Vegas Summer League-Final Views

[CruzDude]

After seeing games 2 and 3 Live in Las Vegas then watching games 4 and 5 here are my observations summarized from both sets of games. Hawes, Williams are solid and Big JWill will be at training camp. More on him later.

Guards
Pooh Jeder (yeah, I know, its spelled Jeter). At 5-9 he showed consistent PG skills with penetrations, penetrate and dish out and outside scoring. At 5-9 in the west he could get killed. I know of no PG out west who plays much under 6-2. Can he beat out Ronnie Price? Don't think so. But more of a worry for Pooh might be:

Mustafa Shakur, the 6-3 PG with 4 years under Lute Olsen at Arizona and a partial guaranteed contract from the Kings. Shakur's play is quiet, quick and no big flashes yet he was in the top 10 in the entire summer league in both steals (10th) and assists (4th), shot great FT (85%) and did not make many mistakes. He can score when necessary, as 19pts in the horrible game-3.

No other guards play was worth mentioning.

Forwards
Caner-Medley. A big suprise. A legit 6-8 and 240 lb who played all 4 years at Maryland, leading ACC in 3-pt shooting last year. In last 3 VSL games averaged 7.6 reb, 15 pt and 31 minutes as a SF. Very good leaper, good ball handler and dribbler who cut down TO's to nil in last game. A lefty with great range and very comfortable beyond 3-pt line. I think he gets to training camp.

Darryl Watkins. Another partial guaranteed contract for this year and another Big at 6-11 and 260 who banged with the best and shows good range out to 18 ft and good moves down under. A real banger. Played limited minutes averaging less than 12 min/game.

Hawes, I think everyone by now has a handle on. Has most of the offensive moves in and around the basket, shoots equally with both hands, baby hooks, jump hooks and layups, and has sweet jumper out to 18 ft from anywhere. Not much of rebounder for a back-to-the-basket center but can learn footwork and positioning to get consistently up to 6-7 a game. Heck that was all Vlade ever did and Hawes has better moves and is quicker and faster than Vlade ever was for us and DOESN'T flop!! Plays behind Brad and Mikki this year if both of them are kept. Needs full year in NBA then we can see his real value.

Williams, I think is a rebounding-shot blocking PF so he can move around more. Even at 245 he uses his jumping and quickness in lieu of positioning and finesse. He is a banger and hustler for sure, but as Grant Napear said on todays game, Hawes is the best player on the floor (all things considered).

None of the others showed anything and were merely "filler" for the summer league team. Bottom line from my view, Hawes is guaranteed and will get better (and is good now!!), Williams, Watkins and Shakur should make the team by the end of October.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

If Reggie Theus asks Spencer Hawes to protect the paint, it'll probably dry out.

Spencer couldn't defend a cake from Daniel Artest.

The only shot he'll ever block will be a shot at a successful future in the NBA, if he doesn't improve.

The only deflection he'll get will involve a mirror, and the only time he'll make a stop would be in his car.

His defense is so bad, he can probably score on himself.

LOL

 

[BMiller52]

If Reggie Theus asks Spencer Hawes to protect the paint, it'll probably dry out.

Spencer couldn't defend a cake from Daniel Artest.

The only shot he'll ever block will be a shot at a successful future in the NBA, if he doesn't improve.

The only deflection he'll get will involve a mirror, and the only time he'll make a stop would be in his car.

His defense is so bad, he can probably score on himself.

Not saying I totally agree but man the "Spencer couldn't defend a cake from Daniel Artest" line was the best thing I've read all year haha.

 

[fnordius]

I was pleasantly surprised by Caner-Medley. He started out extremely nervous, but got over it in a big way. And he's not deficient at anything, he's an all-purpose bench player. Kind of like picking up a younger, more athletic Luke Walton for ultra-cheap, but without the odiousness of actually having Luke Walton on your team. I hope we can do something with him, even if it's just a year of the DL for now.

