What I think the Kings management is doing

[HighFlyingMonkey]

No ****. That's why you make a plan to get one.

Then please, by all means, make your "plan" and you're hired as GM. Simple as that, right?

In that case, it's time to make a plan to facilitate the necessary suckage.

Just look at our record. We were barely able to edge Denver, who were playing without half their starters and were trying to mix in AI for the first time. We were able to beat Philly handily, but who can't?

And oddly you come back around to the very problem -- we have no PLAN to suck. And I actually sit here nervous that our not getting it GM is going to go make another patching move in a desperate attempt NOT to suck, and hence to avoid any possibility of getting a superstar. To draw out the "semi suck" mediocrity for another year, and another and another, because he won't just turn the corner, plan for the suck, try to nab that star, and get to the real rebuilding. You are right that its very tough to rebuild without one. But in which case intentionally hiring piles of mediocre vets with just enough talent to deny you both any chance at being good as well as any chance at landing a superstar to start over with is just dumb.

And oddly, you come back to the very beginning as to why patience is absolutely necessary. No more patches. Cut the life support, and let this crippled animal die. I'm going to disagree that this team doesn't suck enough though. This coming January will be a very telling month.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Then please, by all means, make your "plan" and you're hired as GM. Simple as that, right?

There's no way in hell that any team should ever hire me to be their GM. If I were ever offered such a job, I'd turn it down and ask for some of whatever was being passed around.

However, that little fact has exactly diddly and squat to do with this discussion.

Geoff Petrie has been hired as GM. It is his job, at least in theory, to build a championship team. Considering that there is pretty strong evidence that most, if not all, of the high impact moves that have been made over the last few years (Webber trade, Peja trade, coaching change) have been initiated by the Maloofs, we're essentially looking at over three years of waiting, patching and praying. Three and a half years, at least. This team has been on a downward slide since Chris was injured in the Dallas series, and a lot of that had nothing to do with his knee. We've made lateral trades, we've bled talent, we've been "patient," we've won just enough to avoid the lottery. That's it. The Martin and early-Artest fortune has been more than canceled out by the Webber, Bonzi, Mobley, Jimmy Jackson, Wallace, Peeler, Skinner, etc. blunders.

So, really, what in bloody hell are we waiting for?

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

There's no way in hell that any team should ever hire me to be their GM. If I were ever offered such a job, I'd turn it down and ask for some of whatever was being passed around.

However, that little fact has exactly diddly and squat to do with this discussion.

That's fine. I was just saying you don't make a plan without a direction. And you don't have a direction without a superstar.

Geoff Petrie has been hired as GM. It is his job, at least in theory, to build a championship team. Considering that there is pretty strong evidence that most, if not all, of the high impact moves that have been made over the last few years (Webber trade, Peja trade, coaching change) have been initiated by the Maloofs, we're essentially looking at over three years of waiting, patching and praying. Three and a half years, at least. This team has been on a downward slide since Chris was injured in the Dallas series, and a lot of that had nothing to do with his knee. We've made lateral trades, we've bled talent, we've been "patient," we've won just enough to avoid the lottery. That's it. The Martin and early-Artest fortune has been more than canceled out by the Webber, Bonzi, Mobley, Jimmy Jackson, Wallace, Peeler, Skinner, etc. blunders.

So, really, what in bloody hell are we waiting for?

I'm not going to make up an excuse for every stupid move Petrie has made over the last 3-4 years. It's infuriating. But you never let your emotions cloud your judgement. We've tried the impatient way by slapping on quick fixes to the team and it didn't work. We've made impatient moves. Patience is a must. I'm sick of watching mediocrity.

 

[Entity]

I think we are in a situation where they know they have to rebuild but want to do it while still staying competitive with some vets such as Miller,Bibby, Artest. They know some bad losing seasons would follow dumping those guys for youth. Its like they want their cake and eat it too. They need to recognize that you have to do one or the other. either trade for superstar talent or go with youth. You can't go with youth and mid level stars we have seen that for 2 years now.

