Siranthony
Starter
To me he looks like the most exciting player in the draft. He is a bit under sized. He is quick, athletic and a good shooter though. He looks like a real competitor who could be spark off the bench in his first year.
What do you guys think of Terry Rozier?
- Thread starter Siranthony
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He's not a PG at the moment. Couple of times this year he had to play without Chris Jones, Cards' offense was miserable. And his offense has fallen off a cliff in Conference play. He's great in the open court though.
Dunn is better. Offensively he's his team's offense. Half of field goals Providence makes comes from Dunn's passes. You need to watch the game vs Villanova to gauge his value for the team. He plays defense in a zone that relies on him moving at the top of the arc and being active, so he would need to work on defensive fundamentals. Dunn also has SG size, which adds a lot of flexibility. Plus he was just named Big East POY and DPOY.
Problem is DX moved him into teens now, so people are catching up to the fact, that he's kinda good. Kings have a chance to get him, assuming they take a big in the lottery, only by lottery putting them into top-3 and then trading down. I would take WCS and Dunn over any one player in the draft.
Dunn is better. Offensively he's his team's offense. Half of field goals Providence makes comes from Dunn's passes. You need to watch the game vs Villanova to gauge his value for the team. He plays defense in a zone that relies on him moving at the top of the arc and being active, so he would need to work on defensive fundamentals. Dunn also has SG size, which adds a lot of flexibility. Plus he was just named Big East POY and DPOY.
Problem is DX moved him into teens now, so people are catching up to the fact, that he's kinda good. Kings have a chance to get him, assuming they take a big in the lottery, only by lottery putting them into top-3 and then trading down. I would take WCS and Dunn over any one player in the draft.
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That is my dream scenario. I hope we can win the lottery and Phily gets a pick outside of top 3...
Dunn is going to be a good PG. He turns the ball over too much, but I'm in love with his game. Hoes Elfrid Payton without the same defensive skills. He can still penetrate passing lanes, but he still has a way to go on defense.
If we win the lottery, hopefully we trade down. Some people love Karl Towns, but how much would he be able to help right now vs WCS and Dunn?
I like him as a 6th man type of player. He takes a lot of shots and he's a talented scorer. I think he gets drafted in the 2nd round so I wouldn't mind if we acquired one and drafted him.
I watched one of his earlier games, where he had 5 or 6 TOs, plus vs Kentucky early in the season and he was out of control a lot of times. Yesterday he played Villanova, who is an elite team, that can throw a lot of solid defenders of his size at him, so he didn't really shift defense, since Villanova was content with mostly single coverage on him, and Derosiers, shooting big, with whom Dunn often initiates offense off of P&P, wasn't playing great, or at least Villanova defended P&P very well, since they switch easily, but Dunn still got his 9 assists. Yes, there were a couple risky passes, that were picked up, but he was driving his team's offense all by himself. And comparing junior seasons for him and Payton:
per 100 possessions
Payton - 30 points on .551TS%, 9.4 rebounds, 9.3 assists, 5.7 TOs (1.64 ast/to ratio), 3.6 steals
Dunn - 28.5 points on .551TS%, 10.0 rebounds, 13.6 assists, 7.3 TOs (1.86 ast/to ratio), 5.0 steals
At some point ability to create bigger chunk of team's offense has to count for something. Then you get to notice, that Providence had 8th SOS in the country (would've been 4th last season), while ULL's was in the middle of second hundred (kenpom.com), so Dunn is clearly a superior offensive player, coming out of college. As for defense Payton is quicker, but Dunn is longer and is clearly capable of defending the ball. Anyway Orlando is allowing 1.08 ppp with him and 1.10 without him, so it's not like Payton has shown to be a really effective defender so far, it's more like he has exciting defensive possessions from time to time.
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My only huge problem with Dunn is that he does play erratic from time to time..which explains his TOs.
This Providence team HEAVILY relies on Dunn's ability to set up the offense. This also explains his TOs.. They have a talented scorer in LaDonate Henton, but he's far from a creator. Without Dunn, this is a below .500 team.
I think despite the numbers, Payton is a better pass/shot creator overall. However, it's pretty close.
Dunn is the much better offensive player. He's showing signs that he can hit 3pters at a decent rate. .347%. I think his FT shooting will improve in the NBA. Currently it's right under .700. So him being already the better offensive player, is a huge +++. Fun fact... Patyon shot 4-15 from the line on Friday.. that's beyond terrible! So yes I am a huge fan of Dunn, and I believe he has the higher ceiling between the two players.