 

[vytzka]

Spencer couldn't defend a cake from Daniel Artest.

I don't think that anybody can defend a cake from Daniel Artest.

Hey, I think we just discovered the reason behind Ron's defensive prowess! He had to be a really incredible defender to keep just a little bit of cake for himself

 

[Bricklayer]

Summer league final stats:

NOTES:

-- Cisco was probably the guy most obviously suffering "summer league effect". He was a wild man out there. Very dominant, but clearly playing a game that he can only play against lesser talents.

-- Spenser really is a man of 1000 moves..or at least shots. Its funny, because he was in some ways kind of a big man version of the consciousless gunner. All kinds of talent, but almost too much talent and never met a shot he did not like. He had spins, drop steps, hooks, jumpers, you name it, and quick and smooth. Seemed that no matter where he was on the floor he instantly had a way to get the ball up at the hoop without having to slow it down, set something up, etc. He is also quicker than advertised (for a 7 foot center), and the low assist total there does not really indicate how good a passer/dribbler he is -- again, quick and natural at it, although like the consciousless gunner part seemed to have trouble distinguishing good from bad opportunities. Now, the other stuff: he is apparently pretty weak becuase he was getting pushed around in there by other bigs, and this had a material effect on his shots because he was shooting a lot of fadeaways because he couldn't bang. The rebounding was horrible, and will be the concern. It wasn't the mono. It wasn't whoever his teammate was at Washington or any of the other excuses...Spenser simply has to give a better effort. Raef LaFrentz would batter him on the glass right now, and Justin damn near doubled him up. Hell Nick Caner-Medley outboarded him. So did Wang ZhiZhi (6.0). So did Nikoloz Tskitishvili (6.2). So did all FIVE of the SFs drafted around him in the lottery (Green (5.6), Brewer (9.6), Thornton (6.2), Wright (6.2), Young (6.2)). Spenser's tall enough, quick enough to get there. But just was not. He Brad, Reef and Mikki might be the worst rebounding frontcourt in history if they get all the minutes. Sicne Spenser seems to have some competitor in him, best thing that might happen to him is to have Dwight Howard come out and just destroy him on the glass in his early career. Just embarrass him. Maybe it will light a fire. Now the shotblocking...looks bad in the numbers. Isn't scaring anyone. But I think that against his own man he will be able to be a sporadic deterrent and should be able to do better than 0.6 (whyich seemd a little low to me off of what I was seeing). One would hope. He's long and fairly mobile and willing to challenge (although sometimes flat footed, not sure why. fatigue?).

-- Justin was a beast in there. No better on offense. But if one more Jerry Reynolds or Reggie Theus soft never won a thing in the NBA little pretty perimeter oriented loser talks about how Justin has to develop offensive skills I'm going to slap them around wiht pictures of Bew Wallace and Dennis Rodman and ask them where THEIR rings are. That's not why he's out there, and he might have been our most efficient offensive player just by brutally assaulting the offensive glass and overwhelming people in there. Was very aggressive throughout, looked very confident. Now, its summer league. The competition sucked. Overwhelming Wang Zhizhi and Steve Novak is not overhelmng KG and Shaq. But Justin, even if same ole same ole, showed everything he needed to show there and finished third in the SL in rebounding.

-- Pooh Jeter could be coming back to camp. Had one big game agains the Knicks where he really dominated action, and after a shaky first game was quick and confident with the ball. that doesn't mean he's an NBAer, but he is much more the PG than our Prices and Doubys and whatnot.

-- Mustafa Shakur finished in the top 5 in the SL in assists, and he really looked like a solid PG out there at times. In that he was going pass first, moving to spots on the floor to set people up. Began to trust him to steady the team and guide the offense. They also had him at OG next to Pooh at times, and he used quickness to drive form that position. Could not shoot, could not finish though, and so while I could see the camp invite on the basis of being a real PG with size, if he could only shoot 28% in SL it could be a short stay in camp.

