What Did I Miss

[quick dog]

I thought that Coach Popovic ripped Manu Ginobili last night, then I read the "Dish" article on the Kings web page.

Random Thoughts…

Spurs Coach Gregg Popovich really laid into Tony Parker at one point in the second half, screaming at him on the bench for a blown defensive assignment. We didn’t see much of Parker after that, who was benched in favor of rookie Beno Udrih.
Did Pop rip Tony Parker, or was this writer smoking dope up in the boxes?

Bad form Pop.

 

[VF21]

It was Manu...

 

[VF21]

Oh wait. The screaming at Manu was in the first half, I think. I mentioned it in the PBP.

So maybe Pop did rip both of them. I know some think it's okay, but I do not think there is any real benefit to those kinds of tirades. In fact, I think it diminishes the player AND the coach when it happens. There's an old saying about raising children that says: "Praise in public; discipline in private." I think, for the most part, that's very wise advice and something "Pop" might want to consider.

 

[fishgirl]

I know some think it's okay, but I do not think there is any real benefit to those kinds of tirades. In fact, I think it diminishes the player AND the coach when it happens.

I agree. I just don't see any pluses in that.

 

[Mad D]

This was also from the inside dish, i thought it was kinda funny:

''There was a weird moment in the second half when Doug Christie subbed in for Martin and the two slapped hands at midcourt. It was almost like older Doug was coming back in for younger Doug—older Doug had a more chiseled physique and a bald head while younger Doug had a nice, full head of hair and looked fresh out of high school.''

 

[Padrino]

Oh wait. The screaming at Manu was in the first half, I think. I mentioned it in the PBP.

So maybe Pop did rip both of them. I know some think it's okay, but I do not think there is any real benefit to those kinds of tirades. In fact, I think it diminishes the player AND the coach when it happens. There's an old saying about raising children that says: "Praise in public; discipline in private." I think, for the most part, that's very wise advice and something "Pop" might want to consider.

im not sure what to make of "those kinds of tirades" myself. i mean, im not an nba player, or an nba coach, so i have no idea what kindof effects it has on either. i will say tho, that the spurs are winning. theyve been winning under pop for a while now, and not cuz he was soft on these guys. suffice it to say that manu didnt miss another defensive assigment the rest of the night after pop lit into him. im not saying its a good idea for coaches to rip into players the way pop does, and im not saying its a bad idea. i think it really depends on the team and the players. im just saying the spurs are a winning team, one of the winningest in the nba at the moment, and gregg popovic (sp?) is among the winningest active coaches in the nba today.

 

[VF21]

im not sure what to make of "those kinds of tirades" myself. i mean, im not an nba player, or an nba coach, so i have no idea what kindof effects it has on either. i will say tho, that the spurs are winning. theyve been winning under pop for a while now, and not cuz he was soft on these guys. suffice it to say that manu didnt miss another defensive assigment the rest of the night after pop lit into him. im not saying its a good idea for coaches to rip into players the way pop does, and im not saying its a bad idea. i think it really depends on the team and the players. im just saying the spurs are a winning team, one of the winningest in the nba at the moment, and gregg popovic (sp?) is among the winningest active coaches in the nba today.

Pop is a fantastic coach. His knowledge of the game is astounding; his ability to adapt very quickly to the ebb and flow of the game is probably one of the best around.

I don't think the Spurs are a winning team because of Pop's tirades. I think they're a winning team because of his tremendous talents and knowlege and despite his occasional outbursts.

But I could be wrong...it could be because he's such a pain in the patoot when he's angry that the players do everything they can to avoid the screaming.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

The Bobby Knight effect

 

[patrick204]

coaching rituals

I think players and coaches develop (like families) distinctive styles that they get used to, even when they are dysfunctional. And ironically they miss and feel lost without the abuse.

In practice this means that it would be hard for Popovich to change his style without disturbing the Spurs individual motivations. They probably take the abuse as well meant criticism at times and they play harder. Other times they take the abuse as a motivational anger focus. They'll show him.

A different coach can probably get similar effects with much smaller investments of anger.

 

[Padrino]

Pop is a fantastic coach. His knowledge of the game is astounding; his ability to adapt very quickly to the ebb and flow of the game is probably one of the best around.

