webb to detroit

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#273
#273
The thing I'm finding interesting here is the way that he was stepped forward not just as that extra saavy veteran cog, but in the last couple of weeks as maybe THE leader of a very veteran team looking to reach the Finals. From "all washed up" to 20-10 goto guy on the East's best in 2 months is pretty amazing, and have to tip my hat to Flip Saunders (not to mention to Chris himself).

One little thing that makes me sad is just this -- Webb has long been on the fringes of HOF consideration. In another world would be very likely to make it, but just has had so much mess in his career with the legal issues, injuries etc. that it detracts. School of thought has been that if he ever broke through and won a title or two, that would be the "winner" image rehabilitation that he would need to get over the hump. Now I'm still nto sure Detroit is as good as any of the top 3 out West, but if Webb did break through here and win a title for his hometown Pistons, and that did one day lead to him making it into the HOF, it might be wearing a Pistons jersey rather than a Kings jersey. Best player we ever had, and maybe not ours to claim anymore in the end.
 
T

TurkeyStraightUp

Prospect
#274
#274
Bricklayer said:
The thing I'm finding interesting here is the way that he was stepped forward not just as that extra saavy veteran cog, but in the last couple of weeks as maybe THE leader of a very veteran team looking to reach the Finals. From "all washed up" to 20-10 goto guy on the East's best in 2 months is pretty amazing, and have to tip my hat to Flip Saunders (not to mention to Chris himself).
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It's amazing the disrespect Chris Webber, the Pistons and Flip Saunders get around the league by some analysts, fans, etc.

It's one reason he fits so well with the other discards on the Pistons team. As you should have noticed by now, Pistons never do anything the easy way, and they are only good when disrespected and carrying a large chip on their shoulder.

As a good example of never doing things the easy way, the Pistons are 9-16 in standalone games, yet are 31-6 in back to back sets with 15-3 in the second game. :cool:

That's why I have so much more hope with this year's team, especially with Chris around, than I had with last year's Pistons, who were generally thought of as "great"......

If Pistons win it all, Chris might very well get MVP honors........
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#275
#275
Bricklayer said:
The thing I'm finding interesting here is the way that he was stepped forward not just as that extra saavy veteran cog, but in the last couple of weeks as maybe THE leader of a very veteran team looking to reach the Finals. From "all washed up" to 20-10 goto guy on the East's best in 2 months is pretty amazing, and have to tip my hat to Flip Saunders (not to mention to Chris himself).

One little thing that makes me sad is just this -- Webb has long been on the fringes of HOF consideration. In another world would be very likely to make it, but just has had so much mess in his career with the legal issues, injuries etc. that it detracts. School of thought has been that if he ever broke through and won a title or two, that would be the "winner" image rehabilitation that he would need to get over the hump. Now I'm still nto sure Detroit is as good as any of the top 3 out West, but if Webb did break through here and win a title for his hometown Pistons, and that did one day lead to him making it into the HOF, it might be wearing a Pistons jersey rather than a Kings jersey. Best player we ever had, and maybe not ours to claim anymore in the end.
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i have my doubts that the pistons could beat the mavs, as well...but if, somehow, webb were to throw the pistons on his back and be the leader/major offensive cog, i'd say it could happen. and if it did, i'd have to agree that webb would absolutely no longer be kings fans to claim. the best stretch of his career, in his prime, would have been in sacramento, but winning a title for his hometown would likely erase much of the anti-webber sentiment they've harbored since the michigan days. in fact, that would solidify his place in their hearts (cuz titled do that to fans), and i'd say he would have a much greater shot at the hall of fame. i've been rooting for detroit since he signed there...i even picked him up on one of my fantasy teams...but its still tough to see him excel in detroit when i've been saying from minute one that he'd still be contributing on the kings. he may not have been the superstar he once was, but he's still more of a leader than any current king can admit to being. chris webber could make ron artest better...he's the anti-artest...the kind of teammate you feel honored to play with.
 
