Well, see you in a different uniform next season IT

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Here's my issue with that notion. IF the Lakers see Thomas as a band-aid starter and an eventual sixth man, they have to know that if their plan comes to fruition they are paying $7-8 million or more for a backup PG/sixth man. The BEST sixth man in the league this year is making $5.2 million this year and Crawford's deal tops out at $5.6 million. And the guy who has been one of the top sixth men in the league (and the third best player on championship teams) for years is slated to make $7 million the next two years. Is Thomas a better sixth man (not just better but significantly better and deserving of a bigger contract) than Crawford and Ginobili?

No, I have to think that the only way IT gets a contract that earns him $7 million or more per year is if a team looks at him as their long term PG solution and the guy that can be the lead guard on a playoff/contending team.

Personally I don't view him that way. We'll find out in the offseason if other teams do.

Crawford and Ginobili have made in that 7,8,9,10 mil range when they were younger. Back when they were sort of hybrid bench/starter types ... very similar to Thomas' situation now.

Thomas was averaging 20 points a game off the bench before he became the starter, which is insane. To a team not named the Spurs, that might be more valuable them Ginobili who is only playing 22 minutes a game in the regular season. And Crawford hasn't always been this good. He's streaky as hell, and his FG% is consistently just not good enough for me. I think if Thomas was on the Clippers coming in off the bench, he'd be just as good if not better. And Crawford is 34 (Ive never been a fan, so grain of salt yadda yadda yadda). It might come down to how we view each player, but I think Thomas is in the conversation with those 3, if we are calling Thomas a bench player. Of course, I'm talking about those players at the ages they are right now. Ginobili in his prime is clearly the better player. I can see a scenario where Thomas makes what those guys make, if not a tad more because of durability and age.

I think Thomas could be the best bench guard in the league. I mean, that would be the hope, anyway, but I think it is a realistic hope .. not some pipe dream. Especially RIGHT now, in his prime .. if he's ever going to get paid, this will be it.

I think the Lakers could benefit from offering Thomas something front loaded (to the max you can front load these days) which would help them in the future when Thomas is a bench player, and hurt the Kings chances of signing him if Rudy opts in to the 19 mil option.

The more I think about Thomas, and the market .. I just don't think he's going to get overpaid (depending on what you call an over payment) ... I think 8 million is the absolute high mark. 7 is more likely, but I just don't know if the Kings want him back. The number in their head might be 5 or 6, and they've shown us they aren't afraid of letting a player go if it's not the number they want.

 

[funkykingston]

I think $7 million per would be a reasonable number for the Kings to match. It's slightly higher than I think IT is worth, but allows them to retain talent which they couldn't otherwise replace due to the cap situation and other pressing needs.

Yeah, IT was averaging 20 ppg off the bench to start the year. In those 18 games he was also averaging right at 30 mpg and was the ONLY other offensive threat on the team besides Cousins. He actually had his highest usage percentage of the season in November when he was coming off the bench. Which just fuels my view of things. Thomas is a natural scorer. He's not a natural facilitator or playmaker. He's also not a plus defender. He is a guy who should come in, push the pace and put pressure on opposing defenses who have to respect his scoring. And saying he's a better bench player than starter isn't a slight on IT. Bobby Jackson was my favorite King of those wonderful early 2000s teams but I didn't want to see him starting because he also wasn't a guy that you'd want running the offense - he was a guy that you wanted to generate offense himself. Now, BJax was a better rebounder and defender and IT is a better scorer and passer but they are similar in being ideal sixth men players.

One advantage that Crawford and Ginobili have (and it isn't defense) is that they are both SGs who handle the ball very well. This makes them a bit more versatile as they can play with a PG or another SG. Thomas needs to play alongside a SG because playing him with another PG creates a defensive mismatch.

That said, I think IT makes for a very interesting possible compliment to Dante Exum. If the Kings jump up into the top three and Embiid is gone or if they stay at #7 and either Exum slides or they trade up to get him he could be a nice piece to give a three guard rotation of Exum, McLemore and IT. That still doesn't fix the lack of a defensive big, but I'm hoping D'Alessandro pulls off something to acquire one.