 

[piksi]

We were able to beat Philly handily, but who can't?

Blazers but then again. Webber's absence hurt the Blazers a lot last night. It just wasn't fair

 

[Spike]

Considering that there is pretty strong evidence that most, if not all, of the high impact moves that have been made over the last few years (Webber trade, Peja trade, coaching change) have been initiated by the Maloofs, we're essentially looking at over three years of waiting, patching and praying.

So why isn't anyone holding the Maloofs' feet to the flame? It seems like much of the movement made has not really been Petrie's idea. Did some things work out? Well, kinda. We've been lucky that players have broken down in other places. Webber looks pretty healthy here on the east coast though...

Three and a half years, at least. This team has been on a downward slide since Chris was injured in the Dallas series, and a lot of that had nothing to do with his knee. We've made lateral trades, we've bled talent, we've been "patient," we've won just enough to avoid the lottery.

This kind of follows your earlier point. We can play what if until we're old and crusty, but maybe we should think about the Maloofs undoing what Petrie has done. Where would we be if they hadn't gone all Cuban on Sacramento?

I enjoy playing devil's advocate.

 

[Bricklayer]

And oddly, you come back to the very beginning as to why patience is absolutely necessary. No more patches. Cut the life support, and let this crippled animal die. I'm going to disagree that this team doesn't suck enough though. This coming January will be a very telling month.

We have the 12th worst record in the league. Not good enough. Er...bad enough. If we're going to do this, let's do the damn thing. This is one of those things where the longer you fight it, the more painful you make the inevitable. And in this draft of all drafts. This team is going nowhere. Which might mean they still can win between 35-42 and threaten to grab that #8 spot. That would suck. Time to cash out.

At the beginning of the season I still thought there were two ways we could go. Well...maybe the beginning of the empty offseason. In any case, there was still a viable "win now" strategy centered around the home run ball wth KG or whatnot. A functioning middling/low playoff team with solid chemistry that just needed to have a superstar pasted on from the outside, have the GM get off his butt and shake up the frontcourt with a shotblocker or two etc. Now that's not really viable anymore. Now the only way "up" is to go down. We aren't even middling, and our chemistry is ruinous. On top of which our coach may not be up to NBA caliber, let alone playoff or championship caliber. Eevn if we could pull off the home run ball and nab KG or whatnot, we don't have a winning structure to paste him into. So we need to go the other way. Somewhere in this draft, of all drafts, there is another KG. Some pundits think there may be as many as half a dozen KGs. But there is almost certainly at least one, and likely several more. Time to go fishing.

But right now we aren't designed to fish. We are disfunctional, ugly. But still have enough vets with talent to screw ourselves out of a top pick with a big performance here or a big performance there. Furthermore, those same assets that can screw us out of a top pick, might also represent more draft picks themselves if peddled to the right teams. We have Kevin. He's no superstar, but he should represent one long term starter and a young #2/#3 type guy who can get you points. Its a good young piece. We need to figure out a PLAN to surround him with other young pieces to grow alongside him. Which means trading away those wasted and indeed counterproductive vets. Turning them into the sorts of assets we need, not the sorts of assets that will continue to deny us what we need.

P.S. As an aside, after watching Brad have fits and spurts of effectiveness here recently, I have to say, of all of the 5 vets (Ron, Mike, Brad, SAR, Kenny) he is the one that I now could see keeping for a bit, simply because he is the only one of all those guys who makes his teammates better, and he could help Kevin in Peja fashion by setting up the offense for him. Of course that does not have to be and I still see a clear rationale for trading him too (again, big contract, in decline, no defense), but if I was going to keep one of those guys at this point, it might be him. Roleplayer, support player, help the kids we bring in. Keep Corliss too as aminimum deal just as a nice guy vet to lock down the lockeroom. Move the rest and let's get on with the future already.

