Willie Cauley-Stein: the 2018-19 Season watch

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sergmatt

Bench
#421
#421
It's not about what he does tonight it's about consistency. It's easy to rebound (literally and figuratively) for one game after he takes a bunch of heat for his comments.

I think most likely Willie will have a great game tonight because he'll be temporarily motivated after what just happened. The real question is what does he do the following game and the game after that? After his comments are forgotten a week from now that's when you find out the truth.
 
K

kingsfan101

Starter
#422
#422
Sac.1989 said:
Time to start planning for the future.

Willie should be available via trade and we should move him given we wont be looking to resign him.
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Boy, this is a tough one.

The team has genuine aspirations of making the playoffs, and Willie is a central part of that. I also would like to see him make the playoffs with the team that drafted him.

That said, his statements scare me. Is it just an immature statement, or a reflection of his mentality? Will he play hard once he gets paid, or will we see inconsistent attitude from him?

He's an RFA who will attract interest in an year when over half the league will have significant cap space chasing few quality FAs. We risk overpaying for him, or losing him for nothing. That said, given his RFA status, we're unlikely to get much for him, and the trade will hurt us in the short term, impacting our PO chances. Seems like a lose-lose scenario.
 
N

Nokidding

Bench
#423
#423
Does WCS skill-set alone even make him a 15+ million dollar player? (regardless of his effort) I know a ton of awful players @C have got massive deal e.g Bismack/Maheim/Mozgov/Noah (declining) but to me all those deals at the time were awful deals I prefer to compare what WCS should get to good/great deals like Randle (8-9) and Harrell (6-8) who to me out compete/skill/produce him for the most part. On top of that he's not really a good fit next to a foundation piece in Bagley and his effort and non existent shot blocking are all major red flags. The guy is a solid rotation player/starter and you could do way worse but the Kings cannot overspend on these types of players unless they are amazing fits next to Fox/Bagley (everyone fits next to Bogie/Buddy).
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#424
#424
Nokidding said:
Does WCS skill-set alone even make him a 15+ million dollar player? (regardless of his effort) I know a ton of awful players @C have got massive deal e.g Bismack/Maheim/Mozgov/Noah (declining) but to me all those deals at the time were awful deals I prefer to compare what WCS should get to good/great deals like Randle (8-9) and Harrell (6-8) who to me out compete/skill/produce him for the most part. On top of that he's not really a good fit next to a foundation piece in Bagley and his effort and non existent shot blocking are all major red flags. The guy is a solid rotation player/starter and you could do way worse but the Kings cannot overspend on these types of players unless they are amazing fits next to Fox/Bagley (everyone fits next to Bogie/Buddy).
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If we can resign him for what Harrell gets (who by the way also let Jordan grab 22 reb last night) I'm fine with that. But I'm thinking he wants more.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#425
#425
let's do a trade involving Willie and maybe one filler for Julius Randle who is on a two year contract which is absurd considering the production he brings
 
kingsfan1984

kingsfan1984

Starter
#426
#426
Nokidding said:
Does WCS skill-set alone even make him a 15+ million dollar player? (regardless of his effort) I know a ton of awful players @C have got massive deal e.g Bismack/Maheim/Mozgov/Noah (declining) but to me all those deals at the time were awful deals I prefer to compare what WCS should get to good/great deals like Randle (8-9) and Harrell (6-8) who to me out compete/skill/produce him for the most part.
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The key I see with those overpaid guys is it was thought they possessed what wcs is lacking in, namely rim protection and rebounding i.e. a defensive force in the middle. WCS in this sense is more like Randle as a big with offensive utility and can move his feet on the defensive side, but a defensive nothing in the paint.

WHO is going to pay him big bucks as a RFA??? Is WCS even better than McGee or Larry Nance Jr? Plus you add in his motivational questions...I think there is a good chance WCS draws little interest above 10 mil a year. There are a LOT of big men I'd rather have than WCS

Is there another big in the league that is a gifted lob target but such a blank at rim protection and rebounding?
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#427
#427
VF21 said:
I think tonight will say a lot about WCS and his future with the Kings. If he doesn't step up and really work his posterior off, I think he may well have sealed his own fate. Vlade appreciates and rewards hard work. I think he's given WCS every opportunity to show his worth. Again, Vlade doesn't care what motivate a player provided it brings results. I truly believe he's in a much better spot to assess WCS than we are and I trust in him to make the right decisions.
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I have a feeling Vlade has already made the decision. We'll see....
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#428
#428
sergmatt said:
It's not about what he does tonight it's about consistency. It's easy to rebound (literally and figuratively) for one game after he takes a bunch of heat for his comments.

