Kings active in trade talks?

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I also think the trade deadline in an opportunity to make deals that will not be there in the offseason. It's very unique, and for a 'progressive' team like the Kings, it's important to take advantage of those opportunities.

Who would ever target Carl Landry (with his contract and how he's been playing) or Marcus Thornton? or even Jason Thompson? in the offseason when there are plenty of options, those guys are nearly impossible to trade. But at the deadline? Teams panic. Happens every year.

And I'm not saying it will be easy to move any of these players, but it should be looked at. It should be sought out.

Quick note on JT, I like him a lot, but he's probably the most moveable piece the Kings have that I do not want here long term. And It's not that I don't want JT, really. I'd prefer him over Landry, but they are both ideally 3rd bigs, and you can't pay two 3rd bigs the kind of money those guys are making together.

I'd be pretty shocked if we don't do anything. In order of players I think are most likely to be moved, I'd put Jimmer first, then JT, then Thomas, then Williams, then Outlaw, then Landry, then Thornton, then McLemore ... I think it's pretty safe to suggest Cousins, McCallum, Gay, Acy, and Gray will be here after the deadline, but I suppose it's possible some of those guys could be throw ins to make a bigger deal work, but none of them would be the centerpiece. I could see all those guys in that first list being a centerpiece for something, even if it's as small as Jimmer for Andre Miller or Luke Ridnour.

I think Thomas might be on the way out. He's not Malone or PDA's guy. This has been clear from day 1. He was flat out better than GV, which is why he took his spot, but that isn't the guy the Kings are looking for at PG. Even as a Thomas defender I can see that. And I'm not trying to pay him 8-10 million in the offseason, either.

Thomas is a guy I could see the Kings trading a later first rounder + something to a contender for (to free up their first in a Rondo deal). Something like Perry Jones + a first rounder for IT, or IT to the Suns for their Pacers pick + filler. With his tiny contract he can really help a playoff team off the bench.

 

[Padrino]

There is a danger in not continuing to move forward. The fanbase is certainly leaking back away as we speak. But more importantly is this: it puts colossal pressure on the team this summer. Here's disaster: this time next year Cuz has just missed the All Star game again because we struck out in free agency (who wants to play for a basement team?) and missed on another draft pick, and hence are lottery bound again. How long do you think Cuz and his agent tolerates us ****ing up his legacy? How do you keep the fans coming with the saved the team glow fading and your own incompetence becoming evident?

Gotta keep moving forward if you can. There is a timer on this project.

indeed, and i would also add that you've gotta have some forward momentum by the time you move into a new arena. these plans need to coalesce along a rather neat, fairly compressed timeline in order for this umpteenth iteration of the "rebuild" to have any chance at success. cousins won't wait around forever. rudy gay might not wait around at all. the kings have a couple of years to try and shove their way into the playoff conversation, and every single offseason and trade deadline is of the utmost importance in the meantime. it cannot be wasted sitting idly by, not until the roster is considerably more balanced, at least...

if the kings' front office is willing to sacrifice offensive talent for gains on the defensive side of the ball, if they draft smarter in 2014 than they did in 2013, and if they sign free agents of greater long term value than carl landry, then they've got a shot at making this rebuild work. on the less rosey side of things, the kings could remain basement dwellars, could watch rudy gay revitalize his career elsewhere, could bear witness to demarcus cousins' wrath via trade demand, and could continue looking to the draft for yet another savior year in and year out, while the fanbase dwindles and forgets about how much they cared about keeping this team in sacramento in the first place...

nobody wants to hear crickets once the novelty of a new arena has worn off. this team needs to be on a sustainable path to winning when doors open. once again, every opportunity to improve the roster is an important opportunity, and must be approached with urgency. the 2013 offseason was the first mile marker, and it was largely a whiff. the new regime rebounded well in acquiring derrick williams and rudy gay during the season, who represent undeniable talent upgrades for a team that was sorely lacking in talent. the upcoming trade deadline is another mile marker, and i hope the kings' front office doesn't waste it. perhaps they are unable to make a move, but they had better be married to their phones non-stop across the next few days...

