills his nemesis who won't run n gun like all those championship Denver teams, plans on picking up old boss/mentor/idol Karl before any other team can snag him first...and then suddenly runs into a wall when he discovers that Vivek has his own Mully fantasies.
i've been saying it since the kings hired chris mullin: you do not want an "adviser" in your rookie owner's ear when said "adviser" doesn't actually have a worthwhile record in a front office capacity, and doesn't actually have to shoulder any legitimate responsibility in his present role with the team; he's not a coach, and bears no burden of criticism on a game-to-game basis. and he's not the gm, and bears no burden of criticism for all personnel-related transactions. he's some half-assed version of a consigliere who is free of any real accountability, yet he gets to be the guy whom the owner appears to trust the most...
that said, mike malone truly had no chance. all d'allesandro had to do was pull mullin into his corner and vivek was sold on the notion of firing the coach he prized so highly that he hired him before hiring anybody else. these were divisive tactics employed by the front office at a time when malone and his team were presenting a unified front. the defense was clicking, the kings were competitive, they clearly had each others' backs, and there was a renewed confidence in the locker room that helped pushed the team to wins they might otherwise have had no business earning. these were, in fact, among the major changes in culture that vivek benchmarked when he bought the team. he preached patience on day one, as did d'allesandro. so much for that...
i can't shake the image in my head of diminutive vivek ranadave, completely out of his depth as a green nba owner, with a miniature chris mullin standing on his right shoulder, and a miniature pete d'allesandro standing on his left. vivek's talked a big game about trusting those who are smarter than himself, but i think he's put his faith in the wrong people...
that said, mike malone truly had no chance. all d'allesandro had to do was pull mullin into his corner and vivek was sold on the notion of firing the coach he prized so highly that he hired him before hiring anybody else. these were divisive tactics employed by the front office at a time when malone and his team were presenting a unified front. the defense was clicking, the kings were competitive, they clearly had each others' backs, and there was a renewed confidence in the locker room that helped pushed the team to wins they might otherwise have had no business earning. these were, in fact, among the major changes in culture that vivek benchmarked when he bought the team. he preached patience on day one, as did d'allesandro. so much for that...
i can't shake the image in my head of diminutive vivek ranadave, completely out of his depth as a green nba owner, with a miniature chris mullin standing on his right shoulder, and a miniature pete d'allesandro standing on his left. vivek's talked a big game about trusting those who are smarter than himself, but i think he's put his faith in the wrong people...
The FO needs to clean up the mess quickly, or else the arena will be 1/2 empty every game.
If the Kings do not put out a watchable product this year, it'll most likely be the last straw for a lot of fans. It doesn't even matter if they'll have a playoff team by the time the new arena comes out, because fans will be gone by then. They need at least 40 wins this year. I think the Kings could've reached 40 with Malone.
The coaching situation is ugly and stupid. They aren't even sure who they want the head coach to be. It seems like they've randomly fired Malone and have literally no real replacement for him right now. If the Mullin coach option is true, it seems like the FO is willing to throw out an entire season just so they can please and set up for Mullin. That is ridiculous. It feels like even with new owners, there isn't stability.
The FO wants this run and gun high tempo type of offense when they don't even have players who can run it. We have no real 3pt shooter on our team aside from Ben. Nik has been beyond terrible thus far, and is not even worthy of seeing any PT unless guarding against Jimmer. This is just sad right now. Day by day, it's starting to look like the FO has 0 clue on wtf they want to do.
I've been very patient and supporting of them, but now it's getting silly. I hope the FO can quickly turn things around. I hope they are somehow in secret negotiations with Karl. I hope they're trying to close out trades for players who do fit their jazz type of offense. I still have faith, but it's slowly fading away. The worst thing they can do right now, is panic because of rapid fan reaction.
If the Kings do not put out a watchable product this year, it'll most likely be the last straw for a lot of fans. It doesn't even matter if they'll have a playoff team by the time the new arena comes out, because fans will be gone by then. They need at least 40 wins this year. I think the Kings could've reached 40 with Malone.
The coaching situation is ugly and stupid. They aren't even sure who they want the head coach to be. It seems like they've randomly fired Malone and have literally no real replacement for him right now. If the Mullin coach option is true, it seems like the FO is willing to throw out an entire season just so they can please and set up for Mullin. That is ridiculous. It feels like even with new owners, there isn't stability.
The FO wants this run and gun high tempo type of offense when they don't even have players who can run it. We have no real 3pt shooter on our team aside from Ben. Nik has been beyond terrible thus far, and is not even worthy of seeing any PT unless guarding against Jimmer. This is just sad right now. Day by day, it's starting to look like the FO has 0 clue on wtf they want to do.
