Tyreke The Double Team And Success

[Telemachus]

Who do you think desired Rubio out of nostalgia for flashiness? I'm tired of people taking shots at those who wanted Rubio, cheapening their arguments as if they're all just fiending for some highlight videos or something. I don't think it's anymore fair to say that Evans will turn the franchise around than Rubio will.

While a quite a few of Rubio's fans got to see him play a lot (like you from what I have read), I think the majority of them are going strictly on highlights, analysts, and other stuff read on the internet. And I think in their minds he has been built up to be a much better player than he could possibly live up to. That is not fair to Rubio or Evens. I think that is where many get upset.

Now to be fair, this is very likely true of many of those that are happy with Evens as well. Probably not to the same degree because it was much easier to watch Memphis than any game in Europe, but still true nonetheless. Hopefully, we can watch both players in the NBA the next couple years and see who turns out better. Who knows? Maybe they will both turn in all-star calibre players. It is more than possible.

 

[swisshh]

Rubio = Youtube Highlights
Evans = Trust in Petrie NO MATTER WHAT
Kings Fans = Chickens sans heads

good times

 

[fnordius]

Im so done talking about Rubio as if he would have turned this whole franchise around. He would have been exciting but i think most people are upset because they wanted to go back to that flashy team we had before. Just another case of living in the past IMHO. That team died a long time ago folks...move on.

I believe that this is the opposite of correct.

What we had before was the Princeton, with Vlade and CWebb combining for around 9 assists a game. That meant we didn't really need a pass-first PG, so we unloaded JWill, got Bibby, and Bibby's assists per 48 and per game both dropped a lot from what he'd done at Vancouver. The Team was wonderful, but we'll never again have 2 bigs who can pass like that, etc., so I have forgotten about it and moved on. I want a defensive big who never shoots 3s, and a pass-first PG now because I realize that the Princeton will never take us very far without those sort of bigs, and there are simply none of them to be had.

Yet here we have Coachie telling our bigs to shoot more 3s, and we draft a combo guard, apparently because we aren't expecting him to have to make many assists anyway.

You can play the Princeton like we did before, which was with excellent talent and the rarest sort of bigs, and play it for a championship. Or you can play it like college teams usually do, which is what we're doing now. You get less than stellar players, and get them to overperform with a lot of ball movement and solid team play. It's fun to watch when done well, and it's cheap. I'm sure that the team will be more fun to watch this year, and will win more games. But I don't think it's going to take us much farther than that.

It's a good plan for the Maloofs, who can get more butts into the seats without paying for any expensive players. And it's fine for the fans in the short term. In the long term, I think it's a huge mistake.

It was great when we had two very unique talents on our roster, but those days are long gone by. We need to move into the present. That starts with getting a big who clogs up the lane, and a PG who distributes the ball. Until we have those, my expectations for the team will stay low.

 

[midtowner]

Interesting take on Ricky Rubio - Draft Express

I thought this was interesting: Pooh Jeter's (of King's summer league fame) take on Rubio. They played in the same league last year.BTW - I totally bought into the Rubio hype, but was fine with Evans being drafted. After watching Evan's handle in those clips, I feel even better about it. This team needs a bull, and I think that we got one.

by: Pooh JeterJune 30, 2009

...

NBA DRAFT 09

Spanish players in the ACB that got drafted:

Ricky Rubio- The number one question I get from people is HOW GOOD IS RICKY RUBIO? My answer to the question is he is good, but I think if he continues to improve, he will be real good as he gets older. I seen him play a few times this season and I played against him once because he was hurt the first game. I saw how crafty and smart he is in this game of basketball. I think his IQ of the game is what makes him good because he knows where his teammates are at all times. When we finally played against each other, I had 18 points and 4 assists and he had 16 points and 8 assists. He led the league in steals and assists this season. A lot of 18 years don't know the game like he does because he's been a pro since he was 14 years old.

Sergio Llull- Sergio is a very explosive and quick point guard. I didn't really see him score, but he brought energy off the bench for Real Madrid, especially on the defensive end.

Victor Claver- To be honest, I think Victor Claver is the best pro right now out of Rubio and Sergio. I know people may think I’m crazy for that comment, but hey, it’s my opinion. Victor Claver is like 6’9; he can score and is very athletic.

