[Game] T'wolves @ Kings 3/18/2012

[Bricklayer]

Yeah. Sounds like someone's a little bitter that Kahn wound up picking Wes Johnson.

Oh, there is a lot of that that goes aroudn in player assessments. About ego as much as actually looking at the player himself.

 

[Hoovtrain]

heh

Tonight, the Twolves announcers were commenting about how much smoother the Kings look with IT running the show and that Tyreke may be talented but it might be best if he didn't dominate the ball.

Yup, and so did the G Man..multiple times. Exact words from the G Mans mouth "we all know Tyreke can be a bit of a ball stopper."

 

[Section 101]

It's pretty obvious both are passing much more this weekend than this time last week. So either they had a change of heart, which I'd love and hope continues, or when Reke is out there they're afraid of not getting enough shots, leading to less ball movement.

Or it could be they don't think the ball comes back if they give it up. One reason the Vlade/Webb team was good was the unselfishness. if you gave the ball up you would get it back if in a better position.

Ask yourself this, how many times do you see Evans catch the ball and imediately move it to the next person? Thornton has the same problem. The bigger issue is Thornton and Evans on the floor at the same time. Salmons was guilty of this earlier in the season, but has been better recently when running the offense.

 

[Bricklayer]

Or it could be they don't think the ball comes back if they give it up. One reason the Vlade/Webb team was good was the unselfishness. if you gave the ball up you would get it back if in a better position.

Ask yourself this, how many times do you see Evans catch the ball and imediately move it to the next person? Thornton has the same problem. The bigger issue is Thornton and Evans on the floor at the same time. Salmons was guilty of this earlier in the season, but has been better recently when running the offense.

Do you think that Shane Battier or Joel Anthony EVER dip their heads hen the ball doesn't come back to them/ Do you think Mario Chalemers EVER says screw that Wade guy, this is my shot!

Of course not. To the degree that is a problem on this team it is a problem of the supporting personnel, or the players who SHOULD be supporting personnel but don't act like it. You don't see Cisco chucking up random shots no matter who he is on the floor with at this point in his career. Reason being he is an experienced roleplayer and knows the gig. Most of our supporting personnel on the other hand have either been used to getting the ball too much themselves over their careers, or are too young and still dreaming of the days when THEY were the man.

 

[Section 101]

Do you think that Shane Battier or Joel Anthony EVER dip their heads hen the ball doesn't come back to them/ Do you think Mario Chalemers EVER says screw that Wade guy, this is my shot!

Of course not. To the degree that is a problem on this team it is a problem of the supporting personnel, or the players who SHOULD be supporting personnel but don't act like it. You don't see Cisco chucking up random shots no matter who he is on the floor with at this point in his career. Reason being he is an experienced roleplayer and knows the gig. Most of our supporting personnel on the other hand have either been used to getting the ball too much themselves over their careers, or are too young and still dreaming of the days when THEY were the man.

Battier has always been unselfish. Funny you mention Wade and not LBJ who has been critizied to death for giving the ball up.

Oh, just maybe the person you think is not support personnel will end up there.

Lastly, Cisco is one of the biggest chuckers of them all. Soon as he hits one shot the next one is the second the leather hits his hands.

 

[jpsls]

The ball movement does seem to stagnant when Evans is in the game though...

 

[Spok22]

I know you mean it in jest.

On a serious note, shouldn't we be focused on developing Cousins for long term success? I believe in inside-out basketball for real success, and my main gripe continues to be a focus on gunning from the guards even though it sounds like I'm tilting at windmills after these wins. It disguises the bigger issues at play, and I think the development of Cousins, and to a lesser extent, Evans, is hampered by this style.

What exactly do you suggest we do then? Hand off the ball to evans/cousins at halfcourt and let them iso? Westphaul pretty much already did that last year and we all know how that turned out. This is a team game. If certain players are only out there to get their own it turns into selfish one on one basketball and everyone is afraid that they wont get their touches so they jack up shots which leads to ugly stagnant offense. IMHO The way were playing now is the best environment to develop reke and cousins in because they can learn how much and when they need to assert themselves without messing up the flow of the team.

 

[Bricklayer]

What exactly do you suggest we do then? Hand off the ball to evans/cousins at halfcourt and let them iso? Westphaul pretty much already did that last year and we all know how that turned out. This is a team game. If certain players are only out there to get their own it turns into selfish one on one basketball and everyone is afraid that they wont get their touches so they jack up shots which leads to ugly stagnant offense. IMHO The way were playing now is the best environment to develop reke and cousins in because they can learn how much and when they need to assert themselves without messing up the flow of the team.

You're not actually teaching them how to play winning basketball however. Or at least not winning playoff basketball which is where both those guys will get one day. To do that, you need to teach halfcourt execution. Not mad scrambles. And the thing is, the big ADVANTAGE you have with a Cousins or a Reke is precisely that they are guys who can create in the halfcourt. Lots of guys can play inthe open court. Its just flat ort easier in space, with the defense scrambling etc. Only the special ones can create anyway agaisnt a set defense. If you've got them, its a waste to junk up the game as if you don't. And it delays their progress in preparing for the playoff wars which you hope will come.

 

[ppine]

There is always a lot of discussion about Evans because so far he is not a good fit for this team. Making him an SG is still problematic, because his shooting is not reliable. He is a great talent, and he is very determined to get better. I would hate to trade him or MT. The team may be benefitting from having Evans on the bench for a few games because they don't rely on him and keep the ball moving. Don't you think Evans is at home tonight wondering what just happened in the last 2 games without him? It may be the humbling type experience he needs to wake up and be more team oriented.

