Greivis Vasquez triple double 2/8/13 highlights
- Thread starter Tmassfan4life
- Start date
Famous for it. Was a study done several years back and they led the league in the split between the number of assists their PGs got at home vs. on the road.
In this case though the splits don't look too obvious that way. It was 9.86 ast/per 36 at home, vs. 9.08 ast/per 36 on the road. That could be some of their old number jiggering, but its looks to be within the curve of legitimate possibility.
In this case though the splits don't look too obvious that way. It was 9.86 ast/per 36 at home, vs. 9.08 ast/per 36 on the road. That could be some of their old number jiggering, but its looks to be within the curve of legitimate possibility.
It was the same with Chris Paul as well. This video (horrible quality) explain what I mean... Which kind of assists...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO9yI6YqAis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO9yI6YqAis
Was about to say that Per game his home and away was pretty close. 9.2 to 8.9 but it looks like you had it up. I see you used the 36 to maybe show more of a disparity? Anyway, the difference per game was only .3 so it's no big deal for me.
Vasquez actually scored better on the road and rebounded better. 4.6 away and 4.1 at home rebounds per game. Scoring had a large margin between home and away. At home Vasquez only scored 12.7ppg and away he scored 15.1ppg
So Greivis's road game stats were;
15.1ppg 4.6rpg 8.9apg 44.1%fg 34.8%3ptFG 85.9%ft
Not too shabby!
He did have one more turn over per game on the road though.
Last edited:
Shooting is the one thing we shouldn't be primarily concerned about with our PG. See: last season. The team had a ton of shoot-first players, and no distributors. The team was 25th in the league in assists, and they just picked up the league's assist leader on a team whose best scoring option was Ryan Anderson. I'm ok with this.
it doesn't, it's also really irrelevant to the point here then. just assumed you might actually have something to say about that. for the record, I never cited Roberts as proof, just as an indicator in case someone would think there's no merit to the discussion at all (which seemed to be the case in the post I was quoting).
P.S.: for somebody as bullish as you've been on Vasquez not to have looked closely into the circumstances of his play seems a bit lazy. sorry.
P.S.: for somebody as bullish as you've been on Vasquez not to have looked closely into the circumstances of his play seems a bit lazy. sorry.
Last edited:
Well, I don't really put much belief into counting stats like counting stats like APG anyway. As been pointed out, it's subjective as to what is an "assist" and the concept is just flawed in the first place. But that's another discussion for another time.
Whether Vasquez averages 9 or 8 or 7 APG, doesnt really matter. What matters most to me is that he's the first main ball-handler we've had in a long time that will be actively looking to get others involved rather than look to score. Reke, IT, Salmons, Thornton, Cousins, Jimmer, Brooks. All "Score first, pass second" players. Just his presence on the floor alone will help get us away from our ISO ball offense the last 5 seasons
Whether Vasquez averages 9 or 8 or 7 APG, doesnt really matter. What matters most to me is that he's the first main ball-handler we've had in a long time that will be actively looking to get others involved rather than look to score. Reke, IT, Salmons, Thornton, Cousins, Jimmer, Brooks. All "Score first, pass second" players. Just his presence on the floor alone will help get us away from our ISO ball offense the last 5 seasons
You use per 36 to show the truth of the matter without minutes obscuring it. people who object to them most strenuously are normally trying to hide something.
