What kind of player do you see Tyreke Evans as, 5+ years from now?

[IfAt1st]

That remains a ridiculous take. Tryeke is one of the most complete young players in the entire league with one glaring hole.

So is it your "take" that all the other aspects of being a good NBA player that you DIDN'T mention aren't important?

His inadequacies have been listed in detail in many threads - I'm sure you haven't missed them.
But you continue to state that he only has one weakness.

What I can't determine is :
* Do you think those deficiencies aren't important
* or do you not agree he has other weaknesses?

Can you shed some light on your opinion about Tyreke's weaknesses, Brick?

 

[Bricklayer]

What's amazing to me is that you're one of the few people here besides me who seems to get this obvious concept. It's just hard to believe that so many people think great players would somehow not be great players if they were on the Kings. As if a wizard is coaching the Thunder and created Durant and Westbrook via some magic spell.

And yet we saw exactly that. Durant and Westbrook and the Thunder were AWFUL under Carlesimo. I have made the point before, conveniently ignored, that they started his final season 4-29. 4-29!!! They were averaging 91.8ppg on .418 shooting. Sound familiar? Westbrook was averaging 12.2pts on .345 shooting. Durant was at 22.8 on .461 and still being accused of actually hurting his team with his presence. Scott Brooks takes over, voila, they finish the season in respectable young team fashion. Start surpising some big teams. And are on the way. Then there is Minnesota. Maybe the worst team in the league last year with most of the same personnel (Rubio and Williams, who plays limited minutes off the bench, excepted). Rubio is a nice young player, but they compete well no matter whether he is starting or coming off the bench, having a good game or a bad. In fact his numbers in wins: 11.9pts 8.6ast on .330 shooting are not much different and maybe even inferior to his numbers in losses: 10.5pts 8.9ast on .410 shooting. The superstar acquistion there was Adelman.

On a young team the coach is MUCH more important than he is on an old team. The old 80s Celtics used to infamously get by with KC Jones as a coach, but he was more player coach than actual coach coach. He made substitutions and argued for fouls, but the team was a championship experienced juggernaught and just pretty much ran itself while he played figurehead. But young teams, especially ones as young as ours, are just like college teams. And in college the coach is everything. Reason is simple -- young guys don't know how to play yet and need somebody to tell them and given them structure. By the time you reach Kobe's age/experience you know as much basketball as the coach. When you're 21/22 you don't. That simple.

And its showing for us on the court too. Cousins is getting consistent and far more efficient. Reke is running an actual offense as a PG and putting up strong PG numbers (its 15.0pts 5.7reb 6.9ast 1.3stl in the last two weeks), we've figured out a role for Jimmer, got Thompson back working as a roleplayer etc. Team assist are up. Shooting percentage is up. Coaches matter.

 

[JB_kings]

Here is a new article in the Bee today about what Smart is doing with Tyreke. Anybody who disagrees with what Smart is doing can take it up with him.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/30/4224264/kings-evans-receives-smart-advice.html

Makes me sad that the Kings wasted so much time on Westphal. He clearly had not one clue how to make Tyreke a better player. I also noticed a tweet from the Kings noting that Smart and Tyreke were working one on one after practice. And this tweet quoting Chuck Hayes "Hayes says Smart is emphasizing teaching in practice and the vet says he is starting to see it pay off."

 

[Glenn]

Makes me sad that the Kings wasted so much time on Westphal. He clearly had not one clue how to make Tyreke a better player. I also noticed a tweet from the Kings noting that Smart and Tyreke were working one on one after practice. And this tweet quoting Chuck Hayes "Hayes says Smart is emphasizing teaching in practice and the vet says he is starting to see it pay off."