 

[Bricklayer]

It may be the humbling type experience he needs to wake up and be more team oriented.

Getting tired of this. Reke has been by FAR the most team oreinted guy on the whole squad this year. I mean EASILY. Not only consistently the most willing passer (until the last few weeks let's qualify). But also the guy who has taken being constantly yanked around, told to do this, do that, switch positions, without a peep. I would like to see you try that with a Russel Westbrook. Or a DeMarcus Cousins or Marcus Thornton for that matter.

 

[Tetsujin]

There is always a lot of discussion about Evans because so far he is not a good fit for this team. Making him an SG is still problematic, because his shooting is not reliable. He is a great talent, and he is very determined to get better. I would hate to trade him or MT. The team may be benefitting from having Evans on the bench for a few games because they don't rely on him and keep the ball moving. Don't you think Evans is at home tonight wondering what just happened in the last 2 games without him? It may be the humbling type experience he needs to wake up and be more team oriented.

Not to be incredibly crass, but we had a game (Dallas) that pretty much went exactly like the last two with Reke playing so to say that this is going to provide some "epiphany" is just plain stupid. Now if you want to talk about the entire team waking up after getting spanked by a depleted tanking Warrrior's team and a Pistons team who we were beating by 15 in the second quarter, then may be you're getting somewhere.

 

[kennadog]

Getting tired of this. Reke has been by FAR the most team oreinted guy on the whole squad this year. I mean EASILY. Not only consistently the most willing passer (until the last few weeks let's qualify). But also the guy who has taken being constantly yanked around, told to do this, do that, switch positions, without a peep. I would like to see you try that with a Russel Westbrook. Or a DeMarcus Cousins or Marcus Thornton for that matter.

Evans is very quiet and introverted. I've been amazed that he has always tried to do whatever was asked of him WITHOUT complaint, hissy fits, drama or causing any other distractions to the team. He played hurt all last year, which was probably a mistake, and if he cared about his stats, he certainly would not have done that.

He's had two totally different coaches and has been jerked around from position to position and is now playing SF, a position he's never played, and not a word or expression of rebellion or unhappiness. He just quietly goes about doing his job and doing it pretty damn well under the circumstances.

Yes, its fair to critique his game, but I think he gets far more blame than he deserves and less credit than he deserves. Same way so many Kings fans talked about Webber back in the day.

 

[kingsnation]

Yes, its fair to critique his game, but I think he gets far more blame than he deserves and less credit than he deserves. Same way so many Kings fans talked about Webber back in the day.

Yes, well said and very true.

 

[Section 101]

Two games is not statistically significant enough for...



... to be a "valid" or accurate criticism. Two whole games? Really?

Except its not just 2 games. The same thing happened at the end of last year when he went down too. That's called a pattern.

Evans came back and fit in for a few games then reverted back.

 

[kingsnation]

Nope. The passing and sharing the ball we've seen the last 2 games has been far above and beyond anything we've seen all year. Assists and team-oriented basketball aren't necessarily the same thing

Has it ever crossed your mind or anyone else's that possibly, just possibly our team has looked better these last 2 games because Smart is being forced to play and utilize a traditional NBA lineup? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? Instead of playing guys out of position. I'd love for Reke to get the opportunity to play at the 1 or 2 with a real frontcourt at his disposal.

 

[Glenn]

Has it ever crossed your mind or anyone else's that possibly, just possibly our team has looked better these last 2 games because Smart is being forced to play and utilize a traditional NBA lineup? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? Instead of playing guys out of position. I'd love for Reke to get the opportunity to play at the 1 or 2 with a real frontcourt at his disposal.

Yes it crossed my mind.

In fact, in two games there can be multiple reasons for a change in performance. Unfortunately, there is only one that fits the subject of the last two months.

 

[The_Jamal]

Has it ever crossed your mind or anyone else's that possibly, just possibly our team has looked better these last 2 games because Smart is being forced to play and utilize a traditional NBA lineup? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? Instead of playing guys out of position. I'd love for Reke to get the opportunity to play at the 1 or 2 with a real frontcourt at his disposal.

It sure has crossed my mind big guy. Except for the fact that 1. Salmons isn't a real SF and 2. Smart still used his same rotations of putting Donte and Outlaw at the PF with Chuck at C. Nothing has changed with the rotations unless you consider Salmons a real SF

 

[kingsnation]

It sure has crossed my mind big guy. Except for the fact that 1. Salmons isn't a real SF and 2. Smart still used his same rotations of putting Donte and Outlaw at the PF with Chuck at C. Nothing has changed with the rotations unless you consider Salmons a real SF

Cool thanks for the update, big guy. Anyways thanks for finally responding to one of my posts since there are 2 or 3 directed towards you that you ignored/couldn't respond to in the other thread.

 

[kingsnation]

It sure has crossed my mind big guy. Except for the fact that 1. Salmons isn't a real SF and 2. Smart still used his same rotations of putting Donte and Outlaw at the PF with Chuck at C. Nothing has changed with the rotations unless you consider Salmons a real SF

Also, there have been times when Smart has played Cisco and Salmons in the frontcourt w/ Reke at the 3. So Chuck at C and Donte at PF is a major upgrade. FTR, Salmons can and has consistently played the 3 in his career. In Philly, Chicago and yes even here in Sac, he played SF. Quite a bit actually.