 

[enigma99a]

I was just wondering. What if the Kings DID NOT make any significant trades this week? Looks like the asking prices are too high in most cases. The Kings say they want to build for the future so drafting a lottery pick is one way to start. This is the quietest time I ever remember 3 days before the draft and a really good draft at that. Pass first PG for future who can defend? Jimmer and McCallum? hard to say. Outside shooters in 45% range. A backup big for sure. A scoring PF who can defend. And the SG's. MT I think can be quite good if he knows he will get his 30 min/gm. McLemore will begin to emerge for more minutes next year. And Coach and owner have said multiple time that the rebuild will take a year or two.

I'm tired of the drafts. The players are just prospects, that's it. Unproven. Unless we have a chance at a Kobe Bryant or Lebron James, I say move forward NOW

 

[VF21]

I will not be at all surprised if PDA makes no further trades in the next three days. He"s already done a lot, especially when you compare last year's roster to this year's. There's just no way to know for sure that there will be anyone willing to buy what we're willing to sell at this point. It's not like we've got valuable assets available at bargain prices.

I don't think the fan base is leaking back away as we speak. I think we here tend to be a bit snobbish at times and act as though we and we alone know what's best for the Kings. Most fans aren't looking for anywhere near as much as most of us. They're just happy to have a team and most of them actually like the Cousins-Gay-IT dynamic. You see it at the games.

Bottom line, if we all want to be truthful, it's the folks who are paying to put their butts in the seats that have the loudest voice with the ownership. PDA and Vivek and the rest have a vision. They're going to do things their way. I personally don't think they're dragging their heels or avoiding change or anything else. They're just doing things on a different timetable than what some of us would like. I'm willing to wait and see what happens.

 

[MizzouKing]

I predict we'll end up with Andre Miller, for many of the reasons described here: http://www.chatsports.com/sacrament...pproach-the-upcoming-trade-deadline-2-9335827. Unless Denver gets a better offer for him, I think the last chance to "make a change while they can" will be more attractive than retaining a headache. I'm not a big fan of this move from the Kings perspective, but I do have faith in our FO.

 

[ParniValjak]

My biggest concern approaching the trade deadline and beyond that is that the front office and our coach are not on the same page in terms of their basketball philosophy. One one hand, you have a coach who is all about defense and craves defensive players on this roster. On the other, you have a front office (Mullin and PDA) who are all about the offense and having a high octane offensive team. You only need to look at the teams they were involved with, the moves that those teams made while they were there to see what I am referring to.

Even here, we have seen signs on that. Malone came to the team excited to work with Tyreke and his defensive potential. The front office does not match the offer and trade him for an offensive minded player who does not play defense. We trade for Mbah a Moute who Malone praises for his defense and ability to guard multiple positions. He plays him on CP3 against the Clippers and he takes him right out of the game only to be traded for D-Will.

Now some of those deals you can say you really can't argue with but even the names that we have been linked to are all offensively minded players. Rondo is the exception but he also is a damn fine pass first PG that makes your team's offense better. Its a bit like the Doug Christie argument with Geoff Petrie. Would he have traded for Christie if he was not a nice offensive players as well?

The problem with that approach is that it is really difficult to get good two way players in this league and when you do, they tend to be pretty pricey commodities. I fear that even if we had a chance to draft Joel Embiid, the front office would go with an offensive minded player. Someone like Parker or similar.

Its just frustrating because the successful teams always have the front office and their coach on the same page.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I predict we'll end up with Andre Miller, for many of the reasons described here: http://www.chatsports.com/sacrament...pproach-the-upcoming-trade-deadline-2-9335827. Unless Denver gets a better offer for him, I think the last chance to "make a change while they can" will be more attractive than retaining a headache. I'm not a big fan of this move from the Kings perspective, but I do have faith in our FO.

