Boogie and that All Star slot

[Gilles]

Of course, every statistic can be twisted as hard as you want: hey, look at that Marc guy right next to Boogie on that list , but what I want to point out is a pair from Portland. Aldridge has just under .500, because the other one gets .446, not because he's any kind of defender. Boogie just need such a player next to him... well, Boogie could've actually had this same guy.

 

[Tetsujin]

Of course, every statistic can be twisted as hard as you want: hey, look at that Marc guy right next to Boogie on that list , but what I want to point out is a pair from Portland. Aldridge has just under .500, because the other one gets .446, not because he's any kind of defender. Boogie just need such a player next to him... well, Boogie could've actually had this same guy.

Well a lot of the talk around the Blazers fan community is that Robin Lopez isn't necessarily that great at defense. Then again, a lot of them also still think T-Rob is a super viable NBA player

 

[jalfa]

Of course, every statistic can be twisted as hard as you want: hey, look at that Marc guy right next to Boogie on that list , but what I want to point out is a pair from Portland. Aldridge has just under .500, because the other one gets .446, not because he's any kind of defender. Boogie just need such a player next to him... well, Boogie could've actually had this same guy.

Gasol, of course, has been injured, but has reportedly also struggled under Joerger to begin the season. the sample size, at any rate, isn't enough on him this season. otherwise, the list seems to be pretty much in line with what you'd expect. outside of Hawes being up there, I suppose (even though he and his team are so soft on the boards that it really doesn't matter). your last point is key, though. the team needs an anchor that can play with Cuz. get that guy and we can start talking playoffs (not this season, obviously, but generally).

 

[Dreadnought]

Well a lot of the talk around the Blazers fan community is that Robin Lopez isn't necessarily that great at defense. Then again, a lot of them also still think T-Rob is a super viable NBA player

In the NBA forums I frequent, most have given up on him too. His only strengths are the position he was drafted and his young age. But if this many teams have given up on him by now, I really don't expect a huge upswing nontheless.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

From Bleacher Report

 

[Glenn]

HereWeVivek, where is that from?

 

[Widowmaker2k]

HereWeVivek, where is that from?

I believe it's from this Bleacher Report article, on why Cousins is likely the best center in the NBA: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...emarcus-cousins-as-the-best-center-in-the-nba

 

[twslam07]

Where are these people at? We need them to vote for him as an all star!!

 

[Bricklayer]

his impact on shots in the paint is his problem. he's fifth worst among guys that have had more than 6.5 FGA per game against them (kind of an arbitrary cut off, but it gives you useful results), ahead of only guys like Love, Pek, Glen Davis and Al Jefferson. he's also still pretty damn bad in transition and just doesn't hustle back consistently. he's been better, much better this year, but he's nowhere near good.

http://stats.nba.com/playerTracking...M&sortOrder=ASC&filters=FGA_DEFEND_RIM*GE*6.5

1) almost unique amongst modern bigs in that is a GOOD thing half the time -- he simply cannot risk fouls and take himself out of the offense. Roy Hibbert or Joakim Noah backs off guys driving and you are wondering WTF, that's what we pay you for. Cuz backs off and half the time its praiseworthy -- don't get the cheap foul.
2) he's not a shotblocker but is being used as such. I am confident almost any non-shotblocker being put in that defensive anchor position would have at rim results in the same range as bad. The difference is that Blake Griffin is never asked to stand back there and somehow redirect a wave of drivers coming his way.
3) and there is a WAVE of drivers coming this way as our backcourt defense is simply the worst in the NBA
4) and despite all that its hard to find the team defensive stat this year where we aren't better with him on the floor. DRTG, Defense per 100, Opp PER whatever. He leads us in basically every individual defensive stat both raw and advanced. best shotblocker, best stealer, best defensive rebounder, whatever.

The main problem is that he's being asked to be a shotblocker, and he just isn't. But who is that on exactly? If they decide Blake Griffin is the guy to go to at PG with CP3 out and he fails, that's hardly Blake's fault. And for All Star purposes the key thing is that only 1 of his main competitors excels in that shotblcoking role himself. And none of the other guys is even asked to do it. You can't say "oh that Boogie, he sure doesn't defend the rim" without acknowledging that Love, Aldridge, Dirk, Blake, Lee, Randolph etc. don't defend the rim either. The difference is that their organizations don't ask them to and they are rarely thrown out in that situation. They have to defend heir own men only, and come over on help sometimes against guys likely already with 1 defender still on them. Of course their percentages are going to be higher. Stick Dirk or Blake back in the paint alone and tell them to try to block or alter IT and Ben's men coming screaming around the corner all night and their at rim defensive percentages would plummet too.

