Kings active in trade talks?

[Capt. Factorial]

Man, I just went back and tried the trade again on ESPN trade checker and once again, it failed. It has to be that Real GM is taking the Knicks trade exception into consideration and ESPN isn't. In any event, if the trade is possible, then I'd trade Jimmer straight up for Shumpert. The problem is, I thought the Knicks were looking for frontcourt help.

Hmm. This is getting curious. The trade would work straight up under the 150% + 100K rule...but the problem is that that rule only applies to non-taxpayer teams, and the Knicks are over the tax. That means they are restricted to 125% + 100K, and the trade no longer works with that restriction. The Knicks' trade exception is only for $850K, not enough to trade for Jimmer alone. And the trade exception can't be combined with the 125% + 100K rule, not allowed.

So it looks like ESPN is right and RealGM is wrong.

However, there is a way to make this trade work, if the Knicks are really into it. If we kick in Hamady N'Diaye and the Knicks kick in Cole Aldrich (both guys make the same amount, both unguaranteed), then the increase in total salary brings the 125% + 100K rule into play - we'd be clear by a whole $11K! But, those guys (Aldrich and N'Diaye) can't be traded until December 15th.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

No way New York bites on a Jimmer for Shumpert trade straight up.

If that's the case then reports that we are mulling over Shumpert are probably false. I can't imagine we'd give up IT for Shumpert - if we're dealing IT it should be in a package for a starting SF, not a backup SG. And there's really no other fit.

 

[bajaden]

If that's the case then reports that we are mulling over Shumpert are probably false. I can't imagine we'd give up IT for Shumpert - if we're dealing IT it should be in a package for a starting SF, not a backup SG. And there's really no other fit.[/quote

Hmm. This is getting curious. The trade would work straight up under the 150% + 100K rule...but the problem is that that rule only applies to non-taxpayer teams, and the Knicks are over the tax. That means they are restricted to 125% + 100K, and the trade no longer works with that restriction. The Knicks' trade exception is only for $850K, not enough to trade for Jimmer alone. And the trade exception can't be combined with the 125% + 100K rule, not allowed.

So it looks like ESPN is right and RealGM is wrong.

However, there is a way to make this trade work, if the Knicks are really into it. If we kick in Hamady N'Diaye and the Knicks kick in Cole Aldrich (both guys make the same amount, both unguaranteed), then the increase in total salary brings the 125% + 100K rule into play - we'd be clear by a whole $11K! But, those guys (Aldrich and N'Diaye) can't be traded until December 15th.

Ahhhh, vindication! I love being right, especially when the Capt is involved. I can count the number of times that I've been right and the Capt has been wrong on one finger. Not a good track record for me. But its a start!

 

[Chubbs]

if the idea is to start mclemore at SG, and rid ourselves of thornton/fredette/salmons (who is a natural SG, let's not forget), then somebody has to replace that dead weight on the bench. shumpert is a very solid defensive option to fill that role. he's a high-effort utility player in the vein of doug christie, and guys like that are valuable to teams hoping to contend for a playoff spot in the near future...

I was wondering when someone would mention that salmons is also playing out of position. I'm kinda tired of that.

I'm not familiar enough with Shumpert. Obviously, if there is legit talent there, I'd ship out all the SGs and SFs we have (that aren't McLemore) and take him, but on the surface, he's too small for SF. And it doesn't sound like a trade would fit financially.

I should have read the whole thing. Jimmer for Shumpert? In a heartbeat.

 

[Bricklayer]

I have

If that's the case then reports that we are mulling over Shumpert are probably false. I can't imagine we'd give up IT for Shumpert - if we're dealing IT it should be in a package for a starting SF, not a backup SG. And there's really no other fit.

I have no idea why the conversation would jump right over to IT. The whole Jimmer thing is really just a joke anyway again. A salary matching quirk. Rumor was that NY was looking fro frontcourt help, specifically Fareid. Of course that was before McGee got hurt, but still gives some idea of level of player and position that NY was initially looking at. In both the NY and HOU scenarios Patterson remains a person of interest I would think, largely because both franchises are a bunch of stupid smallball chuckers with no future.

