If they draft Mudiay, then keep Collison. Karl wants to be able to run a 2 PG backcourt out there. Mudiay has the size and length to guard SGs....it could be ideal.
Voisin: Divac ‘protective’ of Kings’ No. 6 pick; will it be Mudiay?
- Thread starter Gilles
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Yes but Collison's trade value is never going to be any higher. Drafting Mudiay means we're not drafting a wing or a big and we still have a lot of needs to fill. I really like Collison but he's got 2 years on his deal -- he's not a foundational piece. If we can turn Stauskas and Collison into a physical defender (either a wing or a big) on a 4 year rookie deal and a veteran shooter we have less holes to fill in free agency and hopefully that means entering next season with a more balanced roster that can contend for a playoff spot.
King Baller
All-Star
The Kings need to become a better shooting team, not worse. So I say pass on Mudiay.
IfAt1st
Starter
You can't be serious.
I must be missing something in your suggestions, because it sounds like you are suggesting trading our reliable starting point guard and relying on a rookie PG to pick up the slack.
We've tried that before - how'd that Beno for Jimmer attempt work out?
You're not going to throw Jimmer in my face after I was vehemently against that draft pick from the beginning and said so on this very message board many times. It's not like Beno was a can't miss stud either. Brandon Knight would have been a smarter pick. He wasn't great his rookie year, but he developed into a solid young starting PG like he was expected to. That's a player we absolutely could have used on our team this year. I think we maximize Collison's current value in a trade rather than losing him for nothing in two years when he seeks out a starting job somewhere else. We're in talent acquisition mode right now. There's no award for playing it safe. If we can trade Collison for an elite prospect on a 4 year rookie deal and bring in a stopgap veteran PG until Mudiay is ready, absolutely we should do it.
IfAt1st
Starter
What veteran stopgap PG is going to come in and perform on this team as well as Collison was last year, for anywhere near Collison's salary?
You simply CAN NOT trade your starting PG (arguably the most important position on the team) unless it's for someone tangibly better, if you are in must-win-now mode.
If the Kings aren't a winning team next season, Demarcus is gone.
All likelihood of a winning team is gone, and the new arena will be a ghost town in 2016.
What future are you leveraging your current chances for?
This is getting absurd - KF's are actually suggesting to deliberately make the team worse next season, just to lose Demarcus, gut the critical excitement of 2016/17 new-arena season, all because they somehow KNOW the future and that the Kings can't turn it around next season.
Let's wait to see how they can do this one last gasp season, OK?
Let's not shovel dirt on Boogie's future w/ the Kings until we actually give it a real run this next year, OK?
I'm a cynical, conspiracy-seeing guy, but this defeatist mentality around here recently is starting to pee me off!
You simply CAN NOT trade your starting PG (arguably the most important position on the team) unless it's for someone tangibly better, if you are in must-win-now mode.
If the Kings aren't a winning team next season, Demarcus is gone.
All likelihood of a winning team is gone, and the new arena will be a ghost town in 2016.
What future are you leveraging your current chances for?
This is getting absurd - KF's are actually suggesting to deliberately make the team worse next season, just to lose Demarcus, gut the critical excitement of 2016/17 new-arena season, all because they somehow KNOW the future and that the Kings can't turn it around next season.
Let's wait to see how they can do this one last gasp season, OK?
Let's not shovel dirt on Boogie's future w/ the Kings until we actually give it a real run this next year, OK?
I'm a cynical, conspiracy-seeing guy, but this defeatist mentality around here recently is starting to pee me off!
We don't know that Mudiay will be a bust as a rookie. I already posted this elsewhere, but a lot of lotto pick PGs have excelled in their rookie season recently. Rose, Irving, Lillard, Curry, Jennings, Evans, Carter-Williams. I think Collison to Mudiay is a clear talent upgrade regardless, and I say that as someone who always liked Collison and felt he was underrated. I loved brining in Collison to replace IT but I'm not going to pass up a blue-chip PG if given the chance nor am I going to hang onto a valuable trade chip a year too late because I don't trust my own ability to evaluate talent. If you read what I wrote in the Perfect Off-Season thread, you'd see that I have us bringing in both Mudiay and Rondo this off-season which makes Collison redundant. If we have a chance to trade a mid-level vet for a five star prospect at a position of need you say no thanks we need to win 50 games next year or else? I think Stanley Johnson and Myles Turner are both top 5 talents in this draft. If I can get either one of them at 9, I'd be thrilled.
Did you miss "PO team" part? Irving successfully led his team to tied-4th, 3rd and 9th worst records in first 3 years of his NBA career.
Tell me you're smarter than that. So 19, 5, and 4 isn't good enough for a playoff team? They lost because they were too weak at the PG position and would have made the playoffs with a veteran like Collison? I show you a player who just finished averaging 21 pts, 5.7 asts, and 3.7rebs and made 3 All Star games (winning the MVP in one of them) over the course of his rookie contract and your response is "thanks but no thanks, took him 3 years to reach the playoffs"?
