What an abysmal offseason.

[Vinny Basketballerino]

There is a word for the premise of this thread: defeatism.

I was thinking about this the other day. I was wondering if the many years of losing had "molded" our fans into having this attitude. But then I did a though experiment and reversed the causality: what if those many years of losing attracted defeatist type fans.

I'm starting to think the latter. There's really no excuse for thinking like this - there is no purpose. You're not the "voice of realism" that you think you are.

Have some lasagna!!!

 

[PorchSurfin]

I was thinking about this the other day. I was wondering if the many years of losing had "molded" our fans into having this attitude. But then I did a though experiment and reversed the causality: what if those many years of losing attracted defeatist type fans.

I'm starting to think the latter. There's really no excuse for thinking like this - there is no purpose. You're not the "voice of realism" that you think you are.

Have some lasagna!!!

"But then I did a though experiment and reversed the causality: what if those many years of losing attracted defeatist type fans" - I said this exact same thing to my wife last night! There are a few posters on this board who are just so negative no matter what that it makes a ton of sense.

 

[See_Hanks]

Just a quick read through the Orlando Magic´s subReddit will tell you that according to them, Bol is not a rim protector, but a defensive liability.

Kind of like the JaVale Mcgee and to a lesser extent a Hassan Whiteside (although I still like Whiteside). The stats don't tell a complete story on someone's defense. Like Bol, Whiteside, and McGee.

 

[SacTownKid]

I was thinking about this the other day. I was wondering if the many years of losing had "molded" our fans into having this attitude. But then I did a though experiment and reversed the causality: what if those many years of losing attracted defeatist type fans.

I'm starting to think the latter. There's really no excuse for thinking like this - there is no purpose. You're not the "voice of realism" that you think you are.

Have some lasagna!!!

Again, I think people are looking at this the wrong way. It's like how people get so offended for certain players at the slightest criticism when the actual data results back up the criticisms. This glass could be half empty, or half full, but with a little boost it could possibly be OVERFLOWING. That should be the point. For me personally I think the team is that close and we know what happens when a team teams tops out and has little wiggle room to rework things cap wise. The Kings better not fall in a hole and nobody should expect that, but as they say, better to be safe than sorry. Adding star talent if you can without tearing down parts of your star core is always something a team should jump on when they have the chance. From reports, Monte tried. The main concern is that during the season the staggering of Fox and Domas did indeed not effectively bleed over into the playoffs. That's probably not sustainable against these new powerhouse teams so now somebody here has to step it up which is very possible. But again, what would it hurt to overdo things in this scenario? Add talent to talent to talent. Domas will glue it together.

 

[est.1999]

A lot depends on Keegan’s development and rise to stardom. If he makes that leap, and monte has a lot of confidence that he will, then that’s probably the reason why they didn’t do anything too drastic. Let’s see what happens.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

"But then I did a though experiment and reversed the causality: what if those many years of losing attracted defeatist type fans" - I said this exact same thing to my wife last night! There are a few posters on this board who are just so negative no matter what that it makes a ton of sense.

They are getting exposed by the blinding light of the Kings future!! Shine on purple beam, shine on!

 

[sactowndog]

Hollinger not at all complimentary of Kings of season …..


Given the most any other team could have paid Sabonis next summer is $193 million, it was notable to see the Kings committing to $195 million right now. Usually when a team inks an extension a year out like this for a player who isn’t quite on the A-list, it can negotiate for more of a haircut on the extension years.

…..

The, “Who were you bidding against?” question here looms large. ……. not exactly a seamless fit on many (most?) contending rosters because you have to play through him on offense and you can’t switch with him on defense. ….unlikely any team would have offered him that four-year max a year from now, among the subset that even had the space.

 

[The_Jamal]

Hollinger not at all complimentary of Kings of season …..


Given the most any other team could have paid Sabonis next summer is $193 million, it was notable to see the Kings committing to $195 million right now. Usually when a team inks an extension a year out like this for a player who isn’t quite on the A-list, it can negotiate for more of a haircut on the extension years.

