Yahoo rumor: Wolves shopping Jefferson

[beb0p]

That's cool. Some people think JT is gonna be really good someday. I'm not one of them but whatever.

I agree with you in one sense in that Al isn't a superstar. But he is IMO the best low post scorer in the game today. And having a player who can score down low is critical. I don't see how you can judge Jefferson's impact on a team, since he was young on Boston, and now Minny just plain sucks. There's always the argument that he's always been on losing teams and therefore has no impact, but...read the first sentence in this paragraph. He's not a superstar. He's not supposed to turn bad teams into good teams. I bet that he can turn an average/good team into a good/great team though

I don't disagree with you. I am open to having Jefferson I just don't see him as the savior. He will make us a little bit better maybe even good enough as the 7th or 8th seed. But I don't see him ever transforming this team into a great team.

I think that once JT figured it out he also has the potential to turn this team into a 7th or 8th seed team and probably no better. So impact wise, Jefferson and JT is similar but JT's game is more flexible, easier to mesh with new pieces than Big Al. He is also bigger and more athletic than Big Al, and has better defensive upside. So for those reasons, I'd rather stick with JT.

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[bajaden]

I don't disagree with you. I am open to having Jefferson I just don't see him as the savior. He will make us a little bit better maybe even good enough as the 7th or 8th seed. But I don't see him ever transforming this team into a great team.

I think that once JT figured it out he also has the potential to turn this team into a 7th or 8th seed team and probably no better. So impact wise, Jefferson and JT is similar but JT's game is more flexible, easier to mesh with new pieces than Big Al. He is also bigger and more athletic than Big Al, and has better defensive upside. So for those reasons, I'd rather stick with JT.

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I would like to have both Al and JT. I think JT could learn a little bit about post scoring from Al. But I think the main point is that every aquisition shouldn't be looked at from the prespective of whether the player can take us to the promised land. But rather, if said player can make the team better than it was. If aquiring Jefferson can lock up the 7th or 8th seed for us, then thats a good aquisition. It means we still lack all the pieces, but were one step closer.

If were sitting and waiting for the one big guy to come along and transform this team into a championship competitor, we could be waiting for a long time. But if you have a young team thats capable of making the playoffs with players such as Evans, Casspi, Greene, Thompson and Jefferson, you suddenly look a lot more inviting to a top freeagent down the road a bit.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Id give up martin for Al at this point.

We have Garcia coming back soon, he fits the Shooting Guard mold beside Evans better then Martin does.

He can help with the ball handling and playmaking, and is a better defender.

I honestly say go for Al Jefferson.

 

[kupman]

Id give up martin for Al at this point.

We have Garcia coming back soon, he fits the Shooting Guard mold beside Evans better then Martin does.

He can help with the ball handling and playmaking, and is a better defender.

I honestly say go for Al Jefferson.

I would give up Kmart and JT for Al at this point. I think the Wolves would like it too.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I would give up Kmart and JT for Al at this point. I think the Wolves would like it too.

I dunno about both. I think Kmart and filler would be enough.

 

[kupman]

I dunno about both. I think Kmart and filler would be enough.

Kmart + filler would be outstanding for us. I am not sure how the Wolves would feel about getting Kmart in return for one of the better PFs in the game. Maybe they would go for it.

I am just saying that I would go as high as Kmart +JT for Al given that JT would not need to play much if we get 35-40 min/game from Al.

 

[Tetsujin]

Kmart + filler would be outstanding for us. I am not sure how the Wolves would feel about getting Kmart in return for one of the better PFs in the game. Maybe they would go for it.

I am just saying that I would go as high as Kmart +JT for Al given that JT would not need to play much if we get 35-40 min/game from Al.

At the same time, Minni was trying trade Al for Granger straight up. How much better is Granger than Martin? Not much really. I think if we offer K-Mart and a future draft pick (not necessarily next years) there's a good chance they bite.

 

[ParniValjak]

At the same time, Minni was trying trade Al for Granger straight up. How much better is Granger than Martin? Not much really. I think if we offer K-Mart and a future draft pick (not necessarily next years) there's a good chance they bite.

Oh Granger is much better. He is just as good a scorer, better rebounder and certainly a LOT better defender. Granger is a better all around player than Kevin. It will take more than Kevin to get Al.

