Welcome Malik Monk

I liked Monk when he was riding pine in Charlotte and while this signing doesn't address the defensive issues, the team apparently will try to outscore opponents and since its a two year deal, it's a trial phase for Malik and the Kings
 
Kings49ers said:
I mean everyone’s entitled to their opinion but you’ve lost some of us with your line of thinking. Last year Monk was actually better on defense than DDV, Monk has always been a better shooter/playmaker than DDV and actually wants to be here. That’s a net gain. Losing our third string 5 who was never going to see minutes behind Sabo and Holmes seems like neither a gain nor a loss.

I understand being pessimistic with this franchise, but being so over the “loss” of DDV and the replaced with Monk doesn’t seem like it would even be in the top 25 reasons for being so.
Click to expand...

Nearly all the metrics I've looked at still have DDV being much better than Monk defensively....despite coming back from injury last year. DDV was about the only net positive perimeter defender on the Kings last year. Play making wise, their career per36 assist and TO stats are nearly identical. Basically a wash. Monk is obviously a much better shooter.

Monk is a terrible defender, great shooter and solid playmaker. DDV is a great defender, slightly below average 3 point shooter and solid playmaker. The one thing DDV is terrible at is finishing at the rim.

We'll find out about fit. Neither guy probably moves the needle a ton but roster construction is important. Will Monk's offense be more valuable than DDV's defense? We'll find out soon enough. The one big question mark for DDV is if he can fully recover from his injury. He looked much better for us than he did for the Bucks last year but his 2pt% was still in the tank. It was his passing, 3pt shooting and defense that picked up substantially for us.
 
I haven’t been a Monk fan in the past, although he proved last year that he could light up the scoreboard. DDV’s potential excited me, and I was looking forward to seeing what he could do for us this year - assuming the ankle was 100%. But I trust that Monte had good reason to doubt DDV as our starting SG and the price that would come with. Maybe it just came down to offensive uncertainty with DDV, and the fact that we need shooters more than we need defensive-first, unreliable “shooting guards.” And as much as I like TD, he is also not a reliable shooter.
So I’m warming up to the Monk signing and the likely reasons for pursuing him rather than DDV.
 
I think Monk is a huge get for the team. He's a good shooter, and gives us another scorer on the team. If he continues on his current trajectory, I think he'll be a big part of this team in the future. I think I like him better off the bench because he gives us more scoring prowess than TD for the 2nd unit.

Fox/Davion
TD/Monk
Barnes/Harkless/Holiday
Murray/Lyles/Metu
Sabonis/Holmes/Len

Gleague: Ellis & Queta.

We'd have a roster spot for 1 more regular contract, and another 2-way contract.

We have a solid roster. I'd like to see us add a 3rd PG to the mix. I think the success of this team will ultimately come down to Mike Brown and DeAaron Fox. We really need Fox to step up his game and have a Morant-type resurgence. He has no excuse not to make a big step this year.
 
ESP47 said:
Nearly all the metrics I've looked at still have DDV being much better than Monk defensively....despite coming back from injury last year. DDV was about the only net positive perimeter defender on the Kings last year. Play making wise, their career per36 assist and TO stats are nearly identical. Basically a wash. Monk is obviously a much better shooter.

Monk is a terrible defender, great shooter and solid playmaker. DDV is a great defender, slightly below average 3 point shooter and solid playmaker. The one thing DDV is terrible at is finishing at the rim.

We'll find out about fit. Neither guy probably moves the needle a ton but roster construction is important. Will Monk's offense be more valuable than DDV's defense? We'll find out soon enough. The one big question mark for DDV is if he can fully recover from his injury. He looked much better for us than he did for the Bucks last year but his 2pt% was still in the tank. It was his passing, 3pt shooting and defense that picked up substantially for us.
Click to expand...
I just shared something earlier in here, last year, again this is just last year and not his career, but Monk was far from a terrible defender. Also the only year DDV was ever a “great” defender was when he was in Milwaukee playing with an actual handful of very good to elite defenders, but that was years ago. Now will Monk’s defense continue here? That’s the 9.5 million dollar a year question. Also while our perimeter defense wasn’t great, our interior defense has been by far the biggest problem with this team. And DDV ain’t fixing that. Look, I feel like I’m coming across as if I’m belittling or bad mouthing DDV, I’m not, I want to make that clear. But DDV’s play with us last year was very mid, nothing special whatsoever and he was a pretty poor shooter. The guy has a place in the NBA for sue, as a reserve 2 guard he’s got some value. But for the life of me I’ve never seen a fan base defend a guy so much who actually adds very little value towards winning a basketball game haha. Would I take him back as depth at the 2 spot? 100% if it was cheap and short term, but Im not sure I want him taking minutes and opportunities away from TD either. TD in my mind showed surprisingly well and earned a look next year with his play.
 
