Will we ever be good again?
- Thread starter JJ_Evans
- Start date
Call me crazy, but I think if they weren't broke *** owners, things would be a little different right now. There'd at least be an arena deal in place, and probably a better than bargain-basement coach working this team.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
The problem is, for as long as we have sucked we should have a better young nucleus than we do.. Being 6 (?) years in the lottery... and we still have nothing definitive to look forward to out of that.. Demarcus is a mercurial, inconsistent talent who has holes in game off/on the court, and were pretty much already resigned to Reke being a quality role player. T-Rob? Jimmer? etc. etc., we've sucked too long to not have young talented core by now.. and at least one definitive all star player, and that is depressing
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Neither of those things is necessarily true. + Thornton. But blowing th last two lotteries has certainly been disastrous.
Biggest thing remains COACHING. Organization. Good coaches have gotten a lot more out of a lot less than we have right now.
Yes, I do think they will be good again. They have been good several times this season already. In fact on several occasions they have been better than their opponent. It's all relative. How good do you want them to be? I have seen them play good on several occasions this year. They weren't bad in beating the Lakers. They might be good again before the first of the year.
L
LWP777
Guest
Come on. This is hogwash. If this line of thinking is true then it means the Charlotte Bobcats were good at different times of the year last year. Every NBA team will look "good" from time to time but to say it's all relative makes no sense. The Kings are not "good" this year just as the Bobcats were not good last year.
L
LWP777
Guest
Somebody else posted something in a different thread that was a really good summary of why the Kings are in the position they are in now but it was something like:
1. Drafting Jimmer and TRob
2. Trading for Salmons
3. Signing Outlaw
4. Extending Smart
5. Signing Hayes
Basically these 5 moves have completely destroyed our team.
1. Drafting Jimmer and TRob
2. Trading for Salmons
3. Signing Outlaw
4. Extending Smart
5. Signing Hayes
Basically these 5 moves have completely destroyed our team.
True or not we have our team and coaches and still win ball games. Our stars, our team, our coaches will all get better and the sooner the better. It would be fun having Brick run the team but it ain't gonna happen. I'd be willing to donate my outside shot
(which I had before I hit 70) but it ain't gonna happen. We are what we are and I hope we play a little better tonight.
Don't agree that any of the five have destroyed our team.
I would sign on with #4, but I wouldn't agree that any of the others came anywhere near "destroying" our team.
I hope they get better but it truly is allrelative. I' ve seen at Arco several wins andI enjoyed the heck out of them. Love to see more butwhoknows. Row do you think a season ticket holder since the beginning gets by. In these 27 years this year's performance so far is not that unusual. It is all relative.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
100% agree.
1. shoulda drafted Leonard and Lillard!!!!! i think its safe to say our team would be a lot better. and thats not just hindsite, a lot of people thought the same thing before the drafts took place.
2.bad trade, Salmons is way overpaid
3.Outlaw should be flipping burgers somewhere
4.Smart should also be flipping burgers
5.Hayes was a complete waste of money.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
It has more to do with the new owner, and the influence of Jerry West.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
ya, an owner that actually gives a crap, and a GM that actually addresses what the team needs. (3pt shooters and a backup Center in our case)
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Ummm! Right now, I'd put my money on Lillard. I will admit that playing at a small school in a lesser conference always gives you pause for thought, but the thing that really amazed me when I saw him play was his total composure on the court. He was never rattled. He shot the ball well from everywhere, and in school, despite his scoring ability, he always looked like a pass first PG to me. When you throw in that he's a terrific athlete, I had him as one of those that I would be happy with at the fifth pick. I also had Barnes, Gilchrist, and Robinson at that position.
Turns out that Lillard looks exactly the same with Portland, as he did in college. When that happens! When a college player transitions to the NBA and doesn't miss a beat, your usually looking at greatness in the future. Not many players do that that aren't named Jordan, Wade, Lebron, Shaq, etc. I'm not saying that he'll be that good, but I wouldn't bet against him.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Actually, I think that if George was hit by a car, or somehow the family purged themselves of him, things would improve. I think Gavin and Joe are fine with the Kings in sacramento. I believe the problem is George. Why he has as much power as he does, is beyond me.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think Robinson will be a good player in the future. If, and its a big if, the Kings had added a Chris Kayman, or another decent shotblocking PF, then adding Robinson would be fine. We could send him to the D-League and let him develop. But we didn't, and as a result we expect him to be a big contributer now as opposed to later. Not his fault, but it is the fault of management. If we had drafted Lillard, then we wouldn't have needed to sign Brooks. One thing always leads to another, and sometimes its the wrong thing.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
First I have to accept your premise that the team is destroyed, which I don't. But even if I did, I don't agree with the five reasons you list. I'm not a fan of Smarts, so I'll give you that one. Hayes is playing very well, and if on a team with the right pieces, he's a good player. Its not his fault that at times he surrounded by dysfunctional teammates. Aquiring Salmons in and of itself, isn't a bad move. John is a good player, once again when surrounded with other good players. Its the trade itself that didn't make any sense at the time. We needed a good defensive SF, but to me John is more of a SG that can play some PG. So while he can play SF, he's not the ideal fit.
Outlaw has turned out to be a mistake, but his aquisition hardly destroys the team, or really affects our ability to sign other players in the future. I can understand taking a flyer on him for 3 mil. Not a lot of money, and he looked worth the gamble. If he turns out, you possibly have your starting SF. As for Robinson and Jimmer, I hardly think they've helped destroy the team. Its way too early to pass judgement on either of them. The fact that neither has made much a an impact in the short term can be considered a setback, but hardly a reason to label them as destroyers of the team.
