Who else is sick of everything revolving around LeBron!?..

[Rain man]

Ok throw in a MLE PG who wants a ring and Lakers are dooooomed!! Woot Woot

I can't believe you would want that team to win. Seriously, Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are all showing themselves as cowards who can't or don't want to try and get it done on their own. What happened to the days when an "elite" player wanted to lead his own NBA team to a title. If I am Jordan, Bird, Olajuwon, Shaq, or GASP Kobe, I am relieved that these guys all decided to play together. Those guys, that largely did it on their own (or more appropriately, did it with a team built around them) should get a lot more respect that LBJ, Wade, and Bosh, who are all apparently too scared to actually show us what they have.

This is bad for the NBA. Truly elite players emerge when they are pushed by other truly elite players. Bird and Magic pushed each other, Jordan, Barkley, Thomas, etc... pushed each other. LBJ and Wade (arguably the two best players in the league) are apparently afraid of pushing each other. What a disgrace. I never thought I would dislike LBJ and Wade, but this has pretty much done it...

 

[Kingstime]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100708

Great article about all of this, I don't know where to put it so I decided to throw it here. This whole thing is so crazy I really think legacy wise the only one that wouldn't take a hit is Wade.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This is bad for the NBA.

That remains to be seen and will also be determined by how it is measured. For frontrunner fans with no loyalties but the W a ton of new jerseys will be sold. Ratings should be huge since may will tune in to see the super team and root them on while just as many if not more will tune in to root against them.

The big losers are clearly the small market teams with upper tier players approaching free agency. But if this team doesn't win right away the pressure and negative press will be like nothing we've seen before... remember LA in 04? And those guys didn't sign max deals and more or less had the blessing of their former franchises. In that case guys may be inclined to stay with their teams down the road.

We'll see.

I do wonder what the NBA is thinking and if sign and trades are involved if there are any questions that everything is on the level.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

No, you don't need the MLE if you're under the cap. I don't know if you still get the MLE if you put yourself over the cap in that same free agency period, though. That might change things.

In essence, you don't get an MLE if you're under the cap. What technically happens is that everybody gets an MLE, but it counts against the cap. So you have to waive it in order to sign all the way up to the cap. If you keep it, you can only sign up to the level of Cap-MLE. So essentially, you don't get one, and you don't earn one by spending up to the cap, because you've waived it.

 

[Superman]

In essence, you don't get an MLE if you're under the cap. What technically happens is that everybody gets an MLE, but it counts against the cap. So you have to waive it in order to sign all the way up to the cap. If you keep it, you can only sign up to the level of Cap-MLE. So essentially, you don't get one, and you don't earn one by spending up to the cap, because you've waived it.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So then reports that the Heat are going to sign the Three Amigos and sign Mike Miller to a five year, $30 million deal are obviously conflicting, unless they find a way to dump Beasly.

 

[Jkbiker]

I can't believe you would want that team to win. Seriously, Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are all showing themselves as cowards who can't or don't want to try and get it done on their own. What happened to the days when an "elite" player wanted to lead his own NBA team to a title. If I am Jordan, Bird, Olajuwon, Shaq, or GASP Kobe, I am relieved that these guys all decided to play together. Those guys, that largely did it on their own (or more appropriately, did it with a team built around them) should get a lot more respect that LBJ, Wade, and Bosh, who are all apparently too scared to actually show us what they have.

This is bad for the NBA. Truly elite players emerge when they are pushed by other truly elite players. Bird and Magic pushed each other, Jordan, Barkley, Thomas, etc... pushed each other. LBJ and Wade (arguably the two best players in the league) are apparently afraid of pushing each other. What a disgrace. I never thought I would dislike LBJ and Wade, but this has pretty much done it...