 

[fxhsurjono]

Victor Claver- To be honest, I think Victor Claver is the best pro right now out of Rubio and Sergio. I know people may think I’m crazy for that comment, but hey, it’s my opinion. Victor Claver is like 6’9; he can score and is very athletic.

very sad when claver got taken at 22, i wanted him at 23

 

[ElRey]

Rubio = Youtube Highlights
Evans = Trust in Petrie NO MATTER WHAT
Not Rubio Fans = Chickens sans heads

good times

Let me correct that for you above

 

[VF21]

This is beginning to be reminiscent of the idiocy that permeated this board by a few rabid Webber v. rabid Peja fans. We don't care if you argue with each other until the end of time over Rubio, but keep it about the topic at hand and please do not let it decay into name-calling and insults about each other.

This is just a pre-emptive warning. Take it for whatever you think it's worth...

 

[Gary]

Play a zone and you won't have to double Evans.

 

[ElRey]

Play a zone and you won't have to double Evans.

I thought you're not allowed to play zone defense in the NBA

 

[Section 101]

I thought you're not allowed to play zone defense in the NBA

You can play some zone now.

 

[ElRey]

You can play some zone now.

Thanks, you're right... here's an interesting read on zone defense in NBA. Seems like teams are still reluctant to use it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/sports/basketball/28zone.html

 

[Telemachus]

I thought you're not allowed to play zone defense in the NBA

The Kings have too many good outside shooters to play a zone against them. If you change your defense to take away one player while opening it up for the other 4, then that one player must be really good.

 

[fnordius]

The Kings have too many good outside shooters to play a zone against them.

I wouldn't say that. One of the most consistent teams for playing the Zone is Detroit, who swept us last year, and are 5-3 against us over the last 4 years. In our last 2 games against them, our 3-point shooting was an abysmal .250 (7-28).

It's especially useful against superstar-dominated teams, but is still effective against other sorts of teams, if it's done right. It's only weak if you play it badly.

 

[Kingster]

Play a zone and you won't have to double Evans.

And Martin, Noc, Thompson and Hawes will all thank him that he forced the other team to play the zone.

 

[DocHolliday]

Who says being an all-star is the thing that matters? Tyreke can still be a great point guard without being an all star. Also who knows if both of those PGs will be in the west their whole careers?

I commented on being an all star because the orginal poster brought that up. And, I doubt those PG's are getting moved any time soon since this is a PG driven league currently, and those are 3 of the best currently.

 

[Telemachus]

I wouldn't say that. One of the most consistent teams for playing the Zone is Detroit, who swept us last year, and are 5-3 against us over the last 4 years. In our last 2 games against them, our 3-point shooting was an abysmal .250 (7-28).

It's especially useful against superstar-dominated teams, but is still effective against other sorts of teams, if it's done right. It's only weak if you play it badly.

I would point out that Detroit is one of the few teams that plays a very effective zone defense IMO. Most teams still play primarily a man-to-man defense and when they switched to zone, they weren't very effective against us last season.

I would also point out that when the Kings played team offense, NO zone defense could stop them. Most of the time their offense broke down agianst a team like Detroit because Salmons or Garcia spent too much time dribbling and not enough time passing. Get the ball to the high post (either Hawes or JT) and spread the floor and you will be hard-pressed to stop the Kings with a zone.

 

[fnordius]

I would point out that Detroit is one of the few teams that plays a very effective zone defense IMO. Most teams still play primarily a man-to-man defense and when they switched to zone, they weren't very effective against us last season.

We won 17 games and were in 25th place for FG percentage. It couldn't have been THAT ineffective.

I agree with your point that the teams who play Zone all the time tend to do it well, and that those who play it infrequently, not so much. But some teams have good enough guards that they won't be considering the zone against us anyway, it's not like our rookie strikes terror into the hearts of the Wades and Bryants of the NBA. The teams that will have a hard time against us are the ones with mediocre guards who also can't play a Zone very well. We've long had at least one guard who could score 30+ points on a good night, so if you forget who has tepid guards + weak Zone, you can look back over last year's games and see the teams that Salmons and/or Martin lit up.

 

[Gary]

And Martin, Noc, Thompson and Hawes will all thank him that he forced the other team to play the zone.

