[UTA/SAS] Western Conference Finals discussion
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I'm watching, and I have been quite entertained. And the beauty of being a fan is that, since I'm not David Stern, I don't have to give a **** about whether or not John Q. Public is watching... ratings are entirely meaningless, unless you work in television, or it's actually your job to market the product, and I ain't in that line of work.
sloter
Starter
Hard enough for Flagrant 2 and 2 game suspension.
And your definition of a hard foul is ... ?
it was a hell of a game, actually. what is with all this "boring game" crap, i am not quite sure. basketball is not all about passing the ball through the hoop; there is much more to it and that "much more" makes the game more likeable. the spurs-jazz series is great because of interesting match-ups, great coaches, intense atmosphere.
what is with the love fest between you two? can it all be related to webber? i do not really recall you having this much disagreement over almost everything. it brings back the memories of garliguy, mikeb, brick, glenn, slim et al. going at it.
No it wasn't.
Maybe the Flagrant 2 was warranted, but the two game suspension was simply to appease the critics (which didn't work) because of the Suns' suspensions.
Like Horry said in the article, there have been much harder fouls this postseason that didn't result in suspensions.
It looked serious because Nash wound up going into the scorers' table, but it wasn't that hard of a foul. He didn't try to hurt him, low-bridge him, clothesline him... He didn't grab him and throw him down. It was a hard foul that didn't need to be quite as hard as it was, but it wasn't as hard as people are making it out to be. The only reason everyone is so upset about it is because the final result cost Amare and Boris - and the Suns - Game 5.
sloter
Starter
Exactly.
The first quarter and the second half of that game were extremely good.
He got one game for the foul.
One game for the altercation with Bell. If there was nothing with Bell, he would have been out 1 game.
Funny, how others took shots and its not such a big deal, but Horry does it and all heck breaks loose. But then Suns players follow their coach who's a great example. And it was like a 3-4 point game. It wasn't out of the question that it was over.
But then what do you care. You still don't think Amare and Diaw deserve any responsibility for their actions for a rule that has existed for around 10 years.
Jerryaki
Starter
the bench rule is stupid, especially when players immediately return to the bench.
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One would certainly expect a Spurs fan to stick up for his player, but are you really trying to say what Horry did was okay?
Nico
G-League
Slim Citrus, twocent and Superman : I get it you're the elite of basketball and we are just bandwagon fans unable to understand any beauty of basketball.
That's just plain stupid
Oh yeah it's so much fun to see 2defensive team(one which controlled the game from start to end), so many highlights !
Wo a beautyfull defensive rotation that's what i love to see !
You don't understand the game more than we do !
Stop acting like offensives games are for the bandwagon fans just like we are and the elite like you are prefer a 65pts game.
Please tell me watching the suns was boring for you and the only teams you appreciate are spurs and pistons ?
What a game yesterday ! a thing a beauty for sure ! seeing utah completely mastered by the spurs. They had absolutely no chance to win this game. It was just like who's going to score ? duncan ? no i prefer parker. ok duncan in post up then he gives it to a cutting gino. And on the other side hum maybe kirilenko could post up his man ? :s
My favorite player was the defensive player of the year and what i really love to see him do is not taking 25shot but locking down a Tmac or a Lebron. I used to watch euroleague, i'm a defensive minded point guard so i know what defense is. I know defense less game are boring but please don't do to much about a game like G1 utah@SA and what's more : don't act like if we don't like this kind of game we don't know what BBall is.
That's just plain stupid
Oh yeah it's so much fun to see 2defensive team(one which controlled the game from start to end), so many highlights !
Wo a beautyfull defensive rotation that's what i love to see !
You don't understand the game more than we do !
Stop acting like offensives games are for the bandwagon fans just like we are and the elite like you are prefer a 65pts game.
Please tell me watching the suns was boring for you and the only teams you appreciate are spurs and pistons ?
What a game yesterday ! a thing a beauty for sure ! seeing utah completely mastered by the spurs. They had absolutely no chance to win this game. It was just like who's going to score ? duncan ? no i prefer parker. ok duncan in post up then he gives it to a cutting gino. And on the other side hum maybe kirilenko could post up his man ? :s
My favorite player was the defensive player of the year and what i really love to see him do is not taking 25shot but locking down a Tmac or a Lebron. I used to watch euroleague, i'm a defensive minded point guard so i know what defense is. I know defense less game are boring but please don't do to much about a game like G1 utah@SA and what's more : don't act like if we don't like this kind of game we don't know what BBall is.
