Westphal on Tyreke

[Bricklayer]

This jumped out at me -- not the first time Coach has made such comments. Did not know where else to put it, so finally said ah why not a new thread -- kind of fun. Think Coach kind of likes Reke

From the nba.com recap:

For the Kings, Tyreke Evans showed why he's the early favorite for the Rookie of the Year award.

Evans sliced through and shot over the Suns. He had 21 points, seven assists and zero turnovers.

"There are a lot of things he'll continue to get better at," Westphal said. "But I can't tell you something he can't do.

"He's a terrific defensive player at three positions. He's an excellent rebounder. He's an unselfish player who can get to the basket against one person any time he wants. It doesn't matter who it is.

"Obviously, in this league, they'll set the defense and crowd it up," and Evans will have to make the correct decisions.

"But he's somebody that really has no limit in the ceiling of what he can do. He's such an all-round player."

What's more, "He's not out there trying to get famous. He's out there to be a good basketball player. That's what I really like about him."

http://www.nba.com/games/20091205/SACPHX/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0020900287

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Sounds like Westphal wants to stick around in the NBA, and establishing a close relationship with a team's franchise player is a good start.

 

[reid1boys]

Didnt they show some pics of Westphal from the 70s last night> Ring of honor in Phoenix, a long time NBA coach who has been in the finals??? I think he has been in the NBA for quite a while and isnt really trying to "Stick" around.

 

[Kingster]

Carrill basically said the same thing. Personally, I think it's one gigantic fraud. The NBA has hidden him for four years to develop his skills (the guy at Memphis was a clone). A rookie is just not supposed to be this good, and even more scary - consistent - this soon. I figured it would take him three years to get to where he is now in his development. Even when it comes to his assists, where people argue he's not a 2-guard, he can get much, much better. He can do whatever he wants to do. If he wants to average eight, nine assists, he'll get eight, nine assists. If he wants to average 7 to 8 rebs a game, he'll get that. If he wants to average 25+ points a game, he'll get that. And if he wants to become Defensive Player of the Year, he'll get that too. It's all up to him.

 

[LWP777]

Carrill basically said the same thing. Personally, I think it's one gigantic fraud. The NBA has hidden him for four years to develop his skills (the guy at Memphis was a clone). A rookie is just not supposed to be this good, and even more scary - consistent - this soon. I figured it would take him three years to get to where he is now in his development. Even when it comes to his assists, where people argue he's not a 2-guard, he can get much, much better. He can do whatever he wants to do. If he wants to average eight, nine assists, he'll get eight, nine assists. If he wants to average 7 to 8 rebs a game, he'll get that. If he wants to average 25+ points a game, he'll get that. And if he wants to become Defensive Player of the Year, he'll get that too. It's all up to him.

Wait, what? I don't understand. So the NBA was hiding him when he was 16 years old?

 

[Kingster]

Wait, what? I don't understand. So the NBA was hiding him when he was 16 years old?

I didn't think it was necessary to have after that sentence....

 

[LWP777]

I didn't think it was necessary to have after that sentence....

Oh, sorry my sarcasm detector doesn't work when it's this cold out!

 

[bajaden]

Oh, sorry my sarcasm detector doesn't work when it's this cold out!

70 degrees and sunnny here in Ensenada. I recognized that sarcasm right off the bat. It also helps knowing Kingster fairly well.

 

[VF21]

70 degrees and sunnny here in Ensenada. I recognized that sarcasm right off the bat. It also helps knowing Kingster fairly well.

It's a balmy 24 degrees here in the forest, and popcorn snow is dropping from the sky.

 

[VF21]

"He's a terrific defensive player at three positions. He's an excellent rebounder. He's an unselfish player who can get to the basket against one person any time he wants. It doesn't matter who it is.

"Obviously, in this league, they'll set the defense and crowd it up," and Evans will have to make the correct decisions.

"But he's somebody that really has no limit in the ceiling of what he can do. He's such an all-round player."

What's more, "He's not out there trying to get famous. He's out there to be a good basketball player. That's what I really like about him."

This is one of many things that impresses me about Paul Westphal. He's not afraid to praise a player and he's got the credentials in the league to validate his opinions.

I'm beginning to understand just a little better the beauty of what Geoff Petrie is putting together with our Kings and I'd be lying if I didn't say it gives me goosebumps to consider the future possibilities.

Life is good as a Kings fan.