 

[Catalyst]

And oddly you come back around to the very problem -- we have no PLAN to suck. And I actually sit here nervous that our not getting it GM is going to go make another patching move in a desperate attempt NOT to suck, and hence to avoid any possibility of getting a superstar.

We also don't know what's going on behind the scenes with Kings management.

The Maloofs could be telling Petrie, "No rebuilding. We have a new arena to sell to fans. Get a winning product out on the floor."

I'm not saying this is the case, only that it could be.

It's hard to know who's exactly to blame when it comes to why things are the way they are.

Usually, I've found that there's plenty of blame to go around to everyone.

People make bad/dumb decisions and that's life.

 

[bibbinator]

The Maloofs could be telling Petrie, "No rebuilding. We have a new arena to sell to fans. Get a winning product out on the floor."

Bingo.

Even the Maloofs knew they couldn't get the arena with a losing team. Their best hope was to have a wave of Kings feelgoodness washing over Sac so big that the problems with it would be ignored.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Bingo.

Even the Maloofs knew they couldn't get the arena with a losing team...

Fallacious reasoning. They're not going to get a new arena with what has passed for a "winning" team these past few years, either. If you don't think that fans are going to pay good money to watch a rebuilding effort, what in the world makes you think that they're going pay good money to watch a mediocre team tread water for three or four more years?

Fans want to see progress; treading water is not progress. Rebuilding is progress, even if it means that you have to take three steps back to take five steps forward.

 

[6th]

We have the 12th worst record in the league. Not good enough. Er...bad enough. If we're going to do this, let's do the damn thing. This is one of those things where the longer you fight it, the more painful you make the inevitable.

It reminds me of someone slowly pealing a bandage off where there is a lot of body hair. Ouch!! Just pull the dang thing off. It hurts for a shorter period of time. Why delay it and thereby prolong the pain?

 

[tyrant]

It reminds me of someone slowly pealing a bandage off where there is a lot of body hair. Ouch!! Just pull the dang thing off. It hurts for a shorter period of time. Why delay it and thereby prolong the pain?

it'll hurt for a shorter duration of time; yes, but when you rip that sucker off its gonna hurt alot more at that time. people are afraid of the big rip. that's why they delay or prolong. the rip, the big fat rip

 

[Catalyst]

I think fans mostly want to see effort and dedication.

If the players are really trying hard out there and still losing, that's one thing.

If you're losing and not trying -- that's quite another.

Some of the performances this year have been lacking, although this is nothing new for the Kings, or any NBA team for that matter.

What is new is how often the effort has been lacking since the start of the year. This is a team that looks like the wind is out of its sails half the time, and that's a really bad sign.

This is how they looked last year pre-Artest.

One can assume it's safe to say another trade will be made this year, because Petrie usually makes one deal a year.

It's only a matter of time this year, in my opinion, before Petrie does something -- the real question here is what.

 

[tyrant]

i think we're trying. we just stink

 

[Venom]

I don't think the arena issue should factor into this. Greg Oden gets us a new arena, period dot. I agree with Brick, for the most part. I think that Petrie is poised for a liquidation though. I imagine that Artest gets moved soon. There is too much noise in the NBA about an impending trade. We know the Kings front office doesn't leak, but most others do. More than likely the hold up is that we are looking for youth and picks, and most teams want to make a lateral swap of malcontents.

Once Artest is off-loaded Bibby should have a chance to shine, which will either hasten his departure via trade or his opt-out at the end of the season. Brad might be a nice addition to a playoff team, particularly in the East. Kenny and SAR could be throw-ins in any deal.

This next offseason is going to be HUGE, with a flurry of activity on the part of the Kings.

 

[bibbinator]

Fallacious reasoning. They're not going to get a new arena with what has passed for a "winning" team these past few years, either. If you don't think that fans are going to pay good money to watch a rebuilding effort, what in the world makes you think that they're going pay good money to watch a mediocre team tread water for three or four more years?

Fans want to see progress; treading water is not progress. Rebuilding is progress, even if it means that you have to take three steps back to take five steps forward.