 

[bajaden]

I figured out a three way trade that works for us, and the Knicks, but I doubt Denver would love it. Anyway, here it is.

Knicks acquire Faried.
Knicks trade Shumpert

Denver acquires Patterson.
Denver trades Faried.

Kings acquire Shumpert and Hamilton.
Kings trade Patterson.

The Knicks get the player they wanted in Faried, so they're happy. Denver gets a PF that can spread the floor (on paper recently), but I doubt they'd go for the deal. The Kings are very happy. The get Shumpert, and also acquire a young SF with potential in Jordan Hamilton. Of course the Nuggets would probably want more for Faried, but I'm sure there are ways to rework this deal to make it work. One of the things Denver was asking for was a first round pick in the next draft, which the Knicks were reluctant to give up. The way they've been playing, I can't blame them

 

[randymoss1881]

The fact that some of you think knicks would even answer the phone to a Jimmer for shumpart deal is amazing. I'm sure kings know we can't match anyone's offer for him with the lack of assists. The only deal I see being possible is including amera which nobody else would do

Thorntan
Thompson
Jimmer
Hayes

For

Amera and shumpart

We just don't have assits to entice them for shumpart straight up. It depends how much we value shumpart. Amera contracting is ending next year so paying him 23 would be the same as paying Hayes thorntan and Jimmer for the next 2 years. Amera can play 12-16min off the bench with landry.

Having mclemore/shumpart rotation is solid at the 2 and going small.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I doubt we have serious interest in Shumpert, PDA just making a call as he always does.. Jimmer and PPat - if they don't have value here they don't have value there

 

[sdballer]

The fact that some of you think knicks would even answer the phone to a Jimmer for shumpart deal is amazing. I'm sure kings know we can't match anyone's offer for him with the lack of assists. The only deal I see being possible is including amera which nobody else would do

Thorntan
Thompson
Jimmer
Hayes

For

Amera and shumpart

We just don't have assits to entice them for shumpart straight up. It depends how much we value shumpart. Amera contracting is ending next year so paying him 23 would be the same as paying Hayes thorntan and Jimmer for the next 2 years. Amera can play 12-16min off the bench with landry.

Having mclemore/shumpart rotation is solid at the 2 and going small.

No offense but that's an awful deal. Hayes, Thornton and Thompson being paid less overall than Amare says everything we need to know about this deal. I like shumpert but not at the cost of taking on amare while getting rid of our big man depth plus a good scorer who still has value in the right teams.

 

[upinsmoke]

We most likely don't have the assets to acquire shumpart straight up HOWEVER with some creativity we can facilitate a trade between Houston and NY with some of our expiring contracts. Could Houston be interested in Chandler for example.

 

[Padrino]

nba.com's scott howard-cooper says kings are aggressive in trade talks:

Filed to http://NBA.com: Kings aggressively pursuing trade possibilities, wanting a deal now, not the Feb. deadline. Link to come.

https://twitter.com/SHowardCooper/status/403211702411341824

Focus is on picks and prospects, not a specific position.

https://twitter.com/SHowardCooper/status/403212986493304832

if it's true that they're considering moving some of their veteran dead weight for picks/prospects, then the tasteful tank, as i prefer to call it, is officially on. i'll post the link to the story when it hits nba.com, if someone else doesn't beat me to it first...

 

[Dime Dropper]

Good. I don't mind being aggressive as long as it's for more picks or young guys (preferably picks) but I don't want more mediocrity. We already have that. That said, it's going to be next to impossible to turn anything we have into picks.