 

[jcassio]

The fact that Westphal had to court the Kings to get the job is telling. That suggests that there was some doubt about his coaching credentials around the NBA - despite having been in the finals.

Even when the Kings signed him, there was some doubt among experts and Kings fans alike about whether he was 'right' for a young team in obvious need of teaching and learning.

But didn't Westphal show them all, including Reke? We've got a lot to be excited about this year, but the combination of Westphal and Reke is what has made the difference... the difference between slow and steady progress and the surprise of the NBA. That's not to say we're getting in the playoffs this year. But only a fool would have bet on that horse two months ago. My how things have changed.

 

[bajaden]

It's a balmy 24 degrees here in the forest, and popcorn snow is dropping from the sky.

You have my sympathies. Or, perhaps not. Its beginning to look alot like christmas. That would be a catchy line for a song. Me thinks!

 

[bajaden]

The fact that Westphal had to court the Kings to get the job is telling. That suggests that there was some doubt about his coaching credentials around the NBA - despite having been in the finals.

Even when the Kings signed him, there was some doubt among experts and Kings fans alike about whether he was 'right' for a young team in obvious need of teaching and learning.

But didn't Westphal show them all, including Reke? We've got a lot to be excited about this year, but the combination of Westphal and Reke is what has made the difference... the difference between slow and steady progress and the surprise of the NBA. That's not to say we're getting in the playoffs this year. But only a fool would have bet on that horse two months ago. My how things have changed.

I've always felt that in the end, Westphal was more of a Petrie type of coach than Rambis was. Not unusual for the Maloof's to court Rambis. The tend to go for the glitz and flash more than substance at times. Not that they don't want substance. I think they just assume it comes with the glitz and flash sometimes. Besides we know they wanted Jackson at one time. If you can't get him then get someone that hopefully is a clone of him. I hope Rambis is enjoying himself up there in the freezing cold with his current record.

 

[bloom]

This is one man crush that I can approve of…The kid has just been a blast to watch. He’s just blows me away and he just doesn’t do 1 thing, his game has different elements. I can’t wait to see him grow. That’s the exciting part, watching this team, seeing the young guys grow and mature, learn from their mistakes and take on new challenges.

I love what Pete Carill said about Tyreke

"I think it's getting better," Carril said. "According to coach Paul, from where it was, he's seen some improvement. I wish he'd work a little harder at it because the potential for that kid is immense.

"There's not a thing he won't be able to do once he sets his mind to it – I don't care what it is. Every aspect of the game, he has the potential to be good at every one, and that's not easy."

Source: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/story/2360147.html

 

[Bricklayer]

I've always felt that in the end, Westphal was more of a Petrie type of coach than Rambis was. Not unusual for the Maloof's to court Rambis. The tend to go for the glitz and flash more than substance at times. Not that they don't want substance. I think they just assume it comes with the glitz and flash sometimes. Besides we know they wanted Jackson at one time. If you can't get him then get someone that hopefully is a clone of him. I hope Rambis is enjoying himself up there in the freezing cold with his current record.

There's nothing glitzy or glamourous about Kurt Rambis, never was. He was the lunchpail guy. And by all accounts the Petrie guy. He was the guy the Maloofs turned their noses up at the last go around so we COULD get the glitz...of Reggie Theus.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I've always felt that in the end, Westphal was more of a Petrie type of coach than Rambis was. Not unusual for the Maloof's to court Rambis. The tend to go for the glitz and flash more than substance at times. Not that they don't want substance. I think they just assume it comes with the glitz and flash sometimes. Besides we know they wanted Jackson at one time. If you can't get him then get someone that hopefully is a clone of him. I hope Rambis is enjoying himself up there in the freezing cold with his current record.

Well it's not like Rambis didn't want to coach here, he just didn't want to make a decision at that time.

 

[bloom]

Well it's not like Rambis didn't want to coach here, he just didn't want to make a decision at that time.

I think Rambis wanted a more guaranteed/better contract. Why would he leave a sure thing with the Lakers and come here and have the opportunity to be fired within the first 2 years?…. Plus, it was weird because as soon as he turned us down (which I don’t/didn’t mind) he went and signed with the Wolves. Good luck to him in Minnesota but I’m really happy with Paul W.

 

[ForlornKing]

I LOVE Tyreke, I could go on and on but when Paul says he has to improve his decision making I'd just like to point out one key play last night.


