What an abysmal offseason.
- Thread starter nikefutbolero
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Not to sound negative but just seeing if I’m in minority on this of strongly preferring Bruce Brown on a 4 yr /$70 million sort of deal over Harrison Barnes? I think he’d fit in seamlessly at the 3’ in the starting unit, much better defender than Barnes and will age better with core. Cant go back now though
heck I think if they got creative they probably could have both?
heck I think if they got creative they probably could have both?
A lot of us thought Bruce Brown would be a good target but he got 2/45 and I don't think any of us had him pegged that high.
Which again, there was really stupid money thrown out this offseason and there will be regrets. I am not sure the Kings will have too much regret over any money they gave this year barring unforeseeable injury.
Which again, there was really stupid money thrown out this offseason and there will be regrets. I am not sure the Kings will have too much regret over any money they gave this year barring unforeseeable injury.
All I know is that we have improved the roster. We are better than last year. But so are the Suns, warriors and lakers 
Remember, at the deadline last season most thought all the teams making moves got better too. But it didn’t happen that way for all.
This is it right here. Monte is extremely big on flexibility. That is likely both short and long term flexibility. Trading the pick to get rid of the Holmes contract gave them many more potential options to assemble the roster through free agency and trades. I doubt where they ended up was necessarily the only plan, but one of several scenarios that could have unfolded. You take that flexibility to give yourself a chance. Plus, regardless of whether they potentially could have done all the moves with Holmes salary still on the books, they are clearly in a better salary cap position at this point.
I’d guess when pick 24 came up, they looked at their draft board and figured there would still be someone available in the second round that they liked equally as much as who they could have picked at 24. Who knows, maybe if the blazers don’t take Murray they would have picked him, but I have my doubts.
I’d guess when pick 24 came up, they looked at their draft board and figured there would still be someone available in the second round that they liked equally as much as who they could have picked at 24. Who knows, maybe if the blazers don’t take Murray they would have picked him, but I have my doubts.
Thank the basketball gods for that, however it all worked out.
To retain my faith in MM, I’m gonna choose to believe that he never held any real interest in Kuzma and that it was just “false rumors” or misdirection from the get go.
To retain my faith in MM, I’m gonna choose to believe that he never held any real interest in Kuzma and that it was just “false rumors” or misdirection from the get go.
First off, while Bruce Brown did a phenomenal job in his role in Denver, I feel he is being overrated drastically. I mean, c’mon, he just played with an MVP candidate that led the team to a title.
What had Bruce Brown ever done before playing in Denver with what turned out to be the best team this past season? He’s a good player, no doubt, but let’s not pretend that Denver couldn’t have won the title with HB there instead of Brown. Wasn’t HB also part of a title winner while also playing with an MVP in Steph Curry?
I don’t buy that Brown is a “much better defender” than HB, but for arguments sake let’s say that he is. HB is a much better offensive player than Brown. And I’d argue the better “all-around“ player on both ends. Furthermore, HB is a legit 6’8 wing player with a 6’11 span while Brown is 6’4 with a 6’9 span. They are different types of players with different strengths and weaknesses.
Considering HB’s presence in the locker room, his proven ability to also be part of a title winner with the right cast, the fact that he’s the more balanced all-around player, and that he took a discount to stay in SAC and earns less than Brown now places me firmly on the side of preferring HB.
It’s continues to amaze me how underrated HB is among KINGS fans. I get that he isn’t a “super star” but he’s an above average NBA player that is good on both ends. He does most things really well, including shoot the 3 at an above average rate, and is a high IQ basketball player. Furthermore, he is coveted around the league (because he’s such a solid all-around player and chemistry fit) yet most KINGS fans treat him as if he’s a one-dimensional scrub.
He’s not a black hole on offense and doesn’t demand volume shots. He’s the ultimate glue guy on offense that actually can defend. Clearly, very under appreciated.
This ain’t some volume chucking, defensive liability were talking about here.
