Would you do this deal?
- Thread starter Smills91
- Start date
Dime Dropper
All-Star
No.
Nighthawk1
Starter
I voted "NO" because I think the value is pretty high to give for Bosh whom is a great player no doubt. Giving up two basic unknowns in how they'll develop for a perennial All-Star, Gold Medalist, pretty close to a career 20/10 guy. I think it would depend on where our '09 draft pick lands. If it's #1, I'd probably prefer to take Griffin, but if we don't have a shot at him I'd probably change my vote to 'yes'.
My inclination would be "no". Still (even hypothetically), this is not the sort of thing we would do until we knew where we would be picking and what players we could expect to draft.
My concern with Bosh is that he hasn't been able to bring Toronto much success. I'm not sure that our roster currently (without JT and KT) is any better than Toronto's roster currently (without Bosh). It's not that he isn't good, but it's tough to swallow committing 6+ years at $16M+ per to a guy that can't take the franchise on his back. If you don't like the looks of th draft pick, maybe it's a chance you take, but not before that.
My concern with Bosh is that he hasn't been able to bring Toronto much success. I'm not sure that our roster currently (without JT and KT) is any better than Toronto's roster currently (without Bosh). It's not that he isn't good, but it's tough to swallow committing 6+ years at $16M+ per to a guy that can't take the franchise on his back. If you don't like the looks of th draft pick, maybe it's a chance you take, but not before that.
I'm also opposed to the idea. My thoughts are this. I am a VERY big Bosh fan, but I would only give up ONE of our top 4-5 assets of Martin, Thompson, Hawes, 2009 lotto pick, 2010 pick, (however, Martin for Bosh straight up with little to nothing else involved).
I'd give up 1-2 of our 2nd tiered pieces with one of our top assets: Cisco, Greene, Houston pick, Nocioni.
And I'd use Thomas and/or Beno as salary filler to negotiate it.
So that'd give them a ball park of what to expect to receive in return.
Martin
or
1 of Thompson, Hawes, 2009 pick, 2010 pick
1-2 of Cisco, Greene, Nocioni, Houston pick
Beno and/or Thomas
I think that'd be a pretty competitive offer for Bosh
I'd give up 1-2 of our 2nd tiered pieces with one of our top assets: Cisco, Greene, Houston pick, Nocioni.
And I'd use Thomas and/or Beno as salary filler to negotiate it.
So that'd give them a ball park of what to expect to receive in return.
Martin
or
1 of Thompson, Hawes, 2009 pick, 2010 pick
1-2 of Cisco, Greene, Nocioni, Houston pick
Beno and/or Thomas
I think that'd be a pretty competitive offer for Bosh
ParniValjak
All-Star
Absolutlt I would.
The reasoning is this. Chris Bosh is a perennial All-Star. One of the best PFs in the game and he is young. Very young.
Thompson will never be the player Bosh is and I am not convinced that Griffin has the polish to reach the level that Bosh has.
People the whole point of bottoming out is to get a player like Bosh or better. When you have a chance to get that calibre of player, you go for it. He is yet to hit his peak and he is one of the best PFs in the game. No ifs or buts about it. I would have considered Thompson and our pick this year for Amare and Bosh is a more complete player that Amare so yes please for me.
The reasoning is this. Chris Bosh is a perennial All-Star. One of the best PFs in the game and he is young. Very young.
Thompson will never be the player Bosh is and I am not convinced that Griffin has the polish to reach the level that Bosh has.
People the whole point of bottoming out is to get a player like Bosh or better. When you have a chance to get that calibre of player, you go for it. He is yet to hit his peak and he is one of the best PFs in the game. No ifs or buts about it. I would have considered Thompson and our pick this year for Amare and Bosh is a more complete player that Amare so yes please for me.
TaxMan
Starter
I completely agree. Bosh is a known commodity and he has not even entered his prime. Is he a mega-star? Probably not, but he's the next level down. Not sure we can say Thompson is a lock to be anything other than a good NBA power forward (that doesn't mean he can't be great, but poll anyone outside of sac and I doubt he would be listed as a potential all star.) Giving up the potential #1 pick would be dangerous, but bosh could accelerate the rebuilding process significantly.
Chris Bosh --------24yo
Kevin Martin ------26yo
Francisco Garcia --27yo
Dante Green ------21yo
Spencer Hawes ---20yo
+Houston's pick
Thats a pretty decent young core right there...
I like JT, but to be honest, I'm all for this trade.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Probably not, but you make that 2009 pick our 2010 pick instead and I would do it. In fact I;d give them 2010 and 2012 to do it. Or Houston;s pick and the 2010. Just not a potential #1 overall.
ParniValjak
All-Star
And if that potential #1 pick turned into a pick 4 or 5 would you do it?!
It might be a risk but how big a risk it is depends on whether you think you can get someone that can be as good as Chris Bosh. I am by no means an expert but Griffin (regarded as the lock for #1 pick) to be doesn't appear to have a ceiling as high as Bosh's.