 

[Npliam]

Brandon Wright: had a PER of 21.0 in 2012-13, signed as a free agent with the Mavericks that offseason for 3/$15M.
Ian Mahinmi: had a PER of 21.6 in 2009-10, signed as a free agent with the Mavericks that offseason for 6/$21M.
Ike Diogu: had a PER of 20.3 in 2008-09 (with us), signed as a free agent with the Hornets that offseason for 1/$885K.

I'd look to see if there are others, but I'm busy: my turn to make supper tonight.

When it is my turn we go out to eat and leave the kids at home with a pizza.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think $7 million per would be a reasonable number for the Kings to match. It's slightly higher than I think IT is worth, but allows them to retain talent which they couldn't otherwise replace due to the cap situation and other pressing needs.

Yeah, IT was averaging 20 ppg off the bench to start the year. In those 18 games he was also averaging right at 30 mpg and was the ONLY other offensive threat on the team besides Cousins. He actually had his highest usage percentage of the season in November when he was coming off the bench. Which just fuels my view of things. Thomas is a natural scorer. He's not a natural facilitator or playmaker. He's also not a plus defender. He is a guy who should come in, push the pace and put pressure on opposing defenses who have to respect his scoring. And saying he's a better bench player than starter isn't a slight on IT. Bobby Jackson was my favorite King of those wonderful early 2000s teams but I didn't want to see him starting because he also wasn't a guy that you'd want running the offense - he was a guy that you wanted to generate offense himself. Now, BJax was a better rebounder and defender and IT is a better scorer and passer but they are similar in being ideal sixth men players.

One advantage that Crawford and Ginobili have (and it isn't defense) is that they are both SGs who handle the ball very well. This makes them a bit more versatile as they can play with a PG or another SG. Thomas needs to play alongside a SG because playing him with another PG creates a defensive mismatch.

That said, I think IT makes for a very interesting possible compliment to Dante Exum. If the Kings jump up into the top three and Embiid is gone or if they stay at #7 and either Exum slides or they trade up to get him he could be a nice piece to give a three guard rotation of Exum, McLemore and IT. That still doesn't fix the lack of a defensive big, but I'm hoping D'Alessandro pulls off something to acquire one.

Agree on the Exum point as the guy who makes IT viable again. I like what I've seen of him too, but of course all I've seen is vids.

Still so much of this feels like we're wasting time and assets running in circles. Hey, maybe we pick #7 and get Calathes...to do what we used a #7 pick on Ben to do last year...who was replacing a serviceable chucker in Thornton. Or we can use a Top 3 pick to take a guy to play the same role next to IT that Tyreke was already on the team to play. Or maybe we can take one of the SFs and let Rudy Gay go..despite the odds of that making us better in the shortterm not being great. Spinning your wheels is one thing if you are a 50 win team. Quite another when you can't seem to break 30.

 

[KingMilz]

Replace IT with Ramon Sessions and pay Ramon 3-5mil, IT issue solved.

 

[randymoss1881]

No to sessions he is a me first guy we need guys that don't think that way and move the ball. Honestly I wouldn't mind Collison as a starter he plays great defense, knows his role, and has played for Malone before. I'm pretty sure he will opt our he only gets paid 1.5mill next year if he doesn't I would offer him the mid level exception.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Replace IT with Ramon Sessions and pay Ramon 3-5mil, IT issue solved.

Which would make the team worse.

And that is exactly the problem with trying to replace IT in a realistic scenario. Most of the replacements being brought up make the team worse. We are a 28 win team. The owner mandates improvement. We're trying to build a new arena in Sacramento. Time has already begun to tick on Cousins' contract. We have to start winning for a plethora of reasons.

 

[Kingster]

I have speculated on the possible Exum trade up. It's on the wish list, but I doubt the Kings have the ammo to do it if they end up at #7.

I also agree on the spinning the wheels sentiment. The Gay situation underscores the spinning of wheels. The image of Gay holding a $19 million dagger over the head of the Kings organization is hard to jettison. If that dagger falls, it's hard for me to see how this team can even run in place next year, much less get ahead.

 

[pshn80]

Time line between draft/Gay/IT? Draft first? Who's second? Could be either one of the others? How deep into July could the last Gay/IT piece finalize? Also, what is the earliest one or both of those could finalize (or be agreed to by player and FO)? Be interested in what scenarios folks see as possibilities.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Time line between draft/Gay/IT? Draft first? Who's second? Could be either one of the others? How deep into July could the last Gay/IT piece finalize? Also, what is the earliest one or both of those could finalize (or be agreed to by player and FO)? Be interested in what scenarios folks see as possibilities.