Well I had no problem rooting for the Celtics when they formed their big three with Garnett, Pierce, Allen
I didnt think them forming a great team was bad for the NBA, I have enjoyed watching LeBron and Wade play in the NBA
and would love to see them play together and throw a beat down on LA. Lakers

 

[Superman]

I can't believe you would want that team to win. Seriously, Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are all showing themselves as cowards who can't or don't want to try and get it done on their own. What happened to the days when an "elite" player wanted to lead his own NBA team to a title. If I am Jordan, Bird, Olajuwon, Shaq, or GASP Kobe, I am relieved that these guys all decided to play together. Those guys, that largely did it on their own (or more appropriately, did it with a team built around them) should get a lot more respect that LBJ, Wade, and Bosh, who are all apparently too scared to actually show us what they have.

This is bad for the NBA. Truly elite players emerge when they are pushed by other truly elite players. Bird and Magic pushed each other, Jordan, Barkley, Thomas, etc... pushed each other. LBJ and Wade (arguably the two best players in the league) are apparently afraid of pushing each other. What a disgrace. I never thought I would dislike LBJ and Wade, but this has pretty much done it...

First of all, Wade already has a ring and a Finals MVP.

Secondly, LeBron has spent the last seven years trying to win a championship essentially by himself, and realizes that he needs more help than the Cavs have been able to get him. He made it very clear two years ago what his intentions were this summer, so it's not like he's catching them off guard.

Third, Jordan had Pippen and a very good supporting cast; Bird had hall of famers (including Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, and Bill Walton, plus ancillary players like Danny Ainge, etc.); Olajuwan had Clyde Drexler, Sam Cassell, Vernon Maxwell, etc.; Shaq had Kobe; Kobe didn't win a damn thing until they got Pau Gasol, plus they have Fisher, Odom, Artest, etc. No one does it by themselves. No one.

Fourth, Bosh is a #2, and has apparently come to terms with that. Good for him, because that's the only way he'll ever win a ring.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The difference between the Celts and most certainly all the other teams of the past is that one team organization set up the roster either through dumb luck or skill, in this case you basically have the players dictating a lottery winner and it appears to be Miami by virture of their location and the fact that the state of Florida has no personal income tax. That is the worst thing possible that can happen to the competitive balance of the league.

I think people forget that there was reluctance on the part of Allen and Garnett to join the Celtics and that the Celtics had tried to win with a youth movement and gave up some decent players to make it happen rather than just coordinate a bunch of expirings to all land in the same year that was loaded with free agent talent. And they basically mortgaged their future for a 3 year window that appears to be rapidly closing. But if this goes through it has the potential to create groups of teams going on 3 or 4 year cycles to net the same result. And instead of tanking one season to win the lotto they're essentially throwing 2 or 3 years away to get this result and then the teams that blow it are going to be in the dumps for another 2+ years while the rebuild traditionally.

It has the potential to be a very terrible thing if this ever gets repeated and yet if it succeeds it almost certainly will because it may be the only way to compete with these superteams. It's like the NBA is being turned into a local rec league by this.

 

[Superman]

The difference between the Celts and most certainly all the other teams of the past is that one team organization set up the roster either through dumb luck or skill, in this case you basically have the players dictating a lottery winner and it appears to be Miami by virture of their location and the fact that the state of Florida has no personal income tax. That is the worst thing possible that can happen to the competitive balance of the league.

I think people forget that there was reluctance on the part of Allen and Garnett to join the Celtics and that the Celtics had tried to win with a youth movement and gave up some decent players to make it happen rather than just coordinate a bunch of expirings to all land in the same year that was loaded with free agent talent. And they basically mortgaged their future for a 3 year window that appears to be rapidly closing. But if this goes through it has the potential to create groups of teams going on 3 or 4 year cycles to net the same result. And instead of tanking one season to win the lotto they're essentially throwing 2 or 3 years away to get this result and then the teams that blow it are going to be in the dumps for another 2+ years while the rebuild traditionally.

It has the potential to be a very terrible thing if this ever gets repeated and yet if it succeeds it almost certainly will because it may be the only way to compete with these superteams. It's like the NBA is being turned into a local rec league by this.

I think we're getting carried away here. We're talking about three free agents deciding that they want to play together. Not only is it a rare occurence for there to be such a deep free agent pool, it's also rare that one team has the cap space to sign three of them in one offseason. We usually see superteams created via trade, like with the Celtics in 2007, or the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, or these current Lakers. Houston tried to do this in '99 by signing Scottie Pippen, but it wasn't good enough.