Hypothetically, had we kept Bonzi, we would have been a much better team this year. That would have picked up more bandwagon fans and activated the sleepers. With a less murky arena initiative and better fan support the arena could have passed, but losing the playoff star and replacing him with a relative noboby ( in the public eye) was a letdown. The Muss DUI was another downer at the wrong time.

 

[datamanwes]

The way most of you talk. It seems like you think you understand the game of basketball better than the coaches or GM. Let me enlighten you, YOU DON'T.
They are professionals who understand the game and its ebb and flows.
If you blow up the team you don't always get a better team and in fact can wind up rebuilding for years.

The draft by itself is risky in building a team

Eric and his staff are all great coaches and have what it takes to get us in the title hunt.

Kevin Is coming into his own

Salmons despite what everyone said around here has become a very good free agent pickup

QD is going to become one hell of a player(tonight was only a glimpse)

Brad makes others around him better(You need that with a young team)

Once we get Ron's head right and help him understand he can lead this team by defensive presence and not his offensive game we will show marked improvement.

Shareef is a bargain for what he brings as is Ronnie and Garcia.

We also have some healty expirings we can deal as well as Mike's contract if he opts out For the right trade anyone is expendable and we are ready to make a move to do so.

Once we realized this team was not going to win the championship we started making moves that made sense, Vlade couldnt play anymore,Either could Doug, Webber was going downhill and had that huge agreement and Peja as beloved as he was here was not worth what he would bring in free agency.

If we exhibit patience and make the right moves we can become an elite team again and very soon. we arn't that far away(Really)
Have patience as hard as that is.

 

[BMiller52]

I don't think the arena issue should factor into this. Greg Oden gets us a new arena, period dot. I agree with Brick, for the most part. I think that Petrie is poised for a liquidation though. I imagine that Artest gets moved soon. There is too much noise in the NBA about an impending trade. We know the Kings front office doesn't leak, but most others do. More than likely the hold up is that we are looking for youth and picks, and most teams want to make a lateral swap of malcontents.

Once Artest is off-loaded Bibby should have a chance to shine, which will either hasten his departure via trade or his opt-out at the end of the season. Brad might be a nice addition to a playoff team, particularly in the East. Kenny and SAR could be throw-ins in any deal.

This next offseason is going to be HUGE, with a flurry of activity on the part of the Kings.

Yeah, I'm hoping the team has a lot of cap room, a decent pick, and some more young guys they in a trade.

 

[Bricklayer]

The way most of you talk. It seems like you think you understand the game of basketball better than the coaches or GM. Let me enlighten you, YOU DON'T.

I feel enlightened. Really.

Thank you for setting us all straight with your 6th post on the board.

 

[GoGoGadget]

So why isn't anyone holding the Maloofs' feet to the flame? It seems like much of the movement made has not really been Petrie's idea. Did some things work out? Well, kinda. We've been lucky that players have broken down in other places. Webber looks pretty healthy here on the east coast though...

----------------

This kind of follows your earlier point. We can play what if until we're old and crusty, but maybe we should think about the Maloofs undoing what Petrie has done. Where would we be if they hadn't gone all Cuban on Sacramento?

I enjoy playing devil's advocate.

Irrelevant. All of it.

I, myself, have been very critical of the Maloofs both here and elsewhere. I don't like a lot of the decisions that they've made, especially with how they've chosen to market this team in recent years. And, yes, in my opinion, if the Maloofs were behind the Webber trade and the non-renewal of Adelman's contract, then they get to share the dunce cap for the day.

However, none of that changes anything with respect to Geoff Petrie's need to hatch a plan. The team is what it is. The team got this way on his watch. It is his job to recognize that it's broken, and fix it. Doesn't matter who broke it -- the players, the owners, the fans, the kids playing baseball three doors down -- he's the one in charge of picking up the pieces and starting to reassemble.

 

[BigWaxer]

GOGO is right.

Petrie is getting paid enough money for his entire family to live comfy their entire life.