…..

The, “Who were you bidding against?” question here looms large. ……. not exactly a seamless fit on many (most?) contending rosters because you have to play through him on offense and you can’t switch with him on defense. ….unlikely any team would have offered him that four-year max a year from now, among the subset that even had the space.

Hollinger and Duncan are just wet-noodles about the whole Domas to the King situation. They left him off the All-star team (I'm pretty sure) and are just salty they got bodied about how "bad" the trade was from the Kings perspective.

I don't disagree with the premise though. I would have much rather added another piece, especially if we could have worked something out with the Celts for Grant Williams at that tag. But outside of that, there's not a single FA contract that I think has actual higher value than just securing Domas now and not worrying about what could happen a year later. Grant at 32, Brooks at 20, Kuzma at 25, Cam Johnson at 27, Brown at 23. Maybe Cam, but that's still expecting him to be one of your 3 best players and that contract pretty well shows BKN wasn't letting him walk anyway. So a moot point there.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The, “Who were you bidding against?” question here looms large. ……. not exactly a seamless fit on many (most?) contending rosters because you have to play through him on offense and you can’t switch with him on defense. ….unlikely any team would have offered him that four-year max a year from now, among the subset that even had the space.

On the other hand, there's a fine line between the overpay and the disrespect. We could try to extend Sabonis for the absolute least he would take, but that kind of thing can be perceived as an insult. It's the exact thing that applies to practically every max contract around the league...why sign the guy to 5/$250M when the most any other team can possibly offer is 5/$200M? I mean, just offer 5/$200.0000001M and it's a done deal, right? But everybody offers the full max. Why? It's about respect.

 

[The_Jamal]

On the other hand, there's a fine line between the overpay and the disrespect. We could try to extend Sabonis for the absolute least he would take, but that kind of thing can be perceived as an insult. It's the exact thing that applies to practically every max contract around the league...why sign the guy to 5/$250M when the most any other team can possibly offer is 5/$200M? I mean, just offer 5/$200.0000001M and it's a done deal, right? But everybody offers the full max. Why? It's about respect.

Pretty much. Domas just put up one of the best seasons in Sacramento Kings history, All-NBA 3rd team, All-Star, one of the main reasons we broke a 16 year drought... and Hollinger thinks we should penny pinch him?

Just goes back to them not letting go their initial take and wanting to be right about how lop-sided the trade was. When in reality, it's about as win-win as it can be for both sides.

 

[captain bill]

On the other hand, there's a fine line between the overpay and the disrespect. We could try to extend Sabonis for the absolute least he would take, but that kind of thing can be perceived as an insult. It's the exact thing that applies to practically every max contract around the league...why sign the guy to 5/$250M when the most any other team can possibly offer is 5/$200M? I mean, just offer 5/$200.0000001M and it's a done deal, right? But everybody offers the full max. Why? It's about respect.

The Suns were the test case for that and Ayton ultimately stuck around. They did eventually give him the max, but their refusal to give him the on-time extension didn't lead to him walking when the time finally came. Similarly Kings could've waited til next offseason to offer the full max, which would give them insurance on if things fall apart or he suffers a major injury. Not that I think that's the best way of doing things, but it's no longer unprecedented.

 

[dude12]

Hollinger is an idiot. Helped create a mess with Memphis along with Joerger before he got out.
All of Sacramentos moves under Monte and ownership has been to create a lasting successful organization by playing the long game and creating an environment where players want to play there or stay. Something Hollinger didn’t accomplish.

 

[midtowner]

The Suns were the test case for that and Ayton ultimately stuck around. They did eventually give him the max, but their refusal to give him the on-time extension didn't lead to him walking when the time finally came. Similarly Kings could've waited til next offseason to offer the full max, which would give them insurance on if things fall apart or he suffers a major injury. Not that I think that's the best way of doing things, but it's no longer unprecedented.