 

[LPKingsFan]

1) almost unique amongst modern bigs in that is a GOOD thing half the time -- he simply cannot risk fouls and take himself out of the offense. Roy Hibbert or Joakim Noah backs off guys driving and you are wondering WTF, that's what we pay you for. Cuz backs off and half the time its praiseworthy -- don't get the cheap foul.
2) he's not a shotblocker but is being used as such. I am confident almost any non-shotblocker being put in that defensive anchor position would have at rim results in the same range as bad. The difference is that Blake Griffin is never asked to stand back there and somehow redirect a wave of drivers coming his way.
3) and there is a WAVE of drivers coming this way as our backcourt defense is simply the worst in the NBA
4) and despite all that its hard to find the team defensive stat this year where we aren't better with him on the floor. DRTG, Defense per 100, Opp PER whatever. He leads us in basically every individual defensive stat both raw and advanced. best shotblocker, best stealer, best defensive rebounder, whatever.

The main problem is that he's being asked to be a shotblocker, and he just isn't. But who is that on exactly? If they decide Blake Griffin is the guy to go to at PG with CP3 out and he fails, that's hardly Blake's fault. And for All Star purposes the key thing is that only 1 of his main competitors excels in that shotblcoking role himself. And none of the other guys is even asked to do it. You can't say "oh that Boogie, he sure doesn't defend the rim" without acknowledging that Love, Aldridge, Dirk, Blake, Lee, Randolph etc. don't defend the rim either. The difference is that their organizations don't ask them to and they are rarely thrown out in that situation. They have to defend heir own men only, and come over on help sometimes against guys likely already with 1 defender still on them. Of course their percentages are going to be higher. Stick Dirk or Blake back in the paint alone and tell them to try to block or alter IT and Ben's men coming screaming around the corner all night and their at rim defensive percentages would plummet too.

It seems like some of it just boils down to expectations of position. Cousins is currently playing at center, so he's compared to the Hibberts and Noahs and doesn't get a pass like the Loves and Griffins.

I'm not sure, though, that saying he's the best interior defender on the team is exactly a ringing endorsement!

 

[Bricklayer]

It seems like some of it just boils down to expectations of position. Cousins is currently playing at center, so he's compared to the Hibberts and Noahs and doesn't get a pass like the Loves and Griffins.

I'm not sure, though, that saying he's the best interior defender on the team is exactly a ringing endorsement!

There are no more centers, haven't you heard? Its all just "frontcourt" now.

So if the noveau dipcrap movement wants to play it that way in the All Star game I say hang them with it. If there are no more centers, and all the frontcourt guys are just compared to each other, then you can't say oh, this "frontcourt" guy also needs to block shots. Can't have your cake and eat it too. You want to try to force the idea of positionless basketball? cool, then you get to judge everybody on the same scale. You want to quit trying to outclever yourselves and bring back the C designation, then Boogie and Howard are the two without dispute. Either way Boogie belongs in.

 

[Fear the Putin]

There are no more centers, haven't you heard? Its all just "frontcourt" now.

So if the noveau dippoopoo movement wants to play it that way in the All Star game I say hang them with it. If there are no more centers, and all the frontcourt guys are just compared to each other, then you can't say oh, this "frontcourt" guy also needs to block shots. Can't have your cake and eat it too. You want to try to force the idea of positionless basketball? cool, then you get to judge everybody on the same scale. You want to quit trying to outclever yourselves and bring back the C designation, then Boogie and Howard are the two without dispute. Either way Boogie belongs in.

do you vote every day?

 

[Bricklayer]

do you vote every day?

almost. But obviously the real battles are elsewhere. I've been pestering the hell out of a wide swath of national writers. And you guys should get organized to show up in groups on the doorsteps of all the WC coaches the day before they send in their ballots.

 

[JSin]

Boogie has been making a case for himself since the beginning of the season. We can't expect the rest of the world to catch on when even people who post on this forum once a month or so call him immature and a cancer. People need to open their eyes and judge him on the present.

Hard to make that case to an outsider when Cousins still leads the NBA in technicals.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Now that I think about it, didn't your custom title used to be "The Devil's Advocate"?

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

It seems like some of it just boils down to expectations of position. Cousins is currently playing at center, so he's compared to the Hibberts and Noahs and doesn't get a pass like the Loves and Griffins.

So then put him at PF

 

[VF21]

Hard to make that case to an outsider when Cousins still leads the NBA in technicals.

Convoluted logic. Outsiders don't understand what technicals are or why players get them.

 

[The_Jamal]

Don't see how they can keep Cuz off the All-star game anymore, without considerable bias from the WC coaches

 

[JLoss22]

Don't see how they can keep Cuz off the All-star game anymore, without considerable bias from the WC coaches

Right now, Pop would be the coach. I don't think he would keep Cuz off the team.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Don't see how they can keep Cuz off the All-star game anymore, without considerable bias from the WC coaches

It's amazing how consistently great he' been this year. i can barely remember one bad game of his this season (when he had foul troubl vs. Warriors away).

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Right now, Pop would be the coach. I don't think he would keep Cuz off the team.

