2014 Draft Prospects:

[randymoss1881]

I really like Burke so if PDA thinks Ennis is a better prospect than him I'd take him. I true pg would do wonders for Ben and DMC

Chad (Sacramento)
Is Tyler Ennis a better pro prospect than Trey Burke?
Chad Ford
Probably. That's the take I get from most NBA scouts. I think the analytics support that as well. But it's debatable.

Dan (CA)
You think there's a chance Noah Vonleh gets picked before Aaron Gordon?
Chad Ford
Yes. And perhaps ahead of Julius Randle too. Those guys are 5, 6, and 7 on my Big Board and depending on the team, they rank them in different ways. They could end up having some epic head-to-head workouts with possible Montrezl Harrell as the fourth big man or Clint Capela. I like them all. Very different players. Each has unique strengths and weaknesses.
Chris (Raleigh)

 

[Gilles]

Burke was running best college offense against top-10 schedule.
Syracuse's offense was top-40 against very soft opposition.
Ford has a lot of connections, and he hears a lot of stuff form scouts and execs, who usually repeat consensus opinion: no one will share truly insightful view so as to not let everyone on the trail. By this point Damian Lillard was still a late first.

From World Team at Hoops Summit only Capela is of immediate interest
Day One footage:

wears #14: nice finish at 0:11 - can really get up; at 0:13 got 2 jumpers in back-to-back (I'm sure, there were a few he missed, they just didn't make the cut ), release a bit slowish, but for a guy, who started the season, shooting 35% from FT line looks pretty good; awkward post-up on Jokic at 1:20 - clearly has no business playing in the post at the moment; at 2:11 good movement to get in position for alley-oop;
P.S. Towns clearly needs new diet.

Day Two, sorted by prospects, Capela is from 0:10 to 0:24

Really needs bulk: Inglis at 0:30 and Towns at 1:11 don't really feel his presence, although last one may not be fair - Towns will clearly play center.

 

[Kingster]

I really like Burke so if PDA thinks Ennis is a better prospect than him I'd take him. I true pg would do wonders for Ben and DMC
Chad (Sacramento)
Is Tyler Ennis a better pro prospect than Trey Burke?
Chad Ford
Probably. That's the take I get from most NBA scouts. I think the analytics support that as well. But it's debatable.

Dan (CA)
You think there's a chance Noah Vonleh gets picked before Aaron Gordon?
Chad Ford
Yes. And perhaps ahead of Julius Randle too. Those guys are 5, 6, and 7 on my Big Board and depending on the team, they rank them in different ways. They could end up having some epic head-to-head workouts with possible Montrezl Harrell as the fourth big man or Clint Capela. I like them all. Very different players. Each has unique strengths and weaknesses.
Chris (Raleigh)

I'm on the other side of that debate; I don't get the Ennis love. Vonleh before Gordon is a gimmee for me.

 

[Kingster]

From World Team at Hoops Summit only Capela is of immediate interest
Day One footage:

wears #14: nice finish at 0:11 - can really get up; at 0:13 got 2 jumpers in back-to-back (I'm sure, there were a few he missed, they just didn't make the cut ), release a bit slowish, but for a guy, who started the season, shooting 35% from FT line looks pretty good; awkward post-up on Jokic at 1:20 - clearly has no business playing in the post at the moment; at 2:11 good movement to get in position for alley-oop;
P.S. Towns clearly needs new diet.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/clint-capela

Here Capela is viewed as project with a low BBIQ. Unless he's had the light bulb come on over the past year, you might be looking at a very long time for a return on investment.

 

[Gilles]

Offensively he must use his strength to make deep catches in order to finish until he will build a reliable offensive arsenal

After reading this it's possible to give no value to this report altogether. His teammate Jon Brockman has strength, Capela doesn't. He's still a skinny teenager playing against grown man. And as he gets stronger Capela will rebound and keep position better. His 13rpg per 40 minutes is fine. Best NCAA rebounders like Randle or Vonleh averaged 13.5rpg, while playing at a higher pace.
As for "low BBIQ" argument what that guy is describing is actually a lack of fundamentals, which can often be seen in guys, who didn't start playing basketball until mid-teens: no box-outs, fronting stronger guys, high stance defensively.