Kings49ers said:
I just shared something earlier in here, last year, again this is just last year and not his career, but Monk was far from a terrible defender. Also the only year DDV was ever a “great” defender was when he was in Milwaukee playing with an actual handful of very good to elite defenders, but that was years ago. Now will Monk’s defense continue here? That’s the 9.5 million dollar a year question. Also while our perimeter defense wasn’t great, our interior defense has been by far the biggest problem with this team. And DDV ain’t fixing that. Look, I feel like I’m coming across as if I’m belittling or bad mouthing DDV, I’m not, I want to make that clear. But DDV’s play with us last year was very mid, nothing special whatsoever and he was a pretty poor shooter. The guy has a place in the NBA for sue, as a reserve 2 guard he’s got some value. But for the life of me I’ve never seen a fan base defend a guy so much who actually adds very little value towards winning a basketball game haha. Would I take him back as depth at the 2 spot? 100% if it was cheap and short term, but Im not sure I want him taking minutes and opportunities away from TD either. TD in my mind showed surprisingly well and earned a look next year with his play.
Click to expand...
I saw the post in regards to his defense. It appears he may not be a zero on defense after all. I did like DDV’s defense as he is active as heck but his D is easily replaced by TD who is in a similar mode but possibly even more physical. We know about Davion. Add in Holiday if he’s still part of the rotation and the need for Monk’s flamethrower offense is a great fit for the team.
 
dude12 said:
I saw the post in regards to his defense. It appears he may not be a zero on defense after all. I did like DDV’s defense as he is active as heck but his D is easily replaced by TD who is in a similar mode but possibly even more physical. We know about Davion. Add in Holiday if he’s still part of the rotation and the need for Monk’s flamethrower offense is a great fit for the team.
Click to expand...
We need shooters on this team. If we want to maximize Fox’s gifts and ability to drive and dish, then he needs someone that can hit those shots. We also need to cover his weakness too which is shooting. Fox needs a partner that can shoot, point blank. I love the signing and I love the deal.

Ideally, I’d like to see Fox approach 35% from 3 this year. It’s still not great, but it’s respectable. Sub 30% really isn’t going to cut it in today’s league. It should be doable, other guards have done it who couldn’t shoot worth a lick before.
 
dude12 said:
I saw the post in regards to his defense. It appears he may not be a zero on defense after all. I did like DDV’s defense as he is active as heck but his D is easily replaced by TD who is in a similar mode but possibly even more physical. We know about Davion. Add in Holiday if he’s still part of the rotation and the need for Monk’s flamethrower offense is a great fit for the team.
Click to expand...

Holiday becomes a better player when the team asks him to do less. TD and Monk should ease the scoring burden on him.
 
Kings49ers said:
I just shared something earlier in here, last year, again this is just last year and not his career, but Monk was far from a terrible defender. Also the only year DDV was ever a “great” defender was when he was in Milwaukee playing with an actual handful of very good to elite defenders, but that was years ago. Now will Monk’s defense continue here? That’s the 9.5 million dollar a year question. Also while our perimeter defense wasn’t great, our interior defense has been by far the biggest problem with this team. And DDV ain’t fixing that. Look, I feel like I’m coming across as if I’m belittling or bad mouthing DDV, I’m not, I want to make that clear. But DDV’s play with us last year was very mid, nothing special whatsoever and he was a pretty poor shooter. The guy has a place in the NBA for sue, as a reserve 2 guard he’s got some value. But for the life of me I’ve never seen a fan base defend a guy so much who actually adds very little value towards winning a basketball game haha. Would I take him back as depth at the 2 spot? 100% if it was cheap and short term, but Im not sure I want him taking minutes and opportunities away from TD either. TD in my mind showed surprisingly well and earned a look next year with his play.
Click to expand...