I thought that article advocated against get better now moves if it doesn't improve long term

 

[LPKingsFan]

My biggest concern approaching the trade deadline and beyond that is that the front office and our coach are not on the same page in terms of their basketball philosophy. One one hand, you have a coach who is all about defense and craves defensive players on this roster. On the other, you have a front office (Mullin and PDA) who are all about the offense and having a high octane offensive team. You only need to look at the teams they were involved with, the moves that those teams made while they were there to see what I am referring to.

Even here, we have seen signs on that. Malone came to the team excited to work with Tyreke and his defensive potential. The front office does not match the offer and trade him for an offensive minded player who does not play defense. We trade for Mbah a Moute who Malone praises for his defense and ability to guard multiple positions. He plays him on CP3 against the Clippers and he takes him right out of the game only to be traded for D-Will.

Now some of those deals you can say you really can't argue with but even the names that we have been linked to are all offensively minded players. Rondo is the exception but he also is a damn fine pass first PG that makes your team's offense better. Its a bit like the Doug Christie argument with Geoff Petrie. Would he have traded for Christie if he was not a nice offensive players as well?

The problem with that approach is that it is really difficult to get good two way players in this league and when you do, they tend to be pretty pricey commodities. I fear that even if we had a chance to draft Joel Embiid, the front office would go with an offensive minded player. Someone like Parker or similar.

Its just frustrating because the successful teams always have the front office and their coach on the same page.

Voisin asked Vivek about this in her interview. Not much of an answer, but I thought I'd post it here:

What about the philosophical differences between your coach and your front office?

Look, I know people talk about that my coach is always focusing on defense, while guys like Mullie (Chris Mullin, adviser) and Petey (D’Alessandro, general manager) are offense-oriented. And that we have offensive players. It’s no secret the game has become an offensive game, with three-point shots, layups, the rule changes. We all see it. So we have to reconcile that. And I think it’s good. If I had everyone who agreed, why would I want them?

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/02/16/61...principal.html#mi_rss=Kings/NBA#storylink=cpy

My take has been pretty consistent on this: each of the moves may make sense in a vacuum, but on the whole they've resulted in a loss of defensive-oriented players while still upgrading the overall talent base of the team. Given the low talent base the management had to start with, I think that philosophy makes sense, but at some point they're going to need to address fit if the team is to continue progressing forward.

 

[Bricklayer]

Voisin asked Vivek about this in her interview. Not much of an answer, but I thought I'd post it here:




Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/02/16/61...principal.html#mi_rss=Kings/NBA#storylink=cpy

My take has been pretty consistent on this: each of the moves may make sense in a vacuum, but on the whole they've resulted in a loss of defensive-oriented players while still upgrading the overall talent base of the team. Given the low talent base the management had to start with, I think that philosophy makes sense, but at some point they're going to need to address fit if the team is to continue progressing forward.

Not an encouraging answer at all, given that the "offensive game" today is still annually dominated by the best defensive teams when it comes time to decide a title winner. But at least he recognizes the divide.

 

[KingMilz]

Memphis could be looking to move Tony Allen if a team is willing to take Prince. Maybe Thornton + something else

 

[Bricklayer]

Memphis could be looking to move Tony Allen if a team is willing to take Prince. Maybe Thornton + something else

Thornton would have made a lot more sense to them before they got Lee. Was annoyed to see the Lee thing happen as I considered them a possible Thornton dump off spot, and Lee was a directly comparable sort of addition.

 

[ParniValjak]

Memphis could be looking to move Tony Allen if a team is willing to take Prince. Maybe Thornton + something else

Thornton and Landry for Allen and Prince?!

Why we do it? Get a SG stud defender if IT is our PG going forward. He can guard 3 positions on the perimeter for us and give us some much needed defensive intensity. Prince is a a burden for one more season after this. We don't take any more salary, if anything we take less than we had. We get rid off Landry's $6.5 million per season and replace it with Allen's $5 million per season. The length of the deals is the same. Thornton and Prince end in the same year.