What had Bruce Brown ever done before playing in Denver with what turned out to be the best team this past season? He’s a good player, no doubt, but let’s not pretend that Denver couldn’t have won the title with HB there instead of Brown. Wasn’t HB also part of a title winner while also playing with an MVP in Steph Curry?
I don’t buy that Brown is a “much better defender” than HB, but for arguments sake let’s say that he is. HB is a much better offensive player than Brown. And I’d argue the better “all-around“ player on both ends. Furthermore, HB is a legit 6’8 wing player with a 6’11 span while Brown is 6’4 with a 6’9 span. They are different types of players with different strengths and weaknesses.
Considering HB’s presence in the locker room, his proven ability to also be part of a title winner with the right cast, the fact that he’s the more balanced all-around player, and that he took a discount to stay in SAC and earns less than Brown now places me firmly on the side of preferring HB.
It’s continues to amaze me how underrated HB is among KINGS fans. I get that he isn’t a “super star” but he’s an above average NBA player that is good on both ends. He does most things really well, including shoot the 3 at an above average rate, and is a high IQ basketball player. Furthermore, he is coveted around the league (because he’s such a solid all-around player and chemistry fit) yet most KINGS fans treat him as if he’s a one-dimensional scrub.
He’s not a black hole on offense and doesn’t demand volume shots. He’s the ultimate glue guy on offense that actually can defend. Clearly, very under appreciated.
This ain’t some volume chucking, defensive liability were talking about here.
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I'll be curious to see how OMax does. When Ozymandias started mentioning him as a candidate for our late 2nd rounder I watched tape and really liked him. He reminded me a bit of Dorian Finney-Smith or maybe a more athletic but worse rebounding Jarred Vanderbilt. I started loving the idea of nabbing him at 54 since at the time he was going undrafted on most mocks. The few that had him at all had him in the mid to late 50's.
After the combine he was getting early 2nd round buzz and I was still okay with taking him with our early 2nd. Once he started getting first round buzz, I wasn't as enthusiastic of using the 24th pick on him. I don't think he'll fail. He's too athletic and he already has a role player's mentality. It's just a question of how good he can be, and that will largely hinge on becoming a consistent outside shooter. That, and I think his rebounding needs to improve.
After the combine he was getting early 2nd round buzz and I was still okay with taking him with our early 2nd. Once he started getting first round buzz, I wasn't as enthusiastic of using the 24th pick on him. I don't think he'll fail. He's too athletic and he already has a role player's mentality. It's just a question of how good he can be, and that will largely hinge on becoming a consistent outside shooter. That, and I think his rebounding needs to improve.
I’m not in love with the off-season thus far nor am I going to go out of my way to bash it like it’s the worst off-season I’ve ever witnessed.
I posted awhile back that our approach should be to prioritize finding that 3rd “star” to put next to Fox and Sabonis (and ideally this player would push Sabonis into a 3rd option/facilitator role). Now that didn’t mean we needed to find that player this off-season but you at the very least make moves that make it easier for you to acquire that type of player someday. With that in mind, the prudent thing to do would be to hold onto all of our young, tradeable assets/picks until we know if Murray will or will not become that 3rd star. Essentially there would be 3 outcomes:
Trading #24 away contradicted the approach above as I would have preferred to keep #24 as another potential trade asset to help facilitate a trade for a 3rd star (if Murray doesn’t become one).
If we didn’t make the Holmes/#24 and Duarte trades and waived Dozier/Edwards, we could have…
If we didn’t make the Holmes/#24 and Duarte trades, traded #24 for a future 1st round pick, and waived Dozier/Edwards), we could have…
Now would Sabonis have signed for that amount? We have no way of knowing but it’s still in the ballpark of what he got so perhaps? But I’m not going to stand here and overly criticize the moves McNair made as there is a lot of information we are not privy to.
Again, it’s not been my favorite off-season. I would have preferred a way to keep that asset whether it was drafting at #24 or trading it for a future 1st so we’d have a bit more cap space to extend Sabonis (and another asset to help facilitate a deal for a 3rd star). However, we didn’t make any catastrophic errors so I’m not going to sit here and try to make them bigger than they are just for the sake of being polarizing.