Its a longtime thing with the Hornets. Just going back year by year for the last 5, these are the per48 H/R splits of their primary PGs (I'm using per48 here because that's how ESPN has the stats, and I see no point in having to calculate them myself -- same principle as per36:
[table="width: 600"]
[tr]
[td]Year[/td]
[td]Player[/td]
[td]Home Ast/48[/td]
[td]Road Ast/48[/td]
[td]Differential[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2008-09[/td]
[td]Chris Paul[/td]
[td]15.0[/td]
[td]12.7[/td]
[td]+2.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2009-10[/td]
[td]Chris Paul[/td]
[td]13.9[/td]
[td]13.1[/td]
[td]+0.8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2009-10[/td]
[td]Darren Collison[/td]
[td]10.8[/td]
[td]8.8[/td]
[td]+2.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2010-11[/td]
[td]Chris Paul[/td]
[td]14.2[/td]
[td]11.8[/td]
[td]+2.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2011-12[/td]
[td]Jarret Jack[/td]
[td]9.0[/td]
[td]8.9[/td]
[td]+0.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2011-12[/td]
[td]Greivis Vasquez[/td]
[td]10.4[/td]
[td]9.8[/td]
[td]+0.6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2012-13[/td]
[td]Greivis Vasquez[/td]
[td]13.1[/td]
[td]12.1[/td]
[td]+1.0[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
And to preempt any suggestions that's normal, the study was pretty thorough in that regard -- its not, and road team PGs weren't getting the same benefit of the doubt. Probably a major reason why Reke wanted to leave us actually
-- in his 4 years here his H/R per48 ast differentials were -0.5, +0.1, -0.8 +0.1. Over there if Jrue ever suffers an injury (Jrue should average 10apg) Reke should be able to get a least 8apg.
Its a longtime thing with the Hornets. Just going back year by year for the last 5, these are the per48 H/R splits of their primary PGs (I'm using per48 here because that's how ESPN has the stats, and I see no point in having to calculate them myself -- same principle as per36:
[table="width: 600"]
[tr]
[td]Year[/td]
[td]Player[/td]
[td]Home Ast/48[/td]
[td]Road Ast/48[/td]
[td]Differential[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2008-09[/td]
[td]Chris Paul[/td]
[td]15.0[/td]
[td]12.7[/td]
[td]+2.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2009-10[/td]
[td]Chris Paul[/td]
[td]13.9[/td]
[td]13.1[/td]
[td]+0.8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2009-10[/td]
[td]Darren Collison[/td]
[td]10.8[/td]
[td]8.8[/td]
[td]+2.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2010-11[/td]
[td]Chris Paul[/td]
[td]14.2[/td]
[td]11.8[/td]
[td]+2.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2011-12[/td]
[td]Jarret Jack[/td]
[td]9.0[/td]
[td]8.9[/td]
[td]+0.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2011-12[/td]
[td]Greivis Vasquez[/td]
[td]10.4[/td]
[td]9.8[/td]
[td]+0.6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2012-13[/td]
[td]Greivis Vasquez[/td]
[td]13.1[/td]
[td]12.1[/td]
[td]+1.0[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
And to preempt any suggestions that's normal, the study was pretty thorough in that regard -- its not, and road team PGs weren't getting the same benefit of the doubt. Probably a major reason why Reke wanted to leave us actually
-- in his 4 years here his H/R per48 ast differentials were -0.5, +0.1, -0.8 +0.1. Over there if Jrue ever suffers an injury (Jrue should average 10apg) Reke should be able to get a least 8apg.
Last edited:
Not really. The point of the argument isn't to say that he's not a pass first guy or that he isn't a good playmaker. The point is that one should have very different expectations of how a 7apg guy will change the team as opposed to a 9apg guy. 9 apg rightly puts you as one of the best playmakers in the entire league.
K
Don't know why people are so obsessed by a number, seriously Vasquez is a very good passer regardless if his totals are inflated or not, end of the day he's the best PG we have had in ages and I'm glad we got him. If he makes the right plays I don't care what his assist totals are, he will be a solid fit on this team people are just nitpicking cause they so butt hurt over Evans getting traded.
I can't speak for others, but personally I'm really happy to have Vasquez despite being upset that Evans was let go. The point that I feel we are making is that we cannot expect Vasquez to put up those kind of numbers here. Nobody has said he isn't the best PG we've had in years, nobody is saying our ball movement won't improve. What they are saying is don't mistake the guy for the next coming of Steve Nash just because he averaged 9 assists last season. I don't understand why it's ok to be excited about a player but not to be critical of him. And I'm sick and tired of people writing off valid skepticism and criticism without so much as a counter argument, instead equating any analysis of a player whatsoever to being irrelevant because the poster is an Evans supporter. This is a damn sports forum. If you don't want to hear people analysing playrrs, which often includes nitpicking, don't come here. Nobodys stopping anyone from being perfectly happy with every player we have.
