Who is to blame?

[bajaden]

Forbes article on 2/2/11 has Sac at #5 on the miserable index. It doesn't bode well that Stockton, Modesto, and Merced are also in the top 5.
http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/02/stockton-miami-cleveland-business-washington-miserable-cities.html

Modesto has one of the highest unemployment rates in the united states, thanks to our wonderful politicians shutting off the water to the valley. Stockton has one of the highest crime rates in the country. Merced is in the same unemployment bed with Modesto.

 

[bajaden]

Forbes clearly has some kind of agenda in that article putting half of California in there while ignoring several regions that have been in deep depression for decades as well as the deep south.

Forbes is all about economics, and California is in terrible shape economicaly. Not sure where it is on the list, but I'm sure its in the top five as to deficit spending and money owed that it can't pay. All that might be percieved differently if the state was taking a different approach to fixing the problem, but its not. Its still going down the same path, and I think that has something to do with Forbes ranking.

 

[bajaden]

Why did I post about not blaming the city(people) and people acted like I said don't blame the city councelmembers/politicians?



kennadog: The various uses of the arena are all good things. Unfortunately that has not been the message that has gotten out there. The message comes out as the Kings = arena, and the Kings are the only attraction in town, which turns off a lot of support that you should be trying to win over.

Instead of it being an arena for the whole city, like the recent announcement of still pursuing a downtown arena, it has become entwined with the Kings and the sentiment that they are bigger than anything. For the very reason the message is Save the Kings, the other benefits of the arena get overlooked.

So how many times does it have to be pointed out that the Kings are tennants for only 41 times a year, not counting playoffs or exhibition games. And that the arena is used for other events like concerts and the Ice Capades. It was used for march madness until NCAA officials deemed the arena unsuitable for their needs. Are we dealing with perception or reality. I would hope that when were discussing a new arena, and the cost involved, were dealing with reality.

Just who is it that says the Kings think they're bigger than anyone? It hasn't come from the Maloofs. Who then? I'll tell you who. People that don't want the arena built. People that look at the Maloofs and only see fat cat rich guys that are trying to bilk every dollar they can out of the town before they up and leave it for dead. When the truth is, the Maloofs have donated millions of dollars over the years to sacramento and local charities. They've done everything they can to put on a happy face. For ten years they've said they want to stay in sacramento, and everytime they've said it, someone like you has stepped up to the plate and vilified them.

As for the message, save the Kings. Yep! You nailed it. Thats what people on a Kingsfan fourm come up with. Shocking isn't it, that people who post on a fourm called Kingsfan.com, would come up with a slogan like "Save the Kings". Were trying to send a message to the Maloofs that were still behind them, and at the same time show the city council something needs to be done. NOW! Is that so hard to comprehend? Were not dealing with children here. I would think were past drawing everything in comic book charcters so everyone can understand the message.

This isn't complicated. Everyone has their own agenda. Mine is the Kings. For others it might be concerts, or the possiblity of a future hockey team. Whatever! Don't point fingers at people for representing their own agenda, and then say its the only agenda they have. Thats a small minded approach. But then it fits the city mentality.

 

[kennadog]

Why did I post about not blaming the city(people) and people acted like I said don't blame the city councelmembers/politicians?

kennadog: The various uses of the arena are all good things. Unfortunately that has not been the message that has gotten out there. The message comes out as the Kings = arena, and the Kings are the only attraction in town, which turns off a lot of support that you should be trying to win over.

Instead of it being an arena for the whole city, like the recent announcement of still pursuing a downtown arena, it has become entwined with the Kings and the sentiment that they are bigger than anything. For the very reason the message is Save the Kings, the other benefits of the arena get overlooked.

That's because its been the rallying cry of the anti-arena crowd. For some reason, and not just on this issue, people who are negative about things always bray the loudest. Don't ask me to explain why people find it easier to tear things down than build them up. There are those of us who have labored to explain the other side.

Unfortunately when you try and talk in a civilized, reasoned manner, you get drowned out by the hate and the pervasive misrepresentations and downright wrong statements. If you cite facts, with backup documentation, you lose. The anti-arena folks will not acknowledge a ture statement of facts or engage in any kind of reasoned, civil discourse. I tried over at the Bee, but instead of responding to my documented facts, they started to attack me personally and represent things about me that weren't true. When you call out their lies or misrepresentations, they just don't respond.