Why they do it? They probably don't

 

[Bricklayer]

The Sacramento Kings offered the Boston Celtics Isaiah Thomas, Ben McLemore and draft picks for Rajon Rondo, according to a source. The deal did not go through due to Rondo's disinterest in signing a long-term contract with the Kings. The Celtics reportedly want multiple first round picks in a deal for Rondo. -- Via Marc J. Spears/Yahoo! Sports

ahem

 

[Hoovtrain]

Word is that Teague is on the block. Not sure if its a straight salary dump or not. A buddy mentioned a possible IT/JT for Teague swap (I think salaries match) . I'd be all for that, I'm a big Teague fan.

 

[Sluggah]

ahem

That's the offer that makes sense for everyone, but the note about Rondo's personal feelings on the matter is a bit of a bummer. No sense in following through now.

Disappointing and discouraging for sure, but not entirely surprising. Oh well.

 

[cuad]

This is the source apparently...

26. Boston Celtics (19-35; last week's ranking: 26): Source said Sacramento offered Isaiah Thomas, Ben McLemore and two picks for Rajon Rondo. Rondo wasn’t interested in re-signing with Sacramento.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-po...-going-post-all-star-break-010802982-nba.html
​

 

[KingMilz]

Word is that Teague is on the block. Not sure if its a straight salary dump or not. A buddy mentioned a possible IT/JT for Teague swap (I think salaries match) . I'd be all for that, I'm a big Teague fan.

Would do it easily, Jeff Teague is a great fit with Cousins

 

[rainmaker]

I'd still do it, whether or not Rondo says at this time he'd stay long term or not. If someone asked Webber before being dealt here if he'd stay long term, you'd have heard a resounding "hell no" in response.

If we had a full training camp and season with Boogie/Rudy/Rondo, and I'd fully assume Rudy would opt-in if we made this move, Rondo's opinion could definitely change. As a small market we've got to take risks. We'd rarely hear a player saying he'll stay here long term beforehand. Rudy never said he'd stay either. Actually, it came out he was never even asked about opting in.

If the gamble is a full year of Boogie/Rudy/Rondo and hopefully them liking what they see and signing extensions vs losing Rudy/Rondo to free agency the following year if it doesn't go well, I'm taking that gamble. I'm sure Boogie would appreciate it as well. If we're looking for long term commitments before pulling off deals, we won't see many deals bringing back decent talent.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I wonder if Spears is just rehashing the rumor that went around over a month ago which coincidentally involved IT/Ben/2 picks

 

[Bricklayer]

I wonder if Spears is just rehashing the rumor that went around over a month ago which coincidentally involved IT/Ben/2 picks

Spears doesn't do much of that -- he and Woj work together a lot, and are kind of the last line of credibility in the biz.

Although in an absolutely perfect world you would tell me this happened in November, before we got Gay, and then we got Gay to try to help convince him. Seems unlikely for a number of reasons though.

 

[ParniValjak]

I'd still do it, whether or not Rondo says at this time he'd stay long term or not. If someone asked Webber before being dealt here if he'd stay long term, you'd have heard a resounding "hell no" in response.

If we had a full training camp and season with Boogie/Rudy/Rondo, and I'd fully assume Rudy would opt-in if we made this move, Rondo's opinion could definitely change. As a small market we've got to take risks. We'd rarely hear a player saying he'll stay here long term beforehand. Rudy never said he'd stay either. Actually, it came out he was never even asked about opting in.

If the gamble is a full year of Boogie/Rudy/Rondo and hopefully them liking what they see and signing extensions vs losing Rudy/Rondo to free agency the following year if it doesn't go well, I'm taking that gamble. I'm sure Boogie would appreciate it as well. If we're looking for long term commitments before pulling off deals, we won't see many deals bringing back decent talent.

The problem is that its a massive risk to take which could take you years to recover from if it does not work out and in the process it could cost us Cousins because we could not build a team around him.

