When LeBron James retires....

[FrenchCanadianKING]

What kind of stats and awards do you think King James will have garnered when he decides to hang' em up?

How many rings?
How many MVP awards?
How many first team all-NBA awards?
What position on the all-time scoring list?
Will he get bored by dominating the league and decide to retire prematurely like MJ did the first time around?
Will he be in the top 10 of the greatest players of all-time? top 5? top 3?
What will his overall legacy and impact on the game be?

I know it's very early and a lot can happen in the next decade or so, but isnt that the fun of it? If he would be in his prime it would be easier to predict but since hes a few years from hitting his peak, it just makes it that much harder. The beauty about this is that nobody is right or wrong as of right now. Only time will tell...

 

[hoopsfan]

"Will he get bored by dominating the league and decide to retire prematurely like MJ did the first time around?"

You really believe that???

 

[DocHolliday]

Lebron is a good player, but how is he dominating the league. Honestly all the hype around him is about to become just that if he doesn't turn it up a notch.

Lebron needs to be on a better team or the team he is on needs to get better. He's not a selfish Kobe type player where he's going to jack up 40 shots and drop 51 on you. He's a team player, he just needs a better team.

 

[SLAB]

Lebron is a good player, but how is he dominating the league. Honestly all the hype around him is about to become just that if he doesn't turn it up a notch.

Lebron needs to be on a better team or the team he is on needs to get better. He's not a selfish Kobe type player where he's going to jack up 40 shots and drop 51 on you. He's a team player, he just needs a better team.

Well, he's taken this team that apparently isn't very good and has led them to nearly a 50 win season.

He is 21 and is averaging 30, 7, and 7.

He's capable of taking any game over at any given time.

HE may not be dominating the league, but he is damn near close to it.

 

[FrenchCanadianKING]

"Will he get bored by dominating the league and decide to retire prematurely like MJ did the first time around?"

You really believe that???

In the Ultimate Jordan DVD, he said that back in 93 he had lost interest in the game because there was simply nothing left for him to achieve. He won MVP awards, Defensive player of the year, 3 straight rings. He said that his talent has always been fueled by his desire to be the best and improve. And there was nothing left for him to accomplish. He also stated that he talked to Phil Jackson and asked him something in the lines of, "If you find me a challenge, I will stay. Or else I will retire. Find me something to fight for and accomplish. I need to be motivated so it can fuel my game". Phil then said something like:" I can't think of any, you've done it all".

Which is why he went to play Baseball. It was a challenge for him.

 

[acisking]

^^Perhaps...but more significantly, his father who always wanted him to play baseball was murdered and the culprit took one of Jordan's championship rings that he had given his father. So in Jordan's mind, it was his decision to play basketball that inadvertently led to his father's death. That, more than anything else, was the catalyst for the retirement and pursuit of baseball that followed.

 

[FrenchCanadianKING]

^^Perhaps. Maybe it was a combination of both too. I do remember him saying something about his dad and baseball in the DVD though. Oh well, the only person that can truly answer this question is Jordan himself.

Back to Lebron...

 

[LoungeLizard]

Lebron is a good player, but how is he dominating the league. Honestly all the hype around him is about to become just that if he doesn't turn it up a notch.

Lebron needs to be on a better team or the team he is on needs to get better. He's not a selfish Kobe type player where he's going to jack up 40 shots and drop 51 on you. He's a team player, he just needs a better team.

Only two other players in NBA history have done what LeBron is going to do this year: 30+ ppg 7+rpg 7+apg. Their names are Michael Jordan, and Oscar Robertson. Pretty damn good company, I would qualify Lebron as an "elite" type player right now.

In just his third year he has taken the CAVS to one of the top 4 teams in the East. (granted the East is pathetic) but the CAVS.

I agree that the hype was overblown at the start, but IMO the hype is starting to be justified. I am interested to see how he performs in the playoffs. Should be fun.

 

[VF21]

The real proof will be in the long run.

There are so many variables that could determine his fate that this is just a guessing game IMHO.

 

[vladetomiller]

Lebron is a good player, but nowhere near the hype that is getting created. If he is all that and more his team wouldnt be hovering around a 50 game win mark in a pathetic division and conference where sub 500 teams will get into the playoffs.

The refs also show him lots of love which would mean that he might become the next jordan if he behaves. Stern would love to make him the next best thing to happen to the nba and espn is already helping that cause.

 

[Fillmoe]

you never know what can happen...


look at the careers of penny hardaway and grant hill....

 

[BMiller52]

Lebron is a good player, but nowhere near the hype that is getting created. If he is all that and more his team wouldnt be hovering around a 50 game win mark in a pathetic division and conference where sub 500 teams will get into the playoffs.