If Pacers offered us Granger for Kevin straight up we would be all over it before you could blink.

 

[asakkings]

Yea Granger is a much better player than Kevin. But I think a trade for Kmart+JT/Hawes for Jefferson would be worth it.

 

[Tetsujin]

Oh Granger is much better. He is just as good a scorer, better rebounder and certainly a LOT better defender. Granger is a better all around player than Kevin. It will take more than Kevin to get Al.

If Pacers offered us Granger for Kevin straight up we would be all over it before you could blink.

The thing is that Granger also eats up more shot than K-Mart.

If WE traded for him (which I can pretty much guarantee you we won't), our team would probably look worse than it does now.

Minnisota's trade got rejected so for all we know they will settle for less. Perhaps they overestimated Al's market value. That is why I'm thinking htat K-Mart plus a pick could net us Al.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

The thing is that Granger also eats up more shot than K-Mart.

If WE traded for him (which I can pretty much guarantee you we won't), our team would probably look worse than it does now.

Minnisota's trade got rejected so for all we know they will settle for less. Perhaps they overestimated Al's market value. That is why I'm thinking htat K-Mart plus a pick could net us Al.

I dunno if i'd give up this years pick.. thats potentially a 5-10 pick. I'd rather give up one of the bigs and martin for AL.. but I feel like were loosing too much giving up a big aswell as martin.


Maybe we could get away with a future first rounder and Martin? but i dont think the wolves want to wait for a pick, they need players now.

 

[Tetsujin]

I dunno if i'd give up this years pick.. thats potentially a 5-10 pick. I'd rather give up one of the bigs and martin for AL.. but I feel like were loosing too much giving up a big aswell as martin.


Maybe we could get away with a future first rounder and Martin? but i dont think the wolves want to wait for a pick, they need players now.

Yeah sorry for not clarifying. I meant a pick in a couple of years. We'd be fairly stupid to trade this years pick.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Yeah sorry for not clarifying. I meant a pick in a couple of years. We'd be fairly stupid to trade this years pick.

If we did trade a pick, it would probably not be about what year it was, but more about adding declining protections to it.

Something like Minn gets our 1st round pick:

2010 - Lottery protected
2011 - Lottery protected
2012 - Top 10 protected
2013 - Top 5 protected
2013-indefinite - Top 3 protected

 

[bajaden]

I would prefer Martin and a pick, and preferly not this years pick. I'm sure they would love to have Martin, but I'm not sure they would want Thompson, unless they wanted him to play center, which he is not. They would probably prefer Hawes. The reason thier willing to trade Jefferson is that he's not a center. So why would you trade for another player thats not a center. But stranger things have happened.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I would prefer Martin and a pick, and preferly not this years pick. I'm sure they would love to have Martin, but I'm not sure they would want Thompson, unless they wanted him to play center, which he is not. They would probably prefer Hawes. The reason thier willing to trade Jefferson is that he's not a center. So why would you trade for another player thats not a center. But stranger things have happened.

we're talking about the team that drafted three pg's here.
Its possible their GM eats soup with a fork so you never know!

 

[JoMama]

On the other hand good rebounding big men trump non-anything but score SGs, and good post play has always been a component of top teams. Throw in our bevy of shooting/contributing little players (Cisco, Beno, Donte, Casspi at the very least, Noc, Udoka and Sergio on many nights), and this is fairly clear. Jefferson is not my first choice, but he fits basically all of the markers except defense. And you just don't get many chances to nab a young big who can put up 20-10 in this league. You pass on Jefferson waiting for...who exactly? Hakeem to drop down form the sky? You might get a legitimate shot at one of these guys once or twice in a decade. Even Kobe never won without Shaq or Pau. Wade won his title with Shaq as well.

A couple of years back before the Lakers got him there were some suggestions on here that we trade Kevin to get Pau (of course as it turns out all it would have taken was some belly button lint and a 2027 2nd rounder). I was only lukewarm to the idea. Viewed them as roughly equivalent players, wth Pau getting the edge for being a big and playing the post. Both were soft. And swapping one for the other wasn't going to magically lift us anywhere. But times have changed, dramatically. Now if that same trade was avaialble, I'm all over it, for exactly the reasons you're seeing down in L.A. with the Kobe/Pau pairing. Now we have the stud perimeter guy. If there is a chance to create the classic inside/outside pairing that has won in the NBA pretty much as long as there has been an NBA, you go do it. Bosh is my #1 choice. But if he's not available Jefferson is right there as a very acceptable alternative. Superstar little. 20-10 big. Bunch of shooters and scrappers at the 2/3. Its nearly perfect. Just need a defensive minded 5 and you're ready.