I guess what I'm saying is that taken individually, none of the things you list can be blamed for destroying the team, but taken as a whole, along with other players not performing up to the levels we expected, they all add up to what we see right now. Cousins up and down season so far, along with suspensions. Tyreke's on again, off again jumpshot. Thornton's inconsistency. IT looking more like a SG than a PG. There's a lot of blame to go around.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Had no idea where to put this, but seemed like something of interest.
From this article about players possibly available in trade around the league: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nba-s-top-trade-candidates-000418190.html
From this article about players possibly available in trade around the league: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nba-s-top-trade-candidates-000418190.html
ParniValjak
All-Star
Keeping Evans and Cousins is imperative for us. I do have my doubt though about Kings willingness to do it.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
Kingsfan23
All-Star
The problem is, I am not the biggest fan of Reke/Cousins as most are, and I foresee us being in this position for the foreseeable future (3-4 years anyways unless something dramatic happens in the lottery), which covers the entirety of how the Arena situation will play out, which is the saddest thing.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
On a similar vein, from Ric Bucher:
http://sulia.com/channel/la-sports/f/61de6c2c-3599-49b9-a918-4c0fc028ac62/?source=twitter
If these reports are correct it would be a huge weight lifted. We can screw anything up, but as long as we don't trade away the talents there will still be hope. There's only 3 or 4 guys I really will fight for retaining. So while htere are guys I like more and guys I like yes, just leave the good pieces alone and use the other 8-9 and whatever picks you need and get us some bleeping help.
http://sulia.com/channel/la-sports/f/61de6c2c-3599-49b9-a918-4c0fc028ac62/?source=twitter
If these reports are correct it would be a huge weight lifted. We can screw anything up, but as long as we don't trade away the talents there will still be hope. There's only 3 or 4 guys I really will fight for retaining. So while htere are guys I like more and guys I like yes, just leave the good pieces alone and use the other 8-9 and whatever picks you need and get us some bleeping help.
L
LWP777
Guest
But how can you get decent pieces to replace the garbage 4-12 pieces that we have now without giving up DMC, Reke, or Thornton?? I can see TRob possibly having some value because he's raw and so unknown right now but it's not anywhere close to what the #5 pick would have netted us had we traded it before the draft.
Nobody is going to give us anything other than garbage for Cisco, Salmons, Outlaw, IT, etc.......Hell, most teams wouldn't take some of those guys for free if we offered because of their bad contracts.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Spot on! If we keep Cousins and Tyreke there will always be hope and all it would take is a coach who knows what he is doing and things will start moving in the right direction. Like you I also have about 4 players that I would like to keep but would give them up if it means getting more production overall.
For example, I like Thornton and think he could be a gun 6th man for any team in the league but I would probably be prepared to trade him if it mean that I can get a starting SF or a Ibaka type power forward to start next to Cousins and have JT come off the bench.
twslam07
All-Star
I don't think we can point to any one thing that can explain this mess. It is a combination of many things. Owners who can't/won't shovel out doe for players and staff, a GM who has lost his touch, a coach that does not develop our players, give roles, and set rotations, and a roster that is young, inexperienced, and does not compliment each other.
I still believe that this roster should be performing better than it is even with all of those limitations. It has been really bad lately because of the Evans injury as well as Thornton's shooting problem which may had something to do with him being distracted by his family problems. This is definitely not the right time to be panicking and jumping ship. Be patient. Let's see how they perform when Evans is healthy and Thornton is back to his normal form.
I still believe that this roster should be performing better than it is even with all of those limitations. It has been really bad lately because of the Evans injury as well as Thornton's shooting problem which may had something to do with him being distracted by his family problems. This is definitely not the right time to be panicking and jumping ship. Be patient. Let's see how they perform when Evans is healthy and Thornton is back to his normal form.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
This is the last year of Cisco's contract, so he's gone after this season. Salmons will be an expiring contract next season, so he has value in that capacity if nothing else. IT, Jimmer, and T. Robb all have value. Its just a matter of how much. Outlaw were stuck with unless he's a throw in on a bigger deal. There are teams around the league that could use Hayes off the bench. He's not a difference maker on our team, but on a good team he could be of help.
Not everyone looks at our players the same way we do, and thats true of how we tend to overvalue other teams players as well.
Padrino
All-Star
while i agree that this roster should be performing better than it is, and while i also don't know that it's "time to be panicking and jumping ship" necessarily, it is certainly time to be legitimately concerned. though the above whispers in this thread seem to indicate tyreke evans isn't likely going anywhere, with no extension on the table, it's still entirely possible that all of the 'reke bashers at kingsfans.com will get their wish in the offseason if the kings are outpriced by the market. of course, the kings are also quite terrible without evans in the lineup, so, in such an instance, i can't imagine demarcus cousins would be terribly thrilled to re-up in '14, when departing from a losing culture will undoubtedly take precedence in his frustrated mind. what the hell is he gonna stick around here for? well, obviously there's been that overwhelming outpouring of support for demarcus in the face of persistent struggles this season--from his owners, his front office, his coaches, his teammates, and the sacramento community, so maybe the loyalty will be reciprocated... uhm... oh... wait a minute... yeah... about that...
i've said it many times before and i will say it once again: this year was the year. if significant strides were not made, if the coaching staff failed to capitalize on and sufficiently grow the natural abilities of demarcus cousins and tyreke evans, then the wheels were always gonna fall off this experiment. failing to get behind the team's 22-year-old franchise center at crucial moments of both his development as a player and his psychological development certainly hasn't helped, either. if tyreke ever gets healthy (another legitimate concern), then there's still time to turn the damn thing around, but winning must be a priority as the calendar flips over to 2013. this team can't just have another solid post-all-star-break stretch and call it a season. they've gotta inch closer to .450/.500 territory, where the basement doesn't feel so perpetually nearby...
Last edited:
