Venominal: Knee Jerk reactions, and other assorted musings (11/30/09)

venom_7

Starter
I don't really consider myself important enough to have my own blog, and I'm way too busy these days to try and support that anyway. I figure since I don't have time to put together game threads anymore, I will post all my thoughts on a semi-regular basis, blog style.

SO we begin.

As a Kings fan and much more prevalently, a general NBA fan, I've learned the real intricacies of what makes a knee-jerk reaction a KNEE-JERK reaction. Usually it is a generally irrational statement one makes or some barely justified feeling one has on a day-to-day basis about a certain player, game, coach, etc.

We are all guilty of this, even the most seasoned of fans. I don't mean to insult anybody, but we need to think about the ideas that we come up with during and immediately after games.

IE:
Tyreke just scored 32 points, dished 7 assists, and snatched 8 boards! We need to trade Kevin because we don't need him!

This is a pretty popular one of late, and I think while the idea may be justified in many peoples minds, it does qualify as a knee-jerk reaction. I know our guard rotation is looking pretty slick w/o Kevin or Francisco in the lineup. I know the team is really making progress towards playing as a cohesive unit and playing team ball, but inserting Francisco (a player who is absolutely a perfect compliment for our new team style) is not going to impede that. Inserting Kevin back into the lineup gives the Kings a goldmine of a backcourt. I will say that Kevin's injury is a blessing in disguise as 'Reke established his pro game, but once Tyreke really starts becoming consistent, an Evans-Martin backcourt is just disgusting.

This is the sort of backcourt that plays defense by offense, drawing fouls on opponents star bigs while scoring at the line. Kevin can play defense as we've seen before in his sophomore year, and I think Coach Westphal is doing a great job establishing that if defense isn't being played, then that player won't see time on the court. Kevin doesn't have an ounce of diva in him, and I'm sure he will work very hard to embrace the new team concept.

So the "Trade Kevin" is a knee-jerk reaction.
That being said, he does have deficiencies as a player that fans should not ignore, but he does give us a somewhat legitimate option in close 4th quarters, especially now that his team mates are good enough to give him single coverage. I think he learned a lot last year about being a go-to guy, and while for the most part he has proven he can't really be THE go-to guy, he can be A go-to player in various situations, something we don't have currently. Irregardless of your position about Tyreke's position, he should be able to be that blend-in option as well, the same role he flourished in when Bibby, Artest, and Brad Miller all shared the same ball.

Other thoughts:
Hiring Coach Westphal was a very good decision, even if we go forward to lose every single one of our remaining games (provided we keep playing with this passion). We haven't seen this kind of fire and toughness from a Kings team since 2004 in my opinion, and a large amount of credit is due to Westphal. The team still struggles on offense at times, but they are a good rebounding team as well. A bunch of credit to the assistants, who are themselves doing a fine bit of coaching. Jason Thompson has post moves now!

Things like Omri Casspi hitting his free throws and being absolutely jazzed for making them with the game on the line make you absolutely proud to be a Kings fan, and that doesn't even begin to describe the swelling of pride that I felt.

Westphal's rotations seem a little goofy to me, but they make sense in that you play as determined by your time on the court. If a player welcomes himself into the flow of the game, then he gets the minutes, which, in my opinion, is the way every sport should work. This is a reason why we are seeing guys like Sergio and Donte contribute in their time on the court. The game is what matters, and if players can understand that approach, then we see a better overall performance.

Tyreke Evans IS already something special, which affects me in the way that he is only 11 days older than me. It is very weird. But I will tell you that we actually have two potential superstars on the team. Tyreke is well on his way. I would also include Donté in the picture as well, especially if he can find away to be consistent in using the gifts that he has as a player, and he continues focusing on maturing as a player and accepting the coaching that he has access to.

I am very excited about the growth of this team and the prospects that we have. Goodnight!
 