I posted awhile back that our approach should be to prioritize finding that 3rd “star” to put next to Fox and Sabonis (and ideally this player would push Sabonis into a 3rd option/facilitator role). Now that didn’t mean we needed to find that player this off-season but you at the very least make moves that make it easier for you to acquire that type of player someday. With that in mind, the prudent thing to do would be to hold onto all of our young, tradeable assets/picks until we know if Murray will or will not become that 3rd star. Essentially there would be 3 outcomes:
- If Murray doesn’t really improve over last year and we feel increasingly pessimistic that he can’t be that 3rd star player. At that point, you’ll be happy you kept your assets so you could look to package them in a trade for that type of player.
- If Murray takes a step forward but not quite a star, perhaps we wait another year before selling off our assets to make a final determination on Murray’s trajectory.
- If Murray looks like a fringe star this season, perhaps we consider trading some of those assets immediately for players that better complement a big 3 of Fox-Murray-Sabonis.
Trading #24 away contradicted the approach above as I would have preferred to keep #24 as another potential trade asset to help facilitate a trade for a 3rd star (if Murray doesn’t become one).
If we didn’t make the Holmes/#24 and Duarte trades and waived Dozier/Edwards, we could have…
- Resigned Barnes to $54 mil/3 years
- Resigned Lyles by utilizing his cap hold
- Signed Sasha to the room exception
- Given Sabonis a $199.4 mil extension (instead of $217)
If we didn’t make the Holmes/#24 and Duarte trades, traded #24 for a future 1st round pick, and waived Dozier/Edwards), we could have…
- Resigned Barnes to $54 mil/3 years
- Resigned Lyles by utilizing his cap hold
- Signed Sasha to the room exception
- Given Sabonis a $211.3 mil extension (instead of $217)
Now would Sabonis have signed for that amount? We have no way of knowing but it’s still in the ballpark of what he got so perhaps? But I’m not going to stand here and overly criticize the moves McNair made as there is a lot of information we are not privy to.
Again, it’s not been my favorite off-season. I would have preferred a way to keep that asset whether it was drafting at #24 or trading it for a future 1st so we’d have a bit more cap space to extend Sabonis (and another asset to help facilitate a deal for a 3rd star). However, we didn’t make any catastrophic errors so I’m not going to sit here and try to make them bigger than they are just for the sake of being polarizing.
If the Kings sign Torrey Craig, I think that rounds out the roster. The only remaining decision would be whether to guarantee PJ Dozier's deal to add extra guard depth or to sign Queta (or another center) to have extra center depth.
I think they'll do the latter, though the former would be a good indication that the team expects to give Lyles minutes at the 5 regularly.
But
C Sabonis/Len/Queta (?)
PF Barnes/Lyles/Vezenkov
SF Murray/Craig/Edwards
SG Huerter/Monk/Duarte/Jones
PG Fox/Mitchell/Dozier (?)
is a DEEP team. And some possible developmental projects in Ellis, Slawson and Stephens. All three are older players so it shouldn't take too long to see if there's something there with any or all of them.
This team is still in trouble if Sabonis or Fox go down for an extended stretch, but they should be able to better weather normal injuries fairly well and not have to be outlier healthy to make the playoffs.
EDIT: Craig signed with the Bulls.
I think they'll do the latter, though the former would be a good indication that the team expects to give Lyles minutes at the 5 regularly.
But
C Sabonis/Len/Queta (?)
PF Barnes/Lyles/Vezenkov
SF Murray/Craig/Edwards
SG Huerter/Monk/Duarte/Jones
PG Fox/Mitchell/Dozier (?)
is a DEEP team. And some possible developmental projects in Ellis, Slawson and Stephens. All three are older players so it shouldn't take too long to see if there's something there with any or all of them.