Presumably the draft will be first. The draft is on June 26th. Gay can in principle make a decision on his option earlier than the draft, but he can wait until June 30th and there is little reason to believe he won't use all his time. IT's free agency (and Gay's, if he opts out) will then start on July 1st. However, there is a moratorium on actually signing contracts (though often many are agreed to in principle) until July 10th.

So July 10th is the earliest IT can be signed, sealed and delivered, though an agreement could come as early as July 1st. Gay is the same timeframe if he opts out, but if he opts in we will know by June 30th.

I would expect that IT and Gay's free agency could potentially drag out a few weeks - into late July. Gay, because he will presumably be waiting for Carmelo (and maybe Deng) to be signed before knowing what all of his options are. My personal guess is that the Gay market will be headlined by Sacramento, the Lakers, Chicago, and Dallas. IT is a different story because he will be a restricted free agent, which means that if another team tenders IT an offer sheet and he signs it, we have three days to match. IT will probably be the 3/4/5th best PG on the market this offseason, behind Lowry and Bledsoe, and about tied with Stuckey and Stevenson, but as an RFA he may be the fifth option. I don't have a good feel for which teams might go after IT, but I have to figure that on top of Sacramento, Orlando will be on the list. Toronto (if they lose Lowry) and Phoenix (if they lose Bledsoe) would seem to be good candidates, as would Boston (if they trade Rondo). The Lakers could be in on that too, but for some reason I don't think IT is a flashy enough name given the salary he will command for the Lakers to go after him too hard.

 

[Hadlowe]

Which would make the team worse.

And that is exactly the problem with trying to replace IT in a realistic scenario. Most of the replacements being brought up make the team worse. We are a 28 win team. The owner mandates improvement. We're trying to build a new arena in Sacramento. Time has already begun to tick on Cousins' contract. We have to start winning for a plethora of reasons.

I don't know that it makes the team worse. Everything happens in a balancing act. If you compare IT/Sessions talent to talent, then it is a loss in talent to let IT walk. Personally, I think Sessions has a better temperament to set up Cousins and Gay, while not being as effective/efficient on offense. Also, that extra money on the table with Sessions can go toward getting a deeper bench or a better fit at the 4 or 2.

I'm not advocating signing Ramon Sessions as he is at best a stopgap. I just don't agree that you can compare talent 1:1 when you're building a team. San Antonio has built their success by getting hall of fame big men and then building around them with temperament first, fit second, and talent third. That's a pretty good way to go for a small market team, considering that Sacramento currently has the first piece of the puzzle.

 

[pshn80]

Presumably the draft will be first. The draft is on June 26th. Gay can in principle make a decision on his option earlier than the draft, but he can wait until June 30th and there is little reason to believe he won't use all his time. IT's free agency (and Gay's, if he opts out) will then start on July 1st. However, there is a moratorium on actually signing contracts (though often many are agreed to in principle) until July 10th.

So July 10th is the earliest IT can be signed, sealed and delivered, though an agreement could come as early as July 1st. Gay is the same timeframe if he opts out, but if he opts in we will know by June 30th.

I would expect that IT and Gay's free agency could potentially drag out a few weeks - into late July. Gay, because he will presumably be waiting for Carmelo (and maybe Deng) to be signed before knowing what all of his options are. My personal guess is that the Gay market will be headlined by Sacramento, the Lakers, Chicago, and Dallas. IT is a different story because he will be a restricted free agent, which means that if another team tenders IT an offer sheet and he signs it, we have three days to match. IT will probably be the 3/4/5th best PG on the market this offseason, behind Lowry and Bledsoe, and about tied with Stuckey and Stevenson, but as an RFA he may be the fifth option. I don't have a good feel for which teams might go after IT, but I have to figure that on top of Sacramento, Orlando will be on the list. Toronto (if they lose Lowry) and Phoenix (if they lose Bledsoe) would seem to be good candidates, as would Boston (if they trade Rondo). The Lakers could be in on that too, but for some reason I don't think IT is a flashy enough name given the salary he will command for the Lakers to go after him too hard.

