Willie Cauley-Stein: the 2018-19 Season watch

His said something a short time ago when he had the 17 rebound night as the ball just bounced right. We need the bounce to go our way half the time not a lot less of the time.

We will win our share with the way we play but when we break down it’s ugly.

We will not go along way starting players that would not start for other clubs our entire front court including our small forward are decent nba players but not starters for top teams.

I like our record don’t get me wrong but we have the same glaring weakness at three positions as when the season started.
So we have Bagley and he more than likely will be starting very soon and hopefully we get stronger with a trade and then fill out a little in the off season.

Fox has me nervous as he is taking a lot of punishment lately trying to will us and carry us on his shoulders. He is doing a good job but the other 3 positions besides our backcourt needs to share the load.
 
burekijogurt said:
I just watched the first quarter paying attention to WCS. the only play that matches this description was at 9:26 with Gilgeous Alexander driving and WCS failing to go up to try to block the shot. To start the game WCS attempts to block a shot on drivig guard but the bucket is scored. next drive he cuts off the driver and they are forced to reset. the next drive is Gilgeous Alexander who WCS trails and covers making him loop and hands hin off to Fox but the bucket is scored on Fox. etc.. he was not a defensive force out there but i did not see a consistent lack of effort. am I wrong? maybe we tend to ignore the good defensive plays by willie that are not blocks and hence visible and apparent?
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https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2018...in-is-not-protecting-the-rim-sacramento-kings

Did you check this article out? This came out after I made my post so it looks like I wasn't the only one who noticed it (maybe the article was based on my post? :cool:). It shows proof of him being lazy with help defense multiple times in the first quarter.

I'm not saying that Willie doesn't defend, because he does. He just doesn't defend like a center or even a power forward. He kind of defends like a really tall wing and that's why it's layup central against the Kings a lot of the time.
 
Ugh just watched some basketball reference stats and what stood out the most looking at WCS stats, he is career 32% jump shooter in these four years, this year he is shooting 33% while taking jumpshots, but finishing more than 60% his layups and dunks this season.

This guy needs to be put literally in every pnr situation when he is on the floor if we want him to succeed, not pick n pop or this high post offense trash, just roll to the damn rim and Fox or Bogdan will find you and because of that you will get paid, he gotta stop with his jump shots, that's not his game and his jumper is looking weird also. :D
 
ESP47 said:
https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2018...in-is-not-protecting-the-rim-sacramento-kings

Did you check this article out? This came out after I made my post so it looks like I wasn't the only one who noticed it (maybe the article was based on my post? :cool:). It shows proof of him being lazy with help defense multiple times in the first quarter.

I'm not saying that Willie doesn't defend, because he does. He just doesn't defend like a center or even a power forward. He kind of defends like a really tall wing and that's why it's layup central against the Kings a lot of the time.
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I saw that! the first video is the one I was referring to as matching the description of not going for it. The other ones from first quarter are just guards blowing by our guards. I guess its a difference in expectations. If WCS leaves Harrell/Boban on those drives then its an easy drop of to those guys and we would be talking about how he left Harell for an easy 2. He cannot guard his own man and the free and clear guard.

Since we don't have defensive stoppers on the perimeter (nor on the inside) we need to be better at team defense. They have to figure out how to defend dribble penetration as a team. And of course WCS has to fix his issues but the whole team needs to become better
 
burekijogurt said:
I saw that! the first video is the one I was referring to as matching the description of not going for it. The other ones from first quarter are just guards blowing by our guards. I guess its a difference in expectations. If WCS leaves Harrell/Boban on those drives then its an easy drop of to those guys and we would be talking about how he left Harell for an easy 2. He cannot guard his own man and the free and clear guard.

Since we don't have defensive stoppers on the perimeter (nor on the inside) we need to be better at team defense. They have to figure out how to defend dribble penetration as a team. And of course WCS has to fix his issues but the whole team needs to become better
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Yes, and team defense means rotating over to stop penetration.
 
burekijogurt said:
I saw that! the first video is the one I was referring to as matching the description of not going for it. The other ones from first quarter are just guards blowing by our guards. I guess its a difference in expectations. If WCS leaves Harrell/Boban on those drives then its an easy drop of to those guys and we would be talking about how he left Harell for an easy 2. He cannot guard his own man and the free and clear guard.