Dude, anytime you wanna do a game thread when Piksi can't, just PM me. No worry at all. Soon I will pick up 18 units and it will be hard for me as well. Reminds me of last year when we were all crunched and Piksi was focusing on his dissertation. For a while there were no game threads of substance. Eh, shouldn't happen this year.

Good stuff in the blog too. I'm guilty of the trade Kevin knee jerk, for a myriad of reasons.
 
Dude, anytime you wanna do a game thread when Piksi can't, just PM me. No worry at all. Soon I will pick up 18 units and it will be hard for me as well. Reminds me of last year when we were all crunched and Piksi was focusing on his dissertation. For a while there were no game threads of substance. Eh, shouldn't happen this year.

Good stuff in the blog too. I'm guilty of the trade Kevin knee jerk, for a myriad of reasons.

So now my knee is a jerk. Man, what next?:)
 
I know there are quite a few long time Kevin haters who are now feeling quite boisterous but there's always been a group of people who appreciate what Kevin brings but never considered him essential to the rebuild. Kevin presented a classic opportunity to buy low and sell high though I'm afraid we missed the high point in his market value a season or two ago. Still I think it is a bit unfair to call it a knee jerk reaction to suggest that the Kings consider moving him.
 
I know there are quite a few long time Kevin haters who are now feeling quite boisterous but there's always been a group of people who appreciate what Kevin brings but never considered him essential to the rebuild. Kevin presented a classic opportunity to buy low and sell high though I'm afraid we missed the high point in his market value a season or two ago. Still I think it is a bit unfair to call it a knee jerk reaction to suggest that the Kings consider moving him.

Kevin is essential to the rebuild...he just may not be essential to the rebuild as a player for the Kings.

Kevin's tenure is Sacramento has been one of uninterrupted failure. Much of it not his fault of course, but nothing he could arrest either. He's not that level of player to turn things either with his game or his personality -- few are, and the ones that aren't are always expendable for the right return. And now his game seems to directly conflict not only with the young star who is taking that mantle of leadership/face of the franchise, but with everything we've become stylistically in the last month. Tough, scrappy, fiery? These are not the words that define Kevin's game, even when he's going good. Throw in the confusion about tone and leadership which his return could easily trigger -- he is after all the ranking vet and clear leading scorer before we got good, and no, not knee jerk -- analytical. Its like the Suns suddenly adding Shaq a couple of years ago. Oil and water. You can either wait for the water to turn into oil itself, or you can try to trade it away for more oil to add to the oil you already have (or better yet tweak the metaphor and try to add a spark to set your oil aflame).

But whether on the team or not, Kevin is key -- if we trade him, he's our biggest and best trading piece, and represents by far our best chance of landing a major player, hopefully major frontcourt player, to round us out and give us a future.
 
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Kevin is essential to the rebuild...he just may not be essential to the rebuild as a player for the Kings(... snip)

But whether on the team or not, Kevin is key -- if we trade him, he's our biggest and best trading piece, and represents by far our best chance of landing a major player, hopefully major frontcourt player, to round us out and give us a future.

This would be the biggest of my myriad reasons. Can you hear the Kings FO phone ringing in the not-too-distant future? Right around the trade deadline Kevin's value (when packaged with Thomas) will be astronomical.
 
Great read Venom 7. I think you hit the nail on the head. I am one of the people who doesn't want to trade kevin right now, and I think its essential to know what a Tyreke/Martin backcourt can do together.

I know one thing for sure, and that is that Kings fans will never agree on what to do with kevin, not sure they ever have. But love him or hate him, he is a valuable asset.
 
We've seen Kevin succeed in a few different stykes of offense, including an uptempo approch (05-06), a grind-it-out approach (06-07 albeit this wasn't by design, Musselman just wasn't a good coach), and even with other ball dominators on the court (05-08).

I agree that this team is feisty and fun, on face value, Kevin doesn't seem like he fits in. I've seen him adapt to plenty of styles, so I think he will continue to do just fine.

My official knee-jerk stance is that Spence isn't the right fit for what we are trying to do.
 