-- Nik Caner-Medley started off the SL horribly, but I think it was the third game where he stepped forward and had a big rebounding game ala a Bonzi or somebody -- not that big but just crashing the glass wiht hustle. And he was strong offensivelyt after that. I do not think he's an NBA level talent -- looks to be one of those guys who's a talewnted player, but basically a poor man's version of better guys who make it into the league. Maybe a poor man;s Harpring or something. But may have earned a shot at camp with the string of solid performances after Cisco had to leave -- Nik was the primary beneficiary I think.

-- Daryl Watkins, despite the modest numbers, really looked solid in there in his minutes in the ways big guys should be solid. He was playing behind Spenser and Justin, who ate almsot all the minutes. But while Daryl was out there he was just...solid. Rebounded, challenged people on defense, and near the end of summer league shoed both a jump hook and the ability to hit turnaround jumpers on offense. Small numbers, but I don't think its impossible he gets a camp invite. Might never be more than a 12th man type -- just not dynamic. but...solid.

-- Douby spent the whole Sl hurt, so impossible to draw many conclusions.

-- Donta Smith hasd a 15 pt game I think in game 2, but at the time I mentioned it was kind of random. Sokme good moves, but I still had no idea what his game looked like or whqat he wanted to do out there. And sure enoguh he spent the rest of the SL looking lost. Looks to maybe be one of those talented guys who's just a notch or two below the NBA and will probably put up good numbers in Europe for his career.

-- You know the little wobble the Earth has in its orbit? That's because Daniel Artest is standing on one side of it.

 

[vytzka]

Hawes made only 43% FTs?

 

[Bricklayer]

Hawes made only 43% FTs?

Hmm...hadn't really noticed that, but it was just on 3-7 shooting, and I would strongly suspect is an aberration given his touch and offensive ability.

More interesting is this:

Total SL FTs:

Pooh -- 26
Justin -- 26
Shakur -- 20
Cisco -- 17
Caner-Medley -- 10
Watkins -- 8
Hawes -- 7
Smith -- 6
Douby -- 2
Lafayette -- 2

And that's with Spenser playing more minutes than any of them, and getting more shot attempts (he was 9th in the SL in minutes actually). I think that is some indication of, not so much his aggression offensively (which was high), as just that phenomenon I was mentoning where it seemed like he had every shot in the book and so just settled for the first shot that he could come up with rather than really forcing the action. The ball hit his hands within 20 feet of the hoop, it was rarely going to stay there long enough for him to get fouled.

 

[vytzka]

-- You know the little wobble the Earth has in its orbit? That's because Daniel Artest is standing on one side of it.

Hey, you shouldn't make fun of DA so much.

There's nothing wrong with being a well rounded player.

 

[cfechter]

Summer league final stats:

NOTES:

-- Cisco was probably the guy most obviously suffering "summer league effect". He was a wild man out there. Very dominant, but clearly playing a game that he can only play against lesser talents.

