Tyreke's lack of progression

Status
Not open for further replies.
#1
Two years ago this guy was supposed to be the resurrection of this franchise. Only rookie since Lebron to go 20/5/5, and I remember the discussion/comparison was him and Derrick Rose.. Why has he not only not progressed, but gotten worse over this span? His progression or lack of it has really been harmful to the franchise
 
#2
he is what he is, his bball iq is average at best, his court vision is average also. he will get better but not by much. his jumpshot hasn't improved since he was a rookie, which either shows it will never be fixed or he doesn't have that motor that players like kobe does.
 
#4
I think he was paired with the wrong coach. It was hard to see it his rookie year but it's clearly evident now. Westpaul gave him too much rope. I don't think he really felt the pressure to really hone his jumper. He needs a consistent J.
 
#5
ya im tired of not knowing wich tyreake evans were gona get in the game the good strong agressive take it to the basket evans or the weenie soft go to the basket and thow up wild lay up always sayin and 1...i wonder what kinda player we could get if we were to trade him anybody??
 
#6
Teams has adjusted their defense to prevent him from getting to the basket. Make him shoot the J, and he'll eventually go back to his typical 6 for 16 type games. Every now and then he'll get something like 9 for 14, but he has yet to had a few consistent games in a row.
 
#7
Natt needs to find much better sets to maximize the strength of his star players.
Not jumping into the Lin wagon, but D'Antoni's system is so efficiently designed to get the best out of the PG spot.

Tyreke can't do much if his coach keeps telling him to do plays that other teams already know how to defend.
On a good note, Natt's staff has already been successful in slowly getting the best out of Cousins and a lot of glimpse of utilizing Evans properly.

I'm not giving up on Reke yet. Because this is only his first year of having a real coach.
 
#8
Natt needs to find much better sets to maximize the strength of his star players.
Not jumping into the Lin wagon, but D'Antoni's system is so efficiently designed to get the best out of the PG spot.

Tyreke can't do much if his coach keeps telling him to do plays that other teams already know how to defend.
On a good note, Natt's staff has already been successful in slowly getting the best out of Cousins and a lot of glimpse of utilizing Evans properly.

I'm not giving up on Reke yet. Because this is only his first year of having a real coach.
you mean Smart?
 
#9
jesus freaking christ.

I'm tired of all these Tyreke haters when they have no statistical evidence to stand on. Tyreke has been NOTICEABLY better under Smart plus he only has a 21 yr old big man and a streaky scorer as the only contributors on this team. Basketball is a team sport and Tyreke and the Kings will continue to struggle until we put an actual team on the floor
 
#10
oh, not to mention he's 22 years old and should be a senior in college right now. So let's not act like his play now (which is damn good) is anywhere close to where his ceiling is
 
#13
* A coach doesn't have much input on what exactly a player does when he has the ball in his hands and is driving into a set defense of 3 guys clogging the lane.
Decisions like that are all on Tyreke.

* Teammates can't make Tyreke stay mentally focused on the court during plays. Tyreke zoning out repeatedly during games is not on Westphal, or even Salmons. It's not a professional basketball coach's responsibility to tell Tyreke to keep on his man - that's bball 101.

* A coach can't make a player magically have a good jumpshot. Tyreke's had years and years of custom coaching, and his shot still is so horrible, he thinks he's better off driving into a horde of defenders and hoping something good happens rather than take a wide-open 18 footer. He hasn't fixed the basic flaws in his form, even after 2+ years of professional help.

* A coach can't force Tyreke to add elements to his game (left hand, pull-up jumper, bankshot, etc) or make him become a reliable professional. That's all on Tyreke.

* Tyreke being 22 in no way excuses his repeated blunderings on fastbreaks. He's shown his personal instinct to not pass the ball in the open court and take it all the way himself. That's his hard-wiring.

Saying these flaws are on a coach, or because his teammatess aren't good enough, or because he's young is dodging personal responsibility.

I asked an incredibly damning question before, and not one person had an answer :
Has Tyreke gotten better with even ONE aspect of his game since he came into the league?

Since everyone's estimation of Tyreke is predicated on him getting better, and if he hasn't gotten better in 2+ years, when do we start asking the question : If Tyreke stays at this level, can the Kings realistically become a competitive NBA team and get past the 1st round of the playoffs?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#14
Two years ago this guy was supposed to be the resurrection of this franchise. Only rookie since Lebron to go 20/5/5, and I remember the discussion/comparison was him and Derrick Rose.. Why has he not only not progressed, but gotten worse over this span? His progression or lack of it has really been harmful to the franchise
Why has he not progressed? Well if we are talking about progressing from his rookie year, then his second year was largely ruined by plantar fasciatis. His third year started after Christmas during a scrambled season after a long lockout, his coach, who may not have been helping him much anyway was fired two weeks into the season, and a new guy took over in th midst of a crazy compressed schedule allowing almost no practice time, and in our case heavily weighted on the front end toward elite teams and road games. Oh, and the front office got rid of several of our best support guys and nobody off the bench can shoot or score.