The refs also show him lots of love which would mean that he might become the next jordan if he behaves. Stern would love to make him the next best thing to happen to the nba and espn is already helping that cause.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he in the same conference as Indy and Detroit? How is that pathetic? When they play well indiana's a really good team and earlier the pistons had a shot at 70. He's not just hype, he's average 30/7/7 on a great %. His supporting cast isn't that great, Hughes has been out half the year, Z has been out a bit, Marshall and Jones have sucked if you actually watch them. Eric Snow isn't exactly a top point guard either. Drew Gooden is a good rebounder but that's it and Varejao missed a bunch of games too. He has that team almost at 50 wins.

 

[venom_7]

Lebron is a good player, but nowhere near the hype that is getting created. If he is all that and more his team wouldnt be hovering around a 50 game win mark in a pathetic division and conference where sub 500 teams will get into the playoffs.

The refs also show him lots of love which would mean that he might become the next jordan if he behaves. Stern would love to make him the next best thing to happen to the nba and espn is already helping that cause.

umm in his 'pathetic' division, all 5 teams will probably make the playoffs. Detroit, Cleveland, Indy, Milwaukee, and Chicago. Real pathetic there. You would have a better argument if you said a pathetic conference. The refs show alot of players love, and the man has skill. Quit trying to take it away from him. Brons worth 35 wins to his team. minimum.

 

[Gargamel]

What kind of stats and awards do you think King James will have garnered when he decides to hang' em up?

Will he get bored by dominating the league and decide to retire prematurely like MJ did the first time around?

Hard to say before his first playoff game. Hard to say playing for a franchise located in Cleveland. Will he have the teammates necessary to win rings? Will there always be a team like Detroit standing in his way?

 

[vladetomiller]

Its a sorry conference and a pathetic division that cleveland plays in. Though all the teams in division (Mil, Ind and Chi) could make it to the playoffs still they are not even above .500. There are only 4 teams above 500 and cleveland is one of them.

Interestingly people say that Bron makes his teammates better and at the same time say that he doesnt have a goos upporting cast when it comes the other way around. Interestingly enough all his teammates have had better numbers or equal when they were playing without bron. Damon Jones was great last year and this year he sucks, but offcourse Bron makes his teammates better. Drew Gooden played better without Bron yet Bron makes his teammates better.

Cleveland has won a total of 48 games and if bron is worth 35 games by his own then cleveland would have won 13 without him, even the pathetic knicks or portland have won better than that. People dont give enough credit to Z as much as he deserves, if you look at their games it all goes through Z and its that inside presence that makes it easier for the rest of the team. Bron is good but not great yet inspite of the love that the refs show him.

 

[BMiller52]

That is a lot of hate on Lebron. Lebron IS worth like 30 wins to his team. Damon Jones got better looks from Shaq(true) but it was also a contract year. All Marshall does is brick 3s even though Bron gets him good shots. Hughes has been out over half the year. Drew Gooden is a moron and that doesn't really have a legit shot blocker(Z might count, I haven't checked his numbers). They've had a lot of injuries and Bron has them at almost 50 wins.

 

[Padrino]

when lebron retires?



why don't we just let history play itself out. he's gotta long ways to go...

 

[Bricklayer]

Most of the ridiculous hating on LeBron comes from Kobe jockers.

Thing is, LeBron might ALREADY be better. Let alone in a few more years.

We'll have to wait to see how injuries go and whatnot. As it is, he's a serious MVP candidate at 20-21 putting up better numbers than anyone has ever put up before at his age.

31.6ppg (.480 FG% .335 3pt% .739 FT%) 7.1reb 6.6ast 1.6stl 0.8blk 3.3TO

compare that to Kobe:

35.3pts (.450 FG% .348 3pt% .848 FT%) 5.3reb 4.5ast 1.8stl 0.4blk 3.2TO


If LeBron never gets one bit better, he's a surefire first ballot HOF player. If he continues to improve...he's among the best ever. If he ups his three point shooting and free throwing, he's completely unstoppable. As he's powered down the stretch he's emerged as an MVP candidate. And now he gets to go to the playoffs. If he comes up big he begins to enter the area of legend.

Best part is he does it with class. LeBron, Wade, Howard...the NBA may be poised for a new Golden Era as a whole pack of classy, mature superstar kids has suddenly flooded the league to maybe duplicate the halcyon days of the Jordan era.

