King Baller
All-Star
Tyreke and GP get my vote.
KB
KB
Who is the best player the Kings have drafted and who was the GM who drafted him?
- Thread starter King Baller
- Start date
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Well, that's a tad early to say don't you think? 
It's obviously the highest pick Petrie has had to work with however.
It's obviously the highest pick Petrie has had to work with however.
Emma
Starter
Oscar Robertson - 1960 - Cincinnati Royals - I believe the GM was Joe Axelson.
http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=RoberOs01
http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=RoberOs01
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I believe the premise was the best draft pick by the Kings. Robertson, one of my all time favorite players was drafted by the Royals... Yeah, I know I'm nic picking.. Perhaps there should be time frame put on this thread..
It's on the OP to define parameters, then. By the wording of the question, Robertson qualifies as an answer.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Not to nic pick again, but the OP did use the word Kings. Maybe its a foolish assumption by me, but I thought his intent was directed at the sacramento kings. Hey, I just trying to stay with the spirit of intent.
King Baller
All-Star
Well, that's a tad early to say don't you think?
Yes its early, but the young man has it. The "it" needed to be a top player in the NBA. So I will stand by my selection
KB
Dreadnought
Bench
This topic is full of fail. It doesn't even make sense as to why we are discussing this.
King Baller
All-Star
The Royals became the Kings. While Bajaden is correct that my intent was to keep this limited to the "Kings", lets include the Big O in the Mix. So the best players drafted by the Kings and the GM who pulled the trigger are:
1) Oscar Robertson picked in 1960 by Joe Axelson.
2) Tyreke Evans Picked in 2009 by Geoff Petrie.
OK, who else goes on the list?
KB
King Baller
All-Star
Widowmaker2k
Bench
Tiny Archibald, drafted in 1970. According to this website, Axelson wasn't hired until 1969. Making him the GM for the Archibald pick, but not the Robertson pick (perhaps Pepper Wilson?).
Not to nic pick again, but the OP did use the word Kings. Maybe its a foolish assumption by me, but I thought his intent was directed at the sacramento kings. Hey, I just trying to stay with the spirit of intent.
I feel it only right that I "NIT pick" your first few words. The phrase is nit picking, which comes from the practice of checking someone's head for lice eggs aka nits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitpicking
Now, back to the topic at hand... I think the best player drafted by the Kings was Pedrag Stojakovic. And it was a Petrie decision to take him. I'd also have to list Kevin Martin as an excellent acquisition by the enigmatic Mr. Petrie.
My rationale for Peja is that he was an integral part of what became THE TEAM. He took our breath away and made us believe. I still get chills thinking about his ability to pull up ande shoot threes with so little effort.
My rationale for Peja is that he was an integral part of what became THE TEAM. He took our breath away and made us believe. I still get chills thinking about his ability to pull up ande shoot threes with so little effort.
Widowmaker2k
Bench
I agree, as far as Sacramento era drafts, it's probably Peja. There are some others that deserve to be in the conversation (namely Martin and Hedo), but didn't Peja finish third in MVP votes the season Webber was injured?
There was a pretty good argument about whether Peja would have continued to flourish if Webb hadn't come back, too. The team actually did very well until Webber was forced back into the lineup to prepare for the playoffs. I still have mixed feelings but I do remember there was a strong sentiment (that could still be argued today) that Peja's game suffered the most when Webb returned.
And that was in a nutshell the crux of the Peja v. Webber argument. Unfortunately, it couldn't be argued without people getting way too emotional about it. I suspect the situation might well still be the same.
If people want to try and discuss it without the vitriol and rancor we could move it to its own thread, but I have serious doubts about how long the thread would be open.
Widowmaker2k
Bench
I agree %100. I don't think a Peja led team was a title contender. He, like Martin, was about as a good a second option (scoring wise, not in terms of versatility) as you can get, though.