I don't think the Spurs are a winning team because of Pop's tirades. I think they're a winning team because of his tremendous talents and knowlege and despite his occasional outbursts.

i totally agree with you. he's a fantastic coach. im just saying that some players respond to their coaches better in certain situations. maybe if pop calls a timeout, and calmly tells manu exactly what he did wrong, manu reacts in the same manner and plays his heart out the rest of the game, not missing any defensive assignments. but then again, maybe he doesnt. my point is, no matter how wrong or counterproductive it may seem, its one of the reasons pop commands so much respect. the players respond to it, cuz they know they will likely eat his words in practice if they dont perform on the court. that is obviously just an assumption, but i like to think it makes sense.

now, this only works for the spurs because pop has been this way his entire career as a coach. if RA all of a sudden started drilling his guys in the middle of games, it would be VERY counterproductive, and damaging to both the players and coaches relationaships with each other. cuz lets face it, adelman is a soft coach, and gives his players a lot of freedom. thats just the way he coaches, and i think our players respond well to that. they wouldnt respond well to adelman screaming at them the entire game. but thats just my outlook on it.

 

[quick dog]

Very interesting comments from everyone. Like VF21, I think it looks wrong, but I'm not sure.

 

[VF21]

Padrino -

You missed the sneaky addition I was able to make to my post...

Bottom line? I sure can't fault the results even though I'm not impressed with some of the technique.

 

[Padrino]

Padrino -

You missed the sneaky addition I was able to make to my post...

Bottom line? I sure can't fault the results even though I'm not impressed with some of the technique.

yes i did. that was a dirty trick.

i actually agree with you in part, but in the end im not really sure to make of it. hey, theyre winning, so he must be doing something right. that defense is just incredible. tho i like to think that if the kings hadnt turned the ball over so many times, we would have easily scored above the 85 pt average that SA holds their opponents to.

 

[HndsmCelt]

After a brief discussion last night on this topic I will submit Manu as an example. Pop got into his grill one one one on the bench afare he made two consecutive mistakes in assingments. Some folks thought he was out of line and I thought he was right on. In the second half Manu's game was much more tightly focused. Obviously the dressing down did not destroy his confidence or hurt his attitude. Did it help... who knows? There is a fine line between getting on a player who is not palying up to his/her potnetial and being an obnoxious jerk ala Bobby Knight. Pop walks the line better than any in the book and that might have something to do with his record.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Interesting sidetrek, my cousin owns a string of Dominos around the Texas area, one time Bobby Knight called him up and chewed him out for not delivering high quality pizza. I wonder how many aspects of his life Bobby Knight applies his attitude to.

P.S. as the story is told from my cousin, there was not a noticible increase or decrease in quality of pizza after the call.

 

[Bricklayer]

After a brief discussion last night on this topic I will submit Manu as an example. Pop got into his grill one one one on the bench afare he made two consecutive mistakes in assingments. Some folks thought he was out of line and I thought he was right on. In the second half Manu's game was much more tightly focused. Obviously the dressing down did not destroy his confidence or hurt his attitude. Did it help... who knows? There is a fine line between getting on a player who is not palying up to his/her potnetial and being an obnoxious jerk ala Bobby Knight. Pop walks the line better than any in the book and that might have something to do with his record.

You will submit Manu as an example of what exactly? A very good player who played very good? Perhaps an an example of a player coached by a yelling and screaming jackass who's team was outhustled and outworked by a far more respectful coach who trusts his players?

The Spurs have along history of meltdowns behind them. Could it be because their coach inspires zero confidence in them?

Manu plays about as hard as any player in the league. He is about the LAST player who ever deserves to be publicly humiliated. Its the equivalent of Rick pulling Bobby aside and screaming at him for an entire timeout. Where exactly would he get off?

I generally respect Pop -- for the simple reason that he can NOT be as big of a jerk as he seems and still get results. But he was out of control last night. he went too far. And then his team lost. There might be a lesson there.

 

[HndsmCelt]

You will submit Manu as an example of what exactly? A very good player who played very good? Perhaps an an example of a player coached by a yelling and screaming jackass who's team was outhustled and outworked by a far more respectful coach who trusts his players?

The Spurs have along history of meltdowns behind them. Could it be because their coach inspires zero confidence in them?

Manu plays about as hard as any player in the league. He is about the LAST player who ever deserves to be publicly humiliated. Its the equivalent of Rick pulling Bobby aside and screaming at him for an entire timeout. Where exactly would he get off?

I generally respect Pop -- for the simple reason that he can NOT be as big of a jerk as he seems and still get results. But he was out of control last night. he went too far. And then his team lost. There might be a lesson there.

Bah! You and I both know perfectly well that there is no way to proove that Pop's penchant for semi-public butt chewing's cannot be proven toeither inspire or destroy the team. I submit Manu's post postier mastication performance as a single piece of evidence that in this case Pop did not destroy a good players confidence. To argue entier team melt down is or might be teh result of Pop's tirades is not much better than conjecture. To be both fair and realistic I suppose yeling at players has differnent results at different times with differnt playersand combinations of players. To the teams credit they seem to select even tempered palyers taht can function in Pop's systm which requires players respect Pop and take his tirades. These players are few and far between these days, but the Spurs have the luxury of picking and choosing Parkers, Duncans, Ginolbies and passing on Iversons, Kobies and Spreewells.