Since we don't have defensive stoppers on the perimeter (nor on the inside) we need to be better at team defense. They have to figure out how to defend dribble penetration as a team. And of course WCS has to fix his issues but the whole team needs to become better
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Shouldn't on defense you always make the rotation (unless it's a non scoring extremely pass first player like Teodsic with it or say rotating to a poor 3 point shooter while leaving a good one open) to force the extra pass to try at least cause a turnover rather than give up a for sure two points?
 
mac said:
Yes, and team defense means rotating over to stop penetration.
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Nokidding said:
Shouldn't on defense you always make the rotation (unless it's a non scoring extremely pass first player like Teodsic with it or say rotating to a poor 3 point shooter while leaving a good one open) to force the extra pass to try at least cause a turnover rather than give up a for sure two points?
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yes, and there are plenty of examples when he does. but some of those "rotations" in those videos are impossible to make. I am sure you can find plenty of examples like that for any big. If anything, giving Harrell to much respect by following up high was the mistake as opposed to not being able to rotate once the guard is blown by. In one of those videos WCS and Yogi are pretty much in line and Yogi cannot keep up but somehow WCS is expected to be faster? I also think there was too much talk to WCS about you cannot let Harell beat you etc...
 
The kings should trade Cauley-Stein at the deadline for multiple reasons I have stated before and won’t state again here.

However, if we do keep him and he becomes a RFA, we have to be okay saying goodbye to him if he gets overpaid. I don’t think he’s as good as Randle, Harrell, and Bjelica and we all know how much they were offered this very offseason. Then you have the very very questionable motor and the fact that he could only be playing better this year because it’s a contract year.

When you consider it all, I’m offering him $3-4 mil per year. If he gets offered more, you say goodbye. Some people say you can’t bleed value, I agree. But the time to not bleed that value is at the deadline (or an offseason or two ago if you asked me). Now it’s not bleeding value, it’s potentially creating a very unattractive contract. We need to avoid that.
 
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burekijogurt said:
Imagine how good we would be without WCS!
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It’s not hard to argue we couldn’t be at least. Do you see those stats on that SactownRoyalty page? He’s dead last in fg% rim for starting centers. Kings give up the most points in the paint in the league. It’s a problem. He’s a problem. We are very far from being “servicable in the paint”

I guess it’s subjective, but as bad as Kosta has been, I still think Kings would be better with him starting. We have offense at other positions, this interior defense issue can’t continue
 
Kingsfan23 said:
It’s not hard to argue we couldn’t be at least. Do you see those stats on that SactownRoyalty page? He’s dead last in fg% rim for starting centers. Kings give up the most points in the paint in the league. It’s a problem. He’s a problem. We are very far from being “servicable in the paint”

I guess it’s subjective, but as bad as Kosta has been, I still think Kings would be better with him starting. We have offense at other positions, this interior defense issue can’t continue
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I agree.
 
Ozymandias said:
It's absurdly unrealistic value tbh. he's going to hit the market this summer guys.... that means it only takes one team to put in a high bid.... if u really think every NBA team would look at willie and say "I'll bid no higher than $12MM per season" you're completely whacked out of your head.

The absolute bare-minumum for his services will start at $18MM per season...... The bid is going to run up into the 20's for sure, $22MM or $24MM per is much more realistic..... and then the Kings are gonna immediately match... end of story..
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Realistic for him is his $100M over 4? WCS is gonna laugh all the way to the bank and then never lace up his practice shoes again. Until next payday, that is.

WCS is a product of our system. We work well offensively with him, yes. As one of the worst defensive centers in the league, with limited range, and inability to shoot free throws, he's not someone you just sign and give to a coach. He's a center that is a liability at the end of games. You can't play him on defense, you can't play him on offense to hold a lead. He's a rim runner and fastbreak runner. That's 20-24M? I really hope someone offers him that because it would be so destructive to another team. 20% of their cap for an offensive specialist center with zero shot and excuses for why he can't block or rebound?
 
burekijogurt said:
I saw that! the first video is the one I was referring to as matching the description of not going for it. The other ones from first quarter are just guards blowing by our guards. I guess its a difference in expectations. If WCS leaves Harrell/Boban on those drives then its an easy drop of to those guys and we would be talking about how he left Harell for an easy 2. He cannot guard his own man and the free and clear guard.

Since we don't have defensive stoppers on the perimeter (nor on the inside) we need to be better at team defense. They have to figure out how to defend dribble penetration as a team. And of course WCS has to fix his issues but the whole team needs to become better
Click to expand...

I thought those were all rotations that were WCS's responsibility to make. He wasn't going to stop them on all of them but if he stops them on just one that could be a 4-5 point swing in an instant. If he rotates, now the driver has to make a decision to score around WCS or drop the ball off to the center. That's a lower percentage play than a wide open layup any day of the week.

WCS must have gotten the memo because he was much more active tonight.
 
SLAB said:
Willie would be a top center in the league if he had a motor anything like Montrezl Harrell.

That’s why I get so frustrated with the dude. All the talent and tools in the world, but often appears lost in his own head.