Anyways, I don't think the OP wants this to be another Webb vs. Peja thread, so, I'll also go ahead and nominate Gerald Wallace as a solid Petrie pick. Yeah, he was definitely the one that we let get away, but he turned into a pretty good player, though a bit injury prone.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Since Oscar Robertson has mentioned, along with Joe Axelson, I thought I would do a little research. I can find no mention of Axelson until 1969. Oscar was drafted in 1960, and I can't find who the GM was unless it was one of the Harrrison brothers who owned the team at the time. Heres an excerpt form an article that I had to copy because cut and paste wouldn't work:
" In 1969 , General manager Joe Axelson, who Oscar Robertson said "Didn't know a basketball from a pumpkin", and Bob Cousy, who disliked the city (Cincinnati) were hired to take over things. Axelson showed horrendous trading skills, often gutting Cousy's best efforts. But then, the 41 year old coach had tried to play himself, to equally bad results. As the 1970's arrived, the Royals had become a joke. Axelson was also part of the new ownership that bought the team and moved them to Kansas City in 1972. Loyality to fan's wasn't his strong suit."
Also noted in another article was the fact that Axelson is famous for being the only GM in the history of sports to fail with the same franchise in four different cities. Cincinnati, Kansas City, Omaha, and Sacramento.
Some other great players during that time period were Jack Twyman, Jerry Lucas, Nate Archibald, Norm Van Lier and the great tragic Maurice Stokes, who hit his head going after a rebound and collapsed on the flight back home. He spent the rest of his life in a bed. When new owership led by Louis Jacob's took over the team they dropped all responsiblilty for Stokes. Leaving him basicly pennyless. Jack Twyman started a charity golf tourney and mangaged to raise enough funds to support Stokes for the rest of his living days. This is the same owner by the way that thinking the Royals wouldn't make it to the NBA championships that year, had booked a circus for that time period. So when the Royals went to the finals against the Celtic's, they had to play the whole series away from home, and lost.
Other notable facts from that time period. The then Rochester Royals won the equvilent of the NBA championship being led by none other than Otto Graham. Who only played one year for the Royals and then went on to win 7 NFL championships with the Cleveland Browns. Another notable player for the Royals was Chuck Conners, who also played MLB and then became the rifleman on tv.
By the way, my pick would be Oscar Robertson. Considering that one could argue he's one of the best players to ever play the game, if not the best of all time. No offense to Jordan or Kobe, but he could do everything they could do, but they couldn't do everything he could do.
" In 1969 , General manager Joe Axelson, who Oscar Robertson said "Didn't know a basketball from a pumpkin", and Bob Cousy, who disliked the city (Cincinnati) were hired to take over things. Axelson showed horrendous trading skills, often gutting Cousy's best efforts. But then, the 41 year old coach had tried to play himself, to equally bad results. As the 1970's arrived, the Royals had become a joke. Axelson was also part of the new ownership that bought the team and moved them to Kansas City in 1972. Loyality to fan's wasn't his strong suit."
Also noted in another article was the fact that Axelson is famous for being the only GM in the history of sports to fail with the same franchise in four different cities. Cincinnati, Kansas City, Omaha, and Sacramento.
Some other great players during that time period were Jack Twyman, Jerry Lucas, Nate Archibald, Norm Van Lier and the great tragic Maurice Stokes, who hit his head going after a rebound and collapsed on the flight back home. He spent the rest of his life in a bed. When new owership led by Louis Jacob's took over the team they dropped all responsiblilty for Stokes. Leaving him basicly pennyless. Jack Twyman started a charity golf tourney and mangaged to raise enough funds to support Stokes for the rest of his living days. This is the same owner by the way that thinking the Royals wouldn't make it to the NBA championships that year, had booked a circus for that time period. So when the Royals went to the finals against the Celtic's, they had to play the whole series away from home, and lost.
Other notable facts from that time period. The then Rochester Royals won the equvilent of the NBA championship being led by none other than Otto Graham. Who only played one year for the Royals and then went on to win 7 NFL championships with the Cleveland Browns. Another notable player for the Royals was Chuck Conners, who also played MLB and then became the rifleman on tv.