That might be the way this ends up. I think the Heat would be the best team in the East if they land this trifecta, but they have to round their roster out and stay healthy, and the Three Amigos would have to develop enough chemistry to be able to play together. They're certainly not just buying a championship.

I don't really think it matters as much as everyone is saying it does. I think, if it even happens this way, that it won't be all that different from the Celtics trading for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and going from the Lottery to the championship in one season, or the Lakers trading for Pau Gasol and going from the 7 seed to the Finals in one season. It wouldn't be any worse than the Cavs keeping LeBron and doing a sign and trade for Chris Bosh. The teams that are in position to make big moves should be able to make big moves. The players with the freedom to choose where they want to play should be able to choose where they want to play. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is ruining the integrity of the NBA, as if there ever were any. Teams and players always do what's best for themselves. This is no different.

 

[Rain man]

First of all, Wade already has a ring and a Finals MVP.

Secondly, LeBron has spent the last seven years trying to win a championship essentially by himself, and realizes that he needs more help than the Cavs have been able to get him. He made it very clear two years ago what his intentions were this summer, so it's not like he's catching them off guard.

Third, Jordan had Pippen and a very good supporting cast; Bird had hall of famers (including Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, and Bill Walton, plus ancillary players like Danny Ainge, etc.); Olajuwan had Clyde Drexler, Sam Cassell, Vernon Maxwell, etc.; Shaq had Kobe; Kobe didn't win a damn thing until they got Pau Gasol, plus they have Fisher, Odom, Artest, etc. No one does it by themselves. No one.

Fourth, Bosh is a #2, and has apparently come to terms with that. Good for him, because that's the only way he'll ever win a ring.

I guess it is more a criticism of Lebron than anything else. I think he hurt himself and his standing as one of the greatest of all time (provided he goes to Miami as reported). Honestly, I don't know how it is possible to respect his decision from an elite basketball point of view. Respect him for going somewhere and possibly winning a lot of rings, and having disgusting skill, but don't EVER compare him to Jordan, Bird, and even Kobe, as far as greatest of all time discussions. he just doesn't have the killer drive, and this proves it.

The difference between all of your examples and Wade/LBJ teaming up is that Wade/LBJ are arguably the two best players in the league. I have no problem with Jordan teaming up with a star in Pippen, or Bird with McHale/Parish, or Kobe/Gasol, Malone/Stockton, Magic/Kareem, Pierce/Garnett/Allen, etc... Each of those scenarios was an elite player teaming up with a supporting star. Or several supporting stars teaming up together. You would have never seen Jordan grab Bird though, and you would have never seen Kobe go join Wade in Miami.

I wouldn't fault Wade for grabbing Bosh (who I agree is no more than a #2), or LBJ for grabbing Boozer or Stoudamire, or Kobe grabbing Gasol. That is on par with all of your above examples- 1 top 15 player all time grabbing an in the prime of his career All Star to team up and play ball with him. Jordan, Bird, Isiah, Kobe may have elite sidekicks, but it was clearly their team, and they would not have it any other way.

I have a problem with LBJ and Wade deciding they need each other. If Lebron was truly special, he would say "I see you DWade grabbing Chris Bosh, I see you Big three in Boston, I see you Kobe/Pau in LA, I see you big Dwight, and I am going to beat you all at your own game." I could get behind him going to Chicago, and saying, we are going to build a team around me, with Boozer, Noah, and Rose as a great supporting cast. Or I could see him going to NY and doing something with Amare. Or even staying in Cleveland and seeing if they can build a team there. But if he goes to Miami, he punted. Truly the cowards way out. If you can't beat them, join them, and don't even bother trying to beat them.

Plus, in nearly all of your examples, the front office paired the elite player with his sidekick. Jordan didn't leverage himself to get Pippen, Kobe didn't go crying like a baby to find Gasol, Bird didn't go to the Celtics because they had McHale. These were elite guys, who knew it was their team, and let the team build around them. But they were always the head of the team. Lebron is running away.