This team is still in trouble if Sabonis or Fox go down for an extended stretch, but they should be able to better weather normal injuries fairly well and not have to be outlier healthy to make the playoffs.
EDIT: Craig signed with the Bulls.
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This time the bar is going to be a little higher though. Right, wrong, or indifferent, if the Kings sputter a little it's going to be chaos haha. The truth is though that Monte didn't run it back on just flat out immovable contracts. I think this is very much in line with his draft plan B's. Just go with the value and create assets. The initial concern on his drafts was it was one of those what the heck is he thinking kind of things drafting 2 lottery PG's with a star PG on his roster. The downside is that he just about had to crush Fox's value in the eyes of everyone (remember a lot of fans willing to trade Fox for a bag of chips practically? lol) to raise trade value for others but he timed it right thankfully. But that was definitely 11th hour stuff. Better to be too early than to late on that kind of thing. The Kings advantage over more talented teams is continuity so it has to be there from day 1.
Well in the end Brown actually got more money than that per year. He's 20+ per season for 2 years which doing that on role guys unless they are last piece kind of players usually turns out lackluster. Barnes as long as he continues to have the same role could be a great asset moving forward. You can either trade the pieces around him, or use him as a piece if need be.
The big concern is still that Monte didn't, at least on paper, do anything to eliminate the necessity of having to stagger Fox and Domas. This is still basically a 2 star combo in a league of 3-4 star combos. Monk, Keegan, and Sasha have some pressure on them to close that gap. Sasha's the wildcard because if he's as legit as he looks that could be your 3rd/4th star right there.
Agreed but the two NBA finals teams were both 2 star teams if you count Adebayo as a star.
I think it's going to be on Keegan's shoulders but probably in 2025. Monk to a lesser extent. I'm not relying on anything from Sasha. If he can give us the same production as Bjelica did in his first couple years in Sac, I'd be more than happy.
I think it's going to be on Keegan's shoulders but probably in 2025. Monk to a lesser extent. I'm not relying on anything from Sasha. If he can give us the same production as Bjelica did in his first couple years in Sac, I'd be more than happy.
I would say underwhelming just in the sense that we didn’t address some of the needs that most of us have been talking about since the trade deadline, which is defense and rebounding.
These weaknesses (mainly rebounding with Looney) were exposed in the playoffs, and it seemed like to take the next step, those needs would likely have to be addressed.
I still think we need an upgrade over Len at the backup 5 spot. I think Len is a situational play for some of the big guys, but he’s too lumbering and slow to guard some of the more athletic big men. I’m a big fan of Lyles, but I think he’s better as an offensive floor spacer than a defense/rebounding guy.
Again, I’ll absolutely acknowledge that I’m not sure the perfect guys were out there this summer and I absolutely think Monte and company also see these roster gaps, but I was definitely hopeful that we’d go into the season with a couple of better complimentary players, and I’m not sure that happened.
These weaknesses (mainly rebounding with Looney) were exposed in the playoffs, and it seemed like to take the next step, those needs would likely have to be addressed.
I still think we need an upgrade over Len at the backup 5 spot. I think Len is a situational play for some of the big guys, but he’s too lumbering and slow to guard some of the more athletic big men. I’m a big fan of Lyles, but I think he’s better as an offensive floor spacer than a defense/rebounding guy.
Again, I’ll absolutely acknowledge that I’m not sure the perfect guys were out there this summer and I absolutely think Monte and company also see these roster gaps, but I was definitely hopeful that we’d go into the season with a couple of better complimentary players, and I’m not sure that happened.
Brown's deal with Indy doesn't make any sense to me and based on it I don't think we could've gotten him. Making $22.5mm per is obviously the biggest single-season number he got but only a single guaranteed year seems like a bad gamble. Especially because if he ends up loving Indy and gels with Tyrese he's right back in the same spot of being forced to move in 2 years because they can't pay him.