By the way, my pick would be Oscar Robertson. Considering that one could argue he's one of the best players to ever play the game, if not the best of all time. No offense to Jordan or Kobe, but he could do everything they could do, but they couldn't do everything he could do.
Obviously all of this depends on the definition of "best". It seems hard to dispute that Robertson was the best overall player to have been selected by the franchise. While I doubt many would suggest that Kevin Martin was better than the Big O, he is thus far the third-best player from his draft (by win shares) yet was picked with #26, which is a LOT of value.
But in that vein, Hedo Turkoglu has been the single BEST player from the 2000 draft (again by win shares), and he was selected #16, which is the lowest position that the best player in the draft has been selected in the past 15 years (I didn't look beyond that). Basically, if you take into account the strength of the draft and the expected (diminishing) value of later draft picks, Turkoglu was the best top-30 pick in the past 15 years (though it's a bit early to make that proclamation for, say, the 2004 draft onwards.) Not just by the Kings, but by anybody. So I'd put Hedo/Petrie in the discussion.
But in that vein, Hedo Turkoglu has been the single BEST player from the 2000 draft (again by win shares), and he was selected #16, which is the lowest position that the best player in the draft has been selected in the past 15 years (I didn't look beyond that). Basically, if you take into account the strength of the draft and the expected (diminishing) value of later draft picks, Turkoglu was the best top-30 pick in the past 15 years (though it's a bit early to make that proclamation for, say, the 2004 draft onwards.) Not just by the Kings, but by anybody. So I'd put Hedo/Petrie in the discussion.
This brings to mind a scary alternate question:
"What player for the Royals/Kings was most under-appreciated by the FO, and who was the GM who wasted him?"
But let's not go there...
Telemachus
Starter
This is why many felt that Webber needed to be brought back for the Playoffs. There were 2 problems with this IMO. First, the Kings had the best record in the NBA at the time. They may have failed in the playoffs, but we will never know for sure. Second, Webber was no longer a threat in the post, which is the main reason we thought he was needed for the playoffs. The result was that he disrupted the flow of the team, Peja, and resulted in them going out quickly in the playoffs anyways.
Royals / Kings
Big O and Harrison for the Royals. Anybody that would argue that just doesn't know basketball.
From the Sacramento era it's a tougher call. Although Hedo has turned out to be the best current player that was drafted by the Kings, I would have to say that Peja did more for the franchise when he was here than any other Kings draft pick.
Big O and Harrison for the Royals. Anybody that would argue that just doesn't know basketball.
From the Sacramento era it's a tougher call. Although Hedo has turned out to be the best current player that was drafted by the Kings, I would have to say that Peja did more for the franchise when he was here than any other Kings draft pick.
Telemachus
Starter
Another player I would throw out there from the Sacramento era is Ricky Barry. He was going to be scary good. It is just too bad what happened with him.
Lionel Simmons was a pretty good pick as well (until he blew out his knees, that old Arco curse). I have always wondered what his ceiling would have been if he had stayed healthy. I don't think was going to be an all-star every year, but think he might have made it a couple of times.
Lionel Simmons was a pretty good pick as well (until he blew out his knees, that old Arco curse). I have always wondered what his ceiling would have been if he had stayed healthy. I don't think was going to be an all-star every year, but think he might have made it a couple of times.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I thought Robertson's observations about Axelson were interesting. They didn't bury Axelson under ARCO did they? Boy is he a perfect example of the Peter principle.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
This brings to mind a scary alternate question:
"What player for the Royals/Kings was most under-appreciated by the FO, and who was the GM who wasted him?"
But let's not go there...
First that leaps to mind is Otis Thorpe, by once again Axelson. A close second would be Jerry Lucas, by God, once again by Axelson.
He also traded away Oscar Robertson to the Bucks. Ahemm! The Bucks won the NBA championship the next year.
King Baller
All-Star
So we have these players & GM's in the mix:
I say we give the Big O the #1 spot.
1) Oscar Robertson picked in 1960 by Les Harrison.
I will list these others mentioned in no particular order:
) Tyreke Evans Picked in 2009 by Geoff Petrie.