It just says a lot about Lebron. He could have gone to Chicago and LBJ/Rose/Boozer could have battled Wade/Bosh, Kobe/Pau, Garnett/Pierce/Allen, the Thunder, etc... for years to come. Instead, he doesn't even want the fight.

Instead, he will go to WADE's team, and will let WADE take the pressure as the go to guy in the 4th quarter.

By the way- I agree that Bosh is a #2, and so is Boozer/Amare. How crazy the money that these guys (who could never lead a team to a championship) are getting

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I will just say that more than anything it is the fact that we are all fans of a small market team with a young promising player that we just spent an entire season comparing to LBJ's rookie numbers and are all heavily emotionally invested in him as the key to our franshise success, this deal just makes it feel like his departure in 3 or 7 years will be inevitable. I mean hey, Reke's gonna be on team USA he could be bonding with his fellow young guns plotting how in 4 or 5 years they will do the same thing these 3 are alleged to have done.

 

[Superman]

I guess it is more a criticism of Lebron than anything else. I think he hurt himself and his standing as one of the greatest of all time (provided he goes to Miami as reported). Honestly, I don't know how it is possible to respect his decision from an elite basketball point of view. Respect him for going somewhere and possibly winning a lot of rings, and having disgusting skill, but don't EVER compare him to Jordan, Bird, and even Kobe, as far as greatest of all time discussions. he just doesn't have the killer drive, and this proves it.

The difference between all of your examples and Wade/LBJ teaming up is that Wade/LBJ are arguably the two best players in the league. I have no problem with Jordan teaming up with a star in Pippen, or Bird with McHale/Parish, or Kobe/Gasol, Malone/Stockton, Magic/Kareem, Pierce/Garnett/Allen, etc... Each of those scenarios was an elite player teaming up with a supporting star. Or several supporting stars teaming up together. You would have never seen Jordan grab Bird though, and you would have never seen Kobe go join Wade in Miami.

I wouldn't fault Wade for grabbing Bosh (who I agree is no more than a #2), or LBJ for grabbing Boozer or Stoudamire, or Kobe grabbing Gasol. That is on par with all of your above examples- 1 top 15 player all time grabbing an in the prime of his career All Star to team up and play ball with him. Jordan, Bird, Isiah, Kobe may have elite sidekicks, but it was clearly their team, and they would not have it any other way.

I have a problem with LBJ and Wade deciding they need each other. If Lebron was truly special, he would say "I see you DWade grabbing Chris Bosh, I see you Big three in Boston, I see you Kobe/Pau in LA, I see you big Dwight, and I am going to beat you all at your own game." I could get behind him going to Chicago, and saying, we are going to build a team around me, with Boozer, Noah, and Rose as a great supporting cast. Or I could see him going to NY and doing something with Amare. Or even staying in Cleveland and seeing if they can build a team there. But if he goes to Miami, he punted. Truly the cowards way out. If you can't beat them, join them, and don't even bother trying to beat them.

I understand the criticism. I can understand that it might hurt his legacy. But I don't think it's cowardly at all. I think it's smart, at least if his #1 objective is to win.

Plus, in nearly all of your examples, the front office paired the elite player with his sidekick. Jordan didn't leverage himself to get Pippen, Kobe didn't go crying like a baby to find Gasol, Bird didn't go to the Celtics because they had McHale. These were elite guys, who knew it was their team, and let the team build around them. But they were always the head of the team. Lebron is running away.

Jordan was unique, but he didn't have to leverage himself to get Pippen. The Bulls had Pippen in Jordan's fourth year. He was ready to play at a high level in Jordan's sixth year. This is going to be LeBron's eighth year. He gave Cleveland several chances to get it right.

As for Kobe, you must have a short memory. He held the Lakers hostage in the summer of '04, not signing until they agreed to move Shaq, and then he demanded a trade three years later because they refused to trade Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd. Crying like a baby is exactly how I would describe Kobe.

Bird didn't have to complain about his lot in life, because the Celtics were taking care of that already. McHale has been called the best offensive big man of the era. The Celtics won the title in Bird's second year.