These are Jefferson's numbers last season before the injury:
23.1pts (.497 FG% .000 3pt% .738 FT%) 11.0reb 1.6ast 0.8stl 1.7blk 1.8TO

Who does that? He might not be all the way back to that yet, but he's getting stronger every month. In December it was 18.7 and 10.3, this month so far its 20.3 and 10.8. Legitimately one of the league's 4 or 5 20-10 guys. And if you can get him for nothing much more than Kevin, you are basically adding a 20-10 guy, for free, to the team we've been watching these last few months. Keeping everything that has had us right in the running with the league's better teams, and then dropping a 20-10 guy in on top of it? Yes please.

Nicely stated. I'm all in on this one. Let's close the deal!

 

[upinsmoke]

Jefferson would be nice HOWEVER big heavy guys are always hurt. Bosh would make more sense playing in front of JT or even side by side.

 

[ParniValjak]

Jefferson would be nice HOWEVER big heavy guys are always hurt. Bosh would make more sense playing in front of JT or even side by side.

If you bring in Bosh or Jefferson or you decided that JT is your PF then you need to pair then with a defensive, shotblocking 5. None of this JT/Bosh or JT/Jefferson pairing because that gets you nowhere.

Bring in Bosh or Jefferson (and burn JT if we have to get them) and look for that defensively oriented 5 to set your front court. There seem to be a few out there that might be available in Dalembert, Okafor (??), Gortat, Biendris (???) etc.

For Bosh or Al thing to work you need a "get out of the way, don't care baout scoring, all I care about is defence" center next to them.

 

[upinsmoke]

I would be against Dalembert but its clear there is a problem defending our paint. David Lee would be a solid pick up with or without signing Bosh.

PPG 19.1 RPG 11.20 APG 3.4

It in no means would mean problems solved but a step in the right direction.

 

[ParniValjak]

I would be against Dalembert but its clear there is a problem defending our paint. David Lee would be a solid pick up with or without signing Bosh.

PPG 19.1 RPG 11.20 APG 3.4

It in no means would mean problems solved but a step in the right direction.

David Lee is no where near we good as his stats suggest. His stats are bloated due to the offensive system the Knicks have. He is a liability defensively and is undersized. I would not be interested in Lee one bit.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Jefferson would be nice HOWEVER big heavy guys are always hurt. Bosh would make more sense playing in front of JT or even side by side.

Based on what? Shaq had a farily healthy career. Vlade was roughly as bulky as Jefferson and stayed healthy. Rasheed and Ben Wallace were just fine. I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you are going to throw out a generalized statement like that I would like to know your rationale.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I would be against Dalembert but its clear there is a problem defending our paint. David Lee would be a solid pick up with or without signing Bosh.

PPG 19.1 RPG 11.20 APG 3.4

It in no means would mean problems solved but a step in the right direction.

I'm also anti-Lee at this point. Aside from his stats being inflated, he has no post game. He can score off of feeds, put backs and some jumpers created by others. However, we really need to pair Reke with a big who can create shots inside. Jefferson would fit the bill.

Lee is a more experienced version of JT. Not bad, but not what we need right now. Especially since he will be a free agent and will command some solid cash.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

Kmart and Hawes for Al, Kenny Thomas for Dalembert (as was rumored earlier this year) and you're more or less set..

PG - Evans/Beno/Sergio
SG - Donte/Cisco/Omri
SF - Casspi/Cisco/Donte
PF - Jefferson/Thompson/Brockman
C - Dalembert/Thompson

you have you're superstar inside/out game in tyreke and big al, scrappers in casspi, cisco, and thompson, shooting from donte, casspi, cisco.. Interior D/shotblocker in Dalembert (who has been accused of a low bball iq but in this role all we need him to do is what he does best, also if he doesnt work out then he expires after next year), and solid to good D from just about everyone else.. i also think thompson fits the backup pf role perfectly

 

[bajaden]

we're talking about the team that drafted three pg's here.
Its possible their GM eats soup with a fork so you never know!

