When LeBron James retires....

[Mad D]

Hmm let's see:

Kevin Martin has 47.8 FG%, but plays only 20 minutes. Also, he has 85 FT%.

Let's take LeBron's minutes and shots and apply them to Martin. Shall we? I've got about 28 PPG. Isn't it similar to LeBron's ? Except rebounds and assists of course. But if you'd allowed to play Martin 42 minutes per game and constantly put the ball in his hand - why not?

Ok. Now lets change it up some more:

Replace Lebron into the Kings system, and that gives him at least 4 to 5 more open shots due to the system and his numbers and percentages should increase. See how ridiculous it sounds. You can't set up a scenario in things like that, by saying lets replace X with Y and give the ball to him 20 plus a game. Who knows, Martin may put up better scoring numbers or he might put up Jerry Stackhouse-like percentages when he was given 20+ shots a game while he was with Detroit.

Scoring is not what makes Lebron who he is, it's just part of his game. I don't like Lebron, but I at least respect what he can do as a 21 year old kid.

 

[zip95843]

Whatever personal vendetta you have against Lebron James stops right now.

VF, I don't have any vendetta against LeBron. If you noticed, I wrote that he is a very good player.

What I disagree with is that he is the best there is or he is something of a god-like figure in the basketball.

Also, I don't agree with that notion when people use his numbers to show how awesome he is. I used Kevin's number to show that this doesn't mean much in prespective.

But since the subject seams touchy for you, because it's personal for you or otherwise, I agree to stop it.

 

[zip95843]

Replace Lebron into the Kings system, and that gives him at least 4 to 5 more open shots due to the system and his numbers and percentages should increase.

That is the statement which holds no water. Kings are making 79 shots per game. Cleveland - 78. How is it you came up with additional 4-5 shots? Reducing shots from other playes I suppose?

VF - it was the last. I promise!!!!

 

[VF21]

If you want to continue, feel free to do so. My objections are twofold:

1. I don't want to see Kevin become the target of people who are determined to shoot down your "logic."

2. This just seems to be some kind of anti-LBJ stance that doesn't - to me - have any kind of validity. The numbers argument doesn't make sense.

My assumption was if you were posting this type of thing, there had to be some kind of underlying reason. I was faced with two possibilities:

1. Some kind of personal situation against LBJ.

2. You're bored and wanted to stir things up.

I assumed the first, although I figured the second was possible.

I honestly just cannot follow your rationale or logic in this. I've seen LBJ play in person and he is going to be one of the best ever. AND he's a wonderful young man who seems to have his head on straight. He's an asset to the game of basketball and I think you're taking potshots at him without validity.

Having said all that, if you all want to continue this "discussion," feel free to do so - keeping in mind the rules of the board.

 

[Mad D]

That is the statement which holds no water.Kings are making 79 shots per game. Cleveland - 78. How is it you came up with additional 4-5 shots? Reducing shots from other playes I suppose?

VF - it was the last. I promise!!!!

Reread the postand think about it. I said additional open shots, as in wide open and not needing to create for himself, but that wasn't the point.

And that post was suppose to 'hold no water' because it was doing something similar to your post because you can't create scenarios like that and know that the player can create at the same efficiency. There is such a thing of optimum output where efficiency peaks and fails to produce at the same level.

 

[atxrocker]

im so tired of this Lebron is the friggin second coming stuff.. hes not. he is a great player, obviously very talented. payed hansomely for his services. unprecedented amounts of hype. will he ever FULLY live up to the hype he has received? doubt it. i just dont see him going down in history as one of the greats. he needs to prove he can be a perennial winner first, which he clearly hasn't.

 

[VF21]

He hasn't proven he can be a perennial winner? He's 21 bleeping years old.

 

[Mad D]

im so tired of this Lebron is the friggin second coming stuff.. hes not.

I stopped thinkng like that (second coming stuff) because after I saw his game, he's not a Jordan (assuming thats what many thought thats what he would be). Maybe thats why I'm not hatin' on him so much anymore.

Everybody chooses to hate hype, but hype chose Lebron and it's not his fault. It's not like Jordan or Kobe won anything until at least their 5th years.

 

[zip95843]

1. I don't want to see Kevin become the target of people who are determined to shoot down your "logic."

I could have used Carmello's numbers as example. I just used Kevin's. No other meanings here.

2. This just seems to be some kind of anti-LBJ stance that doesn't - to me - have any kind of validity. The numbers argument doesn't make sense.

Wow, hold on. So using numbers to show how good somebody is - that makes sense. But using numbers to show that it's not true - that doesn't? I'm lost here.

1. Some kind of personal situation against LBJ.

No personal issues here. I'm agruing about hype he has been put through.

I honestly just cannot follow your rationale or logic in this. I've seen LBJ play in person and he is going to be one of the best ever. AND he's a wonderful young man who seems to have his head on straight.

No arguments here. As I said above - he is very good player.

He's an asset to the game of basketball and I think you're taking potshots at him without validity.

If you call arguing that he is "the best ever" "taking poshots" - then nothing I can do about it...

