Voison: Now that he starts, no stopping him

Elise10

Starter
Ailene Voisin: Now that he starts, no stopping him
Published 2:15 am PST Wednesday, February 22, 2006
Story appeared in Sports section, Page C1

Some people will do just about anything for attention. Absorb an opponent's inadvertent elbow to the forehead. Hobble off to the locker room for stitches. Leave deposits of sweat and blood out there on the court. And need we mention, play the most consistent basketball of the season?

No, even before Troy Murphy landed his best shot - an inadverent blow delivered long after the outcome had been decided at Arco Arena Tuesday night - Kenny Thomas had forced his way back into the camera angles. More importantly, the soft-spoken veteran with the wide-eyed pose, the player who stares as if in perpetual pout, very quietly has rebounded his way back into the starting five.

He has been really, really good.


He has been too good to ignore anymore.

Capitalizing on opportunities presented by injuries to Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Bonzi Wells, Thomas has emerged as the Kings' most prolific rebounder, and as is becoming increasingly apparent, his particular skills are providing a nice frontcourt balance to the dynamic, dominant presence of Ron Artest. Good luck dislodging him now. Come to think of it, no one is. Any potential controversy has been snuffed out by the people in charge, and by the people involved.

"I don't see any reason to change," Rick Adelman said after his Kings had emerged with an important victory over the abysmal-shooting Golden State Warriors. Making Adelman's decision easier is the fact that Abdur-Rahim, still regaining his strength after having his jaw wired, is saying all the right things, through teeth that are no longer clenched.

No grousing. No playing the victim. He just wants to win. He just wants to play ... whenever.

"Whatever coach decides," Abdur-Rahim said late Tuesday. "If that means coming off the bench, I'll be productive. Right now our focus is to win games."

Particularly since the acquisition of Artest, the Kings' best prospects for victory seem to occur with the more versatile Thomas among the starters. As he demonstrated against the Warriors, his long limbs and lively, agile frame suggesting someone much taller than his listed 6-foot-7, 245 pounds, he aggressively pursues rebounds, shoots selectively and occasionally, and can surprise with instinctive, textbook passes. "Kenny does all the little things," offered Mike Bibby.
"I can't remember him taking a lot of bad shots. He does all the stuff that role players do."

Certainly more so as a starter than a sub. The statistics alone illustrate the classic, one-sided duel of the Thomases: In 27 games since relinquishing his starting job to Abdur-Rahim prior to the regular-season, the not-so-good Kenny averaged 5.9 points, 3.8 rebounds and 1.3 assists, while succeeding on 43 percent of his field-goal attempts. In 27 outings alongside the players whose names are announced during introductions (that would be No. 93), he is averaging 12.5 points, 10 rebounds, 2.4 assists, and shooting 50 percent.

"This is a great opportunity for me," said Thomas, after collecting 13 boards to go with three assists ... and five stitches. "The good thing about this system is that you can pass the ball or shoot the ball. If I'm not open, I'm not going to take the shot. But I'm going to rebound. That's a given. Right now, I'm over that (starting or subbing). We've got games to win."

Gone are the days when the Kings were carefree and casual, and pranced effortlessly into the playoffs, which is why Tuesday's victory was about much more than Northern California bragging rights.

Entering the always significant post All-Star stretch, in fact, neither the Kings nor the slumping Warriors reside among the playoff chosen.

Watching the Warriors play is like feasting on a steady diet of appetizers; the main course is never served. Observing the Kings - at least since the acquisition of Artest - is more similar to dining on a full-course meal. On their best nights, the passing and movement is exceptional, the rebounding adequate, the effort unwavering, and though the offense can be erratic, the defense remains capable of dictating the outcome. Even at their worst (see road loss at Memphis), they play inspired enough to remain in contention.

"I think they're moving forward," observed Warriors assistant John MacLeod. "Just looking at Ron (Artest), he is big and strong. ... And of course, he's a strong defender. I think this changes their team for the better."
So does the other major development, the one involving the other Kings forward. Thomas, the starter, is an upgrade over Thomas, the sub. Can't ignore him any longer, certainly not of late.
 
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That's just stupid.

I expect the SAME treatment for Bonzi then.