) Peja Stojakovic picked in 1996 by Geoff Petrie.
) Kevin Martin picked in 2004 by Geoff Petrie.
) Nate "Tiny" Archibald picked in 1970 by Joe Axelson.
) Hedo Turkglu picked in 2000 by Geoff Petrie.
) Corliss Williamson picked in 1995 by Geoff Petrie.
) Otis Thorpe picked in 1984 by Joe Axelson.
) Jerry Lucas picked in 1962? by Les Harrison.
) Gerald Wallace picked in 2001 by Geoff Petrie.
KB
I say we give the Big O the #1 spot.
1) Oscar Robertson picked in 1960 by Les Harrison.
I will list these others mentioned in no particular order:
) Tyreke Evans Picked in 2009 by Geoff Petrie.
) Peja Stojakovic picked in 1996 by Geoff Petrie.
) Kevin Martin picked in 2004 by Geoff Petrie.
) Nate "Tiny" Archibald picked in 1970 by Joe Axelson.
) Hedo Turkglu picked in 2000 by Geoff Petrie.
) Corliss Williamson picked in 1995 by Geoff Petrie.
) Otis Thorpe picked in 1984 by Joe Axelson.
) Jerry Lucas picked in 1962? by Les Harrison.
) Gerald Wallace picked in 2001 by Geoff Petrie.
KB
Last edited:
King Baller
All-Star
By the way thanks to Bajaden for the heads up on Jerry Lucas. His Wiki page is very interesting reading. Here is a excerpt:
Professional basketball
[edit]Cleveland Pipers
" I never had any special desire to be a professional basketball player ", Lucas later said about his pro career. Yet his visibility was so high, he announced his decision to join the Cleveland Pipers of the ABL in May, 1962. He had spurned the NBA Cincinnati Royals because he wanted to play fewer games, wanted stock options as part of his pay, and wanted to delay playing to complete his doctorate in Business Marketing. Abe Saperstein and young Cleveland owner George Steinbrenner listened and signed the young star. Lucas agreed to a combination player-management contract that listed him as an owner of the team before he had ever played a pro game. The NBA, which desperately wanted Lucas because of his remarkable popularity, asked Steinbrenner to move his Pipers to the NBA. Steinbrenner agreed. For several months, the Cleveland Pipers were set to take aplace in the NBA's Eastern Division. Saperstein then threatened suit, while the NBA then heaped a pile of entry fees upon Steinbrenner. In August, 1962, the deal collapsed, and Steinbrenner was forced to fold the team and declare bankruptcy. After Cleveland, the defending ABL champion, folded, the entire ABL soon after followed suit. It was an unprecedented chain of events for a rookie pro basketball player that really has not been since matched.
Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Lucas
I am guessing a Pro basketball player was not such hot deal in 1962.
KB
Professional basketball
[edit]Cleveland Pipers
" I never had any special desire to be a professional basketball player ", Lucas later said about his pro career. Yet his visibility was so high, he announced his decision to join the Cleveland Pipers of the ABL in May, 1962. He had spurned the NBA Cincinnati Royals because he wanted to play fewer games, wanted stock options as part of his pay, and wanted to delay playing to complete his doctorate in Business Marketing. Abe Saperstein and young Cleveland owner George Steinbrenner listened and signed the young star. Lucas agreed to a combination player-management contract that listed him as an owner of the team before he had ever played a pro game. The NBA, which desperately wanted Lucas because of his remarkable popularity, asked Steinbrenner to move his Pipers to the NBA. Steinbrenner agreed. For several months, the Cleveland Pipers were set to take aplace in the NBA's Eastern Division. Saperstein then threatened suit, while the NBA then heaped a pile of entry fees upon Steinbrenner. In August, 1962, the deal collapsed, and Steinbrenner was forced to fold the team and declare bankruptcy. After Cleveland, the defending ABL champion, folded, the entire ABL soon after followed suit. It was an unprecedented chain of events for a rookie pro basketball player that really has not been since matched.
Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Lucas
I am guessing a Pro basketball player was not such hot deal in 1962.
KB
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