Live and die by the jumper. It's not always the answer to shoot jump shots. Martin does fine, now all Evans has to do is learn to become a pass first PG.

 

[Kingster]

Live and die by the jumper. It's not always the answer to shoot jump shots. Martin does fine, now all Evans has to do is learn to become a pass first PG.

You don't have to have long range jumpers for the zone. You just need to know how to pass against it. In addition, the zone has a great weakness in defensive rebounding because players are in charge of defending areas, not men. Personally, I think the zone is a pathetic excuse for a defense in 95% of the situations that you see in the NBA. It teaches laziness and passivity and you'll never be able to go far in the playoffs with it. I hope the Kings play very little of it next year so they can really concentrate on getting better with man to man D.

 

[fnordius]

Personally, I think the zone is a pathetic excuse for a defense in 95% of the situations that you see in the NBA. It teaches laziness and passivity and you'll never be able to go far in the playoffs with it.

Unless you're a team like Detroit, in which case it wins you a championship.

But most of the Zones I watched last year WERE pretty lousy, because I was watching Kings games. The Kings can't play the Zone for the same reason that Detroit can - if you have good defenders, they can learn to play either kind of defense well. If you have disinterested and/or untalented defenders, the Zone will probably be even worse than man-to-man, because players will be less obviously accountable. Some opponent will go for 45 points, and nobody will get pulled for playing no D, because, hey, it's the Zone.

The Zone also works best if you have scary bigs, and we meticulously avoid those.

So it's probably a bad choice for the current Kings roster to try, until we have better defensive players. As for how it'll work against us, well, we have a preseason coming up in just over 3 months, we will see.

 

[Telemachus]

We won 17 games and were in 25th place for FG percentage. It couldn't have been THAT ineffective.

I agree with your point that the teams who play Zone all the time tend to do it well, and that those who play it infrequently, not so much. But some teams have good enough guards that they won't be considering the zone against us anyway, it's not like our rookie strikes terror into the hearts of the Wades and Bryants of the NBA. The teams that will have a hard time against us are the ones with mediocre guards who also can't play a Zone very well. We've long had at least one guard who could score 30+ points on a good night, so if you forget who has tepid guards + weak Zone, you can look back over last year's games and see the teams that Salmons and/or Martin lit up.

Yes, we onlly won 17 games last year, but most teams didn't play zone against us last year. And when they did, they didn't stick with it very long because it wasn't effective. The reason that Detroit plays it so well is that they don't play a traditional zone defense. They usually play a man-to-man zone where each player still plays in their own area, but still stay on whatever man is in that area. It takes a lot of practice and discipline to play that defense effectively.

 

[Kingster]

Unless you're a team like Detroit, in which case it wins you a championship.

But most of the Zones I watched last year WERE pretty lousy, because I was watching Kings games. The Kings can't play the Zone for the same reason that Detroit can - if you have good defenders, they can learn to play either kind of defense well. If you have disinterested and/or untalented defenders, the Zone will probably be even worse than man-to-man, because players will be less obviously accountable. Some opponent will go for 45 points, and nobody will get pulled for playing no D, because, hey, it's the Zone.

The Zone also works best if you have scary bigs, and we meticulously avoid those.

So it's probably a bad choice for the current Kings roster to try, until we have better defensive players. As for how it'll work against us, well, we have a preseason coming up in just over 3 months, we will see.

I don't remember the championship Detroit teams playing a zone. I do recall them playing very good man to man D though.

 

[Merdiesel]

With a scoring threat like Havoc at the point this year I fully expect a lot more of this from my boy Martin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6LZKESD89c

 

[Nighthawk1]

With a scoring threat like Havoc at the point this year I fully expect a lot more of this from my boy Martin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6LZKESD89c

I think that is the Martin we want to see ALL the time. Taking it to the rim because no one is fast enough to stop him.

 

[DocHolliday]

Apparently Tyreke tweaked his ankle today. Nothing serious, he said he'd be ok.

The Sacramento Kings, where knee and ankle injuries happen.

 

[AriesMar27]

I think that is the Martin we want to see ALL the time. Taking it to the rim because no one is fast enough to stop him.

wouldnt that be nice? we would be in good shape if martin played like that the entire game. maybe not dunking on every play but aggressive...