It’s a treat when he shows up all in.
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That's why I don't get the Willie apologists throwing other people under the bus. "Beli can't defend either." Dude was brought in to shoot 3s and he's doing that and more. And he also doesn't constantly talk about money while telling you why he's not making 3s. He's also out there giving us everything he has. Everyone is. Except wcs. Yet he's one of the most talented in terms of raw athletic ability.

If you teach a class and one kid gives his all and gets a b- you praise him. If the smartest kid sleeps all day, talks about how hard he works, does nothing and gets a b+ you hope he grows up to not be a douche.
 
Is it just me or is WCS jumper looking different from last year amd not in a good way? Last year I thought it was looking pretty decent but now it's looking awful and not just talking about the results of it
 
I know we all love to hate on him, but I still think WCS would be a good 3rd big. His role is just too big right now.

If he plays himself into a team friendly contract, resign the dude. He isn't worth starter money though, I'll tell you that.

Giles and Bagley are the future. And that's an undersized pairing, so we might need to move away from WCS and land a goon somehow anyways.

This is probably Vlade's biggest dilemma right now. Might be an interesting deadline this year.
 
gunks said:
I know we all love to hate on him, but I still think WCS would be a good 3rd big. His role is just too big right now.

If he plays himself into a team friendly contract, resign the dude. He isn't worth starter money though, I'll tell you that.

Giles and Bagley are the future. And that's an undersized pairing, so we might need to move away from WCS and land a goon somehow anyways.

This is probably Vlade's biggest dilemma right now. Might be an interesting deadline this year.
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He is not gonna settle for team friendly contract do you not remember what he said in the offseason?
 
gunks said:
I know we all love to hate on him, but I still think WCS would be a good 3rd big. His role is just too big right now.

If he plays himself into a team friendly contract, resign the dude. He isn't worth starter money though, I'll tell you that.

Giles and Bagley are the future. And that's an undersized pairing, so we might need to move away from WCS and land a goon somehow anyways.

This is probably Vlade's biggest dilemma right now. Might be an interesting deadline this year.
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WCS ideal role may be as a 3rd big, in a Bagley-Giles-WCS rotation. The question is, would he be willing to take it? Probably not, unless he gets paid first.

I can see coach Joeger itching to put Bagley in as the starting Center for WCS, but probably can't do it until after the trade deadline passes at the earliest.

If the Kings were really considering trading WCS, they will want to keep his stock up by keeping him in the starting lineup.

Maybe a WCS for Otto Porter swap at the deadline?

If Joeger figures that Bagley's future is at center, he may wait to bump WCS out of the starting lineup until after the trade deadline to do it.
 
OffTheWallJamal said:
He is not gonna settle for team friendly contract do you not remember what he said in the offseason?
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Baggin season!!!

Anyways, I'm just saying if he keeps getting obliterated by opposing bigs, he may play himself into backup money.

But there's always some GM out there down to overpay, especially if WCS continues to have the odd impact game here and there.

So who knows? At this point I'm hoping he gets traded. That's better than risking an overpay or losing him for nothing.
 
ockingsfan said:
WCS ideal role may be as a 3rd big, in a Bagley-Giles-WCS rotation. The question is, would he be willing to take it? Probably not, unless he gets paid first.

I can see coach Joeger itching to put Bagley in as the starting Center for WCS, but probably can't do it until after the trade deadline passes at the earliest.

If the Kings were really considering trading WCS, they will want to keep his stock up by keeping him in the starting lineup.

Maybe a WCS for Otto Porter swap at the deadline?

If Joeger figures that Bagley's future is at center, he may wait to bump WCS out of the starting lineup until after the trade deadline to do it.
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I am uncertain the Wiz do that trade sadly.
 
Willie at this point is going to force our hand. I’m all for it. He doesn’t have the IQ nor the desire to use his talents the way he can. He’s a false positive. Occasionally gives you a glimpse of what could be, but reality is he’s nothing more than average at best. Too focused on himself and providing excuses as to why he’s getting outrebounded 2:1 regularly.

And no Willie, the ball just doesn’t bounce your way 23 times in 1 game, let alone 3.
 
Sac.Kings said:
Willie at this point is going to force our hand. I’m all for it. He doesn’t have the IQ nor the desire to use his talents the way he can. He’s a false positive. Occasionally gives you a glimpse of what could be, but reality is he’s nothing more than average at best. Too focused on himself and providing excuses as to why he’s getting outrebounded 2:1 regularly.

And no Willie, the ball just doesn’t bounce your way 23 times in 1 game, let alone 3.
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When the opposing big goes 24/24/7/5/5 you know your big is garbage. Nurk is a nice player but not a world beater...
 
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