Kevin is essential to the rebuild...he just may not be essential to the rebuild as a player for the Kings.

Kevin's tenure is Sacramento has been one of uninterrupted failure. Much of it not his fault of course, but nothing he could arrest either. He's not that level of player to turn things either with his game or his personality -- few are, and the ones that aren't are always expendable for the right return. And now his game seems to directly conflict not only with the young star who is taking that mantle of leadership/face of the franchise, but with everything we've become stylistically in the last month. Tough, scrappy, fiery? These are not the words that define Kevin's game, even when he's going good. Throw in the confusion about tone and leadership which his return could easily trigger -- he is after all the ranking vet and clear leading scorer before we got good, and no, not knee jerk -- analytical. Its like the Suns suddenly adding Shaq a couple of years ago. Oil and water. You can either wait for the water to turn into oil itself, or you can try to trade it away for more oil to add to the oil you already have (or better yet tweak the metaphor and try to add a spark to set your oil aflame).

But whether on the team or not, Kevin is key -- if we trade him, he's our biggest and best trading piece, and represents by far our best chance of landing a major player, hopefully major frontcourt player, to round us out and give us a future.

Well said Brick.
I like Martin as a player, but right now he is a spectator. With the way the team has been playing in his absense I would be shopping him for a big man. I would be more inclined to keep Cisco because he is a better fit with the team as it sits on the floor now.:)
 
Fantastic post, I'm glad there are more of us Kings fans that aren't reactionaries jumping the trade kevin bandwagon. I really think Cisco and Martin are humble enough to work with this new offense. Also, don't forget people, Cisco is one of our better all-around players. When he's on he can defend and light it up from the 3.
 
Fantastic post, I'm glad there are more of us Kings fans that aren't reactionaries jumping the trade kevin bandwagon. I really think Cisco and Martin are humble enough to work with this new offense. Also, don't forget people, Cisco is one of our better all-around players. When he's on he can defend and light it up from the 3.

Which is why there is not a big trade Cisco groundswell -- he conceivably fits without causing huge disruption in roles, minutes, or chemistry/style.
 
Fantastic post, I'm glad there are more of us Kings fans that aren't reactionaries jumping the trade kevin bandwagon. I really think Cisco and Martin are humble enough to work with this new offense. Also, don't forget people, Cisco is one of our better all-around players. When he's on he can defend and light it up from the 3.

I think Westphal can be that one coach who can hold Cisco accountable for his dumb on-court decisions and turn him into the player Petrie envisioned when he drafted him. I think in Martin and Cisco, we could potentially have another case of Peja and Hedo. This time, if any trades are made, I hope we keep "Hedo".
 
do the math guys:


Tyreke-Beno-Sergio --- 48 minutes at PG
Martin-Cisco--Green--Evans -- 48 minutes at SG

Noc--Casspi--Green-Cisco -- 48 minutes at SF

just shouldn't add up -- if you give 30 minutes(being nice here) each to Evans/Martin that only leaves 36 to split between Beno/Cisco/Sergio/Greene


I think the odd guy out here should be Nocioni, he brings a lot to the team but the younger guys have proved that they can play w/o much of a drop off and devoloping our youth while saving lots of money is just something that makes too much sense right now
 
I think Westphal can be that one coach who can hold Cisco accountable for his dumb on-court decisions and turn him into the player Petrie envisioned when he drafted him. I think in Martin and Cisco, we could potentially have another case of Peja and Hedo. This time, if any trades are made, I hope we keep "Hedo".

Petrie drafted Cisco because Cisco fell to us...he was projected to go in the mid teen's...
 
I think Westphal can be that one coach who can hold Cisco accountable for his dumb on-court decisions and turn him into the player Petrie envisioned when he drafted him. I think in Martin and Cisco, we could potentially have another case of Peja and Hedo. This time, if any trades are made, I hope we keep "Hedo".

Omri is Hedo, Donte is Wallace, Martin is Peja, and Cisco is, umm......Jim Jackson? ;)