K
My point is who cares about assist totals, if Vasquez makes the team better it does not matter how many assists he gets, if he averages 5 assists and helps the team that's a tremendous help. People are placing to much weight on numbers, Vasquez is a good guy and player who will make the team better. Patterson didn't average many assists and the moment he came into games last season the ball movement was so much better, Vasquez will do the same, people need to realize it's about impact on winning not numbers.....
OK help me out here Is part of the claim that the people counting the assists in NOLA are being very generous on what an assist is?
Then the other portion of the claim is that due to running the plays they were asked to run the NOLA PG's had more assists
Is this what is being claimed
Also not that I am skeptical, is there any links to articles where this is pointed out in the media? Or perhaps links to video of the assists that should not be assists? I would love to see this stuff.
Thanks for helping me out,
KB
Is part of the claim that the people counting the assists in NOLA are being very generous on what an assist is?Then the other portion of the claim is that due to running the plays they were asked to run the NOLA PG's had more assists
Is this what is being claimed
Also not that I am skeptical, is there any links to articles where this is pointed out in the media? Or perhaps links to video of the assists that should not be assists? I would love to see this stuff.
Thanks for helping me out,
KB
Last edited:
All true. I think if people weren't doing the homer justification thing this wouldn't even be worthy of any more mention.
Greivez Vasquez very likely had his assist totals artificially raised last year by cheating scorekeepers. Just flat out, the truth. Very likely. Just the way it has long worked down there. Something people should know when trying to assess or use numbers with New Orleans PGs.
However in Vasquez's case last year the inflation does not look to rise to such a level as to essentially overstate the nature of his game, so its not worthy of major talking pointness unless you consider that 9apg mark to be signficiant.
Now, the thing about the "made the right pass/who cares" argument is this: Vasquez's New Orleans' offense was not one of the better ones last year. Nearly identical to ours in percentages, and one of the worst in pts scored (which is likely pace related):
New Orleans FG% .448
Sacramento FG% .447
New Orleans 3pt% .363
Sacramento 3pt% .363
New Orleans Pts/gm 94.1 (25th in NBA)
Sacramento Pts/gm 100.2 (10th in NBA)
So when you say "who cares he made the right pass"...well it comes down to if the numbers aren't legit, and the team numbers weren't sparkling with him at the PG, just how legit is he?? And that's a legit argument. Its not like there is a visible Nash effect. In fact our team last year appeared to get it done just about as well as Vasquez was with his. But of course that's a complex debate with many factors that we could argue about for months -- teammates, offenses, ball dominance and just so on, and before we were doen with the debate the season would be upon us and we would just see.
Greivez Vasquez very likely had his assist totals artificially raised last year by cheating scorekeepers. Just flat out, the truth. Very likely. Just the way it has long worked down there. Something people should know when trying to assess or use numbers with New Orleans PGs.
However in Vasquez's case last year the inflation does not look to rise to such a level as to essentially overstate the nature of his game, so its not worthy of major talking pointness unless you consider that 9apg mark to be signficiant.
Now, the thing about the "made the right pass/who cares" argument is this: Vasquez's New Orleans' offense was not one of the better ones last year. Nearly identical to ours in percentages, and one of the worst in pts scored (which is likely pace related):
New Orleans FG% .448
Sacramento FG% .447
New Orleans 3pt% .363
Sacramento 3pt% .363
New Orleans Pts/gm 94.1 (25th in NBA)
Sacramento Pts/gm 100.2 (10th in NBA)
So when you say "who cares he made the right pass"...well it comes down to if the numbers aren't legit, and the team numbers weren't sparkling with him at the PG, just how legit is he?? And that's a legit argument. Its not like there is a visible Nash effect. In fact our team last year appeared to get it done just about as well as Vasquez was with his. But of course that's a complex debate with many factors that we could argue about for months -- teammates, offenses, ball dominance and just so on, and before we were doen with the debate the season would be upon us and we would just see.