 

[LPKingsFan]

After reading this it's possible to give no value to this report altogether.

Well, it's from nbadraft.net, so...

 

[Kingster]

After reading this it's possible to give no value to this report altogether. His teammate Jon Brockman has strength, Capela doesn't. He's still a skinny teenager playing against grown man. And as he gets stronger Capela will rebound and keep position better. His 13rpg per 40 minutes is fine. Best NCAA rebounders like Randle or Vonleh averaged 13.5rpg, while playing at a higher pace.
As for "low BBIQ" argument what that guy is describing is actually a lack of fundamentals, which can often be seen in guys, who didn't start playing basketball until mid-teens: no box-outs, fronting stronger guys, high stance defensively.

Actually, what he is describing is the lack of decision making ability and awareness. What to do with the ball when, where and how. Have you seen enough of him to know that he has a feel for the game? How long before he can adapt to the NBA game? Can he start in 1, 2,3, 4 years?

 

[bajaden]

After reading this it's possible to give no value to this report altogether. His teammate Jon Brockman has strength, Capela doesn't. He's still a skinny teenager playing against grown man. And as he gets stronger Capela will rebound and keep position better. His 13rpg per 40 minutes is fine. Best NCAA rebounders like Randle or Vonleh averaged 13.5rpg, while playing at a higher pace.
As for "low BBIQ" argument what that guy is describing is actually a lack of fundamentals, which can often be seen in guys, who didn't start playing basketball until mid-teens: no box-outs, fronting stronger guys, high stance defensively.

Yeah, I agree with you completely. People throw that BBIQ thing around a little too much. I like the way Capela gets up and down the floor. Not doubt he's a project, but depending on where your picking, he could be worth it. People thought that Ibaka was a project too.

 

[bajaden]

I guess we won't know whether Stauskas is declaring or not until next monday. Here's a quote from an nameless NBA scout on Zagblog.

“Stauskas is one of the top five shooters in college basketball,” one veteran NBA scout told SNY.tv. “A player who can score in a variety of ways whether it be catch-and-shoot, coming off a screen, mid-range game as well as a game off of the dribble. He has demonstrated the ability to handle the ball and make plays either for himself or his teammates.

“He can play out of pick-and-roll action as the ball-hanlder. He is a surprising athlete who can finish at the rim. Opponents now game-plan for him and develop schemes in order to take the ball out of his hands and have the other four players on the floor beat them. He is a talented offensive player who can hurt with or without the ball in his hands. He needs to get stronger an develop a more consistent effort at the the defensive end of the floor every night.”

No disagreement from me... One NBA GM said he could go as high as 10th, depending on a teams needs. According to what I've read, teams can't start working out players until May 2nd. The combine runs from May 14th through May 18th. the draft lottery is on May 20th, and the draft is on June 26th. Just a few events to look forward to..

 

[bajaden]

Actually not really. His raw TOV numbers are inflated because he has control of the rock and shoots more than just about anyone in the league. His TOV rate is about average if you factor in how much ball he gets during a game.

Whether he turns the ball over too much is subjective. I don't care about the stats, because what I think is too many turnovers may be different than what you think. But its beside the point. My point, which you seemed to miss, is that Cousins turnovers, or mistakes if you will, have nothing to do with his BBIQ. They're simply mistakes!

 

[The_Jamal]

Whether he turns the ball over too much is subjective. I don't care about the stats, because what I think is too many turnovers may be different than what you think. But its beside the point. My point, which you seemed to miss, is that Cousins turnovers, or mistakes if you will, have nothing to do with his BBIQ. They're simply mistakes!

Oh, I understood your point. I was actually trying to help your point! That Cuz does a pretty good job holding on to the ball, considering how much he has it in his hands. So anyone trying to point out "Well, his high raw TOV numbers mean he is low BBall IQ" is severely wrong.