We probably could've fit Barnes and Brown on those types of deals but seems like that's not what he was going for. He's likely gonna try to show out on the Pacers and then gun for a 9-figure deal. Even 3 years with us at $54mm might've been smarter but it's his future if he wants to gamble on himself.
We probably could've fit Barnes and Brown on those types of deals but seems like that's not what he was going for. He's likely gonna try to show out on the Pacers and then gun for a 9-figure deal. Even 3 years with us at $54mm might've been smarter but it's his future if he wants to gamble on himself.
Awesome news! I finally completed that time machine I've been working on in my garage! Just got back from March 2024 and Monte just turned down multiple trade offers for Keegan Murray which included Paul George, Jerami Grant, + first round draft picks. Over the past 20 games Keegan is Averaging 20+ points, 45% 3pt, and playing great D against both 3s and stretch 4s.
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We didn't see many minutes without Fox and Domas last year because there was too much pressure on every game in the regular season mattering and just making the playoffs. There was a sense that there were no games where you could risk experimenting. I think that was bolstered by the 0-4 start and being in a hole early on.
But I think Brown sees what we all see. In order to maximize this team and make it a true championship contender, there has to be a true third playmaker, and there needs to be some minutes where Fox and Domas both sit (so that they can play together more minutes). The stagger won't work forever. Having lived the playoffs, my guess is that Brown will spend more regular season minutes experimenting with non-Fox and Domas lineups, and worry less about quarter by quarter results (and even game by game results, at least to an extent).
I think there are some pieces who could helps us survive 10-12 non-Domas and Fox minutes per game. I think it all starts with Monk. He has the most natural ability to lead the offense in those minutes, and he can get his and also create. I think Davion has a decent ability to make a bit of offense, and hopefully he is growing that part of his game too. Huerter has also shown a bit as a secondary handler, and he has a bit of a float game and drive game that is not totally dependent on Domas. The Barnes iso game also fits well in these minutes. I am not sure why you couldn't run 3-4 Barnes iso sets over a 6 minute period to get Domas and Fox some rest. You could even run some pick and roll (Len) and pick and pop (Lyles) with Davion, Monk, and Huerter all creating a bit off the bounce. Maybe someone like Dozier or Jones cracks the rotation in the 10th spot. They both seem to have at least a bit of playmaking in them. But the real key is Keegan. If he can show more ability to get his own, or work off of someone like Monk, Huerter, or Davion, that will really help us a ton. I honestly think he will get there and moot this whole conversation. He just needs to be put in those situations and sink or swin.
So I think there are potential options to steady the non-Domas and Fox minutes. Brown just needs to be more willing to experiment and take bad results with the good. Maybe we lose a few games early in the season, but we get a clearer picture of what type of offense we can run without our two starts for 12 minutes per game. We never really got that start last year with the 0-4 start and the pressure to win every game and make the playoffs.
But I think Brown sees what we all see. In order to maximize this team and make it a true championship contender, there has to be a true third playmaker, and there needs to be some minutes where Fox and Domas both sit (so that they can play together more minutes). The stagger won't work forever. Having lived the playoffs, my guess is that Brown will spend more regular season minutes experimenting with non-Fox and Domas lineups, and worry less about quarter by quarter results (and even game by game results, at least to an extent).
I think there are some pieces who could helps us survive 10-12 non-Domas and Fox minutes per game. I think it all starts with Monk. He has the most natural ability to lead the offense in those minutes, and he can get his and also create. I think Davion has a decent ability to make a bit of offense, and hopefully he is growing that part of his game too. Huerter has also shown a bit as a secondary handler, and he has a bit of a float game and drive game that is not totally dependent on Domas. The Barnes iso game also fits well in these minutes. I am not sure why you couldn't run 3-4 Barnes iso sets over a 6 minute period to get Domas and Fox some rest. You could even run some pick and roll (Len) and pick and pop (Lyles) with Davion, Monk, and Huerter all creating a bit off the bounce. Maybe someone like Dozier or Jones cracks the rotation in the 10th spot. They both seem to have at least a bit of playmaking in them. But the real key is Keegan. If he can show more ability to get his own, or work off of someone like Monk, Huerter, or Davion, that will really help us a ton. I honestly think he will get there and moot this whole conversation. He just needs to be put in those situations and sink or swin.