 

[vladetomiller]

That is a lot of hate on Lebron. Lebron IS worth like 30 wins to his team. Damon Jones got better looks from Shaq(true) but it was also a contract year. All Marshall does is brick 3s even though Bron gets him good shots. Hughes has been out over half the year. Drew Gooden is a moron and that doesn't really have a legit shot blocker(Z might count, I haven't checked his numbers). They've had a lot of injuries and Bron has them at almost 50 wins.

Thats not hate, thats reality. I accept that Bron is a good / very good player and I have maintained that all along.

LOL - The same Marshal/jones/gooden were good before this and now they are not, and for three players its their own fault for not performing better than what they did maybe a year ago. Then how do you say that bron makes his teammates better, did we assume that these players were going to be worse and since they are just bad bron has made them better.

Most fans here watch kings closely and observe the mistakes the refs make against the kings, I watch all games observing the mistakes the refs make on both sides, and I do feel that bron always gets love from the refs. That makes a huge difference to his points total and shooting %, they just make it easier for him to be that extra good.

By the way I feel that melo is better than bron, better all around game and shows that he has talent by making shots that count. bron has a total of what two last posession shots to his credit in all of 3 years though he has the ball invariably in his hands. Thats the time when refs dont bail you out and he has shown what he can do in those situations.

 

[Padrino]

Thats not hate, thats reality. I accept that Bron is a good / very good player and I have maintained that all along.

LOL - The same Marshal/jones/gooden were good before this and now they are not, and for three players its their own fault for not performing better than what they did maybe a year ago. Then how do you say that bron makes his teammates better, did we assume that these players were going to be worse and since they are just bad bron has made them better.

Most fans here watch kings closely and observe the mistakes the refs make against the kings, I watch all games observing the mistakes the refs make on both sides, and I do feel that bron always gets love from the refs. That makes a huge difference to his points total and shooting %, they just make it easier for him to be that extra good.

By the way I feel that melo is better than bron, better all around game and shows that he has talent by making shots that count. bron has a total of what two last posession shots to his credit in all of 3 years though he has the ball invariably in his hands. Thats the time when refs dont bail you out and he has shown what he can do in those situations.

my prediction is that people will be eating words like these in a coupla years. he's in his third year in the nba, and he's a leading mvp candidate. when people talk mvp this season, they talk about kobe bryant, steve nash, and lebron james. dirk nowitzki and dwayne wade have popped up in talks as well, but i think they're outside shots, though both have had stellar seasons. it really comes down to bryant, nash, and james, imo. bryant's got ten years experience in the nba. nash has eight. lebron is at or above both of those guys skill levels at less than three years experience in the nba. he's a marvel among men.

circumstances have left lebron out of the playoffs the first two seasons of his career, and his team hasn't played all that great this season, cuz they're just not that good apart from lebron. people need to open they're friggin eyes. drew gooden? zydrunas ilgauskas? donyell marshall? damon jones? these guys may be solid role players in some aspects of the game, but they are hardly the "elite" of the nba. larry hughes was supposed to be james' sidekick, but he's been injured for the better portion of this near-complete season. i believe lebron does make his teammates better, but you're not gonna make a guy like damon jones that much better. the way you assist in making jones or marshall better is setting them up for open shots. lebron does that. you make big z better by dumping it to him in the hole and being prepared for a kick-out when he gets doubled. "making your teammates better" isn't always about numbers. its about playing smart basketball and doing the things necessary so that the team flourishes. lebron, in his third nba season, is doing that. no, he doesn't do it perfectly, and its ludicrous to expect him to. he's 22 years old!!! he's got a lot of room for growth, and that's scary considering he's already averaging 31.6 points per game on 48% shooting this season, all to go along with 6.6 assists and 6.6 rebounds per game.

 

[zip95843]

Frankly, I don't see how James soooo much better than the rest. The numbers are nothing if you look at it - he is allowed to have them. Do you know many 20-years players that play 42 minutes per game (leading the team!), allowed to have 23 shots per game (leading the team!) and on top of that makes 10 FT per game? I don't. And I bet if you allow the same ballhoging for Carmello (or even Kevin Martin in our team, because he got about the same percentage) they will produce similar numbers as LeBron.

So stop throwing his numbers in the face of opponents. Because of the hype, he is simply allowed to have them. Not as the rest of the young players. For all these three years I didn't see how James better than anybody else. Yes, if you play that much minutes and ballhoging that much then it's no brainer that you'd get these numbers.

All imho.

 

[FrenchCanadianKING]

my prediction is that people will be eating words like these in a coupla years. he's in his third year in the nba, and he's a leading mvp candidate. when people talk mvp this season, they talk about kobe bryant, steve nash, and lebron james. dirk nowitzki and dwayne wade have popped up in talks as well, but i think they're outside shots, though both have had stellar seasons. it really comes down to bryant, nash, and james, imo. bryant's got ten years experience in the nba. nash has eight. lebron is at or above both of those guys skill levels at less than three years experience in the nba. he's a marvel among men.
.