"This is a great opportunity for me," said Thomas, after collecting 13 boards to go with three assists ... and five stitches. "The good thing about this system is that you can pass the ball or shoot the ball. If I'm not open, I'm not going to take the shot. But I'm going to rebound. That's a given. Right now, I'm over that (starting or subbing). We've got games to win."

Easy to say when you are starting.

This is garbage. I hope Reef demands a trade after the season.
 
playmaker0017 said:
That's just stupid.

I expect the SAME treatment for Bonzi then.

"This is a great opportunity for me," said Thomas, after collecting 13 boards to go with three assists ... and five stitches. "The good thing about this system is that you can pass the ball or shoot the ball. If I'm not open, I'm not going to take the shot. But I'm going to rebound. That's a given. Right now, I'm over that (starting or subbing). We've got games to win."

Easy to say when you are starting.

This is garbage. I hope Reef demands a trade after the season.

Some players don't play well off the bench. Thomas has played 10 times better starting than coming off the bench. SAR has played well even though he's coming off the bench. SAR played well last night, Kenny never played well off the bench. SAR is still underweight and if Kenny ever falters, SAR definitely deserves to start. With Kenny starting, instead of coming off the bench, I think we have a better chance at winning and really isn't that the only thing that matters.
 
playmaker0017 said:
That's just stupid.

I expect the SAME treatment for Bonzi then.

"This is a great opportunity for me," said Thomas, after collecting 13 boards to go with three assists ... and five stitches. "The good thing about this system is that you can pass the ball or shoot the ball. If I'm not open, I'm not going to take the shot. But I'm going to rebound. That's a given. Right now, I'm over that (starting or subbing). We've got games to win."

Easy to say when you are starting.

This is garbage. I hope Reef demands a trade after the season.

I do see your point though :) KT was not "singing" this tune when he was coming off the bench.
 
bigbadred00 said:
Some players don't play well off the bench. Thomas has played 10 times better starting than coming off the bench.

That's a choice.

A player is productive when they want to be. They may not be 100% as effective, but pulling a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde? Come on.

SAR has played well even though he's coming off the bench. SAR played well last night, Kenny never played well off the bench.

So, our most consistant player throughout the season and the one that has put the team first should be the one that gets the crap deal?

SAR is still underweight and if Kenny ever falters, SAR definitely deserves to start. With Kenny starting, instead of coming off the bench, I think we have a better chance at winning and really isn't that the only thing that matters.

Yes, it is the only thing that matters during the season. Which is why I said I would like it if Reef demands a trade in the offseason.

I may be overreacting, but I think it's nonsense. You're trying to tell me that if Bibby went down with an injury and Garcia came in and we went on a winning streak and he was getting 9 assists a game ... you'd be for Bibby on the bench? No ... all anyone would say is "wait till Bibby gets back".

If anything, all that this team has done all season is pee on Reef, really. That's just my opinion, but it's how I feel. He's the most talented and efficient scorer on the roster - and was getting the fewest shot attempts. He's underutilized. He's also not given the credit for being the teams bright spot on defense until Artest arrived. PF is the toughest position to play in the NBA as it's rife with talent ... and Reef was among the best in the league at keeping his opponent in a low PER rating and low scoring. His rebounding went down after an injury and that's all anyone could focus on.
 
I'm the first to admit that KT has a attitude problem, and I don't really like rewarding bad behavioir by buying into the "I can only play well if I start" thing.

Every time I read something SAR says I have even more respect for him. He seems to have a good grasp of what's important, and at this point it is winning games. Personally, I'd take him over KT any day of the week, but Adelman needs to do whatever he thinks is going to get us to the playoffs.

As far as how SAR has been treated, I really don't see that he's been treated badly. He was starting until his injury, and at this point he's not up to 100% strength, so bring him in gradually. I hardly think that's cruel or unusual treatment.
 
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The way I look at it is we have 2 starting calibur Power Forwards. Shareef is still getting minutes. It's not like Bibby playing 44 minutes and the sub getting 4. The minutes are in Kenny's favor, but not abudantly I dono't think. I see SAR on the floor pretty regularly. As they say, "It's not who starts the game, it's who finishes. People lose sight of that sometimes."
 