-- Spenser really is a man of 1000 moves..or at least shots. Its funny, because he was in some ways kind of a big man version of the consciousless gunner. All kinds of talent, but almost too much talent and never met a shot he did not like. He had spins, drop steps, hooks, jumpers, you name it, and quick and smooth. Seemed that no matter where he was on the floor he instantly had a way to get the ball up at the hoop without having to slow it down, set something up, etc. He is also quicker than advertised (for a 7 foot center), and the low assist total there does not really indicate how good a passer/dribbler he is -- again, quick and natural at it, although like the consciousless gunner part seemed to have trouble distinguishing good from bad opportunities. Now, the other stuff: he is apparently pretty weak becuase he was getting pushed around in there by other bigs, and this had a material effect on his shots because he was shooting a lot of fadeaways because he couldn't bang. The rebounding was horrible, and will be the concern. It wasn't the mono. It wasn't whoever his teammate was at Washington or any of the other excuses...Spenser simply has to give a better effort. Raef LaFrentz would batter him on the glass right now, and Justin damn near doubled him up. Hell Nick Caner-Medley outboarded him. So did Wang ZhiZhi (6.0). So did Nikoloz Tskitishvili (6.2). So did all FIVE of the SFs drafted around him in the lottery (Green (5.6), Brewer (9.6), Thornton (6.2), Wright (6.2), Young (6.2)). Spenser's tall enough, quick enough to get there. But just was not. He Brad, Reef and Mikki might be the worst rebounding frontcourt in history if they get all the minutes. Sicne Spenser seems to have some competitor in him, best thing that might happen to him is to have Dwight Howard come out and just destroy him on the glass in his early career. Just embarrass him. Maybe it will light a fire. Now the shotblocking...looks bad in the numbers. Isn't scaring anyone. But I think that against his own man he will be able to be a sporadic deterrent and should be able to do better than 0.6 (whyich seemd a little low to me off of what I was seeing). One would hope. He's long and fairly mobile and willing to challenge (although sometimes flat footed, not sure why. fatigue?).

-- Justin was a beast in there. No better on offense. But if one more Jerry Reynolds or Reggie Theus soft never won a thing in the NBA little pretty perimeter oriented loser talks about how Justin has to develop offensive skills I'm going to slap them around wiht pictures of Bew Wallace and Dennis Rodman and ask them where THEIR rings are. That's not why he's out there, and he might have been our most efficient offensive player just by brutally assaulting the offensive glass and overwhelming people in there. Was very aggressive throughout, looked very confident. Now, its summer league. The competition sucked. Overwhelming Wang Zhizhi and Steve Novak is not overhelmng KG and Shaq. But Justin, even if same ole same ole, showed everything he needed to show there and finished third in the SL in rebounding.

-- Pooh Jeter could be coming back to camp. Had one big game agains the Knicks where he really dominated action, and after a shaky first game was quick and confident with the ball. that doesn't mean he's an NBAer, but he is much more the PG than our Prices and Doubys and whatnot.

-- Mustafa Shakur finished in the top 5 in the SL in assists, and he really looked like a solid PG out there at times. In that he was going pass first, moving to spots on the floor to set people up. Began to trust him to steady the team and guide the offense. They also had him at OG next to Pooh at times, and he used quickness to drive form that position. Could not shoot, could not finish though, and so while I could see the camp invite on the basis of being a real PG with size, if he could only shoot 28% in SL it could be a short stay in camp.

-- Nik Caner-Medley started off the SL horribly, but I think it was the third game where he stepped forward and had a big rebounding game ala a Bonzi or somebody -- not that big but just crashing the glass wiht hustle. And he was strong offensivelyt after that. I do not think he's an NBA level talent -- looks to be one of those guys who's a talewnted player, but basically a poor man's version of better guys who make it into the league. Maybe a poor man;s Harpring or something. But may have earned a shot at camp with the string of solid performances after Cisco had to leave -- Nik was the primary beneficiary I think.

-- Daryl Watkins, despite the modest numbers, really looked solid in there in his minutes in the ways big guys should be solid. He was playing behind Spenser and Justin, who ate almsot all the minutes. But while Daryl was out there he was just...solid. Rebounded, challenged people on defense, and near the end of summer league shoed both a jump hook and the ability to hit turnaround jumpers on offense. Small numbers, but I don't think its impossible he gets a camp invite. Might never be more than a 12th man type -- just not dynamic. but...solid.

-- Douby spent the whole Sl hurt, so impossible to draw many conclusions.

-- Donta Smith hasd a 15 pt game I think in game 2, but at the time I mentioned it was kind of random. Sokme good moves, but I still had no idea what his game looked like or whqat he wanted to do out there. And sure enoguh he spent the rest of the SL looking lost. Looks to maybe be one of those talented guys who's just a notch or two below the NBA and will probably put up good numbers in Europe for his career.