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Don't get mad at me just because you have poor taste.
So, to simplify it, I think it was okay, as long as you can take the consequences that follow with it as a fan, as a player, a reputation, an image. (whoops, wrote a lot) Obviously, i'd feel differently if he was trying to take off his head.
Well, because it stirred up all this complaining and gives Suns a reason for an excuse(although I'm sure they would have had another one in place of these suspension one-if it never existed).
It was a hard playoff foul. These existed in the past much more. I wish he hadn't done it. I don't think its fully right, but i don't think its fully wrong. I do know Nash added some act to that. I think that incident is a good example of Phoenix's lack of mental maturity.
The one thing I'm wondering is why Horry's hit seems like he killed someone even though Baron laid out Fisher in that game 4, JRich had a nice flagrant 2, the Sasha hit(in the above article). So there's other stuff going on.
So i know you want me to answer it. So in some ways, yes its wrong and i don't approve but in someways i do. I do know the Spurs were frustrated in that game with some of the ref calls late in the game. And Horry wanted to send a message. Although I was kind of mad since the game was still close. And of course now the Suns will always use this as an exuse, much like last year with "wait till Amare comes back."
Do I celebrate the move? Would I if i could the situation let him do it if it meant Amare and Diaw were going to be stupid, and create all this controversy? No...
I was mad he got into it with Bell, because he would have been back in one game for the bump.
Ultimately i find it sad that the Spurs get blamed somehow like they forced Amare and Diaw to break the rule. I even hear the Parker-Nash incident being brought up as Parker caused it. Suns training staff probably should have taken him in the back and gave him stitches. Heck, if Pop(he actually is quoted as saying he wanted him to keep playing) had it his way, he would have let Nash bleed all over the place so he could play.
I can say this for sure. Utah will not moan and groan and whine about the physicality of the Spurs. They won't make excuses and Sloan already demonstrated the huge dichtomy that exists between Pop and Sloan compared to D'Antoni
Oh and yeah, of course I'm bias, but everyone has some subjective bias coming from somewhere.
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sloter
Starter
I'm not saying that that foul is anything more than it is: one of the dirtiest fouls in these playoffs as Nash was going full speed and got knocked into the scorer's table.
However, Horry is the last person who should be talking about it and trying to make it seem like it was an ordinary play. His description of "it wasn't that bad and it was in the heat of playoff action" sounds to me like Amare's description of "going to check into the game at the scorer's table".
However, Horry is the last person who should be talking about it and trying to make it seem like it was an ordinary play. His description of "it wasn't that bad and it was in the heat of playoff action" sounds to me like Amare's description of "going to check into the game at the scorer's table".
Evenstar
Starter
the 2nd game was because he elbowed raja bell after he was walking away from nash. had he not done that, it probably only would have been one.
Did I miss something?
I appreciate basketball even when the score is low. I don't have to see a bunch of three pointers and dunks in order to be entertained. Not saying that you do, but I'd rather watch the Spurs play the Jazz than the Suns play the Warriors. No doubt about it. I do appreciate a good defensive rotation. I like the little fundamental things that great championship teams do to set themselves apart from other contenders. And I do get bored watching the Suns play sometimes.
I just have different preferences than you do. Than most people, actually. Which is why I don't understand your little rant. Most posters on this board prefer seeing offensive juggernauts as opposed to seeing the Spurs vs. Pistons in the Finals, and have been very vocal about how "boring" the rest of the playoffs are going to be for them. I happen to disagree, and am vocal about it. What's the difference?
Lastly, I never said anyone was a bandwagon fan who doesn't know anything about basketball because they said they don't like Pistons vs. Spurs type of games. I may have called someone a bandwagon fan who doesn't know anything about basketball, but it was likely for a different reason. I really don't know why you're so offended.
I think the foul looked a lot worse than it was because Nash is little compared to Horry. But Nash was the one running at full speed, not Horry. It's not like Horry gave him a Madden Hit Stick or anything, and that's what you're trying to make it out to be. He gave him a hip check, Nash fell into the scorers' table, put a little bit of Hollywood into the fall, and it looked like Horry was trying to hurt him.
It was a hard foul, and it was more than just a "heat of playoff action" foul, but it wasn't as bad as you're making it seem.
I think you might be well-served by reading the Tips for Posting here at Kingsfans.com Keep your comments about the posts and don't call out the posters.
Thanks ever so...
Thank you. That's a pretty good response...