Ayton was a restricted free agent. Different use case.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I can’t remember which pod said it but the “who are they bidding against” argument doesn’t hold up anymore. Guys basically get paid what they want to get.

I think Monte is doubling down on shooting and offense as he probably believes our defense in the playoffs was just good enough. Imagine a scenario where Fox shoots like he did in the playoffs and Keegan, Sasha, KVon, Monk, Trey, Davion and HB all shoot close to their ability? All the stars would have to align but that could win a championship imo.

 

[The_Jamal]

I can’t remember which pod said it but the “who are they bidding against” argument doesn’t hold up anymore. Guys basically get paid what they want to get.

I think Monte is doubling down on shooting and offense as he probably believes our defense in the playoffs was just good enough. Imagine a scenario where Fox shoots like he did in the playoffs and Keegan, Sasha, KVon, Monk, Trey, Davion and HB all shoot close to their ability? All the stars would have to align but that could win a championship imo.

I mean, we really should have at least been a 2nd round team last year. We got pretty damn unlucky tbh. Fox breaks finger in game 4, Sabonis Bruised sternum/Black-eye+Finger set-back? HB and Huerter forgot how to play basketball. HB missed an open game-winner. If just one of these things go our way, we win the series imo.

It's a similar bet to what we did at the trade deadline. Bet on continuity/internal growth of the team, add a couple pieces to improve depth and see who the actual long-term core is around Fox/Sabonis/Keegan. I remember all kinds of groaning and complaining that we "could" fall out of the playoffs because of the lack of moves and we were one of the best teams in the league post-deadline.

 

[dude12]

I read the Hollinger article in The Athletic. After going thru his spiel on the Kings and who were they bidding against, in his writing on Portland, he says there are many people he respects who disagree on his take in regards to Sacramento. Sactowndog neglects to add this part in his posts.

Additionally, he thought Masai could have, should have signed FVV and given him the same deal he got with the Rockets. I just don’t understand Hollinger’s thinking. Says Domas is a player most teams couldn’t use since the offense needs to run through him therefore reducing his value and also is not switchable on D, which we all know he’s not that guy but goes on to rave about FVV. Last time I checked, Domas had a year that only a few bigs have had while FVV shot under 40% from the field again and made 34% of his 3’s. Don’t get it

 

[MizzouKing]

…I did a though experiment and reversed the causality: what if those many years of losing attracted defeatist type fans.

BOOM! Mind blown. This hypothesis explains a LOT…

 

[Turgenev]

Ayton was a restricted free agent. Different use case.

A restricted free agent who signed an offer sheet with another team. His situation isn't the slightest bit comparable to Domas and the Kings.

 

[Turgenev]

I mean, we really should have at least been a 2nd round team last year. We got pretty damn unlucky tbh. Fox breaks finger in game 4, Sabonis Bruised sternum/Black-eye+Finger set-back? HB and Huerter forgot how to play basketball. HB missed an open game-winner. If just one of these things go our way, we win the series imo.

It's a similar bet to what we did at the trade deadline. Bet on continuity/internal growth of the team, add a couple pieces to improve depth and see who the actual long-term core is around Fox/Sabonis/Keegan. I remember all kinds of groaning and complaining that we "could" fall out of the playoffs because of the lack of moves and we were one of the best teams in the league post-deadline.

Yeah what if our shooting was just a little bit better? What if we had Sasha's range and trigger when Barnes, Huerter, and for a little while Murray were missing everything? What if we got to play the Lakers in the second round?

 

[Kingster]

I mean, we really should have at least been a 2nd round team last year. We got pretty damn unlucky tbh. Fox breaks finger in game 4, Sabonis Bruised sternum/Black-eye+Finger set-back? HB and Huerter forgot how to play basketball. HB missed an open game-winner. If just one of these things go our way, we win the series imo.

