Win or Lose?

K

K F Jay

G-League
#1
#1
Pick one out of the five choices.

1 Lose? Are you even a Kings Fan? Who would want their team to Lose? Lol at this thread.

2 I want them to play competitive but Lose for a possible higher draft pick.

3 I want to Win! Who cares about getting a possible higher draft pick!

4 Depends if GP gets the player(s) I want/we need via trade deadline then Win. If he does'nt get the player(s) I want/we need I want them to play competitive but Lose for a possible higher draft pick.

5 Other; Please explain?
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#3
#3
I want them to play competitive, win or lose. I'm looking for chemistry, cohesion, growth and an identity. What we were seeing in November and December.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#5
#5
i would want the team to compete on a daily basis, win or lose but looking at their schedule for february we play 4 teams that are under .500. the pistons (17-32) twice, knicks (19-29), warriors (13-35) and clippers (21-28) twice. if we win those games and lose to the remaining teams that are over .500 it wont look that bad but then again, we could come out and lose each one of those games and beat the suns twice. like how we beat denver in january. you never know with this team anymore.

i was looking over our schedule, the kings only won 2 games in january last year as well; they won 3 games in february. wow... i wouldnt be surprised if the same thing happened this month. it sucks but there are 6 very winnable games against those 4 sub .500 teams. if we cant pull this off we need to make a major move. we play the pistons, knicks and warriors before the trade deadline. the warriors the day before 2/17, this should be interesting. we won only 3 games last season in the new year before the trade deadline, 2 in january and 1 in february and we ended up trading miller and salmons. who will be moved this time? we really arent playing any better, we were lucky to be able to beat a bunch of sub .500 teams at home before they figured us out.
 
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LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#6
#6
Look--this is rediculous. At this point, of course you want the team to win. Last year, you were willing to lose if that meant playing the kids over the veterans like Miller and Salmons that had no part in our future plans. Now, as long as Reke, Casspi, Thompson, Hawes, and Greene are playing major minutes you play to win. If you lose, at least there's the consolation prize of a high draft pick, but you don't try to lose by any means.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#7
#7
LPKingsFan said:
Look--this is rediculous. At this point, of course you want the team to win. Last year, you were willing to lose if that meant playing the kids over the veterans like Miller and Salmons that had no part in our future plans. Now, as long as Reke, Casspi, Thompson, Hawes, and Greene are playing major minutes you play to win. If you lose, at least there's the consolation prize of a high draft pick, but you don't try to lose by any means.
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but at what expense? if we continue to suck we will never win any games because we are always acquiring new young players that require time to develop. at what point do you decide to find a few vets to balance out the roster?

this team is even more inexperienced than last years team, we lost miller, salmons and bobby only to add 3 rookies, sergio and a new coach. we're even greener than last years team. we will have to wait 2-3 for these current players to develop but by then we will have 3-4 more young players...

the hawks are a perfect example of what we're going through... they had all of that young talent and couldnt win anything. they needed vets to balance their roster, johnson and bibby had been on winning teams before. who will be the vets that come in to put this team over the top? it cant be a guard... so which big do we give up? im guessing thompson...
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#8
#8
Yeah, when we had no star players, and no identity you could justify the tanking. With Evans, Casspi, Greene, Thompson, and Hawes all regular parts of the rotation of course you want the team to win. I hope they win every game. I hope they blow everyone out by 20 points. If they don't though we get to add another piece in the draft, look at the free agents, and come back improved next season. It's really win-win at this point. We're finally building a team with young players again instead of slotting in veterans for a year or two and hoping it works out.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#9
#9
thats fine but where do we go from there? we can add a rookie only so many times before people get tired of waiting. id rather this team end up somewhere near .500, miss the playoffs and build from there. at least then we know that the team isnt that far away from winning some serious games. with the way that this team is playing now we are no better off now than we were last year at the same time.
 
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pshn80

Starter
#11
#11
AriesMar27 said:
but at what expense? if we continue to suck we will never win any games because we are always acquiring new young players that require time to develop. at what point do you decide to find a few vets to balance out the roster?
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You've got a very good point. We have only two players that would start on another NBA team right now. We need two more right now to just be consistently competive for whole games. If we had three instead of two more we would be a playoff team.