The only positive is that having Westphal may have gotten us Cuz and Jimmer. In a relatively weak draft, I see Jimmer as a positive especially if he is seen as a role player and not the PG of the future. Hey, Westphal was cheap. I assume Smart is cheap also but far, far better the coach which I think we noted from day 1 when the team perked up despite still having a clueless offense. It has also been noticeable that after days of practice, the Kings look more organized. There is more going on offensively and not only are his plays good, the team seems happy to do what he says.

I recall in the last game Smart yelling "hurry it up" and indeed the play came up short with a rushed shot. In any case, it seemed like about a 5-7 pass play that had one ending. In the future, there can be added options off of options and be the type of play that is very difficult to defend as it becomes unpredictable. In other words plays that experienced teams can pull off without thinking about it. Like the old Celtics.

 

[Bricklayer]

Here is a new article in the Bee today about what Smart is doing with Tyreke. Anybody who disagrees with what Smart is doing can take it up with him.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/30/4224264/kings-evans-receives-smart-advice.html

That's a good article peeps shoudl read, I'm going to copy it out into its own thread.

 

[Glenn]

That's a good article peeps shoudl read, I'm going to copy it out into its own thread.

I think we got us a good coach in that Smart guy, eh? He did his internship so to speak under the small ball king, Nellie, but depite that we think Nellie's concept of offense was disturbing, he was a smart guy. I was impressed that Smart was taking advice from old Indiana players. That's going back aways and he hasn't forgotten. Now we get to see if it works.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Grant Napear "When Tyreke plays well the Kings plat well". I don't often agree wit Peaches but he's got it right there.

 

[The_Jamal]

Grant Napear "When Tyreke plays well the Kings plat well". I don't often agree wit Peaches but he's got it right there.

Duh. Tyreke/Boogie are the entire team

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Duh. Tyreke/Boogie are the entire team

This board would make it appear that the concept You're only as good as your best players is rocket science.

 

[Dime Dropper]

This board would make it appear that the concept You're only as good as your best players is rocket science.

I have no idea what you mean by this post. No one has denied that the team is much better when Tyreke and Cousins play at their best? Seems like a veiled attempt at a cheapshot, but I don't think anyone feels the way you're saying they do.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I have no idea what you mean by this post. No one has denied that the team is much better when Tyreke and Cousins play at their best? Seems like a veiled attempt at a cheapshot, but I don't think anyone feels the way you're saying they do.

Nor do I feel that "Tyreke/Boogie are the entire team". I'm just going tit for tat here, seems pretty clear from my standpoint.

 

[The_Jamal]

Nor do I feel that "Tyreke/Boogie are the entire team". I'm just going tit for tat here, seems pretty clear from my standpoint.

How many of our role players do you think would crack a contenders rotation out of curiosity?

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

How many of our role players do you think would crack a contenders rotation out of curiosity?

Probably Hayes, JT, Salmons, and Jimmer could but they'd be near the end of the rotation.

 

[IfAt1st]

How many of our role players do you think would crack a contenders rotation out of curiosity?

Careful, you'll get this thread locked like mine that asked that exact question.

 

[The_Jamal]

Probably Hayes, JT, Salmons, and Jimmer could but they'd be near the end of the rotation.

In reality, it's just Chuck and possibly JT as a 4th big. Add in the fact that our cornerstone pieces are in their 2nd and 3rd years in the NBA and you have the reason behind why we're so terrible. No one's denying that our success is dependent on how far Tyreke/Boogie progress. But the point people are trying to make is that no matter how much better they get, it won't translate to wins until our role players can have better shooting nights than 11-35, 0-12, etc and learn how to play defense. Hell, I doubt Rose+Howard could crack 35+ wins with this supporting cast

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

In reality, it's just Chuck and possibly JT as a 4th big. Add in the fact that our cornerstone pieces are in their 2nd and 3rd years in the NBA and you have the reason behind why we're so terrible. No one's denying that our success is dependent on how far Tyreke/Boogie progress. But the point people are trying to make is that no matter how much better they get, it won't translate to wins until our role players can have better shooting nights than 11-35, 0-12, etc and learn how to play defense. Hell, I doubt Rose+Howard could crack 35+ wins with this supporting cast

Salmons could still get minutes on a contender. So could Jimmer. Anyone who can shoot as good as Jimmer can get a few minutes. not that I'm saying the Kings supporting cast is all that, it's not. My whole point is that when Tyreke plays well, the Kings do well. The data backs this up. They're like 5 and 3 when he scores 20 or more and 1 and 7 when he scores 12 or less so they obviously can at least be competitive with the cast they have but only when Tyreke plays well.