I think most likely Willie will have a great game tonight because he'll be temporarily motivated after what just happened. The real question is what does he do the following game and the game after that? After his comments are forgotten a week from now that's when you find out the truth.
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Consistency has to start somewhere. If he doesn't come out fully charged and motivated tonight, especially after all that's been said, that speaks volumes.

Kingster said:
I have a feeling Vlade has already made the decision. We'll see....
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I think you could very well be correct.
 
S

Sactown ExPat

Starter
#430
#430
kingsfan1984 said:
The key I see with those overpaid guys is it was thought they possessed what wcs is lacking in, namely rim protection and rebounding i.e. a defensive force in the middle. WCS in this sense is more like Randle as a big with offensive utility and can move his feet on the defensive side, but a defensive nothing in the paint.

WHO is going to pay him big bucks as a RFA??? Is WCS even better than McGee or Larry Nance Jr? Plus you add in his motivational questions...I think there is a good chance WCS draws little interest above 10 mil a year. There are a LOT of big men I'd rather have than WCS

Is there another big in the league that is a gifted lob target but such a blank at rim protection and rebounding?
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I think this is the answer. Anything hovering around 3/30 is fine. As Bagley develops and WCS moves to the bench, Willie’s production on that deal would be pretty good. He could chew up a lot of quality minutes at an affordable price.
 
S

sergmatt

Bench
#433
#433
He was excellent defensively down the stretch tonight and definitely put more effort into rebounding especially in the second half.

With that said, I'm not surprised. I think many of us figured he'd come up with a good night. The bigger question is how does he perform the next couple games?
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#434
#434
I mean, I know its fun to bag on WCS, but he's far and away been our best and most productive big. And he's improved his production and impact from last season. The only argument to not keeping him is we have 2 talented 19 and 20 year old big men who are under team control for another 2 and 3 seasons after this. We're a significantly worse team without him on the floor.

I'm one of the biggest proponents of always thinking long-term, but one major issue in the short-term is that if we trade him off during the season, we can all but kiss a playoff run goodbye. I suppose that's something that we can evaluate in February, but I think that'd be a giant mistake if we're still right in the hunt come trade deadline time and still deal him off. There's a lot for a young team to learn, especially us, to play meaningful games in March and April and that's experience we can absolutely parlay into next year.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#435
#435
The_Jamal said:
I mean, I know its fun to bag on WCS, but he's far and away been our best and most productive big. And he's improved his production and impact from last season. The only argument to not keeping him is we have 2 talented 19 and 20 year old big men who are under team control for another 2 and 3 seasons after this. We're a significantly worse team without him on the floor.

I'm one of the biggest proponents of always thinking long-term, but one major issue in the short-term is that if we trade him off during the season, we can all but kiss a playoff run goodbye. I suppose that's something that we can evaluate in February, but I think that'd be a giant mistake if we're still right in the hunt come trade deadline time and still deal him off. There's a lot for a young team to learn, especially us, to play meaningful games in March and April and that's experience we can absolutely parlay into next year.
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Luckily for us, it's a decision we don't actually have to make. ;)
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#443
#443
He played very well against the Pels, especially the 2nd half. It's really the same ol' tune with WCS: Is he to be, or not to be, a legit starting center in the NBA? Against the Thunder he's absolute garbage. Against the Pels he looks like a top 10 center. At this point, he's more like a "tease" than anything else. In a strange way, it reminds me of Cousins. After a while I just tuned out Cousins' antics with the refs. I'm starting to tune out WCS's inconsistency also. He's up. Fine. He's down. Fine. The weather changes. Ho hum. It's not news.
 