 

[Gilles]

Actually, what he is describing is the lack of decision making ability and awareness. What to do with the ball when, where and how. Have you seen enough of him to know that he has a feel for the game? How long before he can adapt to the NBA game? Can he start in 1, 2,3, 4 years?

Well, he really improved from last year to this and as this season went along. Looking at his splits in wins/losses you see two massively different statlines: those are amazing when his team wins and look below average, when it loses, and it's not just scoring, where he obvioisly doesn't create anything by himself and depends on his team, that may or may not play well, but rebounding and defense: 8.2rpg+2.1bpg in 22.5mpg vs 5.2rpg+1.4bpg in 19.4mpg. All general public can assess is such markers. As for starting in N years people are quick to forget, that for 3 years Ibaka was considered a spazz running/jumping around, getting blocks without having impact on defense. BTW Drummond is still in the same boat, only he already had 2 seasons behind him, so next one might be when he really starts controlling the game. Every big in this draft will be a project defensively, so the only way to find an impact defender for next season is to trade for one, but I'm not sure teams are getting in line to get rid of those even for #7 pick.

 

[fanop]

PG Elfrid Payton 6'4 180lbs 6'7 wingspan Louisiana Lafayette

36mins 19.2pts 2p% 54.1 3p% 25.9 FT% 60.9 5.9asts 3.6tos 2.3stls 6rebs

Positives-
-Great defender
-Great size
-Good athleticism
-Great ball handler
-Natural PG skills
-Good passer/very unselfish
-Great vision
-Aggressive player
-Penetration to the rim

Negatives-
-Inconsistent and poor jump shot
-Shooting(FT shooter)
-High turnover rate

Here's more information about him on Draft Express's video:

I think he can become a great NBA pg. He's the type of PG the kings really need. He's an unselfish defensive minded pg. He struggles with his jumpshot, but the kings do not need a scorer at PG.

 

[Gilles]

Played against very soft competition, which is understandable given that his team is a mid-major (is it even a mid-major? Can't remember, what conference he plays in off the top of my head), but 9.6FTpg, 2.6 O-Rebpg and 70% at the rim on 7.4 attempt per game (all per 40 minutes stats, all were jumps from previous year) are really good markers. 59% on those FTs and 25% on all jumpers. At just 180 (as I understand, it was USA under 19 camp measurement so from summer 2013; given jumps in O-rebs and FTs, I'd guess he added some bulk) this summer he's still a twig for 6'4" guy and has no hopes of sliding to SG, unless he meets fellow twig there. Still similar to Wilbekin he entered university very young and turned just 20 in February. Freshman Ennis is just 6 months older. Funny line in DX report: "Solid athlete. Very quick." I don't really care about jumping ability of a PG, strength might be a problem against guys like Williams or Westbrook, but it's not a significant concern either. Having elite quicks is by far the most prominent athletic ability for a PG.
To be fair two games, that immediately stand out in terms of quality of opponents, are Baylor and Louisville, and he finished those 8-25 on 2pt shots, though he did get to the line combined 18 times, and I assume there were some non-shooting fouls, so Payton still managed to put pressure on defense, but being the only creator on the team, with him limited those were two easy wins for favorites. His 6.8 apg per 40 minutes is very encouraging, and 4.1 TOpg per 40 is understandable with the amount of offense he had to create all by himself.
He does have very strong preference for finishing with the right hand, and that's definitely a limiting factor, plus his shot mechanics will need to be scratched, but looking at his interview Payton know, what he needs to do, not just generic "must work hard on improving my game", and so far improved every year. Well, let's get this kid, I'm sold.
P.S. and in the first play of the clip we see defensive playmaking of Doug McD. Then throughout the entire "Defense" section Payton is denying him the ball as well, though that's not part of McDermott's game, that he will rely on in the pros, but it feels like DX is picking on Doug.