I've been very patient and supporting of them, but now it's getting silly. I hope the FO can quickly turn things around. I hope they are somehow in secret negotiations with Karl. I hope they're trying to close out trades for players who do fit their jazz type of offense. I still have faith, but it's slowly fading away. The worst thing they can do right now, is panic because of rapid fan reaction.
You might be on to something here. Weak GM. Meddlesome owner. Advisor with tons of input, but no accountability. Many of us were pointing out the potential problems with this from the get go.
I'll say this again about Pete and his situation. We have a front office full of analytics gurus and capoligists. We have a basketball insider in Mullin that Vivek trusts more than PDA. PDA is pretty expendable at this point. Good luck Pete.
I'll say this again about Pete and his situation. We have a front office full of analytics gurus and capoligists. We have a basketball insider in Mullin that Vivek trusts more than PDA. PDA is pretty expendable at this point. Good luck Pete.
I don't think the problem is Vivek at all. I don't think he has a lot of say in what goes on. I honestly do believe him when he says he listens to guys smarter than him. He knows that he's an owner, not our GM. He lets his basketball guys decide. If it all fails, then it goes on Pete and his crew.
Vivek is a good owner and great person. Pete is a nice guy, but he's expendable like you've pointed out.
Vivek is a good owner and great person. Pete is a nice guy, but he's expendable like you've pointed out.
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 21h
I asked Steve Kerr pregame if he thought SAC looked like a team that needed a coaching change.. His initial answer, (awkward laugh) "Uhhhh"
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 21h
Funny thing about Kerr's laughing "Uhhhh" response is other than Pete The Puppet, The Consultant & Vivek the whole league is laughing at SAC
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John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 1h
George Karl has twice previously taken over teams mid-season after original HC was fired then interim took over for a short time. (SEA/DEN)
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 59m
In 1991-1992 w/SEA George Karl coached final 42 games after K.C. Jones went 18-18 & Bob Kloppenburg went 2-2. Karl finished 27-15.
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 56m
n 2004-05 George Karl took over DEN after original HC Jeff Bzdelik went 13-15 then interim Michael Cooper was 4-10 & Karl finished 32-8.
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 54m
Starting to think this taking over team midseason after original coach is fired & then an interim acts as a buffer is Karl's modus operandi
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 46m
The nature of George Karl taking over teams twice before after head coach is fired then an interim makes me wonder if he's pulling strings.
I asked Steve Kerr pregame if he thought SAC looked like a team that needed a coaching change.. His initial answer, (awkward laugh) "Uhhhh"
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 21h
Funny thing about Kerr's laughing "Uhhhh" response is other than Pete The Puppet, The Consultant & Vivek the whole league is laughing at SAC
-----------------------------------------------------
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 1h
George Karl has twice previously taken over teams mid-season after original HC was fired then interim took over for a short time. (SEA/DEN)
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 59m
In 1991-1992 w/SEA George Karl coached final 42 games after K.C. Jones went 18-18 & Bob Kloppenburg went 2-2. Karl finished 27-15.
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 56m
n 2004-05 George Karl took over DEN after original HC Jeff Bzdelik went 13-15 then interim Michael Cooper was 4-10 & Karl finished 32-8.
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 54m
Starting to think this taking over team midseason after original coach is fired & then an interim acts as a buffer is Karl's modus operandi
John Dickinson @JDJohnDickinson · 46m
The nature of George Karl taking over teams twice before after head coach is fired then an interim makes me wonder if he's pulling strings.
In this case it feels like maybe that's the best thing they can do.
Fed up fans finally decide just to run their own franchise since they've had to suffer through a decade straight of incompetents. Basketball is not this hard. You have to make it this hard by being affirmatively stupid, shortsighted, with dumb agendas, whatever. Normally its fans with all of the above, but my lord. Shape up already. Geoff Petrie left you a complete gift of a franchise big man. You have to be dumber than slime mold to pee that down the drain.
Fed up fans finally decide just to run their own franchise since they've had to suffer through a decade straight of incompetents. Basketball is not this hard. You have to make it this hard by being affirmatively stupid, shortsighted, with dumb agendas, whatever. Normally its fans with all of the above, but my lord. Shape up already. Geoff Petrie left you a complete gift of a franchise big man. You have to be dumber than slime mold to pee that down the drain.
I'm not so sure Pete is a nice guy.
He may appear outwardly to be friendly and open but he worked as a sports agent for 7 years before starting front office work. Appearing to be a nice guy is probably the most important part of that job. Sounds like he spent the whole summer plotting to remove Coach Malone, going so far as to interview for a lead assistant without Malone's input and potentially promise them the head coaching spot when the time was right. He also negotiated a contract extension for Rudy Gay under the pretense that Coach Malone was going to be here for the duration of the contract even though he clearly knew that wasn't the case. Sounds pretty cold and calculating to me actually. I don't know him personally, but these actions speak pretty loudly as to what he's about.