And through all that he has been improving this season under Smart. Your basic premise is a bit flawed. Tyreke has looked noticeably better in the last month at being able to run a team. His standstill jumper form looks noticeably better. Jumper off the dribble still needs to be corrected, but Smart is working with him on that. His defense has been there almost every night, almost. And with Cousins around we don't need him to be DRose.
 
#15
He needs a PG to play along side of him to orchestrate the offense when the defence is set specifically. Like someone posted above "he is what he is" Great in the wide open court mediocre at best at actually playing PG.
 
#16
Basketball is a TEAM game. Their is no TEAM around Tyreke and DeMarcus and we won't win until we find a supporting cast around them that works. People bring up Rubio-Lin-Rose-Westbrook all and the common denominator is all those guys have strong supporting casts around them to help them succeed. Give Tyreke and DeMarcus any of the Heat-OKC-Bulls, hell even the Wolves or Knicks and we'd be in playoff contention.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#18
Sometimes I wish I'd follow my initial hunch and not even read some threads. This is just another 30 seconds of my life I'll never get back...
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#19
Sometimes I wish I'd follow my initial hunch and not even read some threads. This is just another 30 seconds of my life I'll never get back...
Tis the curse of being someone responsible enough to be assigned the powerful role of Moderator.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#20
Can these "let's trash Tyreke," "let's trash Thornton," and let's trash anyone else who is associated with the Kings be merged into one thread? I am personally really fatigued by having to search all the old threads to make sure I didn't miss any gem of insight. It would be best if they were merged into one person as subject matter.
 
#22
There are 2 aspects of Tyreke's game that we should focus on - playmaking and scoring. Let me first talk about playmaking. By playmaking, I'm referring to running a proper offense that in one way or another creates high% shots for other guys. Now, I think it should first be noted that Tyreke is not a natural playmaker, and I don't think anyone has ever claimed that he is. What supporters of Tyreke at PG have said is that ultimately he should be able to run an offense at an average level, and his ability to score should allow him to create high% shots for other guys because of the attention that he commands, and these two things together with Cousins and a good supporting cast should be able to get us deep into the playoffs. Having said that, it should also be noted that playmaking isn't something you can really work on in the offseason, and Tyreke has essentially only been receiving proper instruction on this end after Smart took over. With that in mind, I feel that Tyreke has progressed at an acceptable level since Smart took over in terms of his playmaking and running the offense. It's far from a finished product, but in less than half a season it's an acceptable level of progress.

The real concern I think, is his ability to score. It is no secret that teams dare Tyreke to beat them from the outside. It is also no secret that to this point Tyreke has yet to face that challenge successfully. His outside shooting I feel, is the real area where he simply hasn't progressed. The funny thing is, I don't think lack of effort is the reason behind it. Most of us watched Tyreke's first few games this season and last - last season's summer league and this season against the Lakers - and thought (at least I did) "Oooo watch out league, Tyreke's got a jumpshot". The problem is that improved form and balance somehow has not carried on in throughout both this season and last season. I don't know whether it's because of conditioning or habit, but Tyreke reverts to fading away after the first few games in the season. Some people find that his form is a lot better now when he's spot shooting, but I look at the results, and the results show that Tyreke Evans still cannot shoot from the perimeter to save his life.

As a result, teams can just pack the paint and limit Evans' effectiveness. If he had that jumpshot down, we would be winning a lot more games, not because of any improvement in playmaking but by the sheer fact that he would be very difficult for teams to guard. Which would result in the Kobe syndrome - teams can either choose to let Tyreke get his points and ensure the rest of the team doesn't get involved, or give him a lot of attention, which will result in easy shots and little defensive pressure for the rest of the team. Either way, we would be better off. Without the jumpshot on the other hand, Tyreke cannot get his points without taking a lot of shots, and he also can't set guys up as much because he isn't drawing a lot of double teams. It doesn't help that our wings can't hit a 3 to save their life either whenever Tyreke does draw in the defense and kick the ball out. Which is why we need some REAL 3 POINT SHOOTERS!! Why can't we get a Dorell Wright, or a Daequan Cook, or a friggin Matt Bonner!! Why do we have John Salmons and a Garcia that can't shoot???

For a player to seemingly improve from a previous year, he has to add enough to his game to counter the additional pressure that defenses give him. The league knows Tyreke now, and they know how to guard him. Until he gets his jumpshot down, he's going to be a one-trick pony for us on offense(a pretty damn good one, but a one-trick pony nonetheless).

There are many other things you can talk about, like running a pick and roll, being more focused throughout the game etc. Sadly, Tyreke and Cousins don't exactly have reps as being the hardest working guys on the team, unlike your other superstars like Wade, Kobe etc. But there's no point complaining about such things - we can only hope that sooner rather than later it'll click for them. Running the pick and roll also requires the bigs to get better at executing it as well.

We can complain and compare our "stars" as much as we want with other, established stars. Sometimes though, it may simply be that Derrick Rose is a better player than Tyreke. That doesn't mean Tyreke isn't good though. Hey, Kobe is a better player than Paul Pierce, but the Celts still beat the Lakers in the finals didn't they? In fact, last year's finals would be a great example for this. Wade and LBJ are/were easily regarded as better players than Dirk, yet the Mavs won! You don't always need to have the best players, you need a few superstars and a good supporting cast and system. I think that even if Tyreke is only 80% as good as Derrick Rose or Durant, he'll still be good enough for us to go deep in the playoffs. Cousins on the other hand, has the potential to be a top 2 or 3 center in the league.

