Boogie and that All Star slot

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
So, this is probably not going to matter unless we start to win some games, but scanning some stats I came across something interesting: The West sucks. Been 20 years since you could say that. But the "frontcourt (including SF)" star talent in this league has starting shifting to the East. And that opens up a door here that deserves a thread. Boogie is hurt because of the NBA's asinine decision to bow to the noveau know nothings and try to extinguish centers as a separate position. So now instead we just get "frontcourt" & "backcourt" players. but I would imagine that the coaches will continue to largely select guys with some feel for position, and in any case right now there is such a dearth of frontcourt stars in the West that if you assume 7 frontcourt guys and 5 guards, its hard to find 7 that would get in ahead of Cuz on merit this time. To whit, West's top frontcourt guys -- all Cs, PFs and SFs averaging 15+ ppg:

SFs (extended to 14.5ppg because of lack of options)
Durant 29.6pts (.459) 6.2reb 4.0ast 2.0stl 0.6blk
Igoudala 14.5ppg (.569) 5.2reb 4.3ast 2.3stl 0.5blk

PFs
Kevin Love 27.2pts (.474) 14.7reb 5.0ast 0.5stl 0.7blk
LaMarcus Aldridge 23.6pts (.519) 6.4reb 2.4ast 0.8stl 1.0blk
Anthony Davis 23.0pts (.471) 11.5reb 1.7ast 2.0stl 4.3blk
Blake Griffin 21.7pts (.591) 11.3reb 2.8ast 1.2stl 0.8blk
David Lee 19.0pts (.542) 9.5reb 2.7ast 0.7stl 0.3blk
Dirk Nowitzki 18.5pts (.455) 5.2reb 2.7ast 1.3stl 0.2blk

Cs
Cousins 21.6pts (.478) 9.2reb 1.6ast 2.4stl 1.2blk
Howard 17.0pts (.547) 14.5reb 1.2ast 0.3stl 1.3blk
Kanter 16.8pts (.524) 8.3reb 1.2ast 0.0stl 0.5blk
MGasol 15.4pts (.500) 6.2reb 2.8ast 0.6stl 0.6blk


Out of those I see guys either starting via vote, or having hype , or winning teams being: Durant, Love, Aldridge, Davis, Griffin, Howard. That's 6. Leaving Cousins scrumming with Igoudala, Lee, Dirk, Knater and MGasol. He's better than any. Normally I think coaches would be reluctant to make Lee into a multiple time All Star too, but the danger would seem to come if there was a push to give Golden State a second All Star, and Klay isn't able to secure it in the backcourt. then Iggy or Lee is #7. Similarly Dirk is done, but if Dallas is a +.500 team he could still get the old fossil vote. If they respect the "Center" distinction, the competition is limited. More likely they just call Davis a C for their purposes. Anybody gets injured its hard to see the numbers to keep him out. At the least he would be the league's top snub.
 
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Glenn

Hall of Famer
#2
I doubt he will be voted in unless he continues with eye popping numbers and stays out of trouble. It would also help of the Kings won. His problem with the fans is his reputation. I also think he has a problem with the coaches as there are two real live centers in Davis and Howard available. I sure would like to see him in a line up with Davis but maybe that will be some other year. I think he deserves to be there but it will be difficult.
 
#3
So, this is probably not going to matter unless we start to win some games, but scanning some stats I came across something interesting: The West sucks. Been 20 years since you could say that. But the "frontcourt (including SF)" star talent in this league has starting shifting to the East. And that opens up a door here that deserves a thread. Boogie is hurt because of the NBA's asinine decision to bow to the noveau know nothings and try to extinguish centers as a separate position. So now instead we just get "frontcourt" & "backcourt" players. but I would imagine that the coaches will continue to largely select guys with some feel for position, and in any case right now there is such a dearth of frontcourt stars in the West that if you assume 7 frontcourt guys and 5 guards, its hard to find 7 that would get in ahead of Cuz on merit this time. To whit, West's top frontcourt guys -- all Cs, PFs and SFs averaging 15+ ppg:

SFs (extended to 14.5ppg because of lack of options)
Durant 29.6pts (.459) 6.2reb 4.0ast 2.0stl 0.6blk
Igoudala 14.5ppg (.569) 5.2reb 4.3ast 2.3stl 0.5blk

PFs
Kevin Love 27.2pts (.474) 14.7reb 5.0ast 0.5stl 0.7blk
LaMarcus Aldridge 23.6pts (.519) 6.4reb 2.4ast 0.8stl 1.0blk
Anthony Davis 23.0pts (.471) 11.5reb 1.7ast 2.0stl 4.3blk
Blake Griffin 21.7pts (.591) 11.3reb 2.8ast 1.2stl 0.8blk
David Lee 19.0pts (.542) 9.5reb 2.7ast 0.7stl 0.3blk
Dirk Nowitzki 18.5pts (.455) 5.2reb 2.7ast 1.3stl 0.2blk