 

[Padrino]

Good. I don't mind being aggressive as long as it's for more picks or young guys (preferably picks) but I don't want more mediocrity. We already have that. That said, it's going to be next to impossible to turn anything we have into picks.

i don't know about that. a team in win-now mode may very well be interested in a guy like JT or a guy like marcus thornton. on a bad team, their flaws are mightily exposed. on a good team, they can blend in a little better, JT in particular. there's plenty of teams in the playoff mix looking for big man depth or additional scoring off the bench. but you're right, as far as draft picks are concerned, we're probably not talking about anything better than late first rounders and/or second rounders for the kings' scraps. but it is my opinion that shifting some of this team's dead weight for any combination of picks/prospects/enders is a good move. trading, say, jason thompson wouldn't be my first choice, but a guy like that does have value...

anyway, here's the link to scott howard-cooper's story:

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/11/20/kings-3-7-pushing-hard-for-a-trade/

 

[annihilator_33]

I wonder if Thornton not playing last night means something is imminent

 

[Spike]

I like the picks/prospects tank. It smells of having an actual plan. Even better that our name is the first one out there - "Hey! Fire sale in Sacramento!" Teams not happy with their current situation might think someone like Thornton/IT/Hayes could help them out, and while they actually might, they could provide the opposite effect, leaving us with a stronger draft pick. The earlier in the season it is, the more of a gamble it becomes for both teams. After the deadline, you pretty much know what you'll get in return in terms of extra draft pick.

You never know - we could end up with 2 picks in the top 10.

 

[funkykingston]

I like the picks/prospects tank. It smells of having an actual plan. Even better that our name is the first one out there - "Hey! Fire sale in Sacramento!" Teams not happy with their current situation might think someone like Thornton/IT/Hayes could help them out, and while they actually might, they could provide the opposite effect, leaving us with a stronger draft pick. The earlier in the season it is, the more of a gamble it becomes for both teams. After the deadline, you pretty much know what you'll get in return in terms of extra draft pick.

You never know - we could end up with 2 picks in the top 10.

That'd be a wonderful thing but I can't imagine a single team trading a 1st rounder in this draft without lottery or top 15 protection attached to it.

 

[Glenn]

I like the picks/prospects tank. It smells of having an actual plan. Even better that our name is the first one out there - "Hey! Fire sale in Sacramento!" Teams not happy with their current situation might think someone like Thornton/IT/Hayes could help them out, and while they actually might, they could provide the opposite effect, leaving us with a stronger draft pick. The earlier in the season it is, the more of a gamble it becomes for both teams. After the deadline, you pretty much know what you'll get in return in terms of extra draft pick.

You never know - we could end up with 2 picks in the top 10.

Cross your fingers and toes and if you can't do it, I will help. Wouldn't this be amazing??? It's not going to happen but even a late first rounder would at least give hope.

 

[Kingster]

nba.com's scott howard-cooper says kings are aggressive in trade talks:



https://twitter.com/SHowardCooper/status/403211702411341824



https://twitter.com/SHowardCooper/status/403212986493304832

if it's true that they're considering moving some of their veteran dead weight for picks/prospects, then the tasteful tank, as i prefer to call it, is officially on. i'll post the link to the story when it hits nba.com, if someone else doesn't beat me to it first...

If in fact it's picks and young prospects, that is exactly the strategy that I'm on board with. It makes no sense to exchange mediocre vets for mediocre vets.

 

[Glenn]

If in fact it's picks and young prospects, that is exactly the strategy that I'm on board with. It makes no sense to exchange mediocre vets for mediocre vets.

And this is what the average trade idea consists of on this forum. I absolutely agree with you. I would like a late first rounder and certainly we could trade somebody and get that. It might not pay off and it might pay off nicely. We absolutely know the inadequacies of the mediocre vets we like to trade for and we also know many have no upside whatsoever. The league is replete with surprises that come out of the draft. Let's take a shot. What's to be lost?

 

[jalfa]

theoretically, Thornton would be an ideal add for a contender/fringe playoff team. however, this specific season, I don't see any of those teams needing guard help. they either have strong-ish guard play or at least guys that do the exact thing Thornton is doing.

 

[sdballer]

theoretically, Thornton would be an ideal add for a contender/fringe playoff team. however, this specific season, I don't see any of those teams needing guard help. they either have strong-ish guard play or at least guys that do the exact thing Thornton is doing.