We will not win anything with either Reef or Thomas starting...Voison remains an idoit. Since Thomas is doing well now, find a taker for him and lets bring in a real power forward.
 
playmaker0017 said:
So, our most consistant player throughout the season and the one that has put the team first should be the one that gets the crap deal?
There is just no truth to Reef being the most consistent player this seaso, all one would have to do is run through the Kings game log and see the inconsistencies in the numbers. Further, Brad Miller has been this teams most consistent player.
 
piksi said:
being a most consistant player on a sub .500 team - is really not a big deal anyways

Well, to be even a sub .500 team you have to have someone that is atleast somewhat consistent. If we didn't have any consistency at all we'd be looking like the Knicks right now. Consistently terrible.
 
I love Yoda-Piksi exchange of words matches :)

This saturday Don King presents live from Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas:

yoda.jpg
vs.
0002025v.jpg
 
vj9999 said:
I love Yoda-Piksi exchange of words matches :)

This saturday Don King presents live from Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas:

yoda.jpg
vs.
0002025v.jpg

LOL, thanks for the laugh. It was needed.
 
SAR has only been on this team for 1 year. While being pretty good, when he was starting we really weren't anything special. I don't think we're that special (yet, although improving every week), but Kenny brings something SAR doesn't offer. Since the rest of the team is a below average rebounder for their position (as long as Bonzi is out), Kenny brings in something we need, a consistant rebounding performer. SAR is good, but he never proved he was "can't move out of the starting lineup" good. Until he proves that (hopefully he will), I don't see a problem with Kenny starting in his place.

As I've said before, does it really matter who is starting if we are winning? Not really. It's not like SAR doesn't play that much (20+ minutes a game) even though he's still not 100%.
 
the whole kenny vs SAR thing is ridiculous. the fact is that neither are adequate to start considering the team's weaknesses (ie: INTERIOR DEFENSE & REBOUNDING). both are solid contributors. either would be a capable backup (at least, KT would if he could accept the role). the point is, we need to compensate for miller's defensive/rebounding weaknesses. i say we need to compensate for miller's weaknesses and not reef's weaknesses because i believe brad miller brings more important elements to the kings team. he's a great floor general, and the two man game with miller and bibby is essential when considering the offense the kings run.

miller brings a very unique skillset to the table for a center, and it is very valuable. a lotta people would disagree with me, but i believe miller's skillset is valuable because it forces the defense to actually adjust to the kings. its one of the few mismatches we have in that regard. of course, the knock on brad miller is that he's a subpar rebounder for his position and a poor defender, in general. reef, as solid as he is, is too small to play the PF when brad miller is the starting C, because he does not provide enough interior defense, help defense, or rebounding to compensate for miller's weaknesses.

if we trade miller for an interior defender and rebounding machine, then i say its appropriate to keep reef at the starting PF. at his salary, he's very solid. but, if we trade miller, then there's not much point in keeping bibby around, either, imo. bibby's greatest strengths are his clutch style of play, his propensity to go on offensive tears (as rare as they seem these days), and his ability to run a two man game with at least one other player on the team. he did it with divac and webber, and now he's doing it with miller. take away miller (who is the kings real playmaker), and bibby is only a shell of his former self. he'll have to do much more playmaking then he is comfortable with, and i imagine he'd be much less effective.

the point is, the kings need to start catering to their weaknesses. reef, KT...who cares who starts? neither is really the answer to the kings problems. KT has been rebounding well of late, and the difference has shown. we're actually outrebounding some of our opponents, and guess what? we've won 7 of the last 10. rebounding is key, as is interior defense. that is one thing, unfortunately, that KT does not really provide in any capacity. reef has been known, on occasion, to play decent defense. however, he's been a very poor rebounder for us (hurt or not) all season long. not to mention that you simply cannot teach height, to either reef or KT. the kings need to get bigger. simple as that.
 
vj9999 said:
I love Yoda-Piksi exchange of words matches :)

This saturday Don King presents live from Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas:

yoda.jpg
vs.
0002025v.jpg

funny

and it has to be Palms and not Bellagio
 
playmaker0017 said:
That's just stupid.

I expect the SAME treatment for Bonzi then.

"This is a great opportunity for me," said Thomas, after collecting 13 boards to go with three assists ... and five stitches. "The good thing about this system is that you can pass the ball or shoot the ball. If I'm not open, I'm not going to take the shot. But I'm going to rebound. That's a given. Right now, I'm over that (starting or subbing). We've got games to win."