 

[atxrocker]

so.. he should be considered one of the greats based off what MIGHT happen in the future? he hasn't proven his stat lines translate to anything of significance yet.. it will be interesting to see how his career develops. im not the biggest fan (though I admit his awesome talent) but honestly feel like to be in the same category as Jordan or even Kobe he needs to perform as a leader and winner and bring his ball club some rings.

 

[VF21]

So if you don't earn your club a ring, you aren't a great player? Interesting. Check the Hall of Fame. Not all great player win championships.

zip - Your number argument doesn't make any sense to me. I think you're simply trying to find some way - any way - to object to the hype LBJ has received.

The HYPE isn't his fault. He's come into the league - onto a horrible team because of the lottery system - and he's already doing things the vast majority of NBA players only dream of.

Sorry, but I don't argue when the topic is - at least to me - so ridiculous as to be laughable. That's why I've bowed out.

 

[kingsfannPDX]

im so tired of this Lebron is the friggin second coming stuff.. hes not. he is a great player, obviously very talented. payed hansomely for his services. unprecedented amounts of hype. will he ever FULLY live up to the hype he has received? doubt it. i just dont see him going down in history as one of the greats. he needs to prove he can be a perennial winner first, which he clearly hasn't.

agree with everything but the last part. his team is going to the playoffs and before he got there they were the worst.

i'm alo tired of the nba and/or media looking for the next michael. basketball is suppossed to be a team sport and not about one individual.

 

[zip95843]

agree with everything but the last part. his team is going to the playoffs and before he got there they were the worst.

Is this argument - "being the worst and now going to playoff" - going to be a trademark of the best ever?

Then I would say Chris Webber must have been the best ever coming to Sacramento and making them to playoff...

 

[VF21]

Is this argument - "being the worst and now going to playoff" - going to be a trademark of the best ever?

Then I would say Chris Webber must have being the best ever coming to Sacramento and making them to playoff...

Psst? Zip?

Chris Webber was the best player to ever come to the Kings, especially at that point in time. Without him, we wouldn't have gone to the playoffs.

:VF21 tiptoes back out of the thread:

 

[kingsfannPDX]

Is this argument - "being the worst and now going to playoff" - going to be a trademark of the best ever?

Then I would say Chris Webber must have been the best ever coming to Sacramento and making them to playoff...

no. atxrocker said he wasn't a winner. so i was just pointing out that he was going to playoffs. it has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

 

[zip95843]

Psst? Zip?
Chris Webber was the best player to ever come to the Kings, especially at that point in time. Without him, we wouldn't have gone to the playoffs.

*whisper* I know that... But I don't consider him the best ever to play BB because of that...

 

[VF21]

When did this become about LBJ being the best ever? I thought it was about him arguably being ONE of the best to ever play the game, should his current performance levels continue or improve.

 

[FrenchCanadianKING]

I agree with VF. Kevin is a good up and comer who has a nice future in this league and nobody here should start bashing him just cause Zip is comparing him to LBJ. But to compare him with LeBron Freaking James? That is just insane! I don't think you watch much basketball, at all. Is LeBron hyped? Of course he is, but like VF said, HE HAS NO CONTROL OVER THAT! He just goes out and proves that the hype is FOR REAL. You brought out K-Mart's numbers and that he plays 20 minutes a game... As much as I love Kevin, if he would be as good as LBJ he would play much more than 20 mins a game. And please, OH PLEASE, dont tell me that LeBron would play 20 minutes a night for the Kings! I bet the Maloofs and Petrie would be willing to trade the entire team + Arco + a few casinos for LeBron...

Your argument about the numbers doesn't make sense. According to you is someone that averages 1 rebound a game and plays 1 minutes a game a great rebounder? Times 48... WOW that guy averages 48 boards a game! It doesnt work like that. you cant say, WHAT IF he would get more PT, just cause he cant get off the bench. Or atleast not in an argument where somebody is compared to LeBron freaking James

Give it up Zip, you shot yourself in the foot with this one. I don't even see how anyone that watches NBA basketball can agree with this.

Is Francisco Garcia as good as Tracy McGrady?

 

[atxrocker]

i have admited LBJ IS a great player, just not a great player who has earned his place among elite guys who could consistently win. he hasn't earned it yet. still time,sure. but what makes "King James" (which only makes me dislike him more) any better or worth tons more hype and money than say.. Chris Paul? Paul is a stud. they have very comparable rookie stats.. Lebron 39 mins 20.9 ppg,5.5 rpg,5.9 apg-all very respectable numbers. Chris 36 mins 16.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg and 7.9 apg. why didnt this guy get the 100 million dollar contracts, media hype and attention? is he less worthy of it? could he not end up having a more prosperous career? Lebron is a great player, but hardly the best to ever enter the league.

 

[VF21]

1. No one has bashed Kevin yet. I was making a pre-emptive comment AS A MODERATOR.

2. It's not necessary for you to comment on zip's sanity. I've exchanged many a comment with zip. He's not insane.

3. This is getting where it's quickly going to lose any and all relevance, if it hasn't already. So, to prevent things from further deterioration, I'm closing the thread.