Ha ha, good point there..

 

[upinsmoke]

Based on what? Shaq had a farily healthy career. Vlade was roughly as bulky as Jefferson and stayed healthy. Rasheed and Ben Wallace were just fine. I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you are going to throw out a generalized statement like that I would like to know your rationale.

You need me to give you examples of big guys being injury prone?

 

[Bricklayer]

You need me to give you examples of big guys being injury prone?

You can find examples of little guys being injury prone too. And then you can find examples of big guys who never ever got hurt (ala the Malones, Karl and Moses). The only place where it becomes a clear trend is with the megas -- the 7'3"+ types. And there have been relatively few of them.

As an aside, given all the jewelery that bedecks Shaq's hand, I'll take an injury prone behemoth who beats people into submission on his way to multiple titles rather than a scrawny weenie who sits home every June any day.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

You can find examples of little guys being injury prone too. And then you can find examples of big guys who never ever got hurt (ala the Malones, Karl and Moses). The only place where it becomes a clear trend is with the megas -- the 7'3"+ types. And there have been relatively few of them.

As an aside, given all the jewelery that bedecks Shaq's hand, I'll take an injury prone behemoth who beats people into submission on his way to multiple titles rather than a scrawny weenie who sits home every June any day.

Thanks Brick, you beat me to it. Well said.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Kmart and Hawes for Al, Kenny Thomas for Dalembert (as was rumored earlier this year) and you're more or less set..

PG - Evans/Beno/Sergio
SG - Donte/Cisco/Omri
SF - Casspi/Cisco/Donte
PF - Jefferson/Thompson/Brockman
C - Dalembert/Thompson

you have you're superstar inside/out game in tyreke and big al, scrappers in casspi, cisco, and thompson, shooting from donte, casspi, cisco.. Interior D/shotblocker in Dalembert (who has been accused of a low bball iq but in this role all we need him to do is what he does best, also if he doesnt work out then he expires after next year), and solid to good D from just about everyone else.. i also think thompson fits the backup pf role perfectly

It would be an interesting team. The only thing that would scare me would be a very clogged key, since AJ and SD are not really guys who can step out and hit the 15-18 footer.

 

[One and Done]

Kmart and Hawes for Al, Kenny Thomas for Dalembert (as was rumored earlier this year) and you're more or less set..

PG - Evans/Beno/Sergio
SG - Donte/Cisco/Omri
SF - Casspi/Cisco/Donte
PF - Jefferson/Thompson/Brockman
C - Dalembert/Thompson

That's one heck of a frontcourt!

But as always, a few questions/objections: what would be the effect on Thompson's play, followed by the lack of range by the two starters (as mentioned), Jefferson's health, and most notably, chemistry.

Regarding the latter, I think having these two as starters will magnify the King's needs for assists - who's going to do the passing here? Evans ain't no Chris Paul - Donte and Casspi aren't unselfish but they're not great creators (yet).

Otherwise, if that worked, it'd be quite the frontcourt rotation. Jefferson for a low post threat, Dalembert for defense and shotblocking, and Thompson for hustle and offensive versatility. Throw in the likely PF lottery pick, and holy frontcourt batman...

 

[Sptsjunkie]

That's one heck of a frontcourt!

But as always, a few questions/objections: what would be the effect on Thompson's play, followed by the lack of range by the two starters (as mentioned), Jefferson's health, and most notably, chemistry.

Regarding the latter, I think having these two as starters will magnify the King's needs for assists - who's going to do the passing here? Evans ain't no Chris Paul - Donte and Casspi aren't unselfish but they're not great creators (yet).

Otherwise, if that worked, it'd be quite the frontcourt rotation. Jefferson for a low post threat, Dalembert for defense and shotblocking, and Thompson for hustle and offensive versatility. Throw in the likely PF lottery pick, and holy frontcourt batman...

If we were to do the trades that he mentioned, I think we would be better off including JT in them than Hawes. Ironically, if we got AJ and Dalembert, Hawes would fit into the 3 man rotation nicely with his passing, jumper and post moves. If he puts on some bulk and starts playing acceptable D over the next couple of seasons, you could probably start him with AJ and let Dalembert be our defensive big off the bench.