Pick and roll with Tyreke and someone else and the big man switches over to Tyreke and so does Nash. So he's being double teamed and Beno goes to the other side of the court and is WIDE open for a three ball but he decides to drive it and put up a wild shot in a crowd. I was pretty suprised he didn't pass it

 

[Uncia03]

Tyreke is fantastic. We all know that if he can develop a consistent outside shot then he's got a legitimate shot of being a top 10 player in the league.

With that said, having watched the recent Cavs/Bulls game, what was most impressive about LBJ was his passing. He ended up with 11 assists, and you could tell that if he could make the good pass, for him, it was better than getting the points himself. (I was very anti-LBJ when he came into the league, but he's grown on me over the years.)

Anyway, the reason LBJ seems to be able to make so many good passing plays is due to three things:
1.) Good passing instincts
2.) Height over his defender
3.) Speed/Quickness advantage over his defender

I bring this up, because ultimately, I'd like to see Evans play the same type of game that I see LBJ playing. And I think that he can get there far more easily if he plays the PG, and the other team is forced to play their PG against him.

Because if the opposition plays their PG against him, it's almost a given that they'll have to double team him or pack the paint. If they double team him, then it provides so many more opportunities for him to find the open man to get the good shot. If they pack the paint by hedging towards him and away from their primary defensive assignment, it means that a good pass and subsequent good ball-movement will eventually lead to a nice open shot.

Now if he plays the 2-guard, or if we pair him up with a smaller guard such as Beno/Sergio, it means that he can be guarded by the other team's best wing defender. And by being guarded by the opposition's best wing defender, it severely reduces the amount of doubles/hedges that he would otherwise get.

Though Tyreke doesn't seem to quite have the innate instincts to be a pure pass-first PG, I believe he's got the instincts to pass like LBJ, and easily get 7+ assists on a nightly basis, if put into a situation to optimize his ability to create for other teammates and find them when they are open.

So being able to consistently hit the outside shot, while our strategy is to force the opposing team to put their PG on him should put Tyreke into the best situation to succeed and lead this team to championship contention.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

It's a balmy 24 degrees here in the forest, and popcorn snow is dropping from the sky.

I wish you could send some of that snow to us here in Sacramento, I miss my winters from when I lived in Boston. It snowed here back in like 02' and EVERYONE was freaking out like it was the end of the world...I was walking around in my short sleeved shirt laughing at everybody.

 

[VF21]

A friend and I did bring a pickup truck full of the stuff down to KG4 and the Little Princesses last year. We'll probably do the same thing again this year but that's about the best I can do.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

My 4 yr old would love something like that. He has never been to the snow, or at least been able to play in it and stuff. I think we might take a drive up the hill right after Christmas when my sister in law gets out here from DC.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I wish you could send some of that snow to us here in Sacramento

Looking at the weather forecasts, you may just get your wish tomorrow...

 

[drboiffard]

Tyreke is fantastic. We all know that if he can develop a consistent outside shot then he's got a legitimate shot of being a top 10 player in the league.

With that said, having watched the recent Cavs/Bulls game, what was most impressive about LBJ was his passing. He ended up with 11 assists, and you could tell that if he could make the good pass, for him, it was better than getting the points himself. (I was very anti-LBJ when he came into the league, but he's grown on me over the years.)

Anyway, the reason LBJ seems to be able to make so many good passing plays is due to three things:
1.) Good passing instincts
2.) Height over his defender
3.) Speed/Quickness advantage over his defender

I bring this up, because ultimately, I'd like to see Evans play the same type of game that I see LBJ playing. And I think that he can get there far more easily if he plays the PG, and the other team is forced to play their PG against him.

Because if the opposition plays their PG against him, it's almost a given that they'll have to double team him or pack the paint. If they double team him, then it provides so many more opportunities for him to find the open man to get the good shot. If they pack the paint by hedging towards him and away from their primary defensive assignment, it means that a good pass and subsequent good ball-movement will eventually lead to a nice open shot.

Now if he plays the 2-guard, or if we pair him up with a smaller guard such as Beno/Sergio, it means that he can be guarded by the other team's best wing defender. And by being guarded by the opposition's best wing defender, it severely reduces the amount of doubles/hedges that he would otherwise get.

Though Tyreke doesn't seem to quite have the innate instincts to be a pure pass-first PG, I believe he's got the instincts to pass like LBJ, and easily get 7+ assists on a nightly basis, if put into a situation to optimize his ability to create for other teammates and find them when they are open.