 

[The_Jamal]

Salmons could still get minutes on a contender. So could Jimmer. Anyone who can shoot as good as Jimmer can get a few minutes. not that I'm saying the Kings supporting cast is all that, it's not. My whole point is that when Tyreke plays well, the Kings do well. The data backs this up. They're like 5 and 3 when he scores 20 or more and 1 and 7 when he scores 12 or less so they obviously can at least be competitive with the cast they have but only when Tyreke plays well.

Then we need to table our expectations for Tyreke. If we want him to be our #1 scoring option then we need to go out and get a PG to run the team and get others involved which will let Tyreke worry about scoring and locking down his defender. If we want him to run the team as a PG and get others involved, then other guys have to step up and make shots. I know you posted those games where he scored 12 or less, but he flirted with a triple double 2 or 3 times during those games. Many times his 6 assist games should have been 10-11 assist games because our guys can't make wide open threes. It's not realistic to ask him to guard the other teams best perimeter player/run the the team offensively and be our #1 scoring option as a 22 yr old. As far as I'm concerned there's exactly 1 guy in the NBA who can do all those things at an elite level (LeBron James)

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Then we need to table our expectations for Tyreke. If we want him to be our #1 scoring option then we need to go out and get a PG to run the team and get others involved which will let Tyreke worry about scoring and locking down his defender. If we want him to run the team as a PG and get others involved, then other guys have to step up and make shots. I know you posted those games where he scored 12 or less, but he flirted with a triple double 2 or 3 times during those games. Many times his 6 assist games should have been 10-11 assist games because our guys can't make wide open threes. It's not realistic to ask him to guard the other teams best perimeter player/run the the team offensively and be our #1 scoring option as a 22 yr old. As far as I'm concerned there's exactly 1 guy in the NBA who can do all those things at an elite level (LeBron James)

I don't think he should be a PG. I think that's part of the problem. if it were up to me I'd try and bring in a Rubio/Rondo/Calderon type PG and just let Tyreke worry about scoring. Imagine how good they could be with a 10 assist PG and Tyreke scoring 25-30.

 

[rainmaker]

This board would make it appear that the concept You're only as good as your best players is rocket science.

Who, specifically?

 

[BMiller52]

In reality, it's just Chuck and possibly JT as a 4th big. Add in the fact that our cornerstone pieces are in their 2nd and 3rd years in the NBA and you have the reason behind why we're so terrible. No one's denying that our success is dependent on how far Tyreke/Boogie progress. But the point people are trying to make is that no matter how much better they get, it won't translate to wins until our role players can have better shooting nights than 11-35, 0-12, etc and learn how to play defense. Hell, I doubt Rose+Howard could crack 35+ wins with this supporting cast

I don't debate what you say about guys wouldn't be starting on contenders and all, or that our cast for these guys is kind of weak(mainly because we're so young), but the idea that Rose+Dwight couldn't win 35 games with these guys is nuts IMO. If you put a line up of DRose/Thornton/Garcia or Greene/Thompson/Howard out there, you would have a pretty good team. That team is dang near a contender.

 

[The_Jamal]

I don't think he should be a PG. I think that's part of the problem. if it were up to me I'd try and bring in a Rubio/Rondo/Calderon type PG and just let Tyreke worry about scoring.

I agree. They're asking him to be something that maybe 5 players ever have succeeded at doing. I'd be perfectly happy him following in the footsteps of a poor man's D-wade and being a 20-6-5 guy at the SG.