This is an over simplification, I know, but the point for me is that we really need one more of that quality so that we can charge money at Arco. In that sense if we got rid of or traded Martin, we would have to get back two starters to come to the level I believe we should shoot for right now.

Of our other 13 players we have ample talent to fill the six through nine positions with quality. It's the starters we don't have and the present group won't fill those spots in the forseeable future, maybe in the long run.

So, with the present line up, add a quality starter which nine times out of ten is a veteran, now. Continue the rest of the building as we move forward and get the opportunites.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#12
#12
the only 2 starting caliber players on this team are evans and martin, we need a veteran big at pf... hawes would be more serviceable starting at center next to a real pf than thompson would be with a vet center...
 
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pshn80

Starter
#13
#13
AriesMar27 said:
the only 2 starting caliber players on this team are evans and martin, we need a veteran big at pf... hawes would be more serviceable starting at center next to a real pf than thompson would be with a vet center...
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Again I agree. However, if we got one more quality starter at any of the three other positions it would help immensely. Give me such quality at center, PF or small forward and I'll take that and enjoy the results.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#14
#14
i dont know how another sf would help us unless its carmelo or lebron... we really dont need anyone at that position. we need a stud pf like amare or jefferson and a pg that can distribute the ball and stretch the floor for tyreke... since he is our franchise player going forward.

tyreke cant play a 2-man game with martin, they both want to do the same thing. he needs a pf to play pick and roll with, thompson isnt that player. but since hawes is a good shooter he would help spread the floor for tyreke and whatever post player we pick up. we need that 2nd player to put next to evans that compliments what he brings to the table.

i really dont know what to say about the defense, we have a team full of bad defenders... greene is probably the best defender on the team and that is sad.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#15
#15
AriesMar27 said:
thats fine but where do we go from there? we can add a rookie only so many times before people get tired of waiting. id rather this team end up somewhere near .500, miss the playoffs and build from there. at least then we know that the team isnt that far away from winning some serious games. with the way that this team is playing now we are no better off now than we were last year at the same time.
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We are MUCH better off this year than this time last year. I know its hard for you to admit this but this year we have a franchise player to build around. That is a key and MASSIVE difference.

Last year we were losing with Miller, Salmons, Moore and Jackson playing some key minutes. Last year we had no upside. We had Hawes and Thompson as our bright points and a questionable prospect in Greene and nothing else.

This year we have 1 win away from matching that 17 win total from last year BUT we are doing it with kids running the show. That in itself is a HUGE plus with a BIG upside. These kids WILL get better. Tyreke, Casspi, Greene, Hawes, Thompson...all have a scope for big improvements (some more than others). Based purely on that we are MILES ahead of where we were last year even though the win-loss column might not show it.

Point is last year we were losing with old, washed up vets. This year we are losing with young kids with great upside. That is a BIG, BIG difference.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#16
#16
we really werent that much worse if at all last year, we had no coach, martin missed 30 something games, we traded our only veteran players for crap and beno was our starting pg...

people forget how bad we were AFTER the trade... we won like 8 games with a healthy roster... most around here are also afraid to admit how easy our schedule was in the beginning... all of those bad teams at home, no one knew how good evans was going to be so every team was surprised and all of them beat us the 2nd time around except for denver who didnt have carmelo the 2nd game.

no one expected us to win any games after theus was fired and we made that stupid trade, this year we dont have that excuse and we are still losing the exact same way. how many close games did we lose last year? we werent getting blown out every night, we werent like the nets this season. the spurs game is a perfect example of it, that game was lost, the score really doesnt tell the whole story, there was nothing that this team couldve done in the last 2 minutes to win that game. it was up to the spurs to mess up and lose their lead. it wasnt the kings taking the game from them.
 
xrzn

xrzn

Starter
#17
#17
Kings are 16-32 with 34 games remaining in the season. Using Hollinger's playoff odds, it seems like Spurs get in with 46 wins.

So let's say if Kings somehow win 46 games, they make the playoffs. That means out of the 34 games, Kings would need to go 30-4 from here on out to get to 46 wins. Not to mention the Kings would need a lot of help getting other team(s) to implode. Realistically speaking, this won't happen.