Can't you just admit that there have been some rookie PGs who instantly made their teams better? Brandon Jennings was drafted as a 19 yo one year removed from high school who skipped college and played a year overseas. He started all 82 games and led the Bucks to the playoffs in his rookie season. This is a team that won only 34 games the year before. Derrick Rose was drafted as a 19 yo one year removed from high school and he started 80 games for Chicago in his rookie season, played 37 minutes per game, and led them to the playoffs too. Two years later he was the league MVP. That Bulls team, btw, had also employed three different coaches the year before en route to a 33 win season. Damian Lillard didn't make the playoffs until his second season but he averaged 19, 6.5, and 3 in his first year and made the All Star game in his second and third seasons.
You continue with "rookie PGs who instantly made their teams better", when it wasn't instantly, but rather somewhere in the 2nd season, and all of those were clear #1.
Bucks had much better production (much more games) from their best players after Jennings was drafted, so he wasn't the reason for POs.
Again you're missing the point, which is: rookies are not even average players for at least half a season. It's not about talent. It's about having finished skillset and understanding of the game.
Bucks had much better production (much more games) from their best players after Jennings was drafted, so he wasn't the reason for POs.
Again you're missing the point, which is: rookies are not even average players for at least half a season. It's not about talent. It's about having finished skillset and understanding of the game.
BS! Brandon Jennings scored 17 points, grabbed 9 rebounds and dished 9 assists in his first NBA game. He scored 55 points in his 7th NBA game, at a point in his career where you would have me believe he was still learning how to tie his own shoes correctly. Damn right the Bucks got much better production from their best players after they added Jennings to the lineup. Why do you think that is? John Salmons, Andrew Bogut, Carlos Delfino, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Luck Ridnour, Ersan Ilyasova, and 30yr old Michael Redd is hardly a murder's row of talent. Jennings was far and away the best player on the team that year. Andrew Bogut scored 16 pts per game and he's never been able to create his own shot. I watched the Bucks a lot that year because I was a big Brandon Jennings fan. Almost all of Boguts baskets were assisted by Jennings.
This is what he did as an 18 year old playing in a professional league:
Yes it's the CBA, but this kid is fresh out of high school and he's an instant star there. He was also one of the standout players in all three of the big High School All-Star games. He's already got elite size for his NBA position so that isn't a problem. I don't know what would constitute evidence for you, but so far he's risen to the top of every level of basketball he's played in. There's never a guarantee of anything, but I feel good about Mudiay's potential rookie season. Better than I do about most of the prospects in this draft.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
on NBA-TV (I think) yesterday, the con's on Mudiay were: defense, shooting and free throws. Hmmmm, why would Kings want anyone with those negatives? And he has only played a total of 12 games since high school and all in China. Big red flag to me, 6-5 or not. No way.
He played only 12 games because he got injured. Kyrie Irving played only 11 games at Duke for the same reason. Also, if NBA-TV said his defense is a con then they're flat out wrong. His effort on defense isn't consistent, but he has lockdown potential at his position. The shooting needs to improve, particularly from the free throw line, but he doesn't look helpless in that regard. The main problem with his jumpshot is that he's inconsistent with his mechanics. Watching the workout tapes, he's barely jumping on his practice shots. Watching him at game speed, he gets good elevation on his jumper but he shoots on the way down, probably to approximate the same eye-line he sees on his practice shots. If I can see this as an amateur basketball enthusiast, I'm pretty sure a coaching staff can get to work on cleaning this up. Form and follow-through look clean.
AaronPDX
Bench
Is there ANY legit footage of Mudiay anyone has seen? I can't find anything real telling out there. I read he's not a great shooter, not a high IQ guy, I'm not really sure what is UPside is ??
Drafting guys that aren't very bright doesn't seem the route to go these days. Just my $0.02.
Drafting guys that aren't very bright doesn't seem the route to go these days. Just my $0.02.
Where are you getting any of this from? Watch him run the pick and roll in the Draftexpress Scouting video. He's not a dumb player. I forget where I posted the videos now, but you can watch the entirety of his HS All-Star games on Youtube.
EDIT: Here they are... (link) Scroll down to find the McDonald's All-Star game and Jordan Brand Classic.
Here's one of his full games in China:
Mudiay is #0 in white. Fast forward to the 10:22 mark for the first time he subs into the game. According to the boxscore he finished this game with 23 points, 9 rebounds, and 8 assists.
That's over 6 hours of basketball if you watch all 4 of those games, but if you want to inform yourself there's no other way. I'll keep looking for more complete games.
EDIT: If you don't want to watch this full game, I recommend at least watching the third quarter. He had 10 pts, 4 rebs, 6 asts and a steal in the quarter, played solid defense, and looked particularly explosive off the dribble.
Mudiay is #0 in white. Fast forward to the 10:22 mark for the first time he subs into the game. According to the boxscore he finished this game with 23 points, 9 rebounds, and 8 assists.
That's over 6 hours of basketball if you watch all 4 of those games, but if you want to inform yourself there's no other way. I'll keep looking for more complete games.
EDIT: If you don't want to watch this full game, I recommend at least watching the third quarter. He had 10 pts, 4 rebs, 6 asts and a steal in the quarter, played solid defense, and looked particularly explosive off the dribble.
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There's a new article on ESPN about Mudiay if you haven't already seen it. It goes into more detail about his background and why he chose to play in China this year instead of going to SMU.
It's a good read.
It's a good read.
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