WORD.

Remember, he's only 21 years old! If he stops improving right now he's a first ballot HOF and a 10 time all-star by the time he retires. But at 21 and more than half a decade before he does hit his prime, chances are he WILL get better, scarely enough.He just barely turned into a man. Some may argue that he's not even one yet. He's ahead of MJ at the same age and like Bricklayer previously said, he might already be better than Kobe who was not nearly this good at the same age.

Note: This post was edited to remove a reference to "haters." Let's keep it civil and NOT resort to the use of "hater," etc. -- the mods

 

[VF21]

zip95843 -

Whoa.

You know I wasn't sold on LeBron when he first came into the league. I didn't think he could possibly live up to the hype...

I was wrong.

I don't know how many times you've watched him, zip, but you cannot deny that he is truly a force to be reckoned with. He's NOT a ballhog and he's playing minutes because he can handle them and is thriving on them.

I don't know what you have against LBJ, but it's not about the hype. He wasn't the one who made all the comments, but he's the one who's proven them to be true.

The young men deserves a LOT of respect for what he's already accomplished. On a better team he would be rewriting the record books on a daily basis.

 

[zip95843]

Whoa.

You know I wasn't sold on LeBron when he first came into the league. I didn't think he could possibly live up to the hype...

I was wrong.

I don't know how many times you've watched him, zip, but you cannot deny that he is truly a force to be reckoned with. He's NOT a ballhog and he's playing minutes because he can handle them and is thriving on them.

I don't know what you have against LBJ, but it's not about the hype. He wasn't the one who made all the comments, but he's the one who's proven them to be true.

The young men deserves a LOT of respect for what he's already accomplished. On a better team he would be rewriting the record books on a daily basis.

I'm still seeing it as hype, VF.

Again, my point is that if you allow Kevin Martin to have the same minutes and the same number of shots and give hime three years "to develop" than he'd get the same numbers.

It's all hype. Not many young players allowed to have so many minutes and not many teams were built around 18-years boy.

If you get the preferencial treatment from the media and coaches - yes, I would say the majority of the players would thrive on that.

I wouldn't deny that he is a very good player. But the better than the rest? I don't know. I'm still not sold on him. In my mind he is about Tracy McGrady type of player - good, but you wouldn't bank on him.

Besides, on better team, he would have polished the bench more than right now. And wouldn't have much better numbers.

 

[VF21]

We'll have to agree to disagree then, zip. You may not be sold on him but I have to suspect there's something else at work here.

Peace.

 

[FrenchCanadianKING]

Again, my point is that if you allow Kevin Martin to have the same minutes and the same number of shots and give hime three years "to develop" than he'd get the same numbers.

You have got to be kidding! No offense but I have rarely heard something as crazy as this.

Hey Petrie, grab the phone and dial Danny Ferry's number and see what he thinks of Zip's deal!

WOW.... i still cant believe it

 

[zip95843]

You have got to be kidding! No offense but I have rarely heard something as crazy as this.

Hey Petrie, grab the phone and dial Danny Ferry's number and see what he thinks of Zip's opinion

I've already got a call from Petrie. He thinks very highly of my opinion. Thank you.

 

[Mad D]

I don't know how you call the most unselfish, straight out of highschool player who already puts up numbers worthy of being in the same class of Jordan, Bird, and Magic, overhyped.

 

[zip95843]

You have got to be kidding! No offense but I have rarely heard something as crazy as this.

Hmm let's see:

Kevin Martin has 47.8 FG%, but plays only 20 minutes. Also, he has 85 FT%.

Let's take LeBron's minutes and shots and apply them to Martin. Shall we? I've got about 28 PPG. Isn't it similar to LeBron's ? Except rebounds and assists of course. But if you'd allowed to play Martin 42 minutes per game and constantly put the ball in his hand - why not?

 

[VF21]

Okay, that's enough. I tried showing patience but this is about the dumbest thing ever posted on this - or any other - message board.

Whatever personal little problems you may have with LeBron James, zip, you're now well into the realm of ludicrosity.

Kevin Martin is a wonderful young man who has a bright future in the NBA ahead of him. What you're doing, however, is sad and ridiculous. Kevin isn't Lebron James. To continue to use him as an example to try and show your player hatred is only going to get people started taking potshots at him. It isn't fair to him...

Whatever personal vendetta you have against Lebron James stops right now.