Chicago, Detroit, memphis, okc

 

[Kingsfan23]

I actually thought MArcus had negative trade value before the season started, now I really would be surprised if he could be given away until next year as an expiring

 

[bajaden]

If in fact it's picks and young prospects, that is exactly the strategy that I'm on board with. It makes no sense to exchange mediocre vets for mediocre vets.

I agree 100%. There are a lot of ways to build a contender, and in my opinion, the best way to build your core is through the draft, and then fill in the other pieces with freeagents. Just acquiring veterans for the sake of acquiring veterans, doesn't always work. Its one thing if you acquire a veteran with good habits, but its another if you acquire one with bad habits. As the saying goes, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Right now, the Kings have a few dogs that won't learn new tricks. Time to put them down!

 

[jalfa]

Chicago, Detroit, memphis, okc

Chicago is more of a possibility, now that Butler is having health problems, but they're unlikely to burden themselves with MT's contract when there are better options out there. Memphis has Bayless and a gm that's very unlikely to look favourably upon Thornton, Detroit has Stuckey and OKC is much more desperate for frontcourt help than they are for backcourt help and is more likely to spend their assets there.

 

[Glenn]

I actually thought MArcus had negative trade value before the season started, now I really would be surprised if he could be given away until next year as an expiring

This is mean. Might be true but I doubt it. We were singing his praises about a week ago after a hot game. I don't have a clue what has happened to him and maybe another team would be a better fit. The guy has talent I think.

 

[jpsls]

This is mean. Might be true but I doubt it. We were singing his praises about a week ago after a hot game. I don't have a clue what has happened to him and maybe another team would be a better fit. The guy has talent I think.

He's not a system player. That's his problem. He needs to play for a coach who will let him shoot with reckless abandon.

 

[Spike]

That'd be a wonderful thing but I can't imagine a single team trading a 1st rounder in this draft without lottery or top 15 protection attached to it.

I see it two ways:

1. A team might be so sure that they just need a few complementary pieces, so they'd be willing to throw in an unprotected pick if it gets them the player they think they need in order to get over the hump. Think of some one like the Bulls, Thunder, Rockets, Mavs, 76ers, etc.

2. If we grab enough picks/prospects, we might be able to spin it for an extra pick in the top 10. Someone at #8 might be enticed by our #14 + young prospect, for example.

 

[jpsls]

I see it two ways:

1. A team might be so sure that they just need a few complementary pieces, so they'd be willing to throw in an unprotected pick if it gets them the player they think they need in order to get over the hump.

2. If we grab enough picks/prospects, we might be able to spin it for an extra pick in the top 10. Someone at #8 might be enticed by our #14 + young prospect, for example.

I don't really see anybody on our roster outside of Cousins who would be capable of getting a team over the hump. We're looking at second rounders or late 1st rounders realistically.

 

[Spike]

Oh, I don't know. Marcus Thornton could be that guy, depending on what he's being asked to do. Ditto IT. JT could surely shore up someone's frontcourt. My point is if we're trading this early in the year, there's no guarantee that the pick will be a late 1st - it's likely, however, that it will be.
That's where #2 comes in - if PDA is as smart as mgmt. seems to think he is, then picks+prospects to move up in the draft is a possibility.

 

[Padrino]

as much as i like to hear that the kings hoping to move their dead weight for picks/prospects as soon as possible, it's unlikely that they'll have much success doing so at this early point in the season. prior to the trade deadline is when playoff teams missing a piece or two get the most desperate, and that's when you're more likely to move a guy like marcus thornton, whose contract is not going to be desirable to anybody that can't find a use for him as part of a "win now" strategy. d'allesandro could get lucky, of course. there are a few teams out there who are scrambling in light of disappointing starts. the kings might be able to ship out, say, patrick patterson to a team that's looking for a stretch-4, since they're all the rage these days. who knows? i'm not sure that much will happen on the trade front until we get closer to the deadline in february, but it's encouraging to know that the plan is try and dump the players who don't figure into the team's long term plans, in favor of draft picks and prospects...