 

[quick dog]

I have never seen an effective superior that goes off like that. I suppose that Popovic is a great coach. I suppose that Knight was a great coach, but I think it's a poor way to behave. I think Adelman is the better man, stronger and more stable. A better example. I spent many years of my life trying to control my temper. I did much better than some professional coaches.

Was it Bobby Jackson, Lawrence Funderburke, or both that left Indiana University to get away from that a-hole?

 

[VF21]

What I saw last night was a well-respected coach go over the line in trying to get his point across to a player. Yes, he's always yelled and gestured, etc. but this time I think he went a little too far.

Part of what makes Manu Ginobli so exciting to watch is his spirit. He certainly didn't show any of that after the dressing-down he received from Pop. When Manu came back onto the court he looked thoroughly miserable. AND the team didn't win.

I firmly believe Pop went too far.

 

[Evenstar]

i didn't see the tirade, but i know that pop does have his moments. i personally have no problem with it ( LOL thats probably because i've never been on the recieving end of one )

many players today seem to think they are bigger then the game, it's all about them ( *cough* kobe *cough* AI *cough* ) it's all about money, and me me me me etc. i personally like the fact that someone gets into their grill and lets them know who's boss. now did manu deserve this tirade??? i dunno, i didn't see the game. manu probably didn't, but there are sure a lot of people who could use a good swift kick in the *** to let them know who's the boss. i see nothing wrong with putting someone in their place.

i hear pop is one of the nicest guys off the court, that the all the spurs players just love him. i guess the tirade is his alter ego, on the court.

 

[PejaFanatic]

If I remember correctly, Ginobli got scold right after he made a quick shot and missed and as a result, the Kings made a basket on the other side.

Pop was screaming his lungs (a little bit of exaggerate there but you get the point) off at Ginobli. He sat there and took it.

I just don’t see the point to embarrass your players for the public to see.

 

[VF21]

Evenstar - If you didn't see the game, you can't imagine how hostile Pop looked. He didn't just yell. He got right in Manu's face, screaming at him and gesturing wildly at the court. And the look on Manu's face when he came back into the game later spoke volumes. He really looked as though he would rather be just about anywhere else.

Professional athletes are like spirited horses. You may have to be firm with them, but you have to be careful not to break that spirit. I think Pop came very close to pushing Manu into a place he didn't want to be.

 

[fishgirl]

Very interesting points. I guess it also depends on the kind of working environment and relationship between player and coach. In Pop's case, as much as he is a respected coach, I still don't favor his style... then again, he must know what he's doing, as his record would prove.

 

[piksi]

Pop would yell at his mother during the game. No need to blow this out of proportions

 

[Evenstar]

Evenstar - If you didn't see the game, you can't imagine how hostile Pop looked. He didn't just yell. He got right in Manu's face, screaming at him and gesturing wildly at the court. And the look on Manu's face when he came back into the game later spoke volumes. He really looked as though he would rather be just about anywhere else.

Professional athletes are like spirited horses. You may have to be firm with them, but you have to be careful not to break that spirit. I think Pop came very close to pushing Manu into a place he didn't want to be.

i'll go along with that. now i'm curious to see this tirade......

 

[Twix]

Gary Gerald said on the radio that Gregg Popovich had military background? Could be a reason why he does that to his players??

 

[HndsmCelt]

Gary Gerald said on the radio that Gregg Popovich had military background? Could be a reason why he does that to his players??

Yup

 

[jeffjcalweb]

pops nba titles:2

guess a little yelling & screaming may not be such a bad thing every now & then??

he probably would have had 3 if not for a very lucky d. fisher shot, but whatever.

i'll take the two titles over a "nice guy" who hasn't won one ...

 

[uolj]

pops nba titles:2

guess a little yelling & screaming may not be such a bad thing every now & then??

he probably would have had 3 if not for a very lucky d. fisher shot, but whatever.

i'll take the two titles over a "nice guy" who hasn't won one ...

Things are never that simple, though. What you are really saying is that you would take the Spurs over the Kings. Deciding whether Popovich is better than Adelman requires a lot more than just looking at results. They have coached different teams with different players.

 

[webberfan]

I have never seen an effective superior that goes off like that. I suppose that Popovic is a great coach. I suppose that Knight was a great coach, but I think it's a poor way to behave. I think Adelman is the better man, stronger and more stable. A better example. I spent many years of my life trying to control my temper. I did much better than some professional coaches.

Was it Bobby Jackson, Lawrence Funderburke, or both that left Indiana University to get away from that a-hole?

i thought bobby went to minnesota and lawrence when to ohio state.