I understand that being our franchise players, DMC and Tyreke are expected to do a lot. Sometimes though, we have to take a step back and see that they already are, and it's the rest of the team that isn't doing ****.
 
#23
No doubt this will be labeled a troll thread by the Tyreke excuse makers. I wonder how long it will take before those devoted to defending him realize that the garden variety responses like he's young, he's had poor coaching, etc. have passed their expiration date? I guess it's just too painful for these folks to deal with the reality that Tyreke is a disappointment so far. He's ineffective when teams pack the paint, he still can't shoot worth a darn, he still make a lot of poor decisions, and he's still maddeningly inconsistent.
 
#24
jesus freaking christ.

I'm tired of all these Tyreke haters when they have no statistical evidence to stand on. Tyreke has been NOTICEABLY better under Smart plus he only has a 21 yr old big man and a streaky scorer as the only contributors on this team. Basketball is a team sport and Tyreke and the Kings will continue to struggle until we put an actual team on the floor
Except that...there IS statistical evidence for us to stand on. Loads of it, in fact. How about the fact that he's worse in every single statistical category (except free throw%) compared to his rookie year?
 
Last edited:
#25
It is frustrating and disappointing. Admittedly he has been better lately but he still has the same problems and still regresses quickly when things don't go his way. He has a one dimensional game. When teams allow him to play his game, he's great. But when they don't, he becomes almost a liability out there. He either needs to just give up on shooting like Rondo did and just pass or forget about the PG thing all together and just be a slashing SG (that can't shoot) or an undersized SF.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#26
Has it been reported that Tyreke gets to games 2 hours early to work on his jump shot? That he does the same at practices? That Alex English, one of the best jump shooters in NBA history, is there working out with him? If Tyreke is doing that now, and if he works out like a Kobe-maniac in the offseason with a legit shooting coach (maybe English, if possible), then I'll be satisfied he's doing everything he can in order to get better offensively. If not, then his stunted growth is all on him. I don't want the impossible from Tyreke. I just want him to be the best he can possibly be.
 
Last edited:
#27
Has it been reported that Tyreke gets to games 2 hours early to work on his jump shot? That he does the same at practices? That Alex English, one of the best jump shooters in NBA history, is there working out with him? If Tyreke is doing that now, and if he works out like a Kobe-maniac in the offseason with a legit shooting coach (maybe English, if possible), then I'll be satisfied he's doing everything he can in order to get better offensively. If not, then his stunted growth is all on him. I don't want the impossible from Tyreke. I just want him to be the best he can possibly be.
Yes, hopefully with one of the team coaches monitoring him during the seaosn and in the offseason he'll be able to get some consistency in his jumpshot. I doubt he'll ever have Kobe's drive - very very few players do - but as long as he works hard and takes it upon himself to be the best he can be (like you said) we'll have a decent team (assuming DMC does the same, and we for ****ing sake add some actual pieces that can help)
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#28
, and we for ****ing sake add some actual pieces that can help)
This is a bigger issue than people realize. Our players ARE getting open looks because of Tyreke driving into the paint. Unfortunately, we aren't hitting the open looks. Because we don't hit them, there's no reason to guard them. It's a vicious circle.
 
#29
His defense has been there almost every night, almost. And with Cousins around we don't need him to be DRose.
His overall defense is still horrible. On the Landry Fields dunk from Lin Grant and Jerry talked how Thornton needed to be up on Lin to stop the pass. Yet, the failed to mention Evans was caught again looking at the ball and Fields had an open lane all the way to the hoop. Want to score on the Kings it's easy. Whoever Evans is guarding put out on the wing or in the corner. Dribble the ball along the 3 point line and wait for the cutter as Evans just stands there looking at the ball.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#30
No doubt this will be labeled a troll thread by the Tyreke excuse makers. I wonder how long it will take before those devoted to defending him realize that the garden variety responses like he's young, he's had poor coaching, etc. have passed their expiration date? I guess it's just too painful for these folks to deal with the reality that Tyreke is a disappointment so far. He's ineffective when teams pack the paint, he still can't shoot worth a darn, he still make a lot of poor decisions, and he's still maddeningly inconsistent.
Oh we'll probably realize that about the time when he's NOT young and actually HAS had good coaching for an extended period. Somehow beig a senior in college with 6 weeks under a new coach doesn't quite qualify.

Reke has improved notably under Smart, and the structure is there for more improvement still. The form on the jumper is better, now it needs reps. The understanding of how to run an offense, and being given an offense to run, is better, now it needs reps. The inconsitency is still head scratching, but that's a common thing during youth too.

People who are impatient are just foolish. Probably lousy cooks too. Sometimes you just have to let things simmer/marinade until they smooth out. Hopping up and down throwing tantrums because you can't just microwave it and get results does nothing but make somebody look like an amateur who shouldn't be in the kitchen in the first place.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.