Now, reasons to win games right now are:

1) Experience
2) Build chemistry
3) Keep up team morale

These are essential in the development the young guys, but we have no idea what the roster is going to look like come next year, so building chemistry now might be pointless.

Now, what can losing accomplish? Better odds at getting a higher pick. If the Kings aren't going to make a move for a Bosh or a Jefferson or whatever, they need to get the best chance at drafting the best big available to team with Reke, Casspi, Donte, and whoever else is going to stay. Getting vets shouldn't be too difficult to fill in spots that have certain roles (spot up shooter, scrappy defender, etc).

I can't say I want the Kings to lose, but if they do, I don't get upset because they're pretty much playing for next season at this point anyways. Unless somehow they go 30-4 and possibly get the 8th seed to play the fakers (imagine that series), then losing isn't all that bad.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#18
#18
Effectively we're half-way through our first season with a rebuilt roster and we've already got almost as many wins as we had all last season. You're right that we're still going to need more pieces in the future but are you really that impatient that you need this team to add a veteran now and contend for something now? If we can add a long-term big man that someone else is unloading without losing a key piece then sure, you do it. That's still moving forward. But by no means are we ready to start filling in role-players as if this is a finished roster that needs a few tweaks. I really don't think we're there yet. Yes Thompson has been terrible lately and Hawes has been his usual self, but they could still be our starting front court of the future with a few more years experience behind them.

The team is fun to watch, they're putting a scare into some pretty good teams. People are starting to get excited about having these players in Kings' uniforms for a long time. Evans is getting legitimate consideration as an All-Star in his rookie season. Casspi and Brockman have outplayed pretty much everyone's expectations. Greene is starting to become a legitimate player. There's so much to be excited about as a fan of this team. If we're not good enough to win this year, at least the losing doesn't sting like it used to. And if our young guys play us into another high lottery pick with a lot of promising players coming down the pipe this season, we're going to be a scary good team as soon as next season. Like what Oklahoma City is doing this year. It's not all that bad. :)
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#20
#20
the thunder are a bad example... durant is destroying everybody right now, he's playing like he did in college... having games that are like 30/11... hes had what 25 consectutive games with 25 points or more... and now he's actually using his length to rebound the ball. he's amazing, we dont have a player on our team thats as good as durant, westbrook has played out of his mind as well...

before the season started you could argue that we had a better team on paper, but the minute that the season started it was obvious that durant alone makes that team light years ahead of ours.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#22
#22
The important thing, now that we have a nice core of 1st and 2nd year players, is making sure they don't get comfortable with losing. Except for Donte and maybe JT or Hawes I don't really care if anyone on the 17 win team is on this team in 2-3 years. I'd like to see how Cisco works in a lineup with Donte and Evans, but that's about it.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#23
#23
There will actually come a point here, as there does in any lost season, when losses > wins. If we're going to finish in the bottom 10 anyway, finishing #5 rather than #7 could have a major impact on our future in a draft with so many bigs coming out. But we're not there yet, and the reason, teh ONLY reason, we're not there yet, is that we already have a pack of very promising youngsters, including a guy who might well be a Top 10 player in the entire league in a couple of years. Once you've alreayd got that, you don't begrudge them wins if they are able to come up with them, and the last thing you want is for them to get beaten down and turn into the spiritless vets we've had draining this franchise of life for years.

Last year at this time, I was already calling for the tank, and got the Natt which was just as good (maybe even better). And it worked. I understand the strategy, have argued for it for years, but there comes a point when you are on the otherside of the bounce and headed back up, and you don't scuttle that to dive back down again. I certainly won't cry in my milk if we can maneuver ourselves into the top 5-7 picks. Could be huge for us. But I'm also in no way shape or form going to be upset if we win a few games, just so long as its Reke, Donte, Omri, JT, Hawes etc. who are doing it. If Reke gets hurt for the season tommorow, I change my tune. As long as he is here and the future is going to be Reke leading the team back into the light, then go for it kid.
 