acisking

acisking

Bench
#276
#276
Padrino said:
i have my doubts that the pistons could beat the mavs, as well...but if, somehow, webb were to throw the pistons on his back and be the leader/major offensive cog, i'd say it could happen. and if it did, i'd have to agree that webb would absolutely no longer be kings fans to claim. the best stretch of his career, in his prime, would have been in sacramento, but winning a title for his hometown would likely erase much of the anti-webber sentiment they've harbored since the michigan days. in fact, that would solidify his place in their hearts (cuz titled do that to fans), and i'd say he would have a much greater shot at the hall of fame. i've been rooting for detroit since he signed there...i even picked him up on one of my fantasy teams...but its still tough to see him excel in detroit when i've been saying from minute one that he'd still be contributing on the kings. he may not have been the superstar he once was, but he's still more of a leader than any current king can admit to being. chris webber could make ron artest better...he's the anti-artest...the kind of teammate you feel honored to play with.
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very well said
 
K

Kstat

Bench
#277
#277
Actually, if I could pick one of the 4 top teams in the west to play in the finals, I'd pick the Mavs. We match up extremely well with them, as opposed to Phoenix, SA and Utah.
 
acisking

acisking

Bench
#278
#278
A thought has crossed my mind recently while watching the Pistons. They aren't just better with Webber, they are better when running their entire offense through him. I have noticed that in their losses, the Pistons have gone away from Webb and in their wins, they ran plays through him. It is hard to imagine a midseason pickup becoming the legitimate go-to-guy on the Pistons, but the statistics (especially the win-loss column would tell you otherwise).

However, it also makes me wonder another critical point. It seems to me, that often times...the Pistons (espcially Chauncey and Rip) go through stretches where they do not give the ball to Webb. Granted, this is an important part of the team game, but in all honesty - they seem to be worst of in these stretches. Will the Pistons, especially Chauncey and Rip, be willing to run the ball through Chris for significant portions of the game come playoff time? I sincerely believe that the fate of the Pistons in the postseason is inherently tied into that question.
 
K

Kstat

Bench
#279
#279
Hardly.

The Pistons are a team that thrives on creating mismatches.

Games like last night where Webber has someone that can't guard him, we go through Webber.

But on the same token, there are games where our guards have a more favorable matchup, and we go through them in that instance.

While Webber decidedly improves our team, he's not always going to be the #1 option. Even Webber said that last night. The guy we go to in the 4th will be the guy with the weakest defender on him.

A telling stat last night, even with Webber's dominance, was that 8 different Pistons scored in the 4th quarter and no Piston attempted more than 3 shots.
 
love_them_kings

love_them_kings

Starter
#280
#280
Bricklayer said:
One little thing that makes me sad is just this -- Webb has long been on the fringes of HOF consideration. In another world would be very likely to make it, but just has had so much mess in his career with the legal issues, injuries etc. that it detracts. School of thought has been that if he ever broke through and won a title or two, that would be the "winner" image rehabilitation that he would need to get over the hump. Now I'm still nto sure Detroit is as good as any of the top 3 out West, but if Webb did break through here and win a title for his hometown Pistons, and that did one day lead to him making it into the HOF, it might be wearing a Pistons jersey rather than a Kings jersey. Best player we ever had, and maybe not ours to claim anymore in the end.
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Ugh. That is so hard to imagine, and it makes me so sad to think of seeing Webb in the HOF without a Kings jersey! Actually, it breaks my heart. It does raise an interesting point though. After Webb was discarded by the Maloofs (oh, I'm sorry, traded for "flexible trading pieces" why do I always mix those up) and through the Philly disaster it seemed clear that everyone was buying into the idea that Webb's best days were behind him. That what he had on the Kings was destined to be the glory days of his career that he would be remembered for. Well, obviously he isn't as athletic as he once was, but watching him play last night makes it very clear that he is still an excellent player. And if he could win a championship (and I too have my doubts about Detroit overcoming any of the big 3 in the west, but I will sure cheer my heart out for them!) with Detroit playing at that level, and not as a small role player, but as an integral part of their team, those would be his glory days. I hope it happens for him, I really do. But, like you, part of me would be sad that the best Kings basketball ever was just a step in the road.

But, since we cannot change history, I will continue to root for Detroit & hope that Webb gets the ring he deserves. And, seeing him in the HOF as a Piston is better than him not making it at all.... just not as good as seeing him in the HOF as a King. :(
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#281
#281
Padrino said:
i have my doubts that the pistons could beat the mavs, as well...but if, somehow, webb were to throw the pistons on his back and be the leader/major offensive cog, i'd say it could happen. and if it did, i'd have to agree that webb would absolutely no longer be kings fans to claim. the best stretch of his career, in his prime, would have been in sacramento, but winning a title for his hometown would likely erase much of the anti-webber sentiment they've harbored since the michigan days. in fact, that would solidify his place in their hearts (cuz titled do that to fans), and i'd say he would have a much greater shot at the hall of fame. i've been rooting for detroit since he signed there...i even picked him up on one of my fantasy teams...but its still tough to see him excel in detroit when i've been saying from minute one that he'd still be contributing on the kings. he may not have been the superstar he once was, but he's still more of a leader than any current king can admit to being. chris webber could make ron artest better...he's the anti-artest...the kind of teammate you feel honored to play with.
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I will ALWAYS be a Webber fan and I'll always be extremely proud of what he did for the Sacramento Kings. I don't think there's a law that says we won't be able to claim him if he gets to the big show and wins it all for Detroit. If people can hold dual citizenship, this is a prime example of two teams having a legitimate right to claim an athlete.

Just my three cents.

And one more thing? This is one Kings fan who will stand and be counted as a Webber fan regardless of the uniform he's wearing, either on the court or in the HoF.
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#282
#282
VF21 said:
I will ALWAYS be a Webber fan and I'll always be extremely proud of what he did for the Sacramento Kings. I don't think there's a law that says we won't be able to claim him if he gets to the big show and wins it all for Detroit. If people can hold dual citizenship, this is a prime example of two teams having a legitimate right to claim an athlete.

Just my three cents.

And one more thing? This is one Kings fan who will stand and be counted as a Webber fan regardless of the uniform he's wearing, either on the court or in the HoF.
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hehe...i certainly won't disagree with you. chris webber has been my favorite basketball player since the moment he put on that kings uniform. he brought legitimacy to the sacramento franchise, and as a fan, i'll probably never forget that. what's saddened me the most over the years is to see the way the media--as well as many kings fans--have painted him. he never received the credit he deserved. what a story it would be if detroit could get to the finals and go toe-to-toe with the mavs! just imagine if they won! oh my...detroit would be jumping! and as a kings fan, it doesn't hurt to see webber do well, and it wouldn't hurt to see mark cuban suffer because of another finals defeat! :D

its a win-win situation, as far as i'm concerned, and the pistons will be my team in the east until webber no longer wears their colors.
 
T

TurkeyStraightUp

Prospect
#283
#283
Padrino said:
hehe...i certainly won't disagree with you. chris webber has been my favorite basketball player since the moment he put on that kings uniform. he brought legitimacy to the sacramento franchise, and as a fan, i'll probably never forget that. what's saddened me the most over the years is to see the way the media--as well as many kings fans--have painted him. he never received the credit he deserved. what a story it would be if detroit could get to the finals and go toe-to-toe with the mavs! just imagine if they won! oh my...detroit would be jumping! and as a kings fan, it doesn't hurt to see webber do well, and it wouldn't hurt to see mark cuban suffer because of another finals defeat! :D

its a win-win situation, as far as i'm concerned, and the pistons will be my team in the east until webber no longer wears their colors.
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Yeah, Mark Cuban........I hope that when, not if, the Pistons meet the Mavs in the Finals, it is generally perceived that the Pistons are favored by the refs.

Might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for Cuban......:rolleyes:
 
K

Kstat

Bench
#284
#284
Tonight was a prime example of what I was talking about. Webber didn't have a real mismatch, so we let him play passer out of the post getting the ball to Rip and Tayshaun, both of whom DID have misatches. Webber only finished with 5 and 3, but had 8 assists, and we get another W because of it.
 
acisking

acisking

Bench
#285
#285
Kstat said:
Tonight was a prime example of what I was talking about. Webber didn't have a real mismatch, so we let him play passer out of the post getting the ball to Rip and Tayshaun, both of whom DID have misatches. Webber only finished with 5 and 3, but had 8 assists, and we get another W because of it.
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True but the offense was still run THROUGH him. I'm not saying that he has to be the go-to-guy, but that the offense is better when it runs through him. The problem he Pistons have is sometimes they have a tendency to run the clock down for too long and play stagnant offense at times. This is especially true in stretches where Chauncey or Rip just hold the ball. Obviously they may still have success this way, but it seems to be that the Pistons are better with Webb as the facilitator - either creating for himself or for others.
 
love_them_kings

love_them_kings

Starter
#286
#286
acisking said:
True but the offense was still run THROUGH him. I'm not saying that he has to be the go-to-guy, but that the offense is better when it runs through him. The problem he Pistons have is sometimes they have a tendency to run the clock down for too long and play stagnant offense at times. This is especially true in stretches where Chauncey or Rip just hold the ball. Obviously they may still have success this way, but it seems to be that the Pistons are better with Webb as the facilitator - either creating for himself or for others.
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I think you are both right. Webb obviously doesn't need to be, and shouldn't be, the Pistons leading scorer or #1 offensive option every game. However, Webb is a fantastic facilitator. He has great hands, and does a great job getting the ball to someone who can score. So, even if he's not racking up points on the scoreboard, he can still benefit the team if the ball goes through his hands.
 
K

Kstat

Bench
#287
#287
acisking said:
True but the offense was still run THROUGH him. I'm not saying that he has to be the go-to-guy, but that the offense is better when it runs through him. The problem he Pistons have is sometimes they have a tendency to run the clock down for too long and play stagnant offense at times. This is especially true in stretches where Chauncey or Rip just hold the ball. Obviously they may still have success this way, but it seems to be that the Pistons are better with Webb as the facilitator - either creating for himself or for others.
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Not Necessarily. Webber was simply a function of the offense tonight. He got touches, but not more than the rest of his teamates.

While Webber had 8 asissts, Billups had 9. It was all about who had the best angle to get Rip and Prince the ball.
 
Daniela

Daniela

Bench
#289
#289
Oh my. I hear about those days from the hubby and how I missed the best era in basketball. Thanks for posting it.

Again-Good solid contribution from Webber. He may not have had the points but his presence was felt and needed.

The player who isn't giving me what I believe to be his best is Chauncey. Something is missing there.
 
K

Kstat

Bench
#292
#292
17, 9 and 3 for Webber tonight, and we go into Phoenix without Chauncey Billups after the first quarter (groin tweak) and we blow the suns out of their own gym, 105-83.

While Webber didn't really dominate (that would be Flip Murray), he showed that he could effectively guard Amare Stoudamire, and scored at will on Amare in the paint. He had a SWEET reverse dunk on 3 suns at the rim that he got REALLY high for, as high up as Webber's gotten all year.

Ah, life is good.
 
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B

BMiller52

All-Star
#293
#293
Kstat said:
17, 9 and 3 for Webber tonight, and we go into Phoenix without Chauncey Billups after the first quarter (groin tweak) and we blow the suns out of their own gym, 105-83.

While Webber didn't really dominate, he showed that eh could effectively guard Amare Stoudamire, and scored at will on Amare in the paint. He had a SWEET reverse dunk on 3 suns at the rim that he got REALLY high for, as high up as Webber's gotten all year.

Ah, life is good.
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Man I want to see a clip of that so badly,
 
K

Kstat

Bench
#298
#298
I'm happy to see that Webber has picked up the Pistons team concept so quickly....

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0317suns0317-CP.html

"We're built for this," said Detroit's Chris Webber, whose Pistons are 21-7 since he joined them. "We're built for playoff basketball the way we played them tonight. Our philosophy is defense because we know everyone on our team can score. So we'll try to punish you inside and play our tempo and play great defense. Phoenix is such a great team and they capitalize off of mistakes. So you have to minimize your mistakes. It's not as easy for them."
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love_them_kings

love_them_kings

Starter
#299
#299
Kstat said:
17, 9 and 3 for Webber tonight, and we go into Phoenix without Chauncey Billups after the first quarter (groin tweak) and we blow the suns out of their own gym, 105-83.

While Webber didn't really dominate (that would be Flip Murray), he showed that he could effectively guard Amare Stoudamire, and scored at will on Amare in the paint. He had a SWEET reverse dunk on 3 suns at the rim that he got REALLY high for, as high up as Webber's gotten all year.

Ah, life is good.
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Another FUN Detroit game to watch! :) I know that basketball is supposed to be fun to watch, but as a Kings fan I seem to forget that sometimes. Sometimes it is agonizingly painful. :(

Webb looked great (needs to practice his FTs though). His dunk flat out left me with my mouth wide open. I seriously didn't think he could get up that high anymore.

Flip Murray was amazing. Killing the Suns without Billups was very impressive, I hope he's back for Sunday.
 
acisking

acisking

Bench
#300
#300
Love them Kings brought up an excellent point with regards to Webber's free throw shooting....although he seems to have become more efficient overall on the Pistons, I wonder why his free throw shooting has plummeted so much. Its sort of a shame because he's getting to the line more often than he has these past 2 years.
 
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