Cs
Cousins 21.6pts (.478) 9.2reb 1.6ast 2.4stl 1.2blk
Howard 17.0pts (.547) 14.5reb 1.2ast 0.3stl 1.3blk
Kanter 16.8pts (.524) 8.3reb 1.2ast 0.0stl 0.5blk
MGasol 15.4pts (.500) 6.2reb 2.8ast 0.6stl 0.6blk


Out of those I see guys either starting via vote, or having hype , or winning teams being: Durant, Love, Aldridge, Davis, Griffin, Howard. That's 6. Leaving Cousins scrumming with Igoudala, Lee, Dirk, Knater and MGasol. He's better than any. Normally I think coaches would be reluctant to make Lee into a multiple time All Star too, but the danger would seem to come if there was a push to give Golden State a second All Star, and Klay isn't able to secure it in the backcourt. then Iggy or Lee is #7. Similarly Dirk is done, but if Dallas is a +.500 team he could still get the old fossil vote. If they respect the "Center" distinction, the competition is limited. More likely they just call Davis a C for their purposes. Anybody gets injured its hard to see the numbers to keep him out. At the least he would be the league's top snub.
Uhh....no.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
He could average 50-25-5 and won't get voted in. We know how this goes Dwight will get it regardless
You need to read all of Bricklayer's post. DMC wouldn't be up against Howard, who would already be in... Brick is talking about the coaches' pick, not the general voting.
 
#9
Althouh this doesn't concern Demarcus, it concerns another potential All-Star Weekend candiddate on our team. Ben McLemore. How does he get into the 3-point shootout? Is it by amount of threes made or...? And is it the same for dunks? I wouldn't be surprised if one year, he's in the Dunk Contest, 3 point shootout, and All-Star game all in one weeked. :D
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#10
Althouh this doesn't concern Demarcus, it concerns another potential All-Star Weekend candiddate on our team. Ben McLemore. How does he get into the 3-point shootout? Is it by amount of threes made or...? And is it the same for dunks? I wouldn't be surprised if one year, he's in the Dunk Contest, 3 point shootout, and All-Star game all in one weeked. :D
The selection for the contests is largely arbitrary and not decided by any particular statistic. Hence random end-of-the-bench guys routinely getting into the dunk contest.
 
#11
It would be nice to see him there but think players on losing squads usually suffer re coaches votes. And although less talent in the west than previous years, still only a few spots available.

Still though reason for optimism.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#13
I've decided to expand this and make it an everything Cousins thread. We may not have much, but we got Boogie.

For Sac people maybe fun to hear other announcers talk about him too since I know Grant & Jerry make every Tom, Dick and Outlaw in a Kings uni sound like the bees knees:

 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#14
And btw, his numbers after tonight were, as I mentioned above:

23.5pts (.491) 9.7reb 1.3ast 2.2stl 1.2blk

I ran a search on basketball-reference.com, and in the modern era (I restricted it to 1979-80 and later) only 1 player has ever averaged 23.5pt 9.7reb and .491 shooting in a season and not made the All Star game, and that was a rookie, Terry Cummings over 30 years ago in 1982-83. Shaq also did not make it in the strike shortened '99 season with those numbers simply because there was no All Star game to make.

So basically there has never been a non-rookie to post those numbers and not make it, let alone in the big man starved modern NBA. Could Cuz be the first? With his rep, sure. That's why I think he should just push it up over 25ppg and eliminate all doubt. :p
 
#15
And btw, his numbers after tonight were, as I mentioned above:

23.5pts (.491) 9.7reb 1.3ast 2.2stl 1.2blk

I ran a search on basketball-reference.com, and in the modern era (I restricted it to 1979-80 and later) only 1 player has ever averaged 23.5pt 9.7reb and .491 shooting in a season and not made the All Star game, and that was a rookie, Terry Cummings over 30 years ago in 1982-83. Shaq also did not make it in the strike shortened '99 season with those numbers simply because there was no All Star game to make.

So basically there has never been a non-rookie to post those numbers and not make it, let alone in the big man starved modern NBA. Could Cuz be the first? With his rep, sure. That's why I think he should just push it up over 25ppg and eliminate all doubt. :p
I still think our record will have a part to play in the ultimate selection, no matter what Cousins' stat-line is. Hopefully with Shaq and Cwebb drawing some attention to Cousins' play our record won't be held too significantly against him.