The thing about Machiavellian strategy is that it doesn't work unless you win, and you can't ever truly win. Treat everyone else as a means to an end and nobody is going to stick their neck out for you when your plans eventually fail. If he just schemed himself right out of a job, I won't feel bad for him.
He may appear outwardly to be friendly and open but he worked as a sports agent for 7 years before starting front office work. Appearing to be a nice guy is probably the most important part of that job. Sounds like he spent the whole summer plotting to remove Coach Malone, going so far as to interview for a lead assistant without Malone's input and potentially promise them the head coaching spot when the time was right. He also negotiated a contract extension for Rudy Gay under the pretense that Coach Malone was going to be here for the duration of the contract even though he clearly knew that wasn't the case. Sounds pretty cold and calculating to me actually. I don't know him personally, but these actions speak pretty loudly as to what he's about.
The thing about Machiavellian strategy is that it doesn't work unless you win, and you can't ever truly win. Treat everyone else as a means to an end and nobody is going to stick their neck out for you when your plans eventually fail. If he just schemed himself right out of a job, I won't feel bad for him.
There's nothing wrong with anything Vivek is saying in theory. And from a business perspective, I'm glad someone is in charge who's thinking globally and trying to bring a new experience to fans. The development downtown that Vivek is spearheading will be great for Sacramento regardless of what happens on the basketball court. It shouldn't be forgotten how much he's gotten right in his tenure so far. I just wonder if he stopped to think about the fact that Goliath, if there is one in the NBA, already plays on our team.
I disagree because a lot of panic moves are bad moves. Not saying they haven't made any bad moves thus far, but it'll make things even worse.
I think it should've been fairly easy to build around Cousins, but we also inherited some crap salaries that made it difficult to do anything.
The FO has also attempted to bring in players to help Cousins. We've gone after Rondo, Ellis, Thompson, Iguadola, and more. The Kings have been in almost every trade rumor possible.. It really does take 2 teams to tango.
Plus, not a lot of players view Sacramento as a cool destination. It would be funny if a Q like this popped up on Family Feud. "For this question, we asked 100 NBA players, what's the the LEAST popular city you'd like to play in?" Contestant: Sacramento! Harvey: Survey says.....#1 answer!!!
I give credit to the FO for trying to surround Cousins with talent, but it's been challenging to get the right type of players they want to surround Cousins with because the team is in Sacramento, and we don't have very good trade assets.
I think it should've been fairly easy to build around Cousins, but we also inherited some crap salaries that made it difficult to do anything.
The FO has also attempted to bring in players to help Cousins. We've gone after Rondo, Ellis, Thompson, Iguadola, and more. The Kings have been in almost every trade rumor possible.. It really does take 2 teams to tango.
Plus, not a lot of players view Sacramento as a cool destination. It would be funny if a Q like this popped up on Family Feud. "For this question, we asked 100 NBA players, what's the the LEAST popular city you'd like to play in?" Contestant: Sacramento! Harvey: Survey says.....#1 answer!!!
I give credit to the FO for trying to surround Cousins with talent, but it's been challenging to get the right type of players they want to surround Cousins with because the team is in Sacramento, and we don't have very good trade assets.
Seems like Mullin doesn't care about it being the best season in almost a decade.
He planted the seed in Vivek's ear, but balked at the public reaction not to take the job right now - and is holding the entire organization hostage by pushing for Corbin to finish the season and kill every hope we've had after our great start - just so he could have optimal conditions as he enters his new gig.
I knew Chris Mullin was bad news the day his name got mentioned with us, and slowly but surely we get to experience it.
I hope I'm wrong.
He planted the seed in Vivek's ear, but balked at the public reaction not to take the job right now - and is holding the entire organization hostage by pushing for Corbin to finish the season and kill every hope we've had after our great start - just so he could have optimal conditions as he enters his new gig.
I knew Chris Mullin was bad news the day his name got mentioned with us, and slowly but surely we get to experience it.
I hope I'm wrong.
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So Karl wants the job and has a history of taking over mid season and we are playing at a 76er level and yet it doesn't look like a deal is iminate. So ****ing stupid this is the perfect time to bring him in to light up the energy and guess what.... This is gonna be the easiest part of the schedule till March. We get Phx, NY, @BRK, @Bos, @MN, @Det. Should have got Karl in here before the LA game get some practice time and get this cake scheduled but no these dumb ****s wants Mullin to coach so Corbin will lead us to 30 wins as DMC watches his close friends wall/Bledsoe battle for the playoffs.
mully is sac's version of gsw's jerry west. so original.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/20/sports/la-sp-nba-report-20110521
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/20/sports/la-sp-nba-report-20110521