 

[Hallama]

Love Payton's defense, reminds me of another retired NBA players defense...can't quite remember his name, on the tip of my tongue...

 

[bajaden]

Oh, I understood your point. I was actually trying to help your point! That Cuz does a pretty good job holding on to the ball, considering how much he has it in his hands. So anyone trying to point out "Well, his high raw TOV numbers mean he is low BBall IQ" is severely wrong.

I misunderstood! My bad....

 

[Kingster]

Well, he really improved from last year to this and as this season went along. Looking at his splits in wins/losses you see two massively different statlines: those are amazing when his team wins and look below average, when it loses, and it's not just scoring, where he obvioisly doesn't create anything by himself and depends on his team, that may or may not play well, but rebounding and defense: 8.2rpg+2.1bpg in 22.5mpg vs 5.2rpg+1.4bpg in 19.4mpg. All general public can assess is such markers. As for starting in N years people are quick to forget, that for 3 years Ibaka was considered a spazz running/jumping around, getting blocks without having impact on defense. BTW Drummond is still in the same boat, only he already had 2 seasons behind him, so next one might be when he really starts controlling the game. Every big in this draft will be a project defensively, so the only way to find an impact defender for next season is to trade for one, but I'm not sure teams are getting in line to get rid of those even for #7 pick.

How many TOs per game?

 

[Kingster]

I'm keeping my mind open on Capela. Hard to grade a guy without seeing him in games.

If we get #7 or lower, I can see Stauskas in the picture. He can be a playmaker and a shooter, something the Kings need. The only guy we currently have on the team who can do both is Isaiah. (McCallum is still a ? in my book). I'd like to see an offense where you have a guy on one side of the floor who can make plays, and a guy on the opposite side, who can make plays. Both Gay and McLemore can't make plays. You need somebody who can. A defense can always take away one playmaker if it chooses; we saw some of that with Isaiah this year. But if you have two, it's incredibly difficult for the opposing team to guard.

 

[Dime Dropper]

If you take Stauskas what do you do with Ben? Stauskas isn't a PG and it seems the FO is high on Ben. They're not going to relegate him to the bench or use a lottery pick on a bench player. I just don't think Stauskas is a realistic option unless Ben is traded, which I think is unlikely.

 

[Kingster]

Oh, I understood your point. I was actually trying to help your point! That Cuz does a pretty good job holding on to the ball, considering how much he has it in his hands. So anyone trying to point out "Well, his high raw TOV numbers mean he is low BBall IQ" is severely wrong.

It's just one indicator. If you can't see a guy play a game, then it's about all you have.

 

[Kingster]

If you take Stauskas what do you do with Ben? Stauskas isn't a PG and it seems the FO is high on Ben. They're not going to relegate him to the bench or use a lottery pick on a bench player. I just don't think Stauskas is a realistic option unless Ben is traded, which I think is unlikely.

When it comes to the draft, Ben doesn't even exist. He's done nothing to prove one way or another that he exists as an NBA player. If you draft Stauskas, and Ben then proves his existence, all the better. If Stauskas proves he can play you could easily put Stauskas at the 3, then you could have IT/MCallum at the 1, Ben at the 2, Stauskas at the 3. Then you could have two playmakers on the floor, and all three can shoot the rock (assuming Stauskas and Ben prove their existence). That's major firepower. If you're wondering what happened to Gay, he's long gone; he's decided he doesn't want to be here anymore. We're going to use his $ for a 4 who can block some shots.

 

[bajaden]

How many TOs per game?

Payton averaged 3.6 turnovers a game against 5.9 assists a game. So he's not quite at that desired minimum of two to one. He played in the Sun Belt conference, which is about as well known as he is. Point is, his competition is no where near as tough as the competition faced by PG's in the Big Ten or the ACC etc. However he was on the USA U-17 team and held his own very well. I think that if he gets drafted in the first round, and I believe him to be on the bubble at the moment, it will be for his defensive abilities. His biggest weakness, and I'm sure everyone knows by now, is his jumpshot. Although he shot just over 50% overall, he only shot 26% from the three. His freethrow shooting while not terrible, isn't anything to write home about either at 60.9%.

