What REALLY sucks

[peja16]

Given this team's remarkable post-Artest turnaround, there was plenty of hope for next season, and plenty of room for Petrie to maneuver and rebuild the team around the fresh and productive style of Artest and Wells. Miller to me was an obvious choice to be shipped out since he doesnt fit in with this squad, and Bibby could have been swapped while his value were high. We had gained a rep of being defensively capable as a team, most people overlooking Bibby's indivudual defensive flaws, and focusing on his great offensive stats.

Playing San Antonio has DRASTICALLY dropped their trade value. Had we played PHX and lost (or just missed the playoffs), at least we would have looked good doing it. Miller would have done his pretty-but-winless thing in 120pt games, and racked up a nice stat sheet. Instead his game is being exposed as easily solvable and ultimately unproductive in a playoff atmosphere. I had hoped that a team on the brink would be willing to trade a young, potential star or draft picks (and salary to match obviously) in exchange for Miller who could have been the veteran 'missing piece' to put them over the top. I can't imagine that being the case now, as he has not shown veteran poise and toughness, leadership, or playoff adaptability.

Bibby's defense is just atrocious. What good is hitting a jumper in the last minute of the game when the man you are guarding has already scored 15 pts more than he should have? Not to mention (okay, to mention) all of the fouls he is causing the interior defenders by allowing his man into the lane and forcing the defense to shift. Bibby cant stop anyone from getting into the lane, while Miller cant block anything or rotate fast enough to stop the guards Bibby has allowed in. Even if he does rotate, nobody will rotate to cover his man, resulting in an easy shot for their big man. We either foul or give up a great look, and both Bibby and Miller regularly give weak fouls resulting in 3pt plays anyway. Hence the regularly inflated point totals for other team's centres and point guards. Their seems to be to solution in sight to this problem.

We probably would have been better off missing the playoffs, and certainly would have been better off losing to PHX.

 

[bigbadred00]

SA didn't play great D either. That was just the pace of the game. Artest (other than game 1) usually is very helpful at help defence, we just didn't have anyone playing nearly at his level (Garcia is also a quality wing defender). SA is also a very experienced team on their own home court. They are significantly better than Phoenix or the Sonics team we played last year. On top of that they have just about every Kings killer other than Shaq and Kobe on their squad. I thought the effort put forth by Bonzi, Kevin and Shareef was amazing. Hopefully we get this effort in Sacremento.

As I said in another post, this is still a work in progress. Brad + Somebody + Draft Picks for KG anyone? I still love Brad, I hope we can keep him but you can't win in the NBA without a good/great post defender. Shareef was awesome offensively, but we still need to strike fear in opposing men trying to goto the basket, something we still seem incapable of doing. Spurs are still the best team in the league until they lose. They manhandled a pretty damn good Suns team last year in a similar fashion to what they are doing to us this year. We were the better team for 3 of the 4 quarters, we only played poorly in the 3rd and OT. And what do you expect when we played a playoff rookie for most of the game, we played 2 players who have been here for more than 2 seasons. You can't expect miracles against the best. Our poor bench depth showed. We weren't built to win it all this year, we should be able to compete next year with a couple of modifications.

 

[peja16]

I'm not speaking emotionally from last night's loss. I expect us to get swept or eke out 1 game, and was pleasantly surprised by the spirited effort, which as Bricklayer said, did us proud.

I agree that this team is a work-in-progress, my point was just that we would have had an easier team building this team in the offseason and ridding ourselves of these glaring weaknesses had we not faced the Spurs or been in the playoffs to begin with. This match-up is seriously exposing our flaws and limiting the value of our most urgent trading pieces in Bibby and Miller.

 

[bigbadred00]

I'm not speaking emotionally from last night's loss. I expect us to get swept or eke out 1 game, and was pleasantly surprised by the spirited effort, which as Bricklayer said, did us proud.

I agree that this team is a work-in-progress, my point was just that we would have had an easier team building this team in the offseason and ridding ourselves of these glaring weaknesses had we not faced the Spurs or been in the playoffs to begin with. This match-up is seriously exposing our flaws and limiting the value of our most urgent trading pieces in Bibby and Miller.

If GMs didn't know these weaknesses before this series they are clueless. Brad and Bibby have both had the same weaknesses since they have gotten here. The problem arizes is Brad and Bibby both play 2 positions that are very hard to fill in the league and are still valuable commodities.

 

[hurley]

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
9.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.0 minutes
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg in 37.0 minutes
Mike Bibby
6-1 PG from Arizona
21.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 38.6 minutes
Incoming
Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
21.8 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 39.0 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
7.8 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.9 apg in 28.1 minutes
Rashad McCants
6-4 SF from North Carolina
7.9 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 17.3 minutes
Change in team outlook: -7.7 ppg, -0.6 rpg, and -3.4 apg.


Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
21.8 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 39.0 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
7.8 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.9 apg in 28.1 minutes
Rashad McCants
6-4 SF from North Carolina
7.9 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 17.3 minutes
Incoming
Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
9.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.0 minutes
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg in 37.0 minutes
Mike Bibby
6-1 PG from Arizona
21.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 38.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: +7.7 ppg, +0.6 rpg, and +3.4 apg.



Successful Scenario
Due to Sacramento and Minnesota being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Sacramento and Minnesota had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

lol, if we could do that deal. pull the damn trigger!!

 

[DocHolliday]

I've decided that there is almost no way to move Miller with what he gets paid, how slow he his, and his contract going through 2010 I believe?? We need to package of soe folks we can spare and try to bring in a more athletic center and use Brad as a back up.

 

[SacTownKid]

Nobody's "value" is going to drop, especially not Brads. Every team in the league would want Brad Miller. And he does fit this team. He helps spread the floor.

 

[Bricklayer]

Indeed, what does not fit is our weenie size/weenie defense/weenie rebounding frontcourt. But given the power duo of Artest/Bonzi, if we can even get Bonzi back, SOMEBODY up front has to be able to shoot to open space. Hence, Brad "fits" on offense, better actually than a guy like Reef (who fits better off the bench).

But of course you have to be able to perform.

 

[Kings113]

I see Brad staying, but Kenny will be traded in some way. Petrie also has to get a shot-blocker/rebounder on the team like he usually has had (aside from Webber, Pollard/Clark/Ostertag/Skinner). Unless Sampson becomes that, which I don't see.

 

[Burrito06]

I keep hearing people asking for Bibby to be traded basically because of his defense. The reason Bibby's defense is so bad is because he doesn;t have a dominant big man down low. There is no one on this team that scares anyone from going to the basket. Take Nash for example. Dude, is probably worse then Bibby on defense but he has Marion, Amare lasy year, Kurt Thomas. He has guys that can block shots.

 

[uopmatt]

Brad Miller is WeAK!

How can you be 7 feet tall and and be averaging 2 rebounds a game in this series. If you notice he has a hard time even blocking people out. I've always been a big supported of Brad but he seems to choke be time in playoff games. Anybody else notice the look on his face when someone passed him the ball. It was like he was scared out there and didn't even want to have the ball in his hands.

 

[SacKings4Life21]

i dont want to trade bibby for his D because his offense is great... but if we could pull that milke brad kenny trade for KG jaric and mcants... we would be put in jail for grand theft... minisota would have to have a gun to thier head to do that

 

[Rome]

Nobody's "value" is going to drop, especially not Brads. Every team in the league would want Brad Miller. And he does fit this team. He helps spread the floor.

So does P.J Brown. DOes that mean he's top 10 center?

 

[SacKings4Life21]

No team would want brad miller to push them over the top... i dont think... He is on a team that is close to the top, and he doenst push us over... I guess this is debatable but I just see brad as so much of a defensive liability that his offense doesnt matter anymore

 

[Rome]

No team would want brad miller to push them over the top... i dont think... He is on a team that is close to the top, and he doenst push us over... I guess this is debatable but I just see brad as so much of a defensive liability that his offense doesnt matter anymore

exactly. Whats the use of having a center who will get your 15 pts when he allows the opposing center to outrebound him and score 20.

 

[Kings113]

Bet you if Potapenko or Sampson played regular minutes we wouldn't get a lot of lay-ups on us.

 

[Venom]

Indeed, what does not fit is our weenie size/weenie defense/weenie rebounding frontcourt. But given the power duo of Artest/Bonzi, if we can even get Bonzi back, SOMEBODY up front has to be able to shoot to open space. Hence, Brad "fits" on offense, better actually than a guy like Reef (who fits better off the bench).

But of course you have to be able to perform.

I disagree. Brad, like Peja before him, is not contributing at all if he is not hitting shots. He is a good passer, but the offense has morphed entirely, and we can no longer allow the center to dominate the ball at the top of the key. Miller's talent no longer matches that of the other players on this team. I would try to move Miller for one of Chicago's draft picks.

 

[BMiller52]

I would try to move Miller for one of Chicago's draft picks.

Me too! And then we can draft Lamarcus Aldridge who can shoot, score in the paint, defend, block shots, and rebound!

 

[Kings113]

I disagree. Brad, like Peja before him, is not contributing at all if he is not hitting shots. He is a good passer, but the offense has morphed entirely, and we can no longer allow the center to dominate the ball at the top of the key. Miller's talent no longer matches that of the other players on this team. I would try to move Miller for one of Chicago's draft picks.

Who knows what this means, but back in 2005 of this season I read a bit or two about liking Miller back in the papers, and then I heard the announcers mention it a couple times also. Miller for pick/Duhon.

 

[Padrino]

nobody's trade value is dropping because of this series. san antonio are the defending champions. they're supposed to win this series.

what really does suck is what many of us have been harping on from minute one: own the 8th seed, and you lose to the spurs in the first round and, more importantly, you fail to maximize your draft pick. the momentum was great for the team, and had they been able to draw the 7th seed, we might see this team past round one. at the very least, they would have looked better losing. but, as it stands, we have a middling team losing to the best team in the western conference, and we also have a middling draft pick that may or may not be all that useful given the kings needs.