Like LeBron has been quoted as saying, he doesn't want to be 31 with bad knees and no title. He sees how history treats Charles Barkley and Karl Malone and others who came up short. He might not be doing it the most admirable way, but if he wants to win, it's the best position he can put himself in.

It just says a lot about Lebron. He could have gone to Chicago and LBJ/Rose/Boozer could have battled Wade/Bosh, Kobe/Pau, Garnett/Pierce/Allen, the Thunder, etc... for years to come. Instead, he doesn't even want the fight.

Instead, he will go to WADE's team, and will let WADE take the pressure as the go to guy in the 4th quarter.

First, he's been fighting for 7 years. Took a bunch of scrubs to the Finals three years ago.

Secondly, you assume he's just going to sit back and let D-Wade put up all the game winners. I think that's silly. I watched Wade pour his heart out against the Celtics in that Game 4 this year. He's going to benefit from this pairing just as much as LeBron will.

By the way- I agree that Bosh is a #2, and so is Boozer/Amare. How crazy the money that these guys (who could never lead a team to a championship) are getting

Which is why there's a lockout coming.

 

[Superman]

I will just say that more than anything it is the fact that we are all fans of a small market team with a young promising player that we just spent an entire season comparing to LBJ's rookie numbers and are all heavily emotionally invested in him as the key to our franshise success, this deal just makes it feel like his departure in 3 or 7 years will be inevitable. I mean hey, Reke's gonna be on team USA he could be bonding with his fellow young guns plotting how in 4 or 5 years they will do the same thing these 3 are alleged to have done.

And then we can hate Reke the same way Cleveland fans are going to hate LeBron. But LeBron isn't going to be the first big name free agent to leave his team, and he ain't gonna be the last. We might lose Reke, but I'm hardly going to blame that on LeBron. We just better be sure to take care of business as best we can to make sure he has reason to stay.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

And then we can hate Reke the same way Cleveland fans are going to hate LeBron. But LeBron isn't going to be the first big name free agent to leave his team, and he ain't gonna be the last. We might lose Reke, but I'm hardly going to blame that on LeBron. We just better be sure to take care of business as best we can to make sure he has reason to stay.

Right, but if that becomes a regular occurence then all the small market teams may as well just pack up and fold and we can go back to a 20 team league where all the stars can play together. That wouldn't be so horrible, minus the part of me not having a team to root for. The NBA has good reason to make sure this kind of thing never happens again, I suspect the lockout will address that. In fact if this goes down I will actually hope for a lockout.

 

[Superman]

Right, but if that becomes a regular occurence then all the small market teams may as well just pack up and fold and we can go back to a 20 team league where all the stars can play together. That wouldn't be so horrible, minus the part of me not having a team to root for. The NBA has good reason to make sure this kind of thing never happens again, I suspect the lockout will address that. In fact if this goes down I will actually hope for a lockout.

I don't think you have to hope for a lockout. All signs (including $80 million for Rudy Gay, and $55 million for Brendan F. Haywood) indicate that there will be a lockout.

I understand what you're saying, but all hope isn't lost for small market teams, as long as they're run properly. The reason Miami is the frontrunner is because they blew their roster up and made cap space. We can still build a contender the way we've been building this team now, and we can still do trades for star players, etc. Life isn't over just because Cleveland might lose their star.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Life isn't over just because Cleveland might lose their star.

That isn't the problem, if he goes to Chicago I don't really care. I do think he should stay in Cleveland, but that's just my old-school backwards non-modern thinking where a player becomes synonymous with his city. It's the 3 players possibly deciding several years ago while still under contract to separate teams that they are going to play together and it basically coming down to which city is sexiest with the most perks. Maybe because I've watched friendships destroyed in local rec leagues over the same kind of thing that it hits extra close to home for me when you feel like you can't compete unless you're in the clique. Sacramento is never going to be in the cool kid's clique. We were close but the league was playing by different rules then.

Anyhow I am still holding out hope that LeBron stays in Cleveland. In fact this whole Mike Miller with a deadline right before the announcement thing leads me to believe that the deal for LeBron might not be quite worked out just yet.