M

midtowner

Starter
#444
#444
Kingster said:
He played very well against the Pels, especially the 2nd half. It's really the same ol' tune with WCS: Is he to be, or not to be, a legit starting center in the NBA? Against the Thunder he's absolute garbage. Against the Pels he looks like a top 10 center. At this point, he's more like a "tease" than anything else. In a strange way, it reminds me of Cousins. After a while I just tuned out Cousins' antics with the refs. I'm starting to tune out WCS's inconsistency also. He's up. Fine. He's down. Fine. The weather changes. Ho hum. It's not news.
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WCS just keeps getting better every year. And is the fastest center in the league. I don’t understand the hate after a 17 rebound night.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#446
#446
Kingster said:
He played very well against the Pels, especially the 2nd half. It's really the same ol' tune with WCS: Is he to be, or not to be, a legit starting center in the NBA? Against the Thunder he's absolute garbage. Against the Pels he looks like a top 10 center. At this point, he's more like a "tease" than anything else. In a strange way, it reminds me of Cousins. After a while I just tuned out Cousins' antics with the refs. I'm starting to tune out WCS's inconsistency also. He's up. Fine. He's down. Fine. The weather changes. Ho hum. It's not news.
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This hasn't been a question for the last season and a half. He was a lower tier starting center last year for sure, but he was certainly a top 30 C. This year, he's probably in the 15-18 range. In no order:

Worse than:

Jokic
AD
Drummond
Horford
Embiid
KAT
Vuc
Gobert
Capela
Marc Gasol
Nurkic
Adams
Sabonis

Debatable:
Kanter
Jordan
Ibaka
Harrell

The real question is if he doesn't raise his play to possibly be in a top 10 C and basically is what he is now for the duration of his contract, is he worth a $20 mil/season deal? Have to consider how difficult it is to get FA talent here as well; getting a top 15, 25 year old center entering his prime is next to impossible for a team like us.
 
parker

parker

Bench
#447
#447
The_Jamal said:
This hasn't been a question for the last season and a half. He was a lower tier starting center last year for sure, but he was certainly a top 30 C. This year, he's probably in the 15-18 range. In no order:

Worse than:

Jokic
AD
Drummond
Horford
Embiid
KAT
Vuc
Gobert
Capela
Marc Gasol
Nurkic
Adams
Sabonis

Debatable:
Kanter
Jordan
Ibaka
Harrell

The real question is if he doesn't raise his play to possibly be in a top 10 C and basically is what he is now for the duration of his contract, is he worth a $20 mil/season deal? Have to consider how difficult it is to get FA talent here as well; getting a top 15, 25 year old center entering his prime is next to impossible for a team like us.
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How many of those centers on the list would fit the Kings style of play as well as WCS? Maybe 3? That's what makes Willie so valuable to this team no matter where he ranks compared to other centers in the league.

Also, for posters who seem to think he is selfish or playing for a contract, WCS clearly likes his teammates and is playing hard for them and the city.
 
S

sergmatt

Bench
#448
#448
He's been great the last 1.5 Games. Tonight was one of the best all around games he's ever had .

However that's been the contiuning issue with him, just when you think he's turned the corner and starting to get consistent......he'll have a week plus stretch of bad interior defense/rebounding games.

He's never going to be a superstar so I don't expect him to bring it every single night. If Willie could ever give you good effort and ultimately results on the boards in 7 or 8 of 10 games I think that would a realistic goal that would get him paid and make more believers in him.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#449
#449
sergmatt said:
He's been great the last 1.5 Games. Tonight was one of the best all around games he's ever had .

However that's been the contiuning issue with him, just when you think he's turned the corner and starting to get consistent......he'll have a week plus stretch of bad interior defense/rebounding games.

He's never going to be a superstar so I don't expect him to bring it every single night. If Willie could ever give you good effort and ultimately results on the boards in 7 or 8 of 10 games I think that would a realistic goal that would get him paid and make more believers in him.
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Agreed. :)
 
N

Nokidding

Bench
#450
#450
parker said:
How many of those centers on the list would fit the Kings style of play as well as WCS? Maybe 3? That's what makes Willie so valuable to this team no matter where he ranks compared to other centers in the league.

Also, for posters who seem to think he is selfish or playing for a contract, WCS clearly likes his teammates and is playing hard for them and the city.
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Lots imo if you were looking to pair Bagley with someone even the likes of Gasol/Jokic would work in that case, also based on this season I don't think Ibaka/Harrell are a debate both have been better, Ibaka has been a 3rd/2nd at times option on the best regular season team in the NBA. Aside from Kanter and maybe Drummond/Sabonis (similar to Marvin style of play minus athletic ability) everyone else would fit in with Bagley/Fox either through floor spacing/passing or lob threat and just being amazing players in general (KAT/Joel).

WCS did have himself a good game tonight but so props to him.
 
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