It's a similar bet to what we did at the trade deadline. Bet on continuity/internal growth of the team, add a couple pieces to improve depth and see who the actual long-term core is around Fox/Sabonis/Keegan. I remember all kinds of groaning and complaining that we "could" fall out of the playoffs because of the lack of moves and we were one of the best teams in the league post-deadline.

This topic of how lucky or unlucky we were with respect to injuries last year is an interesting one because we all know that one way or another the injury factor will affect this team next year. On the one hand, my impression was the Kings were very fortunate in the regular season in the injury department, in part because Sabonis refused to sit because of his injured hand. On the other hand, in the playoffs the Fox injury hurt (no pun intended) and the compounding injuries of Sabonis might have also hurt this team's chances. What is somewhat concerning to me is that the backup center and point guard positions on this team are still questionable. Davion filled in pretty well when Fox was out a few games last year, but I'm unsure whether he could hold down the fort if Fox got hurt for, say, a 20-30 game stretch. And with Sabonis it could be a big, big problem if he goes down for any length of time.

 

[Section 101]

This topic of how lucky or unlucky we were with respect to injuries last year is an interesting one because we all know that one way or another the injury factor will affect this team next year. On. the one hand, my impression was the Kings were very fortunate in the regular season in the injury department, in part because Sabonis refused to sit because of his injured hand. On the other hand, in the playoffs the Fox injury hurt (no pun intended) and the compounding injuries of Sabonis might have also hurt this team's chances. What is somewhat concerning to me is that the backup center and point guard positions on this team are still questionable. Davion filled in pretty well when Fox was out a few games last year, but I'm unsure whether he could hold down the fort if Fox got hurt for, say, a 20-30 game stretch. And with Sabonis it could be a big, big problem if he goes down for any length of time.

And people expect the teams with injuries last year not to have them this year too.

 

[Kingster]

And people expect the teams with injuries last year not to have them this year too.

If anything, I'd be expecting more of a reversion to the mean. So far, Monte has loaded the boat up on the 6'5" - 6'7" guys, but the backup for Sabonis is highly questionable and the backup for Fox is somewhat questionable. It will be interesting to see if anything transpires with those positions before the season begins.

P.S. Jordan Ford looks like an interesting candidate in summer league for backup pg along with Davion, but I wouldn't be prepared to bet the farm on him just yet.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

BOOM! Mind blown. This hypothesis explains a LOT…

Doesn't it? Something totally clicked when I starting thinking this way.

It explains the fact that now that we are winning we still have these same super negative types of people using the same logic - rather than shedding the "losing mentality" and being heartened by winning - and a bright future.

 

[Jc121]

Yes their fortunes have not been blessed with the wisdom that some of us have been.

 

[Sac.Kings]

That guy can kick rocks as far as I’m concerned. We don’t work as a team without Domas. So he has a few shortcomings, that’s up to the front office staff to address but to use that as a negative against him and his contract is idiotic. Some of the players that just got crazy overpaid are leagues below Domas in terms of ability and importance and yet commanded huge sums of money.

We paid Domas what we did because that’s his value to us as a team and organization. He opened everything up for us and now it’s our job to fill in as many gaps as we can to push further into the playoffs. He’s not Jokic out there but he’s closer than most. And still pretty young so there is room for some improvement.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This topic of how lucky or unlucky we were with respect to injuries last year is an interesting one because we all know that one way or another the injury factor will affect this team next year. On the one hand, my impression was the Kings were very fortunate in the regular season in the injury department, in part because Sabonis refused to sit because of his injured hand. On the other hand, in the playoffs the Fox injury hurt (no pun intended) and the compounding injuries of Sabonis might have also hurt this team's chances. What is somewhat concerning to me is that the backup center and point guard positions on this team are still questionable. Davion filled in pretty well when Fox was out a few games last year, but I'm unsure whether he could hold down the fort if Fox got hurt for, say, a 20-30 game stretch. And with Sabonis it could be a big, big problem if he goes down for any length of time.