Taking on all 3 and trading all the assets in the process limits us what we can do in the off-season to address other areas. I would still be tempted but it would be a HUGE gamble. If it pays off then great but if it fails, it would take years to recover. If Rondo has another 2 years remaining after this season I would do it in a second. But 1 year really puts us on clock to literally pull off some miracles.

It could work, but it could fail spectacularly.

With Rondo in town, all of a sudden, all of a sudden Thornton has a role to play for us as a scorer.

 

[cuad]

Dear Pete & Vivek,

Ignore Rondo's feelings. Make the trade.

 

[rainmaker]

The problem is that its a massive risk to take which could take you years to recover from if it does not work out and in the process it could cost us Cousins because we could not build a team around him.

Taking on all 3 and trading all the assets in the process limits us what we can do in the off-season to address other areas. I would still be tempted but it would be a HUGE gamble. If it pays off then great but if it fails, it would take years to recover. If Rondo has another 2 years remaining after this season I would do it in a second. But 1 year really puts us on clock to literally pull off some miracles.

It could work, but it could fail spectacularly.

With Rondo in town, all of a sudden, all of a sudden Thornton has a role to play for us as a scorer.

I agree and yes, it is a huge gamble.

You bring up losing Boogie, potentially, if it were to blow up in our face. That's a legit worry. What also is a legit worry in my eyes is if we don't pull off something which changes our roster structure in the next few days, the chances Rudy opts-out sky rocket. We lose Rudy and this becomes a less attractive place for FA's and I don't think Boogie is going to be all that pleased.

I think there's arguably a great deal of risk in not doing a deal like this as it pertains to Rudy in the near future and Boogie down the road.

 

[Sam0ah]

If this rumor is legit. It shows the Kings aren't very high on IT and Ben. Which would make sense on how much playing time IT gets over Jimmer to pump up his value.

 

[rainmaker]

BTW:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/1/10/3863874/rajon-rondo-would-love-to-play-with-friend-rudy-gay


Rondo reportedly refusing to sign long term might be misdirection from someone within Boston's FO. At least one can hope it is.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Get Rondo and shower him with love from the fans and admiration and then we will see what tune he sings. Better yet remind him what it feels like to play next to two legitimate stars. With Rondo we suddenly become a very different team. It would be a dream come true.

 

[Bricklayer]

There would be another way to pay things there. The problem is that Rondo is exactly what we want/need at the spot, but if that package was enough to pry rondo away from the Celts, then even if he didn't want to sign here we could get a major trade boulder rolling out there and get significant pieces back in a 3-way deal. Just, like I say, a question of whether anything but a rondo would be enough for us to part with that package.

 

[Tetsujin]

There would be another way to pay things there. The problem is that Rondo is exactly what we want/need at the spot, but if that package was enough to pry rondo away from the Celts, then even if he didn't want to sign here we could get a major trade boulder rolling out there and get significant pieces back in a 3-way deal. Just, like I say, a question of whether anything but a rondo would be enough for us to part with that package.

The hard part would be untangling this year's pick. (Of course, in a perfect world, we somehow keep this year's pick and draft a Vonleh or WCS to compliment the Cuz/Gay/Rondo trio).

Another big sticking point for me is whether or not we have to take back Gerald Wallace's dumb contract.

 

[Bricklayer]

The hard part would be untangling this year's pick. (Of course, in a perfect world, we somehow keep this year's pick and draft a Vonleh or WCS to compliment the Cuz/Gay/Rondo trio).

Another big sticking point for me is whether or not we have to take back Gerald Wallace's dumb contract.

It becomes very difficult for us to construct a deal where we take back both Rondo and Wallace's deals at once, so I doubt that was in there.

 

[Tetsujin]

It becomes very difficult for us to construct a deal where we take back both Rondo and Wallace's deals at once, so I doubt that was in there.

Yeah. If we don't have to take Wallace's deal, I'd definitely do it regardless of Rondo not wanting to re-sign. If we had to take GW I'd blink... then take the deal.