I have a personal bias against players that can't shoot. I've been burned too many times with the idea that they'll learn how to shoot once in the pro's. While many do, many don't as well, and trying to figure out which is which is an exercise I don't care to go through anymore. People tend to confuse a players ability to score, with his ability to be unselfish. If a player can't shoot, and he appears to be an unselfish player as well, maybe the reason he's unselfish, is that he can't shoot. Of course that scenario doesn't work with Smart. If you have a player playing a position and he can't shoot, then other teams don't guard him. For that reason, I'm not fond of players that can't shoot, as well as not being fond of players that you hope will learn how to shoot.

If you can't shoot the rock, then you better have some incredible abilities in other areas that compensate. Like Tyreke with his ability to get to the basket better than 90% or greater than the rest of the players in the league. To be honest, I'm not sure why were have this conversation about Payton. We don't have a low first round pick, nor do we have a 2nd round pick, and there is no way in hell we'd take him with the 7th pick in the draft, if that's where we end up. Now if we acquire another pick, then he might enter the conversation. Were's already nurturing one mid level conference PG. I doubt we'll take on another.

 

[Gilles]

How many TOs per game?

They were down: 20 (26 assists) in 338 minutes in wins, and 16 (6 assists) in 213 minutes in losses.
Overall his 2.6 TOpg per 40 minutes is not that good for a limited finisher, though Ibaka averaged 2.3TOpg per 40 in Spain, Mozgov - over 4.2 in Russia, Biyombo - 4.0 in Spain. Capela doesn't fumble the ball, but he tries to go outside of his comfort zone from time to time, despite the fact that he isn't skilled enough to create his own offense.
here are his splits this season: http://www.lnb.fr/fr/Pro-A/200010/Stats-Joueurs/A47354/fiche?type=1&from=2013&stat=d

 

[Dime Dropper]

When it comes to the draft, Ben doesn't even exist. He's done nothing to prove one way or another that he exists as an NBA player. If you draft Stauskas, and Ben then proves his existence, all the better. If Stauskas proves he can play you could easily put Stauskas at the 3, then you could have IT/MCallum at the 1, Ben at the 2, Stauskas at the 3. Then you could have two playmakers on the floor, and all three can shoot the rock (assuming Stauskas and Ben prove their existence). That's major firepower. If you're wondering what happened to Gay, he's long gone; he's decided he doesn't want to be here anymore. We're going to use his $ for a 4 who can block some shots.

But it doesn't matter how we view Ben - everything points towards the FO valuing him highly. I highly doubt they'll take another SG, with the possible exception being Exum (who may transition to PG). And no thanks on putting Stauskas at SF. He's far too small, that's a disaster waiting to happen. He's going to have enough trouble proving he can defend SGs, let alone giving up even more size and strenth.

I'd be OK with looking at Stauskas if we didn't have Ben and were picking a little lower. But there's too many better and more suitable options for us than to go with him.

 

[Kingster]

I have a personal bias against players that can't shoot. I've been burned too many times with the idea that they'll learn how to shoot once in the pro's. While many do, many don't as well, and trying to figure out which is which is an exercise I don't care to go through anymore. People tend to confuse a players ability to score, with his ability to be unselfish. If a player can't shoot, and he appears to be an unselfish player as well, maybe the reason he's unselfish, is that he can't shoot. Of course that scenario doesn't work with Smart. If you have a player playing a position and he can't shoot, then other teams don't guard him. For that reason, I'm not fond of players that can't shoot, as well as not being fond of players that you hope will learn how to shoot.

If you can't shoot the rock, then you better have some incredible abilities in other areas that compensate. Like Tyreke with his ability to get to the basket better than 90% or greater than the rest of the players in the league. To be honest, I'm not sure why were have this conversation about Payton. We don't have a low first round pick, nor do we have a 2nd round pick, and there is no way in hell we'd take him with the 7th pick in the draft, if that's where we end up. Now if we acquire another pick, then he might enter the conversation. Were's already nurturing one mid level conference PG. I doubt we'll take on another.