So being able to consistently hit the outside shot, while our strategy is to force the opposing team to put their PG on him should put Tyreke into the best situation to succeed and lead this team to championship contention.

But what if he ends up being only as good as, for example, Brandon Roy? Although you make a very good point on height and D, one-man based offenses are risky if you'r dude is not lebron james. Because everyone else on the team is being misused.

I think Reke is a hard worker; he can be as good as Lebron James or even better. But right now he can't play 36 minutes without a guy like Beno or Sergio if you want the team win. He'll improve as PG if he continues playing at it (obvius) but right now he doesn't make 11 assists easily. Even playing at PG.

I think it'd deppend on the speed of each match and the quality of the other team offenses, what you say may work perfectly with teams with low deffenseive guards, but there will be teams in wich you can't let the rest of the team making an offense around him,. That would only be good to his averages, but the team would lose a lot more matches.

 

[ParniValjak]

Tyreke is fantastic. We all know that if he can develop a consistent outside shot then he's got a legitimate shot of being a top 10 player in the league.

With that said, having watched the recent Cavs/Bulls game, what was most impressive about LBJ was his passing. He ended up with 11 assists, and you could tell that if he could make the good pass, for him, it was better than getting the points himself. (I was very anti-LBJ when he came into the league, but he's grown on me over the years.)

Anyway, the reason LBJ seems to be able to make so many good passing plays is due to three things:
1.) Good passing instincts
2.) Height over his defender
3.) Speed/Quickness advantage over his defender

I bring this up, because ultimately, I'd like to see Evans play the same type of game that I see LBJ playing. And I think that he can get there far more easily if he plays the PG, and the other team is forced to play their PG against him.

Because if the opposition plays their PG against him, it's almost a given that they'll have to double team him or pack the paint. If they double team him, then it provides so many more opportunities for him to find the open man to get the good shot. If they pack the paint by hedging towards him and away from their primary defensive assignment, it means that a good pass and subsequent good ball-movement will eventually lead to a nice open shot.

Now if he plays the 2-guard, or if we pair him up with a smaller guard such as Beno/Sergio, it means that he can be guarded by the other team's best wing defender. And by being guarded by the opposition's best wing defender, it severely reduces the amount of doubles/hedges that he would otherwise get.

Though Tyreke doesn't seem to quite have the innate instincts to be a pure pass-first PG, I believe he's got the instincts to pass like LBJ, and easily get 7+ assists on a nightly basis, if put into a situation to optimize his ability to create for other teammates and find them when they are open.

So being able to consistently hit the outside shot, while our strategy is to force the opposing team to put their PG on him should put Tyreke into the best situation to succeed and lead this team to championship contention.

While I agree that we should position ourselves with a view of opposition PG guarding Tyreke but if he does become a top 10 player in the league (which is not out of the question with this kid), other teams will start putting their best wing defenders on him.

This is not a bad thing because it opens up things for other players. Thats why its important for Tyreke's backcourt partner to be a full sized SG who can shoot and if Donte develops into a starting caliber SF we are putting out a very tall team which is tough to cover.

I still claim that Cisco would be a better fit next to Tyreke Kevin, and we should use Kevin as a trading chip for a good big that you want to pair with Evans. If you can get Bosh or even a Boozer type of player who will demand double teams on the low post, and you have Cisco and Donte left open for 3s, we would be very tough to stop.

 

[Arco Thunder]

I wish you could send some of that snow to us here in Sacramento, I miss my winters from when I lived in Boston. It snowed here back in like 02' and EVERYONE was freaking out like it was the end of the world...I was walking around in my short sleeved shirt laughing at everybody.

Your wishes may come true as they are calling for snow tomorrow here in Sacramento!!! I know that it will only be a dusting, but it sure will be cool to see those fun snow flakes, no matter how small. I'm from back east, so I miss the snow a lot!

 

[Uncia03]

But what if he ends up being only as good as, for example, Brandon Roy? Although you make a very good point on height and D, one-man based offenses are risky if you'r dude is not lebron james. Because everyone else on the team is being misused.

I think Reke is a hard worker; he can be as good as Lebron James or even better. But right now he can't play 36 minutes without a guy like Beno or Sergio if you want the team win. He'll improve as PG if he continues playing at it (obvius) but right now he doesn't make 11 assists easily. Even playing at PG.

I think it'd deppend on the speed of each match and the quality of the other team offenses, what you say may work perfectly with teams with low deffenseive guards, but there will be teams in wich you can't let the rest of the team making an offense around him,. That would only be good to his averages, but the team would lose a lot more matches.

