Welcome Jalen McDaniels

NewArena said:
I truly think if we wanted Kuzma as bad as everyone's been assuming, he would have been here already. I really don't see it
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I sure hope you’re right. The sooner those dumb rumors/connections are finally put to the rest, the better. I’ve never seen a connection to a more middling, knucklehead player linger longer than this. Can’t wait for the insanity to finally end.
 
SacTownKid said:
I wonder if the ratings were bad today the NBA just **** cans the 2nd round altogether haha. Yeah, in most drafts once out of the top 20 picks or so, scouting and talent evaluation > picks. I can't remember what the percentages were but it's pretty low odds for most 2nd round picks even sticking very long in the NBA. The G league is as good of a bet as 2nd round picks at this point along with 2 way contracts.
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At one point they were talking about a third round.

The problem with the second round is that the PA are the ones fighting against more/longer two-ways I think. Most teams would love to develop guys for a few years if they can, but the system in place you basically have two years for these midrange talents to develop in your system or you have to cut bait. For the guys who are 4 year projects good luck.

Just look at Nemi. He gets a ring right? and probably will be a full time roster player in another 2-3 years. Little good that did us.
 
chief bromden said:
Keon Ellis proves the point that second rounders are pretty much zero value. There are still plenty of 'second rounders' that get signed straight away after the draft.
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What about the good NBA rotation players that have been drafted in the 2nd round? Looking back, there are lots of them.

Point being, they couldn't possibly be next to zero value
 
The_Jamal said:
what?

I mean, i guess the UDFA market is basically all predetermined at this point where guys negotiate beforehand, but why not have a 2nd round pick AND go win in the UDFA market? More shots to find another Keon Ellis is good.
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Because there aren't enough minutes to find out if they are ever going to pan out. Like, Slawson is intriguing but how will he get minutes? And two more UDFA were just added. Seems like second rounders are the most valuable for second apron teams. But crap,I'm just a fan who really doesn't know much so please educate me if I'm seeing this wrong.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
What about the good NBA rotation players that have been drafted in the 2nd round? Looking back, there are lots of them.

Point being, they couldn't possibly be next to zero value
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Things changed in the 2010s. Not sure exactly what, but that's when reports started trickling in about agents telling teams not to draft their players in the second round. Sometimes they still get drafted by the team they have backroom deals with but othertimes they just fall out and sign as undrafted.

Trayce Jackson-Davis is perhaps the highest profile most recent player. Interested teams in the 30s were told do not draft our guy. Warriors nabbed him at 57 and it's a "heist". And someone in his camp has ties directly to the Warriors, it's not even fair.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
What about the good NBA rotation players that have been drafted in the 2nd round? Looking back, there are lots of them.

Point being, they couldn't possibly be next to zero value
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Yeah I get it, Jokic etc etc etc. zero value is hyperbole, I'll admit, just trying to figure out why Monte is getting roasted for using 2nds to dump two guys that weren't going to see the court to open up space for future moves when those seconds just aren't that important
 
chief bromden said:
Because there aren't enough minutes to find out if they are ever going to pan out. Like, Slawson is intriguing but how will he get minutes? And two more UDFA were just added. Seems like second rounders are the most valuable for second apron teams. But crap,I'm just a fan who really doesn't know much so please educate me if I'm seeing this wrong.
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Again, there weren't minutes for Keon Ellis...until there was and then he showed how valuable he was to not leave off the floor. IT2 was the damn last pick in the draft until he pretty much immediately showed he was better than our lotto pick, Jimmer.

Slawson very well could have a similar opportunity this year. We just shipped out Sasha, Lyles is on an expiring and could be included in a deal. One injury and he might get his opportunity too.

It's about shots on goal. The hit rate will be incredibly low and virtually all these guys won't make it in the league. But the idea of continuing to invest in developmental slots on your roster is how you build a sustained winner because of the lack of initial investment with incredible payoff. Think NOP is happy they kept their 2nd that ended up being Herb Jones? We got a massive hit with Keon Ellis; let's go find the next one.
 
The_Jamal said:
Again, there weren't minutes for Keon Ellis...until there was and then he showed how valuable he was to not leave off the floor. IT2 was the damn last pick in the draft until he pretty much immediately showed he was better than our lotto pick, Jimmer.

