Another offensive gimmick system with no applicability in the nba.
Vivek wants to play 4 on 5 on D
- Thread starter Albatros
- Start date
Another offensive gimmick system with no applicability in the nba.
Theoretically I don't see any advantage on how this is being pitched, but let's say the player guarding an outside shooter just jets down court make or miss? It would lead to a handful of fast breaks and a handful of 4 on 5 situations where the shot is missed, an offensive rebound is made and the offense goes back into a set offense rather than put backs or inside game.
I'm not saying I care for the idea, but it's pretty easy how it can be taken to an extreme for click-generation.
I don't think this is about Sim, because a big guy has to be playing defense. Heck, I wouldn't trust that guy to run down a 3/4 court length throw which is bound to be off a bit.
I'm not saying I care for the idea, but it's pretty easy how it can be taken to an extreme for click-generation.
I don't think this is about Sim, because a big guy has to be playing defense. Heck, I wouldn't trust that guy to run down a 3/4 court length throw which is bound to be off a bit.
I legit laughed when I saw this article.
I liken Vivek to suffering from the Cuban syndrome of where he's way smarter than everyone and expects that to be the same within the basketball world. I always thought Cuban was an idiot until I started watching Shark Tank (great show btw,) and saw Cuban really does have a brilliant business acumen.
Not something to be concerned about in my book. Just an owner who's used to innovating everything he does trying to apply that to the basketball world.
I liken Vivek to suffering from the Cuban syndrome of where he's way smarter than everyone and expects that to be the same within the basketball world. I always thought Cuban was an idiot until I started watching Shark Tank (great show btw,) and saw Cuban really does have a brilliant business acumen.
Not something to be concerned about in my book. Just an owner who's used to innovating everything he does trying to apply that to the basketball world.
I don't trust Sim to stay out there for more than 5 minutes.. His fatigue would catch up to him so quick. I hope he can improve his conditioning. If he can lose at least 40 more lbs, he might be able to be a 5min per game guy...Aaron Gray type of player.
SCKingsfan
Bench
Thank God the season is about to begin, because this tdos conjecture and interpretation of non contextualized media reports, leading to the-sky-is-falling (or soon will be) anxieties is about to drive me insane. There will be simpler reasons as to why we may not be good this year. And plenty of blame to go around. Starting with the roster itself. Then rotations. then ball moment, then shooting, then defense. IMO, Viveks theories about 4 on 5 bb at this point are pretty far down the list of things I'm concerned about. and I'd like to give it 5 to 10 games first before I start screaming about the sky falling too 
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Not really sure why you ever thought Cuban was an idiot. Unless your pertaining to his antics on the sidelines. He always has a competitive team, and he has a ring. More than you can say for half the owners in the league, if not more. And I agree with you. Shark Tank is a very good show. As for Vivek and his idea, it doesn't bother me. He never said he wanted to play that way, he just suggested it as an idea. So you can't blame him for trying to think out of the box. As long as he defers to Malone and other basketball minds on the team, let him dream up anything he wants. Hell, who knows, maybe he'll actually come up with something no one has thought of yet. Doubt it though...
bajaden
Hall of Famer
His supposed weight at summer league was 360, and I suggested that his playing weight needed to be at 300 or lower. So he needs to lose at least 60 pounds, and get into shape at the same time. Just losing the weight isn't going to do it. I have my doubts that he's capable, but if he's willing to put in the work, he can do it. Just a matter of how bad he wants it. Working on his skills wouldn't hurt either.
I'd go as far as to say that Sims doesn't have the work ethic for the NBA, but I'm not sure of it yet. I think if he was really serious about the NBA, he would've never entered the draft at the weight he was.
In an article form 2013, it said he weighed 355lbs.. I'm just trying to be optimistic about him, but realistically, I don't think he's serious about the NBA. The only reason why Pete brought him in was probably because of Vivek.
macadocious
Starter
Anyone hear Malones interview with Grant?
CurseOfTheSalmons
Starter
no... link?
macadocious
Starter
That's what I'm asking
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
When was it given?
macadocious
Starter
Today. I saw on twitter that he was interviewing him, but I saw it after the fact
Larry David
Starter
Man, within a few months of each other:
* Pull in randoms off the street to crowd source the draft before we hire actual primary analytics guy
* Pushes team to sign Bhullar, who is not an NBA player based upon affinity for him
* Hires son of coach at BS Grinelle school, that doesn't really play basketball, mostly runs gimmicks to break records to coach him D-League team
* Pushes NBA team to adopt 4 x 5 and cherry pick scheme.