Thanks, Capt., I appreciate your take on the matter.

 

[Glenn]

Presumably the draft will be first. The draft is on June 26th. Gay can in principle make a decision on his option earlier than the draft, but he can wait until June 30th and there is little reason to believe he won't use all his time. IT's free agency (and Gay's, if he opts out) will then start on July 1st. However, there is a moratorium on actually signing contracts (though often many are agreed to in principle) until July 10th.

So July 10th is the earliest IT can be signed, sealed and delivered, though an agreement could come as early as July 1st. Gay is the same timeframe if he opts out, but if he opts in we will know by June 30th.

I would expect that IT and Gay's free agency could potentially drag out a few weeks - into late July. Gay, because he will presumably be waiting for Carmelo (and maybe Deng) to be signed before knowing what all of his options are. My personal guess is that the Gay market will be headlined by Sacramento, the Lakers, Chicago, and Dallas. IT is a different story because he will be a restricted free agent, which means that if another team tenders IT an offer sheet and he signs it, we have three days to match. IT will probably be the 3/4/5th best PG on the market this offseason, behind Lowry and Bledsoe, and about tied with Stuckey and Stevenson, but as an RFA he may be the fifth option. I don't have a good feel for which teams might go after IT, but I have to figure that on top of Sacramento, Orlando will be on the list. Toronto (if they lose Lowry) and Phoenix (if they lose Bledsoe) would seem to be good candidates, as would Boston (if they trade Rondo). The Lakers could be in on that too, but for some reason I don't think IT is a flashy enough name given the salary he will command for the Lakers to go after him too hard.

I suspect if we draft Wiggins or Parker, Gay will be on his way out as it will be clear as to what the Kings think about him. I doubt if we will have the option but ......

 

[LPKingsFan]

I suspect if we draft Wiggins or Parker, Gay will be on his way out as it will be clear as to what the Kings think about him. I doubt if we will have the option but ......

I'm pretty sure PDA has already said that he'll draft BPA, and that drafting Wiggins or Parker wouldn't bear on re-signing Gay as he thinks they could play next to each other due to Gay's versatility. Can't seem to track down a link though.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I suspect if we draft Wiggins or Parker, Gay will be on his way out as it will be clear as to what the Kings think about him. I doubt if we will have the option but ......

I don't know that drafting Wiggins or Parker would be any reflection on what the franchise thinks about Gay. Obviously our front office likes Gay, I think that's clear. But you don't pass on a clear-cut best player available (which, if Embiid is off the board, Parker/Wiggins essentially are) because you have either zero or one year left of a player you like at the same position.

Let me put it this way: San Antonio didn't pass on Duncan because they already had David Robinson. And Robinson didn't try to force his way out of San Antonio once the Spurs took Duncan.

There are way for players to coexist. A Gay/Parker combo could spend time at the SF/PF, while Gay/Wiggins could go SF/SG. Anyway, maybe Gay would leave, but I still don't think that taking Parker/Wiggins would reflect on how we feel about Gay.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I don't know that it makes the team worse. Everything happens in a balancing act. If you compare IT/Sessions talent to talent, then it is a loss in talent to let IT walk. Personally, I think Sessions has a better temperament to set up Cousins and Gay, while not being as effective/efficient on offense. Also, that extra money on the table with Sessions can go toward getting a deeper bench or a better fit at the 4 or 2.

I'm not advocating signing Ramon Sessions as he is at best a stopgap. I just don't agree that you can compare talent 1:1 when you're building a team. San Antonio has built their success by getting hall of fame big men and then building around them with temperament first, fit second, and talent third. That's a pretty good way to go for a small market team, considering that Sacramento currently has the first piece of the puzzle.

Its not just talent but fit as well. In the modern NBA you need to have a penetrator who can consistently get into the paint from the perimeter and create for himself or teammates. Without IT, the Kings would lack that element. Rudy's not that guy. He's not good enough of a passer and his handle is too weak. He's more of a beat-down scoring SF in the mid-low block, a modern day James Worthy. Sessions is a significant step below IT as a penetrator with an eye on scoring and passing, and thus the team would be a significant step behind in their ability to challenge defenses.