1. Yeah, but the coach of the All-Star team doesn't decide by fiat: all fifteen coaches in the conference vote on the reserves.
2. Even if that were how it worked, Pop wouldn't be the coach, anyway: you can't coach the All-Star game two years in a row. If the All-Star Break were this weekend, Stotts would be the coach.

 

[spudfan]

1. Yeah, but the coach of the All-Star team doesn't decide by fiat: all fifteen coaches in the conference vote on the reserves.
2. Even if that were how it worked, Pop wouldn't be the coach, anyway: you can't coach the All-Star game two years in a row. If the All-Star Break were this weekend, Stotts would be the coach.

Mr. Slim! You are so smart, you just solved the puzzle. We all thought Stotts winked at Cousins because they were talking about fouls but they were really talking about the All-Star game!

 

[jalfa]

1) almost unique amongst modern bigs in that is a GOOD thing half the time -- he simply cannot risk fouls and take himself out of the offense. Roy Hibbert or Joakim Noah backs off guys driving and you are wondering WTF, that's what we pay you for. Cuz backs off and half the time its praiseworthy -- don't get the cheap foul.
2) he's not a shotblocker but is being used as such. I am confident almost any non-shotblocker being put in that defensive anchor position would have at rim results in the same range as bad. The difference is that Blake Griffin is never asked to stand back there and somehow redirect a wave of drivers coming his way.
3) and there is a WAVE of drivers coming this way as our backcourt defense is simply the worst in the NBA
4) and despite all that its hard to find the team defensive stat this year where we aren't better with him on the floor. DRTG, Defense per 100, Opp PER whatever. He leads us in basically every individual defensive stat both raw and advanced. best shotblocker, best stealer, best defensive rebounder, whatever.

The main problem is that he's being asked to be a shotblocker, and he just isn't. But who is that on exactly? If they decide Blake Griffin is the guy to go to at PG with CP3 out and he fails, that's hardly Blake's fault. And for All Star purposes the key thing is that only 1 of his main competitors excels in that shotblcoking role himself. And none of the other guys is even asked to do it. You can't say "oh that Boogie, he sure doesn't defend the rim" without acknowledging that Love, Aldridge, Dirk, Blake, Lee, Randolph etc. don't defend the rim either. The difference is that their organizations don't ask them to and they are rarely thrown out in that situation. They have to defend heir own men only, and come over on help sometimes against guys likely already with 1 defender still on them. Of course their percentages are going to be higher. Stick Dirk or Blake back in the paint alone and tell them to try to block or alter IT and Ben's men coming screaming around the corner all night and their at rim defensive percentages would plummet too.

I strongly agree with the not-a-shotblocker-but-used-as-such angle and would love nothing more than to see him actually playing with one. the point that the rest of his team mates are kinda terrible at that defence thing is also fair. however, he still does a lot of things wrong. reaches/gambles too much, gets lost in rotations, is caught out of position, is inconsistent in his effort and gets beaten in transition too often. he's better and, most importantly, he now seems to get just how important defence is. heck, he just had the best defensive effort I can remember him having. his defensive ceiling is pretty high compared to most guys and you really do have to acknowledge his improvement (and he's still just 23 friggin years old). that said, I still think it's fair to call him a bad defender for the time being.

 

[I~true]

There shouldn't be an all-star game if he isn't on the team. His #'s are legit.

 

[JSin]

Convoluted logic. Outsiders don't understand what technicals are or why players get them.

Huh? NBA fans don't know what technicals are? What are you talking about?

 

[VF21]

Huh? NBA fans don't know what technicals are? What are you talking about?

You said "outsiders"... I took that to mean those who only listen to the news, base their opinions on what they hear, don't understand the nuances of basketball, etc.

 

[JSin]

You said "outsiders"... I took that to mean those who only listen to the news, base their opinions on what they hear, don't understand the nuances of basketball, etc.

I don't think those people care about Cousins... every NBA fan thinks he is a headcase, hard to argue when he leads the league in techs.

 

[Tetsujin]

I don't think those people care about Cousins... every NBA fan thinks he is a headcase, hard to argue when he leads the league in techs.

Like I've said in other threads, technical fouls are a very poor barometer of headcase-iness unless you're willing to add Kobe and Dwight Howard among other stars to your list of headcases.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You said "outsiders"... I took that to mean those who only listen to the news, base their opinions on what they hear, don't understand the nuances of basketball, etc.

I don't think those people care about Cousins... every NBA fan thinks he is a headcase, hard to argue when he leads the league in techs.

Well, that's probably a step overboard, Cap'n. Don't forget that you're not the only one around here who isn't surrounded by other Kings Fans on a regular basis... Cousins has no such reputation in this neck of the woods.

 

[Tetsujin]

Sacramento Kings ‏@SacramentoKings2m
DMC tallied his 10th straight double-double (longest streak since Chris Webber had 10 in 2002-03). #ForeverPurple