Just to carry over my post from the other thread:
It's probably going to come down to Davis/Cuz/Love/Duncan? for the backup bigs. Starters will be Dwight and ... my guess is Blake Griffin. Then again, if Vivek can mobilize all of India to vote for Cuz he could have a small shot at getting the starting position over China-backed Dwight.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
I still think our record will have a part to play in the ultimate selection, no matter what Cousins' stat-line is. Hopefully with Shaq and Cwebb drawing some attention to Cousins' play our record won't be held too significantly against him.

Just to carry over my post from the other thread:
It's probably going to come down to Davis/Cuz/Love/Duncan? for the backup bigs. Starters will be Dwight and ... my guess is Blake Griffin. Then again, if Vivek can mobilize all of India to vote for Cuz he could have a small shot at getting the starting position over China-backed Dwight.
Duncan is a danger. Less so if he's averaging 13 and 6 on 45% shooting.

Let me assume a slight bump to Boogie's numbers. He's 23.5 9.7 now. Put him at 24-11 and no big guy in the HISTORY of the league (modern history I say, since once upon a time 11rebs wasn't much) has ever missed the All Star game with those numbers. Right now he the leading center scorer by 3.5 pts over the other Lopez. The 7th leading scorer in the NBA. If he keeps that pace up it makes it very hard to keep him out even if we suck, just as it was for Love and Kyrie. Golden State getting the good team bonus All Star, or the old battleships in San Antonio and Dallas getting the old man pity votes look like the biggest challenges. At 20ppg you can keep him out due to record. At 22ppg it becomes a notable snub. At 24ppg? With 10ish rebs? That's a notable event.
 
#17
If he keeps it up I see no reason why he wont get the second center spot. If he can keep his head on straight and you add in Shaq being seen widely on tnt there is alot in Demarcus favor this year.

His big games this year have all been against the wests top frontlines outside of that GS hiccup ( next game he will light up Bogut). Im interested to see what he does against Howard I dont see Howard now as much of anything except a name , Im confident Boogie could get 25/11 on him if he is ready to run that night
 
#18
Au contraire.

To expand...If DMC is able to put up the numbers AND keep his cool, I'm almost certain he will be rewarded for his good behavior.
Maybe, but Anthony Davis is playing out of his mind. Both ends of the court. And is steady mentally.

And that's not a knock on cousins. But Davis is another stratosphere right now. Cousins has all star numbers. If you don't count wins. :)
 
#19
Maybe, but Anthony Davis is playing out of his mind. Both ends of the court. And is steady mentally.

And that's not a knock on cousins. But Davis is another stratosphere right now. Cousins has all star numbers. If you don't count wins. :)
plus, the Allstar Game is in New Orleans, which might be another point in Davis' favour. it'd really surprise me, if he didn't get in, barring an injury.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#20
Maybe, but Anthony Davis is playing out of his mind. Both ends of the court. And is steady mentally.

And that's not a knock on cousins. But Davis is another stratosphere right now. Cousins has all star numbers. If you don't count wins. :)
Cousins wouldn't be competing with Davis for a slot. To quote Brick's initial post:

Out of those I see guys either starting via vote, or having hype , or winning teams being: Durant, Love, Aldridge, Davis, Griffin, Howard. That's 6. Leaving Cousins scrumming with Igoudala, Lee, Dirk, Knater and MGasol.
 
#21
I wish Cousins well in this effort to see him recognized around the league but my greatest interest is in seeing the team improve as a team. I wish Cousins luck in helping that happen.
 
#22
And btw, his numbers after tonight were, as I mentioned above:

23.5pts (.491) 9.7reb 1.3ast 2.2stl 1.2blk

I ran a search on basketball-reference.com, and in the modern era (I restricted it to 1979-80 and later) only 1 player has ever averaged 23.5pt 9.7reb and .491 shooting in a season and not made the All Star game, and that was a rookie, Terry Cummings over 30 years ago in 1982-83. Shaq also did not make it in the strike shortened '99 season with those numbers simply because there was no All Star game to make.

So basically there has never been a non-rookie to post those numbers and not make it, let alone in the big man starved modern NBA. Could Cuz be the first? With his rep, sure. That's why I think he should just push it up over 25ppg and eliminate all doubt. :p
If he posts those numbers for the first half then he will be an all star and would have a problem if he wasn't.

The 2 biggest obstacles to him becoming a franchise player are as follows:

1) he hasn't been very efficient offensively. There are only so many shots in a game and no matter what your final point total is if you use those possessions inefficiently you rob your team of a chance to win. He is shooting 49% this year and combine that with his free throw attemtps is all star worthy. Will it stay that way? History says otherwise but if it does then Kings will have a chance to win a lot of games.