 

[Superman]

That isn't the problem, if he goes to Chicago I don't really care. I do think he should stay in Cleveland, but that's just my old-school backwards non-modern thinking where a player becomes synonymous with his city. It's the 3 players possibly deciding several years ago while still under contract to separate teams that they are going to play together and it basically coming down to which city is sexiest with the most perks. Maybe because I've watched friendships destroyed in local rec leagues over the same kind of thing that it hits extra close to home for me when you feel like you can't compete unless you're in the clique. Sacramento is never going to be in the cool kid's clique. We were close but the league was playing by different rules then.

Anyhow I am still holding out hope that LeBron stays in Cleveland. In fact this whole Mike Miller with a deadline right before the announcement thing leads me to believe that the deal for LeBron might not be quite worked out just yet.

I think it would be better for us as fans if LeBron does leave, especially if he goes to Chicago. Puts pressure on our front office to work their butts off and build a winner, and quick, so we don't lose our cornerstone. And then there's still guys like Kevin Durant who quietly sign five year extensions because they want to stay with the team that drafted them, so there's some hope there also.

The NBA fan/Laker hater in me wants to see LeBron go to Miami, because that would set up an epic Finals matchup between the Heat and Lakers, and I think the Heat could win. The LeBron fan in me wants to see him stay in Cleveland and win a title and shut everyone up. As a Kings fan, I just want us to keep doing what we've been doing and work our way back into contention over these next two or three years.

As for the rec league thing, the NBA has rules that say that any team that wants to sign a free agent has to have the cap space to do so. If Miami sold out for the last two years to make a run at this triumverate, then I don't have a problem with it. Unless D-Wade went back to Pat Riley in 2008 and told him that he had verbal commitments from Bosh and LeBron to come to Miami in 2010, it's all legit. If your team wants to be a player in the next free agent bonanza, they need to create cap space.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

As for the rec league thing, the NBA has rules that say that any team that wants to sign a free agent has to have the cap space to do so. If Miami sold out for the last two years to make a run at this triumverate, then I don't have a problem with it. Unless D-Wade went back to Pat Riley in 2008 and told him that he had verbal commitments from Bosh and LeBron to come to Miami in 2010, it's all legit. If your team wants to be a player in the next free agent bonanza, they need to create cap space.

Right, there are no rules against it, and perhaps it is fortunate timing. It could be as simple as forbidding a team from signing more than 2 max players or only allowing one max contract per season in the next CBA. I'm sure the player's association probably wouldn't fight that too hard if it prevents 85% of the league from playing for the vet minimum while 3 guys on each roster are maxed out.

They should also consider addressing the local tax law situation league wide in the same way they have made an exception allowing Toronto to provide a signing bonus that doesn't apply to the cap to offset Canadian taxes.

 

[Bricklayer]

LeBron's team won 60+ games the past couple of seasons. They did not close the deal, but if the standard is now that you absolutely have to have won a title, or hopefully multiple titles, if you want to keep one of these guys as a small market team...

I think this lockout is stupid, but one thing I am going to email to the league and fully support is the idea of an NFL style franchise player tag so that small market teams can't get their hearts ripped out just for being small market teams, and the league's superstars can't be off plotting on how to manipulate the process and choose who gets to be the next champion. You can bump the salary of a franchise tagged player up high enough to compensate him for being pinned (higher even than max), but in basketball of all sports these guys are too critical to allow the development of a class of "have not" franchises who are always in danger of losing their top guys. I can accept Bosh to some degree because his franchise just did not build a winner around him (he of course being part of that). But LeBron leaving Cleveland would be a lot like Shaq abandoning Orlando after they made the Finals. Worse really, because its his hometown. If the hometown hero, being paid max, having reached the Finals and won 60+ games back to back, nbamed 2x MVP and worshipped in town leaves them...it effectively means that the Cleveland Cavaliers can never have the best player in basketball through his prime. They are second class citizens.

 

[Superman]

LeBron's team won 60+ games the past couple of seasons. They did not close the deal, but if the standard is now that you absolutely have to have won a title, or hopefully multiple titles, if you want to keep one of these guys as a small market team...