An interesting point, and one which I think poses a pertinent question.

Do you consider Tyreke to be the Kings point guard of the future?

If he is going to be our future point guard and primary ball handler then we should expect 10 assist games as a common occurance once he finally gets into a grove. I'm not saying that he'll average 10 a game, but to average 7 a game with 10 every-so-often should be the expectation.

His strengths lay in his ability to either use his quickness or muscle to get into the paint. From there it should be a simple matter of either finishing at the rim or making the right pass to an open teammate.

He'll be able to do this far better if defended by a PG, and 7 assists shouldn't be too much to ask over the course of the game.

I'm not really advocating a one-man offense, per-say. I'm saying that Tyreke is going to play his game, and since we've been seeing success with that, it would be smart to maximize his impact while he plays his game.

He's shown the ability to throw the kick-out pass, or make the drop-off pass which is encouraging, but he does need to get better at it. It will just be far easier for him to do this if he isn't being guarded by the team's best wing defender, or if he is being guarded by the team's best wing defender, if that means the opposition has put their PG on our full-sized SG, it means that he'll have the opportunity to make the play to get the ball to the obvious mis-match.

 

[drboiffard]

As I see it, right now it's fine with him moving between PG and SG depending on the matches. But answering to your questing I still see him as a SG. He reminds me Wade, Roy, LeBron. All SGs.

I don't have any problem with him at PG and of course there's no necessity of traditional roleplays if the team wins, but I'd prefer him playing at SG for one simple reason: when a pure-PG is playing at PG he usually makes his fellows better. And having a guy giving Reke easy passes (the easy passes he doesn't get playing at PG because he's the one who has to make them) will optimize his numbers and, most important, also the team's numbers.

It all deppends on the matches...There will always be games in wich it'll be better to have a combo-guard offenses around him playing at PG, and there will always be games in wich it'll be better have him at SG and have a traditional-type PG playing at PG.

I'm not really advocating a one-man offense, per-say. I'm saying that Tyreke is going to play his game, and since we've been seeing success with that, it would be smart to maximize his impact while he plays his game.

But that kind of successful is relative. If you want the kid being the MVP is fine, but if you want to win the league you can't rely only on an offense around him, even if he were a top-3 player of the league, if you want the team to win the ring. Kobe hasn't win anything without a guy like Shaq or Gasol, and Blazers wasn't any competitive in play-offs with their optimize-Brandon-Roy offensive schemes. Of course it's more complex than him playing at PG or SG, but what I try to say is that you have to ace up the team sleeves. If you build your offense to maximize his impact, the team maybe would also win and probably will reach the playoffs, but, as Portland did last season, you'll probably be fired at the first round.

I think the priority in any team would be maximize the team wins and try to develop all player's abilities, not anyone's numbers. It can be both at the same time, of course, they're not opposites. But they also can be opposites: the Portland example is good for this. There's a lot of guys being misused there: Rudy, Miller, see last year Frye and Sergio's numbers and see them now...that's because the offense schemes are in a 80% based on optimize Brandon Roy's game. That works pretty well for season matches, but when you have to play the PO, it's almost useless.

Kings are a young team with a lot of talent. Of course Evans is a guy to be excited with the most, but maximizing his impact on the team in most offensive schemes maybe gets to misuse/underdevelop other promising young people like Greene and Casspi in the same way Rudy or Miller are being misused in Portland.

Maybe not, it seems Westphal is a real NBA coach while McMillan is a retarded, square-minded and very predictible guy, but the risk is there.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I wish you could send some of that snow to us here in Sacramento, I miss my winters from when I lived in Boston. It snowed here back in like 02' and EVERYONE was freaking out like it was the end of the world...I was walking around in my short sleeved shirt laughing at everybody.

Freezing in Portland, though we didn't get snow... yet. Which is fine by me because we are ill-equipped to deal with it - the city has one or two snowplows, we're nestled between hills and the folks here do not want to salt the roads. Still, I think Portland is the perfect west coast city for ex-Bostonians. In fact we were a coinflip away from being named Boston, as the original settlers wanted to name the town after their hometowns. The guy from Maine won.

 

[Aenadin]

i have never seen snow.... as in NEVER....... the closest thing to snow to me is when you use ice and a cheese grater

would love to play in the snow if i came over to the USA but....

it would be kind of awkward and freaky to see a 23 year old dude playing snow angels or fortresses with his brother haha