Slawson very well could have a similar opportunity this year. We just shipped out Sasha, Lyles is on an expiring and could be included in a deal. One injury and he might get his opportunity too.

It's about shots on goal. The hit rate will be incredibly low and virtually all these guys won't make it in the league. But the idea of continuing to invest in developmental slots on your roster is how you build a sustained winner because of the lack of initial investment with incredible payoff. Think NOP is happy they kept their 2nd that ended up being Herb Jones? We got a massive hit with Keon Ellis; let's go find the next one.
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So you are saying the Kings adding the two UDFAs aren't enough darts? Like, GMs should just go straight shot chucker with second rounders?
 
Assuming the UDFA's were our targets anyways I am pleased as punch - though slightly confused about which of our two-ways we are keeping, which have earned a big boy club guaranteed contract, and who we are waving farewell to.
 
chief bromden said:
So you are saying the Kings adding the two UDFAs aren't enough darts? Like, GMs should just go straight shot chucker with second rounders?
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Honestly, yeah.

The 2nd round contracts are basically free, especially in this new NBA landscape. You find a rotation player out of it, it's a damn goldmine in terms of value. Especially with us being a roster with 2 max players and a big Fox extension looming. Finding cheap production is going to be a must.
 
The_Jamal said:
Honestly, yeah.

The 2nd round contracts are basically free, especially in this new NBA landscape. You find a rotation player out of it, it's a damn goldmine in terms of value. Especially with us being a roster with 2 max players and a big Fox extension looming. Finding cheap production is going to be a must.
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That's fair, I can see that. Thanks for your perspective
 
chief bromden said:
Because there aren't enough minutes to find out if they are ever going to pan out. Like, Slawson is intriguing but how will he get minutes? And two more UDFA were just added. Seems like second rounders are the most valuable for second apron teams. But crap,I'm just a fan who really doesn't know much so please educate me if I'm seeing this wrong.
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Slawson will get minutes when he starts looking like an NBA talent in the G League. Until then, what's the point?
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
I sure hope you’re right. The sooner those dumb rumors/connections are finally put to the rest, the better. I’ve never seen a connection to a more middling, knucklehead player linger longer than this. Can’t wait for the insanity to finally end.
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Just to see what you are talking about, I checked Kuzma's TS% this past season: .547. On the Kings, that would put him just ahead of Kessler Edwards. His Win Share/48 was .oo4. Wow. McDaniels, on the other hand, in the 2022-23 season, before he was traded, had a TS% that was slightly higher, at .551, despite the reputation of Kuzma as a shooter. After the trade from Charlotte to Philadelphia, it was .580. His Win Share/48 was .109.

As I said before, I always thought he was a good, reliable backup at forward.
 
Tetsujin said:
so if we effectively traded Davion, HB, Huerter, Sasha, 45th overall, and the Portland pick, and whatever else other draft capital it would take for Ingram (guy’s on an expiring so I’d assume a draft pick package similar to what the Pacers gave up for Pascal) and McDaniels, would that be a successful trade in everyone’s eyes?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1806707811969118435
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Hm. I've never been a big believer in Brandon Ingram, but I definitely prefer the idea of him to the likes of Kuzma or LaVine. Barnes, Huerter, plus additional draft capital doesn't seem like quite enough to get such a deal done, but if it is, and if you add it to the cost of the salary dump, I'd probably consider that a successful trade, if a slight overpay in total assets.
 
Padrino said:
Hm. I've never been a big believer in Brandon Ingram, but I definitely prefer the idea of him to the likes of Kuzma or LaVine. Barnes, Huerter, plus additional draft capital doesn't seem like quite enough to get such a deal done, but if it is, and if you add it to the cost of the salary dump, I'd probably consider that a successful trade, if a slight overpay in total assets.
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I'm skeptical how you could pay Ingram what he wants, give Fox his extension and keep Keon/Keegan around. But if that's possible, I'd be in on this.

I think my favorite path is going and getting a MLE wing. I sneakily really like this "role player" grouping of Obi/Jalen/Okoro/Naji/Caleb Martin. All dudes I think really help us and upgrade that wing slot (not in Jalen's case, but yeah).
 