-- You know the little wobble the Earth has in its orbit? That's because Daniel Artest is standing on one side of it.

As always Brick, thanks for the insightful analysis.

It's nice to see that Justin and Spencer performed relatively well in the summer league. I'm looking forward to watching the both of them play this year (hopefully, pretty please - I think a season of KT, Miller, SAR and Mikki would have me suicidal)

 

[fnordius]

Hawes made only 43% FTs?

Like Justin, he had a much better FT% in college, so I'm sure it's just nerves. Unlike Justin, I'm sure you won't hear the KHTK crowd make a big deal about it, even if takes him a while to work through.

 

[Bricklayer]

Hey, you shouldn't make fun of DA so much.

There's nothing wrong with being a well rounded player.

*groan*

 

[Bricklayer]

As always Brick, thanks for the insightful analysis.

It's nice to see that Justin and Spencer performed relatively well in the summer league. I'm looking forward to watching the both of them play this year (hopefully, pretty please - I think a season of KT, Miller, SAR and Mikki would have me suicidal)

Thx cfechter, but remember Cruzdude is the guy who actually gets to attend + see the games in person every year -- I'm just working off the live feeds like everybody else.

 

[bajaden]

Nic Caner Medley

I have to disagree with you a little bit on this guy. He impressed me with his ability to always be around the ball. He's 6'8" and 245 lbs acording to the combine stats. Thats not all that small. I think he has a chance to make it in the NBA. If not with the Kings, then some other team.

I agree with you on Hawes. He did look a little tired out there. Probably the first time in his life he's played that much and practiced as much as he did. Good for him though. As far as his defense and rebounding, I think both will improve. He is after all, only 19 years old, and how many players come out of college and play good defense their first year.

I don't know how many people remember, but Kobe wasn't the greatest player in the world his first year.

 

[cfechter]

Thx cfechter, but remember Cruzdude is the guy who actually gets to attend + see the games in person every year -- I'm just working off the live feeds like everybody else.

You're right - cruzdude, hats off to you as well.

 

[vytzka]

Like Justin, he had a much better FT% in college, so I'm sure it's just nerves. Unlike Justin, I'm sure you won't hear the KHTK crowd make a big deal about it, even if takes him a while to work through.

Never mind, if he only had 7 FTAs then this statistic doesn't matter. I thought he had more and was surprised to see such a low percentage for a guy who's supposed to be a very good jump shooter (and at least part of that ability normally transfers into FT shooting barring extremely shaky nerves).

 

[Merdiesel]

If Reggie Theus asks Spencer Hawes to protect the paint, it'll probably dry out.

Spencer couldn't defend a cake from Daniel Artest.

The only shot he'll ever block will be a shot at a successful future in the NBA, if he doesn't improve.

The only deflection he'll get will involve a mirror, and the only time he'll make a stop would be in his car.

His defense is so bad, he can probably score on himself.

...couldn't be as bad as your jokes... damn.

He's an OFFENSIVE player!...

If you pair him next to a defensive big it's all good.

 

[vytzka]

I don't know how many people remember, but Kobe wasn't the greatest player in the world his first year.

Or his any year, really.

 

[SacTownKid]

It's hard to judge Hawes on the glass. We hung with our opponents every game in the rebounding department so rebounding wasn't a problem. I noticed maybe one or two times Spencer have a rebound taken away from him. We see this from Brad about 3-4 times a game at least. There were also a good 2 rebounds a game Spencer let his teammate get, one of the nobrainder board variety with no other guys around.

He does seem to have problems grabbing the ball back in once and awhile but I could see him being a pretty decent rebounder in time.

And for the blocking numbers. I don't know if he will be a great shotblocker but I like what he showed as far as challenging players at the basket. And shotblocking numbers are tracked horribly in the summer league BTW. The stats would show Justin having 1 or 2 blocks some games when there were clearly more.