He's risen all the way to 17 on DX. I believe the only way we draft Dunn is if we trade back. We aren't going to draft him in the top 10
randymoss1881
Starter
This isn't the nfl you don't trade down let alone trading a potential superstar for 2 role players.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Your joking, right? You don't think Karl Towns would help us more than Dunn. If, for some crazy reason we were to draft Dunn, how many minutes do you think he's going to get playing behind Collison, Miller, or even McCallum? We have a giant hole at our PF position. Towns is an elite shotblocker. He's a very good passer. He has a post game, and he can score away from the basket. He's a very good man defender. He would make an immediate impact on our team, and take a lot of pressure off of Cousins. I would take Towns first, and Cauley-Stein second ten times out of ten over Dunn. And I like Dunn. I don't get this infatuation with the PG position. We don't have a great need at the PG position, and the only way I would take one, unless I had a second first round pick, is if I'm sitting there in the third spot, and Towns is gone. Then I take Russell because he has all star written all over him. And believe me, it would be hard to pass on Cauley-Stein.
We've had a need for a rim protector for as long as I can remember. This is draft, if the gods are willing, where we can finally fill that need. Golden rule number one. When drafting and you have to choose between a good big man, and a good little man, you always, always, always, take the big man. That's assuming that the talent is equal. In the case of Dunn and Towns, its not. That's why Towns is considered by some to be the number one pick in the draft, and Dunn is considered a mid first round pick. By the way, I have Jerian Grant ahead of Dunn on my board. Not by much, but he turns the ball over a lot less
I'm pretty sure he meant trade dow to get BOTH Cauley-Stein and Dunn.
That said, I think I would take any of Grant/Wright/Jones before Dunn.
I'd trade down because this team needs talent. Why not get 2 talents instead of 1? I didn't say anything about drafting Dunn over WCS, I just think that if we win the lottery, we should trade down so we can acquire 2 very good draftees.
Our PG position is mediocre. Collison is in the bottom half of starting PGs. Miller may possibly retire soon. McCallum is a decent bench guard. If we can upgrade PG, why don't we would be the question. McCallum and Miller are two PGs who probably wouldn't be on 1/2 of other NBA rosters, and Collison is most likely a backup on 3/4 NBA rosters.
PF is a position of need for this team, no doubt. I think we need more talent to this roster, and maybe Towns is better than two?
...The last time we took a big over a little guy, we got T-Rob.. and Portland got Lillard..
I have a question Bajaden. Does WCS's fouling concern you at all? He's an amazing defender, but he gets away with a lot of tick tack fouls that will be called against him in the NBA(considering he'll be a rookie, and won't play in Kentucky anymore). I think that's something he'll adjust to in the NBA.
Tyus Jones? I think the debate for me is between Grant and Dunn.
Jones is a bit undersized, and his defense is probably going to need some work.
Wright is a meh type of PG. He's not a player that will take over games.. he's a nice scorer, but struggles shooting. He's a good passer, but struggles creating. He has good defensive tools though. But I think at the end of the day, his offense is just meh and falls him short of the other two.
Grant vs Dunn is an interesting debate. I like both PGs. However, I don't think it's realistic to expect Grant available in the late teens or 20s.. which is why I just went with Dunn. He had a terrible showing today, while Grant had a good one. Just in short, I think Dunn has the higher ceiling, but Grant is the more NBA ready player right now.
However, I think it's worth noting that Grant played next to a PG in Demetrius Jackson, and Dunn turns the ball over at one of the highest rates...Also worth noting to compare the support cast each player had
It's not just about the level of supporting cast, we should also look at what type of guys he has around him. Grant is surrounded by shooters, so it's very often, that he gets to the rim and there's little resistance, because teams can't collapse on him. Dunn often finishes with 3 guys around the rim. Vs Dayton Henton went for a ton of bricks, Dayton defended Dunn's limited P&R options well, so he had to go attacking the basket, or rather turning over, trying attacking the basket. Dunn is good, but he's not good enough to attack basically box-and-one with no shooters around him. Still despite a bright future, he clearly has problems with decision-making, so I wouldn't rely on him as a main cog in the near future, at least as a rookie.
As for Towns with bigger bodies on him his post game turns into pumpkin, and it's not like he can drive from high post, plus he can't box out big bodies, so KAT's game becomes rather close to Caulie-Stein's, and WCS is better at it.
As for Towns with bigger bodies on him his post game turns into pumpkin, and it's not like he can drive from high post, plus he can't box out big bodies, so KAT's game becomes rather close to Caulie-Stein's, and WCS is better at it.
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