I saw the post but I just find it hard to believe that he could have those lock down numbers while still carrying awful numbers across multiple metrics. It's kind of like that tweet someone posted that showed that TD was the 2nd best SG in the league or something like that. We all know that isn't true. TD was so bad to begin the year that he wasn't even playable. He turned it up before he got hurt but he was still average or below average overall. I'm just hoping he can come out this year and play the way he played before he got injured.

I just think people are going to be very disappointed if they think that Monk turned it up defensively last year and will continue to be a good defender. I see nothing but fools gold there but we'll find out.
 
ESP47 said:
I saw the post but I just find it hard to believe that he could have those lock down numbers while still carrying awful numbers across multiple metrics. It's kind of like that tweet someone posted that showed that TD was the 2nd best SG in the league or something like that. We all know that isn't true. TD was so bad to begin the year that he wasn't even playable. He turned it up before he got hurt but he was still average or below average overall. I'm just hoping he can come out this year and play the way he played before he got injured.

I just think people are going to be very disappointed if they think that Monk turned it up defensively last year and will continue to be a good defender. I see nothing but fools gold there but we'll find out.
Click to expand...

Unless more is done, this team makes the playoffs next year only if Queta transforms into Rudy Gobert. The guards are undersized. Still don't have a legit defender at the 3 spot outside of Barnes, who.is solid. I'm doubtful Murray can defend 3s next year.

Monte is, once again, a year too late on trying to find his next Herb Jones with the two UDFA signings. Shoulda grabbed him last year, dude. But then again, processing, processing, processing...
 
Kings49ers said:
View attachment 11119
Click to expand...
Advanced defensive impact stats from last year:

DRAPM = -0.69
LA-DRAPM = -0.63
DLEBRON = -1.33
DRAPTOR = -1.2
DRPM = -1.01
DBPM = -1.0
Def On/Off = +3.0

I think it's pretty safe to say he's not a good defender (and wasn't known to be a good defender in college either if I'm not mistaken). He (and Fox) both don't have the type of size & length you would want to defend SGs.

I like Monk in a vacuum, but I question the fit as a starter. If our starting lineup is Fox-Monk-Barnes-Murray-Sabonis, we're really going to struggle defensively...
  • Fox is below average defensively
  • Monk is below average defensively
  • Barnes is below average to average defensively
  • Murray has potential to be good defensively but do we expect Murray to be a plus defender as a rookie? That might be a stretch.
  • Sabonis is below average to average defensively

Even if we swap Barnes for John Collins, the same defensive question marks will exist. Our only hopes at being a decent defensive team if we're keeping Barnes & Sabonis is for:
  1. Fox to buy-in defensively and commit to that side of the ball (e.g, Gary Payton mentality)
  2. Find a starting SG who is a good/great defender
  3. Murray develops into a good/great defender

We can be as good as we want offensively, but if we're a bottom 10 defensive team, we're going to have a really difficult time being competitive next year especially when you consider how strong the west is.

Again, I'm not against Monk in a vacuum for this price, but the lack of defensive emphasis in building this roster concerns me. A defensive minded coach can only do so much. This is why bringing back DiVincenzo made sense to many of us. He's not the shooter Monk is but he's decent enough, while playing solid defense.
 
twslam07 said:
Advanced defensive impact stats from last year:

DRAPM = -0.69
LA-DRAPM = -0.63
DLEBRON = -1.33
DRAPTOR = -1.2
DRPM = -1.01
DBPM = -1.0
Def On/Off = +3.0

I think it's pretty safe to say he's not a good defender (and wasn't known to be a good defender in college either if I'm not mistaken). He (and Fox) both don't have the type of size & length you would want to defend SGs.

I like Monk in a vacuum, but I question the fit as a starter. If our starting lineup is Fox-Monk-Barnes-Murray-Sabonis, we're really going to struggle defensively...
  • Fox is below average defensively
  • Monk is below average defensively
  • Barnes is below average to average defensively
  • Murray has potential to be good defensively but do we expect Murray to be a plus defender as a rookie? That might be a stretch.
  • Sabonis is below average to average defensively

Even if we swap Barnes for John Collins, the same defensive question marks will exist. Our only hopes at being a decent defensive team if we're keeping Barnes & Sabonis is for:
  1. Fox to buy-in defensively and commit to that side of the ball (e.g, Gary Payton mentality)
  2. Find a starting SG who is a good/great defender
  3. Murray develops into a good/great defender

We can be as good as we want offensively, but if we're a bottom 10 defensive team, we're going to have a really difficult time being competitive next year especially when you consider how strong the west is.