 

[Burrito06]

Personally, I would not want Jaric. Every year this guy gets injured and misses significant time.

 

[SacTownKid]

So does P.J Brown. DOes that mean he's top 10 center?

Not like Brad, simple as that. Two non defensive frontcourt players is what we have. Brad is not a shotblocker. Doesn't mean he is worthless by any means. Our frontcourt is rather duplicitive. Who goes?, what changes? Thats anyones guess. But mine is that we find ourselves someone to cover Brads weaknesses and use him for his strengths.

 

[Rome]

Not like Brad, simple as that. Two non defensive frontcourt players is what we have. Brad is not a shotblocker. Doesn't mean he is worthless by any means. Our frontcourt is rather duplicitive. Who goes?, what changes? Thats anyones guess. But mine is that we find ourselves someone to cover Brads weaknesses and use him for his strengths.

What happens when a team goes small on Brad and he can't do anything except watch himself get owned?? Because eventually thats what happens in the playoffs when the opposing team guards Brad. I mean Boris Diaw can play center and do the samething as Brad does. Brad isnt anything special. He may be a 7'0 center but he plays like a G/SF. why not just put a quick SF at the center position?

 

[SacKings4Life21]

What happens when a team goes small on Brad and he can't do anything except watch himself get owned?? Because eventually thats what happens in the playoffs when the opposing team guards Brad. I mean Boris Diaw can play center and do the samething as Brad does. Brad isnt anything special. He may be a 7'0 center but he plays like a G/SF. why not just put a quick SF at the center position?

'

I mean we could go small ball for this series... start kenny and SAR... I would be down for that. IT would be better for our sake... but in Arco I bet Miller plays well. if not, another game of sucking will ruin his career...

 

[Troy]

'

I mean we could go small ball for this series... start kenny and SAR... I would be down for that. IT would be better for our sake... but in Arco I bet Miller plays well. if not, another game of sucking will ruin his career...

Exactly, if he doesn't want to be on the Kings and wants to go back to Indiana you still have to perform. You are doing career favors by playing as poorly as he is with all eyes watching you in the playoffs, I hope he knows this.

Suck it up Brad, even if you suck play hard and at least foul out, don't just be a pansy and not do anything.

 

[Rome]

Brad must be the luckiest center in the NBA. All he does is shoot jump shots and play no defense/rebound and collect 11 million a year.

I think anyone who can shoot jumpshots can play Brad's role in the offense as center... I don't see anything special in him other then his jump shot.

 

[Bricklayer]

Brad must be the luckiest center in the NBA. All he does is shoot jump shots and play no defense/rebound and collect 11 million a year.

I think anyone who can shoot jumpshots can play Brad's role in the offense as center... I don't see anything special in him other then his jump shot.

And hence you continue to miss the point in thread after thread. That IS what makes him sepcial. Half of it. The other half being the passing. What makes him special is being the single most "skilled" perimeter center in the league.

Now you may not like that, or respect it. You may continue to cling to a Basketball For Dummies textbook definition of center. But the reason why Brad has been selected to All Star games, by the NBA coaches mind you, is because he is simply the best at what he does. We can argue until the cows come home about whether those skills benefit this team more than the drawbacks. But trying to deny the guy is special or unique is ridiculous.

 

[Rome]

And hence you continue to miss the point in thread after thread. That IS what makes him sepcial. Half of it. The other half being the passing. What makes him special is being the single most "skilled" perimeter center in the league.

Now you may not like that, or respect it. You may continue to cling to a Basketball For Dummies textbook definition of center. But the reason why Brad has been selected to All Star games, by the NBA coaches mind you, is because he is simply the best at what he does. We can argue until the cows come home about whether those skills benefit this team more than the drawbacks. But trying to deny the guy is special or unique is ridiculous.

but a guy who can't play defense/block shots, jumps like my grandpa shouldn't even be considered as a center.

u can put a 6'9 SF and tell him to play center and he will do everything Brad does except actually have quickness.

 

[beemerr23]

And hence you continue to miss the point in thread after thread. That IS what makes him sepcial. Half of it. The other half being the passing. What makes him special is being the single most "skilled" perimeter center in the league.

Now you may not like that, or respect it. You may continue to cling to a Basketball For Dummies textbook definition of center. But the reason why Brad has been selected to All Star games, by the NBA coaches mind you, is because he is simply the best at what he does. We can argue until the cows come home about whether those skills benefit this team more than the drawbacks. But trying to deny the guy is special or unique is ridiculous.

It's been proven - when Brad Miller is guarded on the perimeter, his shot won't fall, he can't pass, or drive. The only time Miller excels is during the regular season when teams don't pay attention as much. Him not being able to rebound or block shots is another reason why his decent shooting negates all the other things he doesn't do, or rather that a Center SHOULD do.