Actually, I was referring to Capela when it came to TOs. I should have been more specific.

I'll second the non-shooting bias. I'm not enamored with Smart or Gordon for that reason. If they want to draft a 2nd rounder who can't shoot and stick him in the D League with a shooting coach, fine. But not a high first rounder.

 

[Gilles]

When it comes to the draft, Ben doesn't even exist. He's done nothing to prove one way or another that he exists as an NBA player. If you draft Stauskas, and Ben then proves his existence, all the better. If Stauskas proves he can play you could easily put Stauskas at the 3, then you could have IT/MCallum at the 1, Ben at the 2, Stauskas at the 3. Then you could have two playmakers on the floor, and all three can shoot the rock (assuming Stauskas and Ben prove their existence). That's major firepower. If you're wondering what happened to Gay, he's long gone; he's decided he doesn't want to be here anymore. We're going to use his $ for a 4 who can block some shots.

Stauskas might be an adequate defender at SG, but at SF he will be slaughtered, just massively overpowered and out-reached.

 

[Kingster]

But it doesn't matter how we view Ben - everything points towards the FO valuing him highly. I highly doubt they'll take another SG, with the possible exception being Exum (who may transition to PG). And no thanks on putting Stauskas at SF. He's far too small, that's a disaster waiting to happen. He's going to have enough trouble proving he can defend SGs, let alone giving up even more size and strenth.

I'd be OK with looking at Stauskas if we didn't have Ben and were picking a little lower. But there's too many better and more suitable options for us than to go with him.

I think the FO is thinking on multiple levels. On one level, they are going to do everything in their power to grow Ben's game, such as the personal coaching, filmwork, etc. Along those lines, they will be speaking very positively about Ben, his development, his work ethic, etc. On the other level, they have to step back objectively and say to themselves that at this moment in time he doesn't exist as an NBA player. They can't strategize the construction of their team on hope. They have to build it on what is clearly evident. If the hope does in fact become reality it's a bonus to their strategy, not an essesential premise of their strategy. Thank God. If Ben was a cornerstone to their strategy, and Ben didn't work out, then the house would crumble.

 

[funkykingston]

When it comes to the draft, Ben doesn't even exist. He's done nothing to prove one way or another that he exists as an NBA player. If you draft Stauskas, and Ben then proves his existence, all the better. If Stauskas proves he can play you could easily put Stauskas at the 3, then you could have IT/MCallum at the 1, Ben at the 2, Stauskas at the 3. Then you could have two playmakers on the floor, and all three can shoot the rock (assuming Stauskas and Ben prove their existence). That's major firepower. If you're wondering what happened to Gay, he's long gone; he's decided he doesn't want to be here anymore. We're going to use his $ for a 4 who can block some shots.

I think the best case scenario in drafting Stauskas is that that Ben makes a big leap this offseason and Stauskas proves to be a poor man's Ginobili off the bench.

 

[Kingster]

Stauskas might be an adequate defender at SG, but at SF he will be slaughtered, just massively overpowered and out-reached.

It depends on the matchup.

 

[Kingster]

They were down: 20 (26 assists) in 338 minutes in wins, and 16 (6 assists) in 213 minutes in losses.
Overall his 2.6 TOpg per 40 minutes is not that good for a limited finisher, though Ibaka averaged 2.3TOpg per 40 in Spain, Mozgov - over 4.2 in Russia, Biyombo - 4.0 in Spain. Capela doesn't fumble the ball, but he tries to go outside of his comfort zone from time to time, despite the fact that he isn't skilled enough to create his own offense.
here are his splits this season: http://www.lnb.fr/fr/Pro-A/200010/Stats-Joueurs/A47354/fiche?type=1&from=2013&stat=d

That sounds positive to me.