The comments that the Maloofs are making moves for them is
a) pretty dumb, or b) Petrie has no uhhh, this is a friendly forum so I will use the work that rhymes with it.. BACK. If petrie has not back, then he needs to go. Also every move is not going to be a win. Some are going to be a bust... gotta remember that as well.

Petrie makes the draft picks, seems so so on the draft but I don't fault Petrie for that. Really looking at the last few years, Dallas was one of the few teams when Nelli was there that would pick out great picks that fit a team. Spurs maybe but you plug a good player into a system that wins... Its a lot easier then plugging one into our mash of players now.

I like what I watched last night, it actually is more of Muss's game, up tempo... our younger players are able to do that. Look at how many fouls we got by being the aggressor, granted it was the GS but...it was a start/flash of things to come. Bibbs and Artest are all but gone this year, would be surprised if the are not.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

The draft by itself is risky in building a team

No it isn't. Building a team in the draft is only risky when there's nobody in the draft. If you have four picks in the 1990 Draft, and you end up with Simmons, Mays, Causwell and Bonner, that's a risk. If you have the Number One pick in 1989, and it looks like the best player available going into the draft is Pervis Ellison, that's a risk. But building a team in the draft isn't a risk when there are actually good players in the draft. Chicago built a championship core in two drafts (Jordan in '84, Pippen and Grant in '87), San Antonio built one in three (Robinson in '87, Elliot in '89, Duncan in '97) and then rebuilt it two years later (Duncan in '97, Ginobili in '99, Parker in '01). Building a team in the draft wasn't a risk if you had good picks in 1998, or in 1999, or in 2003, or 2004, or probably not even in 2005. And it's not going to be a risk next year; this is shaping up to be precisely the kind of draft you want to be bad for. We can't win now with the team we have, so why NOT make plans to win later?

Eric and his staff are all great coaches and have what it takes to get us in the title hunt.

Riiiiight... Musselman hasn't even proven that he has what it takes to get a team above .500. Title hunt? Yeah right.

Once we realized this team was not going to win the championship we started making moves that made sense.

What moves would those be? Letting Divac walk for nothing? Trading Christie for a player that walked for nothing? Trading Webber for yesterday's garbage? Trading Stojakovic for a nutjob?

If we exhibit patience and make the right moves we can become an elite team again and very soon. we arn't that far away(Really)

You're not in your right mind. Really.

 

[Catalyst]

I'm not in agreement with the people that are essentially saying, "Just rebuild and don't look back."

Rebuilding, like with any personnel decisions, should be a carefully planned out process, that makes sense in both the long and short terms for the franchise.

Yes, there have been some very successful rebuilding stories. The Dallas Mavericks, Miami Heat, San Antonio Spurs, etc.

But, for all of those teams that turned it around by rebuilding, you also have the Atlanta Hawks, Memphis Grizzlies, Portland Trailblazers, Golden State Warriors and so forth and so on that have tried to rebuild several times without success.

Nuking the team and starting over sounds like a great idea -- when you automatically assume it's going to lead you back into being a championship contender.

The reality is this doesn't happen for everyone, and that we could end up in a much worse position than we are now.

Devoid of much talent because we traded it off, and with young guys that aren't going to take us any where. Say hello to the Sacramento (Atlanta) Hawks.

Rebuilding should be done at the right time, when the draft picks and expiring contracts are available and workable.

And that time might not be right now.

If teams come calling offering high draft picks for our players, that's one thing. But, do any of you really want to start trading off our major talent for picks in the mid 20s?

If we can get some good deals, I say work them. If not, you might as well hold on to your pieces and work out a better plan.

 

[VF21]

However, none of that changes anything with respect to Geoff Petrie's need to hatch a plan. The team is what it is. The team got this way on his watch. It is his job to recognize that it's broken, and fix it. Doesn't matter who broke it -- the players, the owners, the fans, the kids playing baseball three doors down -- he's the one in charge of picking up the pieces and starting to reassemble.

Have you ever seen the USC Marching Band perform their routine where they run around looking like chickens with their heads cut off, nearly careening into each other, etc. and then - just when you think they can't possibly get back on track - all of a sudden they're formed something recognizable? (I don't remember what they spell out because it's been several years since I saw them do that particular stunt.)

Anyway, my point is that people are assuming Petrie doesn't have a plan; that he's out there apparently just throwing darts or reading tea leaves or something.

There is the real possibility that he does have a plan; that he has, in fact, been getting rid of salaries and acquiring expiring contracts for a specific reason.

I've said many times - and I truly believe - that Petrie views this whole thing like a chess master. He's looking a number of moves into the future.

I still want to believe that at some point we're going to look up and see the words on the field, so to speak, and be very glad we showed some patience about what has been done and why.

 

[Catalyst]

Anyway, my point is that people are assuming Petrie doesn't have a plan; that he's out there apparently just throwing darts or reading tea leaves or something.

It amazes me that people think Petrie doesn't have a plan.

The guy probably plans in his sleep.

Petrie has made some bad choices, he always has, but his bad choices seem to be far outweighed by his good ones.

The last 3 draft choices he's made seem to be working out quite well, and these were guys selected in the LATE 1st round.

I think the Artest trade was a steal, and don't forget about getting Brad Miller for Scot Pollard and Hedo.

There's obviously been some bad choices, but if you look around the league, Petrie is considered one of the best GMs, and judging by what most other GMs do, you can easily see why.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

But, for all of those teams that turned it around by rebuilding, you also have the Atlanta Hawks, Memphis Grizzlies, Portland Trailblazers, Golden State Warriors and so forth and so on that have tried to rebuild several times without success.

Portland is guilty of exactly the same thing that we're doing right now: that is, instead of committing to a rebuild, they tried to retool on the fly. In Portland's case, it wasn't until they finally realized that they weren't going to get back to the Finals that they made any effort to rebuild, and then the players that they decided to try and rebuild with were all unqualified ****bags... THAT'S why the rebuilding effort has failed in Portland, and it's also why all their fans left; not because of rebuilding, but because they waited too long to rebuild, and then tried to rebuild with the wrong guys.

Atlanta's rebuilding effort failed because they kept stopping in the middle of it; they were on the right path to rebuild with a core of Abdur-Rahim, Terry and Mohammed... and then they traded Abdur-Rahim, Terry and Mohammed. Then they tried to rebuild around Antoine Walker and Al Harrington, but then they quit on that, too. They're in their third rebuild attempt; if they'd just kept trying to build around the players they had, they'd be in the playoff picture in the east right now.

You can't say that Memphis was a rebuilding effort, becuase they never had anything to build on; for the most part, the first five years of their franchise's history were characterized by bad drafts and worse coaching. it wasn't until after they traded Abdur-Rahim for Gasol that they started to build towards something. So you can't say that they rebuilt anything because they're still working on their first build.

And even with Golden State, they didn't bother to rebuild for years, and that was the problem. Throughout the nineties, they more or less kept the same veteran core together and kind of hope that they would find their old game. Donyell Marshall, Latrell Sprewell, Chris Mullin and Tim Hardaway played on together on that team through a lot of thirty-win seasons; there's no way you can tell me that was a sincere rebuilding effort. They didn't make a serious attempt at rebuilding until 2001, and even then, they systematically traded away a core of players (Arenas, Jamison and Hughes) that Washington rode to the playoffs three years later. You can't call it a rebuilding effort when management keeps trading your core.

 

[Catalyst]

Atlanta's rebuilding effort failed because they kept stopping in the middle of it; they were on the right path to rebuild with a core of Abdur-Rahim, Terry and Mohammed... and then they traded Abdur-Rahim, Terry and Mohammed. Then they tried to rebuild around Antoine Walker and Al Harrington, but then they quit on that, too. They're in their third rebuild attempt; if they'd just kept trying to build around the players they had, they'd be in the playoff picture in the east right now.

And even with Golden State, they didn't bother to rebuild for years, and that was the problem. Throughout the nineties, they more or less kept the same veteran core together and kind of hope that they would find their old game. Donyell Marshall, Latrell Sprewell, Chris Mullin and Tim Hardaway played on together on that team through a lot of thirty-win seasons; there's no way you can tell me that was a sincere rebuilding effort. They didn't make a serious attempt at rebuilding until 2001, and even then, they systematically traded away a core of players (Arenas, Jamison and Hughes) that Washington rode to the playoffs three years later. You can't call it a rebuilding effort when management keeps trading your core.

And making the playoffs in the East is an accomplishment?

You talk about the Hawks holding on to Terry, Shareef and Nazr like they'd win them something, but if the Hawks held on to those guys, they'd be in the same boat the Kings are now. Good enough to make the playoffs, but not bad enough to get a good draft pick.

How exactly would that have helped them rebuild?

And Arenas wasn't traded, he signed with the Wizards for an amazing contract -- one which the Warriors couldn't match because they didn't have his Bird rights.

And you think holding on to guys like Antawn Jamison and Larry Hughes are going to help the Warriors rebuild?

That's some... interesting logic.

Portland traded almost every one of their veteran players, and has one of the youngest teams in the league.

Memphis traded their franchise player at the time (Shareef), for a draft pick.

I don't get how you can say that's not rebuilding...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

And making the playoffs in the East is an accomplishment?

Yeah, making the playoffs in the east is an accomplishment. You only need to win three series to get to the Finals. You try to act like winning the east isn't an accomplishment as if a team from the east has to beat the whole western conference in order to win the championship. And, if you're a high enough seed in the east, say, third, you only have to beat maybe one good team to get to the Finals.

... You talk about the Hawks holding on to Terry, Shareef and Nazr like they'd win them something, but if the Hawks held on to those guys, they'd be in the same boat the Kings are now.

Hardly. Terry's doing quite well for himself in Dallas, and Mohammed has been a solid (if unspectacular) big man everywhere he's played. They had just drafted Diaw; give him some time develop and add even a little depth (the one thing that they've never had), and you're damned right they'd be good enough to win homecourt in the east. Which, believe it or not, actually is a better boat than what the Kings are in now.

And you think holding on to guys like Antawn Jamison and Larry Hughes are going to help the Warriors rebuild?

Based how they've contributed to winning teams in Dallas, Washington and Cleveland? Uhm... yeah...

Portland traded almost every one of their veteran players, and has one of the youngest teams in the league.

That was the whole point: they traded their old players only AFTER holding onto them for several years too long. The time to rebuild was when they drafted Jermaine O'Neal, not after they got embarrassed by the Lakers in the playoffs three years in a row... But no, Portland was still too determined to try and compete, so they kept hanging around the fringe of the playoffs; they had to try and win NOW. And it was only after they finally got it through their heads that they weren't going to win it all with that team that they got rid of their veterans. And then they replaced their veterans with ****bags and malcontents: Stoudamire, Patterson, Miles, Van Exel, Telfair, Outlaw, Randolph. ****bags and malcontents, one and all. That's why their rebuild failed: they took too goddamned long... and we're on the verge of doing the exact same thing.

Memphis traded their franchise player at the time (Shareef), for a draft pick.

I don't get how you can say that's not rebuilding...

Becuase that's not re-building... that's BUILDING. They weren't RE-building, becuase they had never, ever gotten anywhere. It's not a rebuild if you never finished laying the foundation; Memphis is still on their first build.

 

[Vlade4GM]

i hope people know that the next two drafts are gonna be chalk full of potential superstars and if there is a right time to rebuild it's right freakin now. for the people saying that rebuilding doesn't always work out, well it's a lot better to be proactive and take a shot at it than stay mediocre for the next 4 years.

 

[Catalyst]

Said some stuff, snipped it for length...

You have some interesting perceptions.