Again, I'm not against Monk in a vacuum for this price, but the lack of defensive emphasis in building this roster concerns me. A defensive minded coach can only do so much.
Click to expand...
My goal would be to trade a 1st for a defensive ace on the wing. Maybe we can be the middleman in a blockbuster where we help with a 1st and get a defensive guy.
 
ESP47 said:
I saw the post but I just find it hard to believe that he could have those lock down numbers while still carrying awful numbers across multiple metrics. It's kind of like that tweet someone posted that showed that TD was the 2nd best SG in the league or something like that. We all know that isn't true. TD was so bad to begin the year that he wasn't even playable. He turned it up before he got hurt but he was still average or below average overall. I'm just hoping he can come out this year and play the way he played before he got injured.

I just think people are going to be very disappointed if they think that Monk turned it up defensively last year and will continue to be a good defender. I see nothing but fools gold there but we'll find out.
Click to expand...

adaptation of the Billy Beane quote in Moneyball.

"If he's a good defender, then why doesn't he defend good?"
 
upinsmoke said:
My goal would be to trade a 1st for a defensive ace on the wing. Maybe we can be the middleman in a blockbuster where we help with a 1st and get a defensive guy.
Click to expand...

Or, if Philly is desperate to shed salary you trade Barnes and other ending contracts for Harris and Thybulle.
 
funkykingston said:
Or, if Philly is desperate to shed salary you trade Barnes and other ending contracts for Harris and Thybulle.
Click to expand...

That's probably the most logical next move. Though $60M+ in salary difference between Harris and Barnes is going to be a tough pill for Vivek to swallow. Monte better take some of that brain power and do a nifty Nancy Duarte vetted presentation explaining how Harris + Thybulle = Playoffs = Season Tix = >$60M in Revenue.
 
kb02 said:
That's probably the most logical next move. Though $60M+ in salary difference between Harris and Barnes is going to be a tough pill for Vivek to swallow. Monte better take some of that brain power and do a nifty Nancy Duarte vetted presentation explaining how Harris + Thybulle = Playoffs = Season Tix = >$60M in Revenue.
Click to expand...

I think Thybulle will ultimately be moved because Morey won't want to pay him next summer. As great as his off-ball defense is, he's a 5 ppg bench player who shoots 30% from three and doesn't seem to impact winning.

As for Harris, it's still a ridiculous contract, but it comes off the books at the same time the Kings would need to re-sign Sabonis. I'd like to see it happen.
 
I do think Brown can get us out of the bottom ten defensively, if not, why is he here?

As others have said, this all rides on Fox. He has to be great on offense and good on defense or we just don’t have enough.

we have to show enough this year that we can attract an upgrade at the 3 next year since I don’t think we have the trade assets.
 
I wonder how much we will see him with Fox.. Hopefully Fox and Monk can stay healthy for more than half the season.
 
funkykingston said:
I think Thybulle will ultimately be moved because Morey won't want to pay him next summer. As great as his off-ball defense is, he's a 5 ppg bench player who shoots 30% from three and doesn't seem to impact winning.

As for Harris, it's still a ridiculous contract, but it comes off the books at the same time the Kings would need to re-sign Sabonis. I'd like to see it happen.
Click to expand...
Now that the trade went through I dont think we have the salaries to match.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Caccia
Monk as Starter
2 3 4
Replies
99
Views
6K
ESP47
E
N
Kings provide encouraging updates on Monk, Sabonis injuries
Replies
0
Views
181
NBC Sports BayArea
N
N
Monk embracing Kings leadership opportunity after roster makeover
Replies
0
Views
178
NBC Sports BayArea
N
Angelo127
Welcome Back!
Replies
9
Views
329
MizzouKing
MizzouKing
N
Monk out for Kings-Spurs game with toe injury, will be day-to-day
Replies
0
Views
102
NBC Sports BayArea
N
Back
Top