It's worth noting that Domas wasn't the only one to play through an injury. Fox had his hamstring (I think), Keegan also had a fracture in his hand, and you'd have to be blind to not see Huerter was struggling with something mid-way through the season.

It was just an attitude, possibly part of a one time effort towards being hell bent to break the drought, but it could be that all of these guys will do that as long as the team has something to play for.

I am interested to see how much the new CBA will impact load management and what that would mean for us both in the regular season as well as the playoffs. Playing guys with 5-7 years on us who played 70+ games to hit their big incentives int he playoffs might bode well for our guys who are in their athletic primes.

 

[Kingster]

It's worth noting that Domas wasn't the only one to play through an injury. Fox had his hamstring (I think), Keegan also had a fracture in his hand, and you'd have to be blind to not see Huerter was struggling with something mid-way through the season.

It was just an attitude, possibly part of a one time effort towards being hell bent to break the drought, but it could be that all of these guys will do that as long as the team has something to play for.

I am interested to see how much the new CBA will impact load management and what that would mean for us both in the regular season as well as the playoffs. Playing guys with 5-7 years on us who played 70+ games to hit their big incentives int he playoffs might bode well for our guys who are in their athletic primes.

It's worth noting that Domas wasn't the only one to play through an injury. Fox had his hamstring (I think), Keegan also had a fracture in his hand, and you'd have to be blind to not see Huerter was struggling with something mid-way through the season.

It was just an attitude, possibly part of a one time effort towards being hell bent to break the drought, but it could be that all of these guys will do that as long as the team has something to play for.

I am interested to see how much the new CBA will impact load management and what that would mean for us both in the regular season as well as the playoffs. Playing guys with 5-7 years on us who played 70+ games to hit their big incentives int he playoffs might bode well for our guys who are in their athletic primes.

Good points. How do you think the new CBA might impact load management? Have you heard anything?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Good points. How do you think the new CBA might impact load management? Have you heard anything?

Players need to play 65 games for inclusion in end of season awards. Many of their contracts are tied to these, especially super max guys that collect the awards on name recognition.

 

[sactowndog]

I was thinking about this the other day. I was wondering if the many years of losing had "molded" our fans into having this attitude. But then I did a though experiment and reversed the causality: what if those many years of losing attracted defeatist type fans.

I'm starting to think the latter. There's really no excuse for thinking like this - there is no purpose. You're not the "voice of realism" that you think you are.

Have some lasagna!!!

nice try but I have been a Kings fan for 30 years through winning and losing. This argument is merely the age old argument between the rainbows crowd and the realist crowd.

some of us look at the lack of length and are concerned. Just for comparison


Wallace 6’ 8.5 wingspan v Fox 6’ 6”
Shai Gilgeous 6’ 11’ v Barnes 6’ 11”
Quickness advantage Gilgeous
Josh Giddy 6’ 7.5” v Huerter 6’ 7.5”
Jalen Williams 7’ 3” wingspan v Keegan 6’ 11”
Chet Holmgren 7’ 6” wingspan. v Domas 6’ 11”


We don’t have a single position where we have a length and quickness advantage except maybe Huerter over Giddy. We may struggle with them in a couple years.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I read the Hollinger article in The Athletic. After going thru his spiel on the Kings and who were they bidding against, in his writing on Portland, he says there are many people he respects who disagree on his take in regards to Sacramento. Sactowndog neglects to add this part in his posts.

Additionally, he thought Masai could have, should have signed FVV and given him the same deal he got with the Rockets. I just don’t understand Hollinger’s thinking. Says Domas is a player most teams couldn’t use since the offense needs to run through him therefore reducing his value and also is not switchable on D, which we all know he’s not that guy but goes on to rave about FVV. Last time I checked, Domas had a year that only a few bigs have had while FVV shot under 40% from the field again and made 34% of his 3’s. Don’t get it

I do get it. Hollinger either doesn’t know what he’s talking about or is a giant hypocrite.

Those two things aren’t exclusive to “biased fans”. And one of them definitely applies to him in this case.