 

[Section 101]

Interesting note from the Bee blog.

* One interesting sight at the end of Monday's practice was a drill Smart set up for guard Tyreke Evans. Smart put a couple pieces of tape on the court near the right elbow and had Evans stand with a foot behind each, so that Evans had his feet squared facing the basket. Smart then told Evans to shoot while jumping straight up.

Evans has a "powerful right leg," Smart said, so that when he plants to shoot with the right foot out in front of his left, pushing off sometimes causes him to lean backward.

"That's why you see him shoot a lot of fallaway jump shots," Smart said. "The tape drill is to get in his mind that the weight is distributed evenly. So now when he pushes he can't push backwards. The weight has been centered. And now he can jump straight up and shoot it."

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/kings/archives/2012/01/monday-practice.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Kingster]

That remains a ridiculous take. Tryeke is one of the most complete young players in the entire league with one glaring hole. And he has a limited set of skills. Pfft. There is a reason I have lost patience with this nonsense. People sincerely don't comprehend what they are watching, hence its impossible to even have a conversation about it.

Hi, I can score, pass, rebound and defend. I have an elite ability to get to the hoop. But I am not much of a shooter yet. Hence I have a limited set of skills. Who am I? Well LeBron for one. Westbrook for another. Or that skillless guy in Sacramento.

You are hilarious. Have you been reading all the posts describing the skills Tyreke should add to his lexicon? "One glaring hole"? Freaking hilarious. How about a ton of holes that make "one glaring hole"? Thanks for the humor. I need it at this time in the morning.

 

[Dime Dropper]

You are hilarious. Have you been reading all the posts describing the skills Tyreke should add to his lexicon? "One glaring hole"? Freaking hilarious. How about a ton of holes that make "one glaring hole"? Thanks for the humor. I need it at this time in the morning.

Why don't you elaborate on what the other "ton of holes" are?

It's as simple as this: give Tyreke a consistent shot and he is a multiple time all-star.

 

[Kingster]

Why don't you elaborate on what the other "ton of holes" are?

It's as simple as this: give Tyreke a consistent shot and he is a multiple time all-star.

I've already elaborated and specified in several posts, as have many others. It's not a secret. It's really only a secret if others don't want to know.

Apparently now the debate has degraded to semantics - one giant hole vs several small holes (that make the one giant hole)... Maybe the one giant hole is the generalized term, "shot", and the smaller holes are: lack of a left hand, a floater, a consistent 3 pt shot when wide open, lack of a post up game, no bank off the glass, no pull up shot on the fast break. Those are the smaller holes that make up the big hole. And that doesn't end it because there are other non-shooting holes like moving without the ball and running a pick and roll, etc. It would be nice if next summer Tyreke fills one or two of these holes so that his game isn't so one-dimensional.

 

[Spike]

I've already elaborated and specified in several posts, as have many others. It's not a secret. It's really only a secret if others don't want to know.

Apparently now the debate has degraded to semantics - one giant hole vs several small holes (that make the one giant hole)... Maybe the one giant hole is the generalized term, "shot", and the smaller holes are: lack of a left hand, a floater, a consistent 3 pt shot when wide open, lack of a post up game, no bank off the glass, no pull up shot on the fast break. Those are the smaller holes that make up the big hole. And that doesn't end it because there are other non-shooting holes like moving without the ball and running a pick and roll, etc. It would be nice if next summer Tyreke fills one or two of these holes so that his game isn't so one-dimensional.

Many players don't have a "bank off the glass". Tim Duncan is the only one who consistently comes to mind, and given that, I don't know any PGs who would have the need for such a shot. Evans also doesn't have a sky hook. That's a hole in his game then too, I suppose. The only player who had all (all) of what you mentioned seems to be someone like Magic Johnson.