NewArena

NewArena

All-Star
#24
#24
AriesMar27 said:
the thunder are a bad example... durant is destroying everybody right now, he's playing like he did in college... having games that are like 30/11... hes had what 25 consectutive games with 25 points or more... and now he's actually using his length to rebound the ball. he's amazing, we dont have a player on our team thats as good as durant, westbrook has played out of his mind as well...

before the season started you could argue that we had a better team on paper, but the minute that the season started it was obvious that durant alone makes that team light years ahead of ours.
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Light years ahead? Maybe a year ahead...sure. But you're going a bit far.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#26
#26
AriesMar27 said:
the thunder are a bad example... durant is destroying everybody right now, he's playing like he did in college... having games that are like 30/11... hes had what 25 consectutive games with 25 points or more... and now he's actually using his length to rebound the ball. he's amazing, we dont have a player on our team thats as good as durant, westbrook has played out of his mind as well...

before the season started you could argue that we had a better team on paper, but the minute that the season started it was obvious that durant alone makes that team light years ahead of ours.
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Reke is better so far in his rookie season than Durant was. Significantly better even. No we don't have a Westbrook yet to play sidekick, but we have Omri and Donte who at least have Jeff Green/James Harden potential and if we get that #2 guy in the draft this year than we're just as stacked as Oklahoma City is. That's why I said we could be that good as early as next year if we get another stud in the draft. And if we end up picking top 5, there's a lot of potential studs that are going to be there.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#27
#27
not really, durant is a totally different type of beast... no... evans is in that rose level of star. granted rose is now an all-star but he isnt durant. no.... no....

durant is destined to become the player that mcgrady couldnt be due to injuries, durant is that player. like how lebron is that player.... durant is that player. evans is not that player... not on that level.... i know its unfair to label player so early in their careers but to say that evans will be at that top tier, is laughable... only 3-4 players get to be in that tier at one time... evans could be tier 2, i have no problem saying that. he is a good player and he has room to grow. durant is a tier 1 level player... he is that franchise. period... no one goes to a thunder game to see jeff green. or westbrook... just like people dont go to cavs games to see daniel gibson and people dont go to laker games to see farmar or walton... evans is not that player yet, if ever... to be perfectly honest....
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#28
#28
AriesMar27 said:
not really, durant is a totally different type of beast... no... evans is in that rose level of star. granted rose is now an all-star but he isnt durant. no.... no....

durant is destined to become the player that mcgrady couldnt be due to injuries, durant is that player. like how lebron is that player.... durant is that player. evans is not that player... not on that level.... i know its unfair to label player so early in their careers but to say that evans will be at that top tier, is laughable... only 3-4 players get to be in that tier at one time... evans could be tier 2, i have no problem saying that. he is a good player and he has room to grow. durant is a tier 1 level player... he is that franchise. period... no one goes to a thunder game to see jeff green. or westbrook... just like people dont go to cavs games to see daniel gibson and people dont go to laker games to see farmar or walton... evans is not that player yet, if ever... to be perfectly honest....
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I think its way to early to say Evans can't be a franchise player the ones you mention. Anyway, I wouldn't expect you to have an unbiased opinion in this regard.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#29
#29
kennadog said:
I think its way to early to say Evans can't be a franchise player the ones you mention. Anyway, I wouldn't expect you to have an unbiased opinion in this regard.
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very true, thats why i said that i hate to make that assumption on how good he can be so early. im fully aware of the fact that tyreke is a good player, its just a position thing for me.... i dont know if he'll become a top tier player, he could or he may not. but i am sure of the position part, that i know for sure....:cool:
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#30
#30
AriesMar27 said:
i dont know how another sf would help us unless its carmelo or lebron... we really dont need anyone at that position. we need a stud pf like amare or jefferson and a pg that can distribute the ball and stretch the floor for tyreke... since he is our franchise player going forward.

tyreke cant play a 2-man game with martin, they both want to do the same thing. he needs a pf to play pick and roll with, thompson isnt that player. but since hawes is a good shooter he would help spread the floor for tyreke and whatever post player we pick up. we need that 2nd player to put next to evans that compliments what he brings to the table.

i really dont know what to say about the defense, we have a team full of bad defenders... greene is probably the best defender on the team and that is sad.
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Greene is the best defender? Was that supposed to have a ;) after it?
 
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