I think this lockout is stupid, but one thing I am going to email to the league and fully support is the idea of an NFL style franchise player tag so that small market teams can't get their hearts ripped out just for being small market teams, and the league's superstars can't be off plotign on how to manipulate the process and choose who gets to be the next champion.

If the NBA ownership insists on a franchise tag or anything of the sort, there will definitely be a lockout, and that will be a huge sticking point. Even though it serves a purpose, every player that's ever been franchise tagged in the NFL hated it. And in basketball, I don't think you want one player on your team, particularly your best player, hanging around or threatening to hold out because he doesn't like the contract he's been locked into against his will. It's a totally one-sided tool, it generates contention among NFL teams, and I don't see the NBA fooling around with it. Edit: ... Unless using the tag requires a maximum term/pay contract, of course.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The franchise tag is such a sour deal in the NFL because it is only a one year deal and injuries that can devastate your earning potential are a weekly occurence in the NFL. In the NBA it might actually work.

 

[Bricklayer]

If the NBA ownership insists on a franchise tag or anything of the sort, there will definitely be a lockout, and that will be a huge sticking point. Even though it serves a purpose, every player that's ever been franchise tagged in the NFL hated it. And in basketball, I don't think you want one player on your team, particularly your best player, hanging around or threatening to hold out because he doesn't like the contract he's been locked into against his will. It's a totally one-sided tool, it generates contention among NFL teams, and I don't see the NBA fooling around with it. Edit: ... Unless using the tag requires a maximum term/pay contract, of course.

It is a totally onesided tool. But since the other way to accomplish the same goal is to make all free agents restricted, the franchise tag is a much more limited one sided tool. And note given that the owners are talking far more extensive and radical NFL style stuff like hard caps and non-guaranteed contracts, going for a fracnhise player tag is comparatively a gimme. If I was on the owner's team and wanted to play it, I would pair it with a concession and market it to the rank and file of the player's union who would never be effected. Offer to give 95% of the players something for a restriction on the top 5%. Divide and conquer.

Contention sucks, but what is going on here could be disaster for competitive balance if it is repeated in the future. In basketball of all sports the decisions these 25 year old kids are making are absolutely dictating the entire fate of a whole swath of franchises for the next 5 years of their existences.

Other alternatives include an NFL style compensatory pick system of some sort, although that is still only offering to bandage the wound after you let someone get shot.

 

[Bricklayer]

The franchise tag is such a sour deal in the NFL because it is only a one year deal and injuries that can devastate your earning potential are a weekly occurence in the NFL. In the NBA it might actually work.

Franchise player tag, NBA style:

let's say in the upcoming CBA they limit contracts to 5 years

so, teams are allowed to offer a "franchise player contract" to their own free agents. Said contract cannot be turned down, and lasts for the maximum years (5) at 10% over the otherwise maximum salary. This would make this an effective tool in dealing with free agents up to about age 30 or so (who would just be slowing down at 35 by the end). Older guys in their early 30s might no longer draw the tag since it requires a 5 year committment, and would be freeer to go ring chase for instance. If the owners somehow do get some sort of waiver provision into the CBA to let them escape bad contracts to guys who get hurt, you could except franchise contracts so that they would be fully guaranteed. Along with the 10% extra money, might be enough that the player so tagged might not be entirely despondent and would represent enough of an investment that teams would have to think about it rather than tossing it around willy nilly.

teams could only have one franchise player contract on their team at one time. Could be enough that guys like Reke and Boogie might prefer to be tagged franchise guys than have to settle for just a max deal as the #2 guy.

 

[Superman]

Franchise player tag, NBA style:

let's say in the upcoming CBA they limit contracts to 5 years

so, teams are allowed to offer a "franchise player contract" to their own free agents. Said contract cannot be turned down, and lasts for the maximum years (5) at 10% over the otherwise maximum salary. This would make this an effective tool in dealing with free agents up to about age 30 or so (who would just be slowing down at 35 by the end). Older guys in their early 30s might no longer draw the tag since it requires a 5 year committment, and would be freeer to go ring chase for instance. If the owners somehow do get some sort of waiver provision into the CBA to let them escape bad contracts to guys who get hurt, you could except franchise contracts so that they would be fully guaranteed. Along with the 10% extra money, might be enough that the player so tagged might not be entirely despondent and would represent enough of an investment that teams would have to think about it rather than tossing it around willy nilly.

teams could only have one franchise player contract on their team at one time. Could be enough that guys like Reke and Boogie might prefer to be tagged franchise guys than have to settle for just a max deal as the #2 guy.