It comes to a point where you're just reaching for things to be angry about. It's established that he needs to be more consistent with his outside shot. Everything else seems like you're just piling on to fan a fire.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I've already elaborated and specified in several posts, as have many others. It's not a secret. It's really only a secret if others don't want to know.

Apparently now the debate has degraded to semantics - one giant hole vs several small holes (that make the one giant hole)... Maybe the one giant hole is the generalized term, "shot", and the smaller holes are: lack of a left hand, a floater, a consistent 3 pt shot when wide open, lack of a post up game, no bank off the glass, no pull up shot on the fast break. Those are the smaller holes that make up the big hole. And that doesn't end it because there are other non-shooting holes like moving without the ball and running a pick and roll, etc. It would be nice if next summer Tyreke fills one or two of these holes so that his game isn't so one-dimensional.

OK, so you want him to be able to do everything under the sun? LeBron, Durant, Rose... none of those guys would be good enough to fit your criteria. It's a ridiculous post. All Tyreke needs is a consistent shot to keep the defense honest and it allows him to expand his game to an all-star level. If you want a player with Tyreke's skills to be able to do all of those things, you're going to be waiting forever.

 

[rainmaker]

Many players don't have a "bank off the glass". Tim Duncan is the only one who consistently comes to mind, and given that, I don't know any PGs who would have the need for such a shot. Evans also doesn't have a sky hook. That's a hole in his game then too, I suppose. The only player who had all (all) of what you mentioned seems to be someone like Magic Johnson.

It comes to a point where you're just reaching for things to be angry about. It's established that he needs to be more consistent with his outside shot. Everything else seems like you're just piling on to fan a fire.

I don't think anyone is talking about an 18 footer off the glass from the wing, like Duncan. I've pointed out Reke lack of use of the glass, and what I was referring to since I can't speak for anyone else, is a floater/runner using the glass on the drives from an angle, when you can't get all the way to the hoop.

Many pg's have used that, when 5-8ft too far for a layup. Rose has it. GP had it. Nash has it. Parker has it. Billups has it. CP3 had it on display last night. Just basically referring to a runner/floater from the angle where using the glass is a higher % shot.

Similar to this, except using it in the halfcourt rather than transition

More examples for anyone who cares, of what Reke needs to add

 

[Hadlowe]

OK, so you want him to be able to do everything under the sun? LeBron, Durant, Rose... none of those guys would be good enough to fit your criteria. It's a ridiculous post. All Tyreke needs is a consistent shot to keep the defense honest and it allows him to expand his game to an all-star level. If you want a player with Tyreke's skills to be able to do all of those things, you're going to be waiting forever.

I think you're mischaracterizing his post. I don't think anyone would argue that Tyreke needs all of that. One or two more options would suffice.

What Tyreke is great at is finishing at the rim with his right hand. If he were able to add a 10 foot pull-up jumper, a floater, or a good left-handed drive and finish, it would open up the right-handed drive more. He doesn't need to have everything, just one or two more options so that when the defense takes away the drive to the right, Tyreke doesn't disappear completely.

Personally, I think the post-up game for him would be just devastating. He's already the biggest and strongest pg in the league. If he can become a post-up threat, it would force defenses to collapse just as much as the drive and dish.

 

[Kingster]

Many players don't have a "bank off the glass". Tim Duncan is the only one who consistently comes to mind, and given that, I don't know any PGs who would have the need for such a shot. Evans also doesn't have a sky hook. That's a hole in his game then too, I suppose. The only player who had all (all) of what you mentioned seems to be someone like Magic Johnson.

It comes to a point where you're just reaching for things to be angry about. It's established that he needs to be more consistent with his outside shot. Everything else seems like you're just piling on to fan a fire.

You miss the point and create a strawman. Tyreke doesn't have to add ALL these skills, just some. If he gets the bank, all the better.

As an aside, I'd love if the Kings players would practice the bank shot, especially on fast breaks. It seems to be a lost art these days.