So I think there are potential options to steady the non-Domas and Fox minutes. Brown just needs to be more willing to experiment and take bad results with the good. Maybe we lose a few games early in the season, but we get a clearer picture of what type of offense we can run without our two starts for 12 minutes per game. We never really got that start last year with the 0-4 start and the pressure to win every game and make the playoffs.
The difference with the Nuggets is they do have a top 5 if not top 3 player in the league along with a legit poor mans Curry type in Murray, and MPJ and Gordon with it. Miami is a unique situation. The fact was that we saw what happened come playoff time for the Kings when Fox was left alone on an island. He had to carry way more than he should and the stagger went away as Fox's minutes creeped towards 40 per. Also while Miami was an 8th seed for a reason they still had a top 10 defense and are built totally different than Sac. If Domas were a switch lockdown big like Bam the defense on the Kings would likely be just as potent immediately.
I agree that Keegan is the third star in the making. And I think he gets there and blows us all away. But I think it is realistic to also think he might not be a third start this year. I think his game will grow, but I am not sure he is going to be a guy who can take over a game on his own THIS YEAR. So if we want to go further this year, I think it is imperative that we find a way to sit Domas and Fox together for 12 minutes per game so that we can maximize their minutes together. Doing that (limiting the Domas/Fox minute stagger) requires a plan to generate offense in those minutes. I think Keegan will be part of that plan this year, and maybe the main part of that plan for years to come, but I think there needs to be more than just Keegan in those minutes, especially this year (see my post above about how you can utilize Monk, HB, and others in those minutes).
I have a feeling Monk and Sasha are going to be an explosive offensive combo if Fox and Domas are off the floor. This is where we need key defenders. A lineup of Davion, Monk, Kessler, Sasha, and defensive big (Len?)... sounds like one heck of a bench squad... given that all those players continue on the improvement trajectory they displayed last year, and Sasha's game does indeed translate.
I just think Monte has done an excellent job constructing the roster, and there are fewer holes than some people think.
Let's see what he does with that remaining 8M.
To me, I'd rather bet on our own players improving than some star coming in with a massive contract and meshing with what we have here.
I just think Monte has done an excellent job constructing the roster, and there are fewer holes than some people think.
Let's see what he does with that remaining 8M.
To me, I'd rather bet on our own players improving than some star coming in with a massive contract and meshing with what we have here.
Yeah, and that's the subtle thing we've already heard from coach Loucks in summer league. They are apparently going to put Keegan in more of a creation role this summer. If it happens and it works that solves all the problems. If Murray continues to be a player not even on the iso charts and/or has a pick and roll ball handler frequency of 2.2 like during the regular season last year then his role isn't going to change much. He'll be the same shooter he was last season. He'll be a function of the offense on a team needing offense creators. During the playoffs Murrays pnr freq% actually went up to around 10. He scored well off of it but he didn't get to the line at all, and he only had .9 FGA's from it. And most of that came in one game IIRC.
It's more about guarantees than anything. You can always afford to stack stars, especially with a player like Keegan who has shown the ability to work so well in a team offense. Again, it's very possible he can be that third guy, but his usage will have to change dramatically when concerning his pick and roll creation game, isolation, and the ability to draw contact. It was a bit frustrating last summer league when they didn't really give him any of his sets from Iowa in the post and mid post. I expect that to change starting with the first summer league game and into the season. We've already heard enough to suggest that's the exact plan going forward.
Well, Shams said the Kings had an offer on the table for Beal, so apparently there was some willingness to improve trade wise but Monte clearly has standards when it comes to that and not just any face will do, which is a great thing. The rumor was the Wiz wanted Keegan and that was a no. The reality was it's a safe bet Keegan or no Keegan the Kings had the best offer and Beal chose the Suns.