Gay and Cousins don't need to be set up. This is the biggest myth being perpetuated around. What they need is someone on the perimeter who can put pressure on defenses through penetration. Either find a better penetrator than IT or don't waste your time.

 

[randymoss1881]

Another player I want over IT that would come for the mid level exception is Shaun Livingston. He can play 1-3 position and is a pass first player he is a very good defender and guards Wade really good. He might not be a shooter but when you add in his passing and post game he is a solid starter. right now he is guarding Lebron and Wade while successfully posting up Wade on offense.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Another player I want over IT that would come for the mid level exception is Shaun Livingston.

I would much rather have Livingston than Thomas, and maybe he can be had for the MLE, in general... but, would he come here for the mid-level? To a team that is, at best, a long shot for the eighth seed?

 

[Chubbs]

I would much rather have Livingston than Thomas, and maybe he can be had for the MLE, in general... but, would he come here for the mid-level? To a team that is, at best, a long shot for the eighth seed?

If we tell him he's the starter he might.

 

[peacelate]

If we tell him he's the starter he might.

And why would the Kings do that?

 

[sdballer]

And why would the Kings do that?

Because he'd be a good fit with Cousins/Gay

 

[randymoss1881]

And why would the Kings do that?

Why not? He is a good playmaker and is pg defense would be his problem then we can have Ben guard pgs and he gets SG

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

shaun livingston could be like a poor man's doug christie.

 

[KingMilz]

Which would make the team worse.

And that is exactly the problem with trying to replace IT in a realistic scenario. Most of the replacements being brought up make the team worse. We are a 28 win team. The owner mandates improvement. We're trying to build a new arena in Sacramento. Time has already begun to tick on Cousins' contract. We have to start winning for a plethora of reasons.

How would replacing IT with Sessions make us worse? Sessions other than the 3 ball to me is better at pretty much most other things and does not dominate the ball as much. Are people seriously getting caught up in IT's inflated stats that they can't see there's a lot of better players that don't put up those stats but have a greater impact?

If we can sign Sessions for cheaper than we can sign IT you go with Sessions if it's the other way around you go with IT. Seriously let Sessions jack up 15-16 shots a game (while all the focus is on Cousins) on top of his ability to draw fouls he would easily be putting up IT numbers.

For those saying Livingston I completely agree I have been calling for him since the start of the season dude is a exactly what we need in terms of skills/character and winning intagibles.

Its not just talent but fit as well. In the modern NBA you need to have a penetrator who can consistently get into the paint from the perimeter and create for himself or teammates. Without IT, the Kings would lack that element. Rudy's not that guy. He's not good enough of a passer and his handle is too weak. He's more of a beat-down scoring SF in the mid-low block, a modern day James Worthy. Sessions is a significant step below IT as a penetrator with an eye on scoring and passing, and thus the team would be a significant step behind in their ability to challenge defenses. .

That is complete crap, Sessions (he's a near elite penetration guard) gets into the lane better than IT and he's averaged more assists in numerous seasons while averaging less playing time than IT without hogging as much. In his rookie season he put up 7.5 assists in 26 mins and 6.2 in 3 mins less than IT (IT put up 6.3 this year) did with us on the Lakers. The fact Sessions is 6'2 /6'3 allows him to see the floor better as well and his poise is much better than IT.

 

[jcwkings]

IT is WAY better than Sessions at everything other than defense(and he is an average defender anyways).

 

[Big Cuz 15]

IT may be better individually statistically however fit is key in making a TEAM.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Speaking of new uniforms. If ever Rudy walks, I think there is very high chance the DMC would give Melo a call.
If I remember way back Melo is sort of DMC's role model when he was just entering the NBA.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Speaking of new uniforms. If ever Rudy walks, I think there is very high chance the DMC would give Melo a call.
If I remember way back Melo is sort of DMC's role model when he was just entering the NBA.

Melo's ego doesn't even know Sacramento exists, it's not happening.

 

[Albatros]

What I want is a PG who doesn't feel the need to heat check himself 3/4 times a game with ridiculous transition three's and Steph Curry impressions, someone who can get an entry pass over their defender would also be a bonus.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i hope IT gets a big contract(just not from us). he's had a lot to prove with his height, last pick in the draft and in a contract year. he's proven that he belongs in the league.