I hope he gets somebody he trusts that will tell him flat out - no, stop it, and sit down
I pray he doesn't go - see, I told you guys that should have been thinking way out the box, when we are several games under .500 at Christmas.
* Pull in randoms off the street to crowd source the draft before we hire actual primary analytics guy
* Pushes team to sign Bhullar, who is not an NBA player based upon affinity for him
* Hires son of coach at BS Grinelle school, that doesn't really play basketball, mostly runs gimmicks to break records to coach him D-League team
* Pushes NBA team to adopt 4 x 5 and cherry pick scheme.
I hope he gets somebody he trusts that will tell him flat out - no, stop it, and sit down
I pray he doesn't go - see, I told you guys that should have been thinking way out the box, when we are several games under .500 at Christmas.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Chubbs
Starter
And that doesn't concern you? That they're turning the Kings into a bad reality show?
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
Yea.........so...... let's not do this.
I think it is exactly this and the guy sneaking to leak out should have a perfect timing and should be a very good sprinter and strong finisher. I think this play is not how Bricklayer understood it, where in you put the big guy (Sim Bhullar) behind on defense to be the receiver/scorer in transition.One of the 5 will have an open shot. I think perhaps this is a misunderstanding that is being reported to drum up hits on a website
Perhaps Vivek was just saying he wants a guy to leak out after the ball goes up and the rebounder or guy taking it out can look down court for the long pass for the easy hoop.
Who's going to protect the rim, get the defensive rebound, and do the outlet pass if your big guy (Sim) is not there defensively? It does not make sense to think the receiver would the big player like Sim. Vivek is probably not that stupid.
This scheme works at low-level basketball games, practice games, street basketball, or high school games. Many of us who had played elementary and high school basketball probably remembers doing this. But it will never work at the highly organized games being played in the NBA. I doubt if the scheme might even have a chance of success at the Collegiate level. Maybe it can happen in 1-2 plays in an NBA game, but I doubt the coach of another team wouldn't notice this scheme and not be able to prevent it from happening again.
Very amateurish, but who knows?
It might actually work from time to time against a very distracted and tired opponent. IMO, it is worth a try if it can give you 1-2 quick baskets a game.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
It works perfectly well if DeMarcus Cousins is also in the game, which he could be since the two would never have to share the same side of the court.
IN fact the ONLY bizarre land where it has some sort of out of the box chance to work consistently is when you have a 7'5" 350lb center. Because if he lingers back by the opposing hoop he is completely unguardable. You can throw balls to him that nobody else can catch. And if they don't catch them and he gets it, nobody back that fast has any shot to alter Sim's shot. Every single ball you throw to him accurately is basically a 100% layup opportunity from point blank range, and no PG or SG hustling back has any chance to do anything about it. Its the only basketball neophyte way to make the numbers work out. Any smaller player down there can be defended, can miss his shots with guards flying at him. Its also the only reasonable way such an idea would have ever been come up with. Vivek may be woefully new to the game, but painting him as an idiot who would randomly suggest such a bizarre strategy for basketball players perfectly capable of playing both ends is a bit much. On the other hand, it makes perfect cracked sense to suggest it to support a unique player who we just so happen to have picked up and carried through the summer and who was traveling with Vivek to New York for Indian cultural activities etc. It makes sense as a wild response to a specific problem posed: how do you make Sim Bhullar into an actual NBA player? Makes much less sense as a random muse "how do we do something unnecessary and stupid today?"
To be fair I've had a similar random muse about ice hockey, which is a sport I have low tolerance of mostly because of its juvenile machismo. But my ice hockey brainstorm was this: look at that little tiny net. The only way to score is to put the puck in that little tiny net. Well... what if then you built a wall in front of that net? As in a human wall? You get a big ass sumo wrestler -- my initial idea was that 800 lb American sumo -- you get him some reinforced skates and teach him just enough skating to skate in a straight line from the bench to the goal. And then you have him skate straight out there, and plop, sit right down on his giant 800lb ass in front of that little tiny net. In full 800lb man hockey goalie pads, I seriously think he could block the entire goal. You physically could not score. It seems like genius to me. For some reason my hockey loving friends/brothers do not seem to think so, but I think they are just in denial and don't want to see the sport they love destroyed/perverted by such a brilliant gimmick. Now however, if I bought the Islanders tomorrow would I suggest my gimmick to my GM? Everybody shake their head no. I know an amusing theoretical muse from an actual tactic when I see one.