Unfortunately, people seem to want to believe their misrepresentations or outright lies.

 

[kennadog]

I put the majority of the blame on the city although I have to point out the situation back in '03 or '04 when the Maloofs stormed out of a meeting where they and the city were going to split the costs of a $350 million arena. The city was going to put up $200 million while the Maloofs would take care of the remaining $150 million. The Maloofs thought that was too much. Right about now, that deal looks like gold compared to how much is needed for an arena now in a broke city and state.

Bajaden is right. The city totally blindsided the Maloofs with that announcement. It was one of the biggest blunders the city ever made. (The second was Q and R, where they "mislead" the NBA and the Maloofs. It showed ineptitude and bungling on the part of our civic leaders.

The Maloofs hadn't even been in negotiations with the city yet. They were being told how much MSE would contribute and how much would be spent on an arena, without even being contacted for negotiations with the city. Sorry, but with all the deals cities, counties and states do everyday with buinesses regarding financing with public money involved, I've never seen anything like that ever happen. (I've been associated with many deals with federal and state financing.) Also, back thenland and building costs were much higher. $350 million probably wouldn't have worked then. Actually with the market turn down, we are going to miss out on a golden opportuniy to get an arena done for less cost. Contractors on my government subsidized projects are practically on their knees with thanks in the current economy. Same goes for subs and the many workers they hire, who would otherwise have been unemployed..

The way this usually happens a developer or business applies for all the financing they can get elsewhere. Then they say how short they are on funds that will make the project feasible and that is the "gap" that government entities try to fill, if they really want the project to work or to keep a business in town or in a certain location in town or as part of redevelopment of a blighted area, etc. Then the plan is reviewed for feasibility and need for the subsidy with a report going to a governing body for a yea or nay. You dson't announce the subsidy or the total cost, without even talikng with the developer/businessman. That isn't how three hotels and places like the Dive Bar and and its pizza neighbor downtown got there governement subsidies (to name a very few examples).

 

[kennadog]

kennadog, here's a hearty "woof" of appreciation for that note.

Thank you and a "woof" backatcha!

 

[pshn80]

Kennadog, what can we do to encourage the Bee to support the concept of replacing the Arco Arena which has generally been acknowledged to be much past its prime? How can Kings fans and arena supporters influence the Bee to help out? It sounds like you have had a bad experience with the Bee, and there is no question in my mind that they are one of many that we need in support of an arena.

 

[kingsboi]

Who's to blame? There are too many options out there to just select one. How about for one the city of Sacramento and the supposed "true fans" that only support the team when they are legit and when they need the most support, empty arena.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Interesting little poll at this point - still with plenty of time to vote. The "Sacramento small mindset" leads fairly handily over "bunch of local politicians," with other choices down the list. No doubt, smallness and dumb politicians are main reasons elusive arena deal and Kings fate hangs in the balance at this end of the rope juncture.

While I would say Maloof's are not totally blameless if you dig deep enough to find every villian in this sad story, I wouldn't put them anywhere near top of the list. One mistake they made was some extremely bad timing as they appeared in that glitzy Carl's Jr commercial promoting a ridiculous $6,000 champagne burger for billionaires. It repeatedly ran on TV in middle of the Q & R debate! I always wondered who was handling their PR at that point to be so out of touch in local small town thinking reality here, plus fact that Carl's Jr is a main sponser of MSE to this day. It was one of the reasons I selected my particular avatar on KingsFans - the commercial seemed so completely over-the-top and brain-dead clueless.

 

[JB_kings]

Not hard to believe. They rank cities on their amenities, affordable housing, crime rate etc. When you looking for things to do, other than the Kings or some other event that might be playing at ARCO or the convention center, what the hell is there. Don't get me wrong, I love the small town feel, but unfortunately just about everything I can find for intertainment in sacramento, I can find in Topeka Kansas.

Sacramento's biggest claim before the Kings was being between the mountians and the bay. That and lots of gubmint jobs. Last time I recall being so depressed about my home town, Jerry Brown was govenor... oh snap.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

We had a chance long time ago by the locals didn't get behind it. One step closer to seeing how losing a NBA team will hurt the city in more than one ways. Too bad it will be too late by then.