Nighthawk1
Starter
It seems like most of us are in agreement... The 09 1st + JT is too much, even for Bosh who trust me I'd love to have also... I think Brick came up with a solid idea, change the 09 1st to a 2010 1st and I'd be pretty ok with that deal... Even Smill's deals I'd accept although I'd probably take out the Hawes option...
Kev.in
Starter
Better value, but maybe not better talent. JT is basically a throw-in at this point when you compare to Bosh's ability to have a monster game against virtually any opponent.
I'm not a big Bosh fan, but I would take him if it was for less than 6 years and definitely not for a max contract. He's not a great player and I think you can see the result of over-valuing a player on his level and putting too much expectations on him, just look at his frontcourt partner Jermaine O'Neal. I think those two have so much in common. I think that anyone who would sign Bosh for a 6 year contract is taking on a big risk.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Why do people have this phobia about givng player like Bosh and Amare max deals.
Here are some facts, in today's day and age, there are max players and there wouldn't be a team out there that wouldn't offer them the max $$$ for max years. None!
Players like Amare and Bosh are not in the same class as LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Howard.... but they are the next level down. However, they are still max players. Always will be.
People go on about JT but as much as I like the kid, he will never be a perennial all-star like Bosh. Bosh, while he has some flaws, is the type of player that you can build around.
The whole point of bottoming out and rebuilding is to get a player of Bosh's calibre or better. You are not going to get better than Bosh in this year's draft. He is still only 24, with a lot of improvement left in his game. A max deal would take him to 31 when his contract is up. Thats is not old for a start player.
Don't get me wrong, I would rather have LeBron or Wade but fact is Bosh already is one of the best PFs in the game, a perennial all-star and all by the age of 24. Thats only 2 years older than JT.
I like Brick's idea more about keeping this years pick and giving then next years and this years houston pick but c'mon, Bosh is a max type player and I am sure everyone here who is against it would be all for it if Bosh was a King.
Lets reverse the roles here, if Bosh was a King and Toronto came with the offer of JT/1st pick and Kenny Thomas would you take that deal? I sure as hell wouldn't.
kingsnation
All-Star
There aren't many players worth 6 year contracts in the NBA..
Off the top of my head, this is my list:
Lebron
Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Dwight Howard
Chris Paul (possibly)
Bosh is no where near this list, IMHO.
beb0p
Starter
The thing is, there's no way the Raptors will settle for anything less than the 2009 pick if they're giving up Bosh; and they probably won't consider a trade unless that pick is top two.
Btw, to some of the fans here, we shouldn't sell ourselves short. Yes, this is a weak draft, but a top pick is still worth a whole lot. Just keep in mind who Elton Brand was traded for in his prime year with the Bulls:
jalfa
Starter
This was a bit before my time, but I think that Chandler was quite highly regarded back then and this trade still stands as one of the worst trades in history. So, I would be very cautious about putting any hope into this sort of thing occuring again. Especially when dealing with Colangelo, who, despite some very questionable trades in the last few years, is not stupid.
Not anymore than Griffin, Rubio, Harden IMO.
Aenadin
Starter
comparing bosh and thompson's rookie years... and the fact that JT didnt start most of our games..
id say give him time i wouldnt trade a guy like JT for Bosh anytime soon pretty much their rookie years are about equal and JT got a lower draft position due to his school but his talents are as we know are for real...
if he went to the big bball schools im pretty sure he would have been at the top 10 picks but he chose to be loyal to little rider.. which speaks a lot to me the guy isnt just a hard worker but a damn loyal one too i say keep him..
i hate to say this but
would a trade that involves hawes and us getting Bj mullens be an upgrade in the C position?
id say give him time i wouldnt trade a guy like JT for Bosh anytime soon pretty much their rookie years are about equal and JT got a lower draft position due to his school but his talents are as we know are for real...
if he went to the big bball schools im pretty sure he would have been at the top 10 picks but he chose to be loyal to little rider.. which speaks a lot to me the guy isnt just a hard worker but a damn loyal one too i say keep him..
i hate to say this but
would a trade that involves hawes and us getting Bj mullens be an upgrade in the C position?
Last edited:
Absolutely not.
TaxMan
Starter
I believe Bosh had only one year of college ball when entering the draft. JT is only 2 years younger than Bosh right now! The fact that a 19 year old Bosh had similar rookie stats as a 22 year old JT really is meaningless.
I would LOVE to see JT blossom into a perennial all-star; but the reality suggests he will not. I understand that as fans we get attached to the local players, but the inflating of talent in this case is a bit much. It's turning out that JT was drafted just about where he should have been last year - late lottery pick (check back in 2 years and that conclusion may change.) He could end up being a very solid player for a very long time for the Kings; however, he's not really a game changer. Not sure Bosh is technically a game changer either, but he's a lot closer.
I can see the apprehension about including this year's pick (if it were to be #1), but lets not get carried away with JT's relative worth. Put him on the Bucks and watch us all scramble to figure out who he is.
beb0p
Starter
That was a weak draft at the top; Thabeet of today woud have been the undisputed #1 pick if he had been in the 2001 draft.
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