I don't like it, who would. We have to face facts Davion had to go best for both the Kings and Davion. Sasha was salty and from the Divencenzo experiment you know what Monte does with malcontents. If we're being honest Barnes is the next to go. I want a third year from Huerter to see if he bounces back but, it they move him its whatever. There must be something simmering and I hope its a tall rangy wing.
 
Bfreeman said:
I don't like it, who would. We have to face facts Davion had to go best for both the Kings and Davion. Sasha was salty and from the Divencenzo experiment you know what Monte does with malcontents. If we're being honest Barnes is the next to go. I want a third year from Huerter to see if he bounces back but, it they move him its whatever. There must be something simmering and I hope its a tall rangy wing.
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Would you be against a real power forward at the 4, instead of a rangy wing? I kinda have doubts about adding a "slender" body next to Murray in the starting lineup, unless they've already proven strong enough to play above their weight. This would eliminate Brandon Ingram from the list
 
Jdbraver137 said:
Sasha and Davion weren’t gonna be impactful here either
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They both upside even if limited.

I thought the fire sale days were over. I hate the idea of "clearing the way for another deal" because the next deal should be in place before you do this one. Absolutely nothing is guaranteed in the NBA market and if the second deal isn't announced within the hour you don't have a second deal.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Would you be against a real power forward at the 4, instead of a rangy wing? I kinda have doubts about adding a "slender" body next to Murray in the starting lineup, unless they've already proven strong enough to play above their weight. This would eliminate Brandon Ingram from the list
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I was thinking about someone like Ingram (but not Ingram). I guess I just don't a lot of confidence that the defensive progress will stick and we need somebody who can switch to cover for lapses. A 6'10" PF wouldn't be bad either assuming the improvements to team defense continue.
 
captain bill said:
They both upside even if limited.

I thought the fire sale days were over. I hate the idea of "clearing the way for another deal" because the next deal should be in place before you do this one. Absolutely nothing is guaranteed in the NBA market and if the second deal isn't announced within the hour you don't have a second deal.
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The problem with that is free agent deals can't be announced until Sunday. So if something was cooking, we wouldn't know.
 
The_Jamal said:
I'm skeptical how you could pay Ingram what he wants, give Fox his extension and keep Keon/Keegan around. But if that's possible, I'd be in on this.

I think my favorite path is going and getting a MLE wing. I sneakily really like this "role player" grouping of Obi/Jalen/Okoro/Naji/Caleb Martin. All dudes I think really help us and upgrade that wing slot (not in Jalen's case, but yeah).
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Just like the Knicks, Suns, Celtics, BLOW IT UP!!! haha. Once he's here, that's all up to Vivek.
 
Caccia said:
Just to see what you are talking about, I checked Kuzma's TS% this past season: .547. On the Kings, that would put him just ahead of Kessler Edwards. His Win Share/48 was .oo4. Wow. McDaniels, on the other hand, in the 2022-23 season, before he was traded, had a TS% that was slightly higher, at .551, despite the reputation of Kuzma as a shooter. After the trade from Charlotte to Philadelphia, it was .580. His Win Share/48 was .109.

As I said before, I always thought he was a good, reliable backup at forward.
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If there is any argument between Grant and Kuz, Grant at least usually has positive win share numbers on both ends. Kuz was only impactful as a 6th man from what it looks like. Then again, he's on a bad team and a number 1 option when he wouldn't be on any team trying to compete.
 
captain bill said:
They both upside even if limited.

I thought the fire sale days were over. I hate the idea of "clearing the way for another deal" because the next deal should be in place before you do this one. Absolutely nothing is guaranteed in the NBA market and if the second deal isn't announced within the hour you don't have a second deal.
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You may be right but I think you really have to wait to see what happens this offseason before pouring gasoline on the FO
 
Jdbraver137 said:
You may be right but I think you really have to wait to see what happens this offseason before pouring gasoline on the FO
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I've always been on the brightside of the fan base and been a huge defender of this FO but this feels like a huge mistake. Especially with Masai seeing Davion and Sasha as worth taking
 
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