This cherry picking thing is the same way. Not only would it be despised as all cherry picking is, but it would ruin the flow/entertainment of the game and be outlawed if it actually started to work well enough to be used routinely. Hence, amusing theoretical muse, nothing more.
IN fact the ONLY bizarre land where it has some sort of out of the box chance to work consistently is when you have a 7'5" 350lb center. Because if he lingers back by the opposing hoop he is completely unguardable. You can throw balls to him that nobody else can catch. And if they don't catch them and he gets it, nobody back that fast has any shot to alter Sim's shot. Every single ball you throw to him accurately is basically a 100% layup opportunity from point blank range, and no PG or SG hustling back has any chance to do anything about it. Its the only basketball neophyte way to make the numbers work out. Any smaller player down there can be defended, can miss his shots with guards flying at him. Its also the only reasonable way such an idea would have ever been come up with. Vivek may be woefully new to the game, but painting him as an idiot who would randomly suggest such a bizarre strategy for basketball players perfectly capable of playing both ends is a bit much. On the other hand, it makes perfect cracked sense to suggest it to support a unique player who we just so happen to have picked up and carried through the summer and who was traveling with Vivek to New York for Indian cultural activities etc. It makes sense as a wild response to a specific problem posed: how do you make Sim Bhullar into an actual NBA player? Makes much less sense as a random muse "how do we do something unnecessary and stupid today?"
To be fair I've had a similar random muse about ice hockey, which is a sport I have low tolerance of mostly because of its juvenile machismo. But my ice hockey brainstorm was this: look at that little tiny net. The only way to score is to put the puck in that little tiny net. Well... what if then you built a wall in front of that net? As in a human wall? You get a big ass sumo wrestler -- my initial idea was that 800 lb American sumo -- you get him some reinforced skates and teach him just enough skating to skate in a straight line from the bench to the goal. And then you have him skate straight out there, and plop, sit right down on his giant 800lb ass in front of that little tiny net. In full 800lb man hockey goalie pads, I seriously think he could block the entire goal. You physically could not score. It seems like genius to me. For some reason my hockey loving friends/brothers do not seem to think so, but I think they are just in denial and don't want to see the sport they love destroyed/perverted by such a brilliant gimmick. Now however, if I bought the Islanders tomorrow would I suggest my gimmick to my GM? Everybody shake their head no. I know an amusing theoretical muse from an actual tactic when I see one.
This cherry picking thing is the same way. Not only would it be despised as all cherry picking is, but it would ruin the flow/entertainment of the game and be outlawed if it actually started to work well enough to be used routinely. Hence, amusing theoretical muse, nothing more.
It will be very interesting to find out how much of a "YES SIR" that coach in Reno in trying to implement this Vivek experiment.
Larry David
Starter
It will be very interesting to find out how much of a "YES SIR" that coach in Reno in trying to implement this Vivek experiment.
His dad turned a small school into a circus and bastardized the game of basketball with gimmicks to raise his own profile. I think it's fair to assume that the basketball people told Vivek they weren't ready to give his experiments the time of day with the Kings, but if he wanted to make Reno his toy so be it. I doubt an assistant coach from a DIII gimmick school would push back vs his NBA owner. More likely, he was probably brought in as a partner in crime.
Hockey goal is 72 inches wide and 48 inches tall. No ammunition will cover that, if your goalie is standing up. Or lying down. And you seriously underestimate skill level of hockey players: openly made wrist shots are relatively easy catch for good athletes, but your sumo wrestler has infinite reaction time, so it's just a question of finding little holes in a wall, and most guys can show such precision.
Larry David
Starter
No, it's time to do this. After a summer full of nutty, he needs the local fans and media to push some "Hey, new guy. Slow down with trying to reinvent the NBA wheel with outside the box ideas and keep your head down a little." Pretty soon he will be stuck with a national reputation as an eccentric owner which will hurt the franchise for a long time.
It's not time to panic. But it's now time for him to start either figuring things out or at least keeping his crazy ideas out of the press. Get smart or shut up.
Die hard kings fans and KHTK allowed the Maloofs to fester way too long to sever detriment. I'm still rooting for Vivek. He could turn this around in a few months. But the willful blindness to poor ownership in Sacramento should be over.
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