2) His lack of defensive effort without just getting pissed and fouling. Many nights in the past he would score 25 and the guy he was guarding would score 30. This has changed for now but he was a much better defender at the beginning of last year too.

Most of the guys on your list of players that Cousins was "better than any" are either clearly more efficient offensively, much, much better defenders or both more efficient and better defenders.

If Cousins continues his offensive efficiency and his overall improved defensive effort while keeping his cool then I will have a big problem with him not being included in the all star game.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#23
Out of those I see guys either starting via vote, or having hype , or winning teams being: Durant, Love, Aldridge, Davis, Griffin, Howard. That's 6. Leaving Cousins scrumming with Igoudala, Lee, Dirk, Knater and MGasol. He's better than any.
The only problem with this thinking is that of the six forward slots you've accounted for, only one is a SF. Even in an All-Star Game where the result doesn't matter, I don't see the team being put together in such an unbalanced way that there are 6 PF/Cs and only one SF. So Iggy (or Parsons or Hayward or Batum or whoever happens to be hot) probably gets in as a second SF. That means Cousins has to beat out one of the Love/Aldridge/Davis/Griffin/Howard bunch. Maybe somebody gets hurt, or maybe somebody drops off enough that Cousins is a clearly superior alternative. Maybe the coaches' pick penalizes Aldridge for his lack of rebounding. But Cousins has that "bad reputation" following him and all else being close to equal, the "good reputation" guys probably beat him out.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#24
The only problem with this thinking is that of the six forward slots you've accounted for, only one is a SF. Even in an All-Star Game where the result doesn't matter, I don't see the team being put together in such an unbalanced way that there are 6 PF/Cs and only one SF. So Iggy (or Parsons or Hayward or Batum or whoever happens to be hot) probably gets in as a second SF. That means Cousins has to beat out one of the Love/Aldridge/Davis/Griffin/Howard bunch. Maybe somebody gets hurt, or maybe somebody drops off enough that Cousins is a clearly superior alternative. Maybe the coaches' pick penalizes Aldridge for his lack of rebounding. But Cousins has that "bad reputation" following him and all else being close to equal, the "good reputation" guys probably beat him out.
Yes. Even if the forwards and centers are grouped as one, coaches still have to place people on the court in some manner that makes sense. In addition to what you said, I think Cousins has to beat out two of Davis, Gasol, or Howard as there is no room for 3 centers on an all star team.
 
#26
For this to happen the team HAS to keep feeding him and keep him involved. There tends to be these stretches where he's kind of forgotten about. Even the blazers announcers commented a couple times about it. I think they're doing a pretty good job currently, compared to the past, but I fear it'll quickly fall off.

Strangely, I also feel like he's been robbed of some steals and blocks and even a rebound on the stat sheets. I'm almost always obsessively watching the box scores per possession. Maybe I'm crazy? Has anyone else noticed this?
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#27
For this to happen the team HAS to keep feeding him and keep him involved. There tends to be these stretches where he's kind of forgotten about. Even the blazers announcers commented a couple times about it. I think they're doing a pretty good job currently, compared to the past, but I fear it'll quickly fall off.

Strangely, I also feel like he's been robbed of some steals and blocks and even a rebound on the stat sheets. I'm almost always obsessively watching the box scores per possession. Maybe I'm crazy? Has anyone else noticed this?
I haven't noticed that you are crazy if that's what you are asking. ;) It ought to be an offense worthy of a fine to ignore Boogie.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#28
For this to happen the team HAS to keep feeding him and keep him involved. There tends to be these stretches where he's kind of forgotten about. Even the blazers announcers commented a couple times about it. I think they're doing a pretty good job currently, compared to the past, but I fear it'll quickly fall off.

Strangely, I also feel like he's been robbed of some steals and blocks and even a rebound on the stat sheets. I'm almost always obsessively watching the box scores per possession. Maybe I'm crazy? Has anyone else noticed this?
Nope, you're not crazy. Grant has even eluded to it on occasion.
 
#29
For this to happen the team HAS to keep feeding him and keep him involved. There tends to be these stretches where he's kind of forgotten about. Even the blazers announcers commented a couple times about it. I think they're doing a pretty good job currently, compared to the past, but I fear it'll quickly fall off.

Strangely, I also feel like he's been robbed of some steals and blocks and even a rebound on the stat sheets. I'm almost always obsessively watching the box scores per possession. Maybe I'm crazy? Has anyone else noticed this?
In the video Brick linked to(2:06), on the full court pass to IT which was tipped a little bit and lead to a layup he wasn't credited with an assist. He is on my fantasy team so I too watch the box score closely ;) Besides that there have been a lot of poor score keeping this year.