My main complaint all along has been it was over-the-top and Horry shouldn't have done it. This isn't the good ol' days and those kinds of hits just aren't the way the game goes.
I couldn't possibly care less if the Suns use this as some kind of excuse. It's not about the Suns. To me, it's about the game I've loved all my life. Nash could have been seriously hurt; hitting the scorer's table like that could have had dire consequences. That was my main complaint.
Thanks again for the in-depth response.
You're welcome. When i have time these days, i still like to write.
I do have some thought that Nash acted a little. He definitely looked like he was hit by a linebacker or something. Now I'm not saying I don't doubt he got hit, but it looked more dramatic than it probably was. I doubt it was any harder than what Baron Davis did to Fisher for instance. For all the grief Spurs get about dirty and flopping and stuff, Suns aren't exactly free of the flopping techniques either.
But i say that knowing I'm a Spurs fan so take that for whatever its worth to you.
4cwebb
Starter
You're welcome. When i have time these days, i still like to write.
I do have some thought that Nash acted a little. He definitely looked like he was hit by a linebacker or something. Now I'm not saying I don't doubt he got hit, but it looked more dramatic than it probably was. I doubt it was any harder than what Baron Davis did to Fisher for instance. For all the grief Spurs get about dirty and flopping and stuff, Suns aren't exactly free of the flopping techniques either.
But i say that knowing I'm a Spurs fan so take that for whatever its worth to you.
I would definitely agree that Nash flailed his arms a bit in an attempt to sell a flagrant foul call, and in this day and age I can't say that I blame him --- if he gets the call he gets 2 shots and the ball, basically ensuring that his team would win the game.
But it had the unintended consequence of getting his teammates all concerned for his well being...oh well.
Wow. Who made you the arbiter of taste?
Spurs and Jazz - boring. Sorry, but I don't happen to find slowly walking the ball up the floor, watching what seems like hours of backing someone up in the post, and tons of free throws interesting.
I don't think I have poor taste. I just have better things to spend my time on.
Did I miss something?
I appreciate basketball even when the score is low. I don't have to see a bunch of three pointers and dunks in order to be entertained. Not saying that you do, but I'd rather watch the Spurs play the Jazz than the Suns play the Warriors. No doubt about it. I do appreciate a good defensive rotation. I like the little fundamental things that great championship teams do to set themselves apart from other contenders. And I do get bored watching the Suns play sometimes.
I just have different preferences than you do. Than most people, actually. Which is why I don't understand your little rant. Most posters on this board prefer seeing offensive juggernauts as opposed to seeing the Spurs vs. Pistons in the Finals, and have been very vocal about how "boring" the rest of the playoffs are going to be for them. I happen to disagree, and am vocal about it. What's the difference?
Lastly, I never said anyone was a bandwagon fan who doesn't know anything about basketball because they said they don't like Pistons vs. Spurs type of games. I may have called someone a bandwagon fan who doesn't know anything about basketball, but it was likely for a different reason. I really don't know why you're so offended.
Thanks, people have different interests when watching the game. I'm glad you see that one is not superior to the other, just different interests.
Maybe you could remind Mr. Slim of the same rule. Thanks!
I did.
I think Slim's response was pretty tame compared to what he was responding to. Also said a bit tongue-in-cheek, I thought.
But this is what I don't understand, or rather, what's curious to me. Of all the championship teams of the current basketball era, how many of them weren't able to walk the ball up the court, dump it into a post player and run an efficient offense from the inside out?
I think you're exaggerating in your description, but those are the things that championship teams excel at in the playoffs. Running set offense, slowing the ball down, putting a premium on defense, working the post, hitting free throws, etc. I mean, if the Kings had been more efficient from the free throw line and had been able to rely more on their defense, they probably would have at least one, maybe two championships. Those are the things that the Lakers and Spurs were always so good at, and that's the reason they have six of the last eight titles. Miami was able to do those things effectively last season as well, and the Pistons did the same in 2004, with a couple of different wrinkles in their offensive gameplan.
Some people call it boring; others, like myself, call it championship basketball. The Cavs/Nets series was sloppy and boring. Both teams threw up shot after shot and couldn't score. The fourth quarter of Game 5, they combined to shoot something like 4-32, or something ridiculous. There's a huge difference between bad offense and deliberate offense. The Spurs/Pistons Finals a couple years ago was deliberate offense between two teams that executed well in the half-court and could rely on their defense to get stops. That's what I call championship basketball. There's a reason those two teams are poised to meet again for the title.
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