Making it a long term contract rather than a one year, non guaranteed deal makes it a much more viable tool, one with risks and rewards for both sides. Perhaps a contingency with a player option after three years, or a clause that a player can only be franchised once in his career.

 

[Superman]

On compensatory picks, those are a bigger deal in the NFL where every team relies on rookies to contribute every season, in one capacity or another. But honestly, giving a team extra second round picks isn't going to make up for said team losing their star player, or even a major roleplayer. And I think giving up extra first rounders would be shot down.

 

[Bricklayer]

On compensatory picks, those are a bigger deal in the NFL where every team relies on rookies to contribute every season, in one capacity or another. But honestly, giving a team extra second round picks isn't going to make up for said team losing their star player, or even a major roleplayer. And I think giving up extra first rounders would be shot down.

Not necessarily. All it takes is a little cleverness.

Rule: if you formally (and would have to be a verification procedure) offer a max contract to one of your players, and he leaves anyway, you are awarded a spare pick in the lottery ala an expansion team. Because that's what you have just been knocked back to once your heart rips itself out and goes elsewhere. With the max contract provision, it would have to be a legit major guy -- if you tried to offer a lesser player a max deal just so you would get a pick if he left, he would of course likely stay at an incredible price. Of course downside is it would create even more gamesmanship of agents trying to get lesser guys bumped into max range by threatening to have their clients leave, thus hoping that teams panic into offering a max deal so that they can get compensated with the pick.

 

[Larry89]

It would be awesome to have cameras of crowds in Cle,Chi,NY,Miami,LA world cup style and see reactions lol

 

[Larry89]

Super team

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

James decides he doesn't want to compete, he wants to win.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I understand the criticism. I can understand that it might hurt his legacy. But I don't think it's cowardly at all. I think it's smart, at least if his #1 objective is to win.



Jordan was unique, but he didn't have to leverage himself to get Pippen. The Bulls had Pippen in Jordan's fourth year. He was ready to play at a high level in Jordan's sixth year. This is going to be LeBron's eighth year. He gave Cleveland several chances to get it right.

As for Kobe, you must have a short memory. He held the Lakers hostage in the summer of '04, not signing until they agreed to move Shaq, and then he demanded a trade three years later because they refused to trade Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd. Crying like a baby is exactly how I would describe Kobe.

Bird didn't have to complain about his lot in life, because the Celtics were taking care of that already. McHale has been called the best offensive big man of the era. The Celtics won the title in Bird's second year.

Like LeBron has been quoted as saying, he doesn't want to be 31 with bad knees and no title. He sees how history treats Charles Barkley and Karl Malone and others who came up short. He might not be doing it the most admirable way, but if he wants to win, it's the best position he can put himself in.



First, he's been fighting for 7 years. Took a bunch of scrubs to the Finals three years ago.

Secondly, you assume he's just going to sit back and let D-Wade put up all the game winners. I think that's silly. I watched Wade pour his heart out against the Celtics in that Game 4 this year. He's going to benefit from this pairing just as much as LeBron will.



Which is why there's a lockout coming.

This is a great post. And I really want to agree with you. But while Kobe certainly flirted very publicly with the Bulls and the Clippers, he sure as heck didn't have a 1-hour TV spectacle to announce his decison.

Second, the image I can't get out of my head is LeBron in the playoffs this year against the Celtics. Maybe it's me, but he just looked like he quit out there. Like his mind was elsewhere, looking forward to the future and the impending free agency. Now, he bolts for Miami to join Wade and Bosh. On some level, I don't feel bad for Cleveland because they did have 7 years to get it done, and they did get close in 2007. But this year's playoffs really soured my opinion of LeBron, and this specatle of the summer has only made it worse.