Easy to say when you are starting.

This is garbage. I hope Reef demands a trade after the season.

Easy to say when the Kings are winning. Just warning you, but most non-player fans here will not like your little diatribe here. I'd reccomend just taking a deep breath, and think about what's best for the team, not SAR.
 
How bout we blend KT's and SAR's stregths together and give them 2 inches of height. I'll call the combination, KG. ROFL.

If we really want to get bold how bout this:

Trade Bibby and Brad and a future first to Minne for KG.

Keep Martin, Artest, Garcia, and either SAR or Kenny.

Trade one of our guys coming off cap (Scoreless or Skinner, they probally want Skinner) for Brevin Knight who is an above average rebounder and great assist man. Felton will soon unseat the guy. Although we might have to give a draft pick as well.

Draft a PG in the draft.

Put KG at Center. Get a cheap FA Center.

Lineup looks like

Knight, Draft Pick
Martin, Garcia
Artest, Garcia
Sar, Kenny (I guess we keep them both), switch it around honestly.
KG, FA

Not a bad team. Pipe dreams though if your dreaming about moving Miller. Will also have either Scoreless or Skinner still around giving us a roughly 9 man rotation which has a great rebounder and shot blocker in KG. Has 2 quality PFs, the best swing defender in the league, a shooter in Martin and a passer in Brevin who also plays pretty good D. Pipe dreams though I say.
 
I'm glad Kenny is starting. He's much more productive than he was coming off the bench. And Reef shouldn't have a problem with this. Kenny is outplaying Reef as a starter. When Reef was a starter he wasn't putting up Thomas's numbers. If Reef was putting up 20-12 before he got hurt (yes I know Thomas isn't putting that up but it goes for my point) there would be no argument once Reef came back as to who was starting. But since Kenny has been better as a starter then Reef was as a starter and Reef has been better as a bench player than Kenny was coming off the bench, it's just plain logic to start Kenny
 
SacKings384 said:
I'm glad Kenny is starting. He's much more productive than he was coming off the bench. And Reef shouldn't have a problem with this. Kenny is outplaying Reef as a starter. When Reef was a starter he wasn't putting up Thomas's numbers. If Reef was putting up 20-12 before he got hurt (yes I know Thomas isn't putting that up but it goes for my point) there would be no argument once Reef came back as to who was starting. But since Kenny has been better as a starter then Reef was as a starter and Reef has been better as a bench player than Kenny was coming off the bench, it's just plain logic to start Kenny

It's just unfortunate that the stats don't agree.
 
SAR is more of a scoring threat than Thomas and that is what we need with Garcia in the game it gives a nice inside outside game off the bench. I like it as long as SAR gets 20 min a game coming in at 4 and 5.
 
Dangit Playmaker look at it this way:

Shareef has wanted to be on a winning team his whole career and if his team wins with Kenny starting but HE'S STILL GETTING MINUTES who cares?
 
Maybe we should start Brad Miller at PF with Skinner at C. Then after a few minutes you can sub in SAR or KT at PF and Miller moves over to C. Then neither SAR nor KT gets to be a starter and we can quit having this argument. (And wouldn't Skinner be thrilled. ;) ) I don't like that KT wasn't happy coming off the bench and I won't like it if SAR is unhappy coming off the bench. All I care about is if we win a LOT.
 
playmaker0017 said:
That's just stupid.

I expect the SAME treatment for Bonzi then.

"This is a great opportunity for me," said Thomas, after collecting 13 boards to go with three assists ... and five stitches. "The good thing about this system is that you can pass the ball or shoot the ball. If I'm not open, I'm not going to take the shot. But I'm going to rebound. That's a given. Right now, I'm over that (starting or subbing). We've got games to win."

Easy to say when you are starting.

This is garbage. I hope Reef demands a trade after the season.

Oh good lord.

You never cease to amaze me. This whole starter thing has become your personal obsession, hasn't it? Do you think Shareef would actually appreciate seeing you or some of his other "friends" make these kinds of comments while he's busy trying to help HIS TEAM get into the playoffs?

